The Energon Pub

MisterNewUzer wrote:

Neko wrote:When you post comments about people work, please use constructive cirtizism to avoid any unneeded altercations.

anybody who doesn't use constructive criticism should be thrown into a "high security prison" where they hopefully won't escape from (which Bay movie?)

The Rock.

Too easy.

Just ignore tramp, almost everyone else does. He has a tendancy to feel that he is the only individual with a correct opinion.

Lookin good keep em comin.

qwailo wrote:

Sonray wrote:

qwailo wrote:

Thenedain wrote:Hey Qwailo, what paints ( brand and colors ) did you use on this badboy?

Lol Bad Boys, Bad Boys. We should start a game to see how many Bay films we can sneek into conversation.

I wonder what this toy would look like in "the scariest enviroment imaginable" (guess the bay flick)

Armageddon!

Oh and thanks for the feedback Mulla.

No worries mate

Congrats on a great bash. I am in the process of making a similar one (though I have many WIPs so it will be a while til it's done). I like the shoulder posts and wonder how they look in vehicle mode.

Also, I too agree that Tramp's ""accuracy"" issues are getting annoying. I've been nice abut it when he criticized my bashes, but when he hijacks a thread like and argues for page after page, that is getting ridiculous. Kitbashing is a way for people to make their own personal representations of characters. Each bash is unique and that is what makes them great. This is not a model kit and it' not paint by numbers. It's your bash and it only needs to make you happy, not someone else.

Wow, six pages of arguing; I'm impresed.

Whiner-tron wrote:Wow, six pages of arguing; I'm impresed.

LOL i didn't think the first thing i posted would cause such a stir.

Anyway im sorry i haven't posted my Alt-mode pics yet. I don't get on with cameras, they are my arch nemesis. Im going on holiday tomorrow im afraid but when i get back i'll have Alt-mode pics and the preview of the Magnus challlenge that was set. Oh and the first of my movie repaints too.

lol I know what you mean.

Me and cameras don't get on either

Nice work, lad. I'm really looking forward to seeing the alt mode, if only to find out what happens with the shoulders - the white parts sticking up work well in this mode, but I can see they might look off in vehicle mode, and I'm curious to see what you've done with that.

I also plan to take up the Tramp challenge of doing a well-balanced trailer (even though I haven't been able to get the fig yet). I've got some half-done designs on the block which work so far, but I need to work out some stability issues. When I've got some more time and (more importantly) money I may well get some raw materials and try to build it.

Ramrider wrote:I also plan to take up the Tramp challenge of doing a well-balanced trailer (even though I haven't been able to get the fig yet). I've got some half-done designs on the block which work so far, but I need to work out some stability issues. When I've got some more time and (more importantly) money I may well get some raw materials and try to build it.

Yay, another person accepts my challenge!!! Has anybody figured out which size was more in scale with Classics UM? Minicons, LoC, or Scout class?

ack, double post...

I dunno... I'd say Scout class/Basics would probably be more in scale technically (except for bikes, where you'd need to make up a whole new size class), but there aren't any in the Classics range.

I'm working on Tramp's principle of using the figs from the same line, so I've taken my measurements from Classics deluxe figs. Theoretically (as the design stands), it should be able to hold any two Deluxes on each level. So far, it should be just as functional (good articulation, fully transformable, holding cars in trailer mode), while still having decent proportions, which is where Tramp's fell down.
I won't be able to start yet, as I just don't have the materials at the mo, but I'd certainly like to.

The design I came up with initially is in Tramp's trailer thread over at Transtopia.
This link will take you to the last page in the thread, where the designs are (as well as the comments received so far). Scroll down about half way, they're easy enough to find.

Ramrider wrote:I dunno... I'd say Scout class/Basics would probably be more in scale technically (except for bikes, where you'd need to make up a whole new size class), but there aren't any in the Classics range.

I'm working on Tramp's principle of using the figs from the same line, so I've taken my measurements from Classics deluxe figs. Theoretically (as the design stands), it should be able to hold any two Deluxes on each level. So far, it should be just as functional (good articulation, fully transformable, holding cars in trailer mode), while still having decent proportions, which is where Tramp's fell down.
I won't be able to start yet, as I just don't have the materials at the mo, but I'd certainly like to.

The design I came up with initially is in Tramp's trailer thread over at Transtopia.
This link will take you to the last page in the thread, where the designs are (as well as the comments received so far). Scroll down about half way, they're easy enough to find.

How do you go about designing such a thing i mean...how the hell do you know what to measure or what size it has to be or how its gonna fit together and transform and stuff? And how the heck do you make such a thing stay together what with all the movement it does?

Personally, in this case, it's largely theoretical at the moment; I don't know if I'll be able to do this, but I'm fairly confident that I can.

What you need to measure is fairly simple. when you're sketching your basic designs, the measurements you need to focus on are inside dimensions - or rather the external dimensions of the things that need to fit inside. For instance, if you know (as I did) that you want to be able to fit two cars on each deck of the trailer, measure the biggest cars you're likely to want to put in it - height, width and length - and add a couple of mil to each to allow movement on and off the trailer. That'll tell you the minimum length and width that you need to make the decks, and how much vertical space you need between them to avoid roof scrapage.
You know you want the leg armour to be separate, and to fit round Magnus' inner robot legs - measure the legs to find out the size of the gap you'll need to fit it round.

Structural integrity's really a case of trial, error and experience. If you look at existing TFs with similar mechanisms and structures to those you want to incorporate, you can see how they've done what they've done, and therefore how you can add strength to your structures.

How it transforms? Mostly a lot of sketching and an eye for 3D shapes, which just takes some honing. Although personally, that can only take me so far... eventually there's too much detail to think about when I'm mentally transforming the fig, so that's when I know to turn to my CAD software (which is what the design on that page was made with). Using that, I can take accurate measurements and move parts about in space; this allows me to 'physically' transform the model, make sure proportions work properly in both modes, and ensure that nothing gets in the way of moving parts.

Ramrider wrote:The design I came up with initially is in Tramp's trailer thread over at Transtopia.
This link will take you to the last page in the thread, where the designs are (as well as the comments received so far). Scroll down about half way, they're easy enough to find.

I'm liking the idea so far. And don't let Tramp talk you into making an exact copy of his because his is supposedly "more accurate". Make it work however you want.

A few constructive suggestions that you can take or leave:

One of the things that I didn't like about Tramp's Ultra Magnus was that the whte shoulder pillars extend so high. In the toon they barely reach the top of his head. So if you can find a way to keep them short, that will mak it look better. Infact, the way your CAD drawing has the folding panel on the forearm instead of the forearm being stretched all the way to the back of the trailer may keep the pillars short already.

A possible ay to gain some height would be to leave the white magnus' feet in the folded down truck position and building a small folding platform for support in robot mode. You coul also use the truck's trailer hitch and the wheel wells as natural points for the leg armor to attach to. Here's a few pictures to show what I mean. It would add more hieght than if the feet are down.

Massdestruction wrote:

Ramrider wrote:The design I came up with initially is in Tramp's trailer thread over at Transtopia.
This link will take you to the last page in the thread, where the designs are (as well as the comments received so far). Scroll down about half way, they're easy enough to find.

I'm liking the idea so far. And don't let Tramp talk you into making an exact copy of his because his is supposedly "more accurate". Make it work however you want.

A few constructive suggestions that you can take or leave:

One of the things that I didn't like about Tramp's Ultra Magnus was that the whte shoulder pillars extend so high. In the toon they barely reach the top of his head. So if you can find a way to keep them short, that will mak it look better. Infact, the way your CAD drawing has the folding panel on the forearm instead of the forearm being stretched all the way to the back of the trailer may keep the pillars short already.

A possible ay to gain some height would be to leave the white magnus' feet in the folded down truck position and building a small folding platform for support in robot mode. You coul also use the truck's trailer hitch and the wheel wells as natural points for the leg armor to attach to. Here's a few pictures to show what I mean. It would add more hieght than if the feet are down.

This is all so interesting! Ya'll need to post an in-depth "how to" when you complete these projects so the rest of us can have a go. I would especially LOVE to do this as i find all this stuff really fascinating but really out of my league at the moment. I find taking away knowledge from reading especially hard as well,(dyslexia or something, probably just dumbassery) so looking at a step by step guide would do wonders. If any of you guys could take some pics as you are going along and explain how to build one of these trailers i, as wlel as many others would be really grateful!

Your sketch and info is plausible. This may work!

Thought about materials? Thickness?

It may be a good idea to drill small holes in the side of each arm on both sides. Well, have you got Tit UM? You know how the arms join together in alt mode to act as a single piece? I mean that; but do that on the opposite sides of the lower arms as well, and have them connect to the inside of the leg armour/ back of the trailer, to hold the arm ramps in place.

It might be a good idea to work with the Omega Prime idea for the leg armour. You would just need to vaccuum mould the soles of UM's feet, and use that as a clasp to hold is feet in place. And that other thing they do with Omega Prime's feet; the hitches that holds UM's rear doors closed that plud into Prime's legs to hold it in place.

The vaccuum forming thing may not be pheasable. I'm not entirley sure how thick vaccuum formed plastic can be, or if there's a better way of doing it.

But anyway, I've made a contribution, and it's something to toy with isn't it?

Tramp does actually make a good point over there though. The arms should be attached to the struts straight.

Massdestruction wrote:I'm liking the idea so far. And don't let Tramp talk you into making an exact copy of his because his is supposedly "more accurate".

Trust me, I won't be. Tramp's good, very good, no doubt about it, but as I said to him, the point of my doing this in the first place is to try to correct the things I didn't like about his - and most of things he's told me "need" to be done would put me right back at making his, which is exactly what I don't want.
I take my own advice regarding criticism - take what you need from it. Listen to everything, and think about it. But don't change things that have been criticised if you disagree with it. If someone makes a point you agree with, do something about it; otherwise 'file' it (that means chuck it).

Massdestruction wrote:A few constructive suggestions that you can take or leave:

One of the things that I didn't like about Tramp's Ultra Magnus was that the whte shoulder pillars extend so high. In the toon they barely reach the top of his head. So if you can find a way to keep them short, that will mak it look better. Infact, the way your CAD drawing has the folding panel on the forearm instead of the forearm being stretched all the way to the back of the trailer may keep the pillars short already.

It does indeed. My model's on my other computer, but IIRC, the white pillars extend up about 3-4cm, which I think works out shorter (relatively) even than G1's. I think it's 4cm; the bit that sticks up basically is the part that fills the blue shoulder mass in vehicle mode.

Massdestruction wrote:A possible ay to gain some height would be to leave the white magnus' feet in the folded down truck position and building a small folding platform for support in robot mode. You coul also use the truck's trailer hitch and the wheel wells as natural points for the leg armor to attach to. Here's a few pictures to show what I mean. It would add more hieght than if the feet are down.

Interesting idea. I don't think I'll be taking all that, but you have given me a potential idea.
I don't think I'll be pointing the toes. The reason being that the current model adds about 3.5cm to the bottom of his feet, which I think works about right. Most of that comes from the rear wheel section, the last centimetre and a half or so from the folded lower deck. Pointing the toes would, I think, make the lower legs too long, (particularly given the length of the thighs) unless I found somewhere else to fold the deck.
There is the possibility, I suppose, of folding the deck up in front of the robot legs (behind the ramps), and fixing a mounting to the bottom (in vehicle mode) that attaches to the trailer hitch. I'd probably have to make the decks thinner to compensate, though, otherwise there'd just be too much mass in front of the legs.

The Master Blaster wrote:Your sketch and info is plausible. This may work!

Thought about materials? Thickness?

Materials, most likely styrene; thickness... well, that'll vary depending on the components.

The Master Blaster wrote:It may be a good idea to drill small holes in the side of each arm on both sides. Well, have you got Tit UM? You know how the arms join together in alt mode to act as a single piece? I mean that; but do that on the opposite sides of the lower arms as well, and have them connect to the inside of the leg armour/ back of the trailer, to hold the arm ramps in place.

I don't have Tit UM, but I've seen the galleries. The trouble with connecting the arms together in trailer mode is that I'd then have to make the arms wider, otherwise the deck becomes too narrow. The current spacing is perfect to take any Deluxe car. However, that doesn't preclude adding a couple of detail panels that extend out just far enough to connect... I may have previously considered that, but I can't remember. Odds are, however, that that will be some part of the legs connecting to the top deck, if only to prop it up like on most other Magnuses.

The Master Blaster wrote:It might be a good idea to work with the Omega Prime idea for the leg armour. You would just need to vaccuum mould the soles of UM's feet, and use that as a clasp to hold is feet in place. And that other thing they do with Omega Prime's feet; the hitches that holds UM's rear doors closed that plud into Prime's legs to hold it in place.

The vaccuum forming thing may not be pheasable. I'm not entirley sure how thick vaccuum formed plastic can be, or if there's a better way of doing it.

Indeed the vacuum moulding isn't feasible, but that's mostly because I don't have access to the facilities. If I need to, though, I'm perfectly capable of constructing my own footprint. Actually the Omega Prime method is the most likely way of attaching the legs, and was basically what I was heading toward in the first place.

The Master Blaster wrote:But anyway, I've made a contribution, and it's something to toy with isn't it?

Indeed it is. The fact is, even if you make what is in itself seemingly the most ridiculous suggestion, you never know what ideas it might spark for the right person.

The Master Blaster wrote:Tramp does actually make a good point over there though. The arms should be attached to the struts straight.

That one I think I'd pretty much conceded to him. I just haven't reconfigured the model to suit yet...

Ramrider wrote:

Massdestruction wrote:I'm liking the idea so far. And don't let Tramp talk you into making an exact copy of his because his is supposedly "more accurate".

Trust me, I won't be. Tramp's good, very good, no doubt about it, but as I said to him, the point of my doing this in the first place is to try to correct the things I didn't like about his - and most of things he's told me "need" to be done would put me right back at making his, which is exactly what I don't want.
I take my own advice regarding criticism - take what you need from it. Listen to everything, and think about it. But don't change things that have been criticised if you disagree with it. If someone makes a point you agree with, do something about it; otherwise 'file' it (that means chuck it).

Massdestruction wrote:A few constructive suggestions that you can take or leave:

One of the things that I didn't like about Tramp's Ultra Magnus was that the whte shoulder pillars extend so high. In the toon they barely reach the top of his head. So if you can find a way to keep them short, that will mak it look better. Infact, the way your CAD drawing has the folding panel on the forearm instead of the forearm being stretched all the way to the back of the trailer may keep the pillars short already.

It does indeed. My model's on my other computer, but IIRC, the white pillars extend up about 3-4cm, which I think works out shorter (relatively) even than G1's. I think it's 4cm; the bit that sticks up basically is the part that fills the blue shoulder mass in vehicle mode.

One thing about the shoulders on mine is that they transform just like the G1 toy, and those shoulder "pillars" weren't really any shorter than the ones i built, they're just thicker around. The length of the pillars is determined by the length of the upper deck rails in vehicle mode, which ultimately is determined by the length of the trailer. IF you make the "pillars" too short, then the arms themselves will be too long because it means that less of the rail slides upwards throuhg the shoulder and more remains below it. A number of people tried to come up with ideas for shortening the "pillars" and none were mechanically feasable. Also, remember that the cartoon shoulder "pillars" are stylized and shrink down from the size they actually would be. Mechanically, they should be considerably longer.

Yeah. Except I'm not trying to come up with some fancy-schmancy way to shorten the pillars. I'm just reducing the need to make them so long in the first place... And what they do in the 'toon is immaterial to me. Even 100% G1 accuracy ('toon or toy) isn't important. My priorities are function and aesthetics. I want it to look good, and still do everything I want it to. I like the shoulder extensions, but I don't like them that long. So if they don't need to be, they won't.

If you can figure out a way to allow them to be shorter without comprimising the length and structural integrity of the upper deck rails, great. I couldn't, so I went with what I had.

Great repaint.

I have yet to see a truly good UM trailer that actually works as armor. Everyone I've seen is too bulky and makes UM tower over Prime, which is unacceptable.

Works like Tramp's are definately impressive, but still, a long way from what I would want to see.

I actually prefer the repainted version as it would look the nicest in a display. Who the hell plays with their TFs anyway? Ideally I would want one really nice trailer to display in alt, and one nice repaint like this one for bot. Combining the 2 and still having the bot mode look good appears to be beyond any fan's skills from what I see. Though Hasbro's Tit. version is definately a huge step in the right direction.

BTW, fanatic pedantics should always be ignored. Responding just feeds their insanity.

That is a damn nice repaint. Well done. Wish I had skills to kitbash, but the best I can manage is repaints and adding some bits from a KITT model to an Alt using good ol glue to pimp it out.

Insurgent wrote:That is a damn nice repaint. Well done. Wish I had skills to kitbash, but the best I can manage is repaints and adding some bits from a KITT model to an Alt using good ol glue to pimp it out.

Then you already have the skills, what you need to do is just take them to the next level.

Bonger wrote:Great repaint.

I have yet to see a truly good UM trailer that actually works as armor. Everyone I've seen is too bulky and makes UM tower over Prime, which is unacceptable.

Works like Tramp's are definately impressive, but still, a long way from what I would want to see.

I actually prefer the repainted version as it would look the nicest in a display. Who the hell plays with their TFs anyway? Ideally I would want one really nice trailer to display in alt, and one nice repaint like this one for bot. Combining the 2 and still having the bot mode look good appears to be beyond any fan's skills from what I see. Though Hasbro's Tit. version is definately a huge step in the right direction.

BTW, fanatic pedantics should always be ignored. Responding just feeds their insanity.

Well, consider this, G1 Ultra magnus was bulky and did tower over Prime when in his armor. Like it or not, that is fact.

Tramp wrote:

Bonger wrote:Great repaint.

I have yet to see a truly good UM trailer that actually works as armor. Everyone I've seen is too bulky and makes UM tower over Prime, which is unacceptable.

Works like Tramp's are definately impressive, but still, a long way from what I would want to see.

I actually prefer the repainted version as it would look the nicest in a display. Who the hell plays with their TFs anyway? Ideally I would want one really nice trailer to display in alt, and one nice repaint like this one for bot. Combining the 2 and still having the bot mode look good appears to be beyond any fan's skills from what I see. Though Hasbro's Tit. version is definately a huge step in the right direction.

BTW, fanatic pedantics should always be ignored. Responding just feeds their insanity.

Well, consider this, G1 Ultra magnus was bulky and did tower over Prime when in his armor. Like it or not, that is fact.

Yes but he didnt look like a shoebox with legs either. Like it or not, that is a fact.