The Energon Pub

kirbenvost wrote:Repaints and remolds are fine, especially if they represent a different character. If they add someting unique and cool to it, by all means. If I don't like it, I don't buy it. I own several figures which are repaints or remolds, because I like how they were done.

However, what pisses me off is when Hasbro releases something flawed, and then releases it again the way they should have done it, whether it be fixing a problem or having better paint apps (Metallic Finish figures) or whatnot. It's a slap in the face to the people who went out there and hunted for a hard-to-find figure, only to find out a month later there's going to be a better version released. Some will buy it, but then what about the original figure? That's a waste of money to me, because no one's going to buy the inferior version. Sure, some people can afford it, but a lot can't. That said, I'm not buying Metallic Megatron because I hate the mold, nor Metallic Ratchet because I already have the first one.

I guess we just have to remember that Hasbro doesn't really have us collectors in mind. Mainly, they just want to make a profit, and they are.

i could never express my point any better than you have done dude.

By the way, i have rebounded my opinions on the Voyager Megatron after having just posted those pics of the new Metallic colors, he is in my Opinion, the Best Megatron Toy from the Movie ever!!!!!!!!! I would love to see him next to the Masterpiece Metallic Megs from G-1... ahhhh protoform and original earth mode.. nice!!!


BTW, WTF is up with the blue repaint of Movie Ironhide????


there it is again that annoying pain in my cheek....????



HASBRO!!!!!!!

This is a chance you take with any figure. We all KNOW Hasbro are inevitably going to repaint stuff. What you have to decide at the time you see the item is if it's good enough to buy now, or if you're prepared to wait and see if there's a superior repaint/remold somewhere down the line. You liked the damn figures enough when you bought them, why bitch now? It's not like Transformers usually come with metallic paintjobs.

In fact, that's what really bugs me about this. People have whined and bitched about Megatron's look, no matter which size class you're discussing. So Hasbro actually listen and put out a genuinely desirable repaint, and what happens? People moan about it. Gee, that'll inspire Hasbro to listen to the fans in future. Sweet monkey Jesus, it's the figure you've been complaining they didn't make! Buy it or don't, but please stop moaning about how they're just trying to make money.

Sledge wrote:This is a chance you take with any figure. We all KNOW Hasbro are inevitably going to repaint stuff. What you have to decide at the time you see the item is if it's good enough to buy now, or if you're prepared to wait and see if there's a superior repaint/remold somewhere down the line. You liked the damn figures enough when you bought them, why bitch now? It's not like Transformers usually come with metallic paintjobs.

In fact, that's what really bugs me about this. People have whined and bitched about Megatron's look, no matter which size class you're discussing. So Hasbro actually listen and put out a genuinely desirable repaint, and what happens? People moan about it. Gee, that'll inspire Hasbro to listen to the fans in future. Sweet monkey Jesus, it's the figure you've been complaining they didn't make! Buy it or don't, but please stop moaning about how they're just trying to make money.

Ahhhh so if you follow the buy now or pay later rule, what you get is buy now, and still pay later, because of the repaints.... but if you wait and see, you still could run the risk on no repaints.. it's all a catch 22, and you still forfiet money.. so whatever.. you obviously missed the point...

Do it right from the get go Next time Hasbro!!!!

I like Metallic Voyager megatron but Voyager Smurfatron is down right ugly!!

zemper wrote:i could never express my point any better than you have done dude.

Sledge: The problem is, Hasbro should have done the proper version in the first place, that's all. But they'd make less money that way.

I think the complaint is more along the lines of, "what were they thinking?" when they made him blue and pink instead of silver and gold.

I get your point though. What I found interesting is the post that mentioned that now the toys we just spent hundreds of dollars on will no longer be considered "as good" because they have an inferior paintjob.

Maybe in 20 years they'll be worth more for their inferiority, lol.

skywarp-2 wrote:
What of all the Knockoffs of G-1 toys, some people are buying them in the upper $300s, what does that say for the collector who only buys Hasbro Licensed products?

There are so many people who feel like the first released run of Transformers the Movie line up was a clear slap in the face, it was a money grab and released in limited quantity on purpose, to heighten the hype.

Firstly, there may be incidents of unscrupulous individuals selling knock-offs for $300, but I don't know of anyone actually buying them at that price. I think that's just a tactic where they hi-ball the price, so when it comes down to $70 or so, people will think it's a bargain.

Second, I don't think the scarcity of movie toys was some sort of cynical ploy by Hasbro. Other movie line toys haven't been selling well, and Hasbro simply played it safe by not overproducing them. Don't forget that there was a lot of negative buzz on the movie prior to release.

Personally, I hate the "better" repaints we get after the fact. And it's more than just the metallic movie repaints. It's Energon Galvatron getting the "right" deco after the first one was done. It'd Cybertron "Excellion" getting the deco we always knew he'd get since he's based of G1 Hot Rod. It's MP Starscream gettin gthe right colors after being initially done wrong.

If they're going to do their job, then they should do it right the first time. When it comes to toy releases, it sometimes pays to live in Canada. We get things slower than other places, but we do get 'em. And by that time the plan's all laid out ... so I know if there's a superior repaint coming down the road.

The KOs, well ... I suppose I don't like the clones since they devalue TF origionals, but ... if there's a cheaper alternative .... and as long as the seller's honest about what he has ... well ...

And we do have origional KOs that HasTak ought to have done a long time ago. Like the Quints, the MP Megs additions, Spike and Sparkplus, the other WSTF seekers, the WSTF Dinobots ... I love those KOs.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Personally, I hate the "better" repaints we get after the fact. And it's more than just the metallic movie repaints. It's Energon Galvatron getting the "right" deco after the first one was done. It'd Cybertron "Excellion" getting the deco we always knew he'd get since he's based of G1 Hot Rod. It's MP Starscream gettin gthe right colors after being initially done wrong.

If they're going to do their job, then they should do it right the first time. When it comes to toy releases, it sometimes pays to live in Canada. We get things slower than other places, but we do get 'em. And by that time the plan's all laid out ... so I know if there's a superior repaint coming down the road.

I do agree with most of this (except for the part about Energon Megatron/Galvatron - much as I like the 'toon, it's the toys I consider the 'accurate' ones, so if they were going for a Galvy homage with Megs they got him right first time ), but playing Unicron's advocate, in the metallics case, I don't think the reasoning behind it was a deliberate ploy on Hasbro's part.
From what I can figure, it costs them more to produce the figs in these metallic colourschemes. Since all the bitching about the movie and how bad the designs were, they probably figured the toys wouldn't sell as well as they were hoping, and decided they couldn't justify the extra cost of using the metallics.
Then the movie came out, people loved it, and they snapped the figs up. "Hang on," think Hasbro, "they do like them, after all. How much more will they like 'em if we redo them in the movie-style colours we were originally hoping to?"

Not saying I like it (not that it really affects me), but it may not have been an active scamming effort on their part. On the other hand, maybe I'm on a wrong'un and they do have horns, tails and hooves...

it would suck if the reason they didn't paint them metallic the first time is because TF fans bitched too much about the designs.

you might have a point though, it's definitely possible.

Sledge wrote:If the latest wave of repaints starts making completionists think twice, that's gotta be a good thing. If people stop buying every single thing with the TF logo on it that comes out, and only buy the good stuff, maybe that'll encourage Hasbro to up their game a little.

Not really understanding the Bumblebee issue. People have been bitching about how hard he is to find, now they're bitching because he's going to be re-released. Well damn, people, what DO you want?

Well, quite simply the fandom wants to complain about how Hasbro never listens to us and then complain when Hasbro or whoever does listen to us. No matter what, no matter how many or how excellent the figures we get are or will be, everything sucks.

Dagon wrote:

Sledge wrote:If the latest wave of repaints starts making completionists think twice, that's gotta be a good thing. If people stop buying every single thing with the TF logo on it that comes out, and only buy the good stuff, maybe that'll encourage Hasbro to up their game a little.

Not really understanding the Bumblebee issue. People have been bitching about how hard he is to find, now they're bitching because he's going to be re-released. Well damn, people, what DO you want?

Well, quite simply the fandom wants to complain about how Hasbro never listens to us and then complain when Hasbro or whoever does listen to us. No matter what, no matter how many or how excellent the figures we get are or will be, everything sucks.

QFT.

Dagon wrote:

Sledge wrote:If the latest wave of repaints starts making completionists think twice, that's gotta be a good thing. If people stop buying every single thing with the TF logo on it that comes out, and only buy the good stuff, maybe that'll encourage Hasbro to up their game a little.

Not really understanding the Bumblebee issue. People have been bitching about how hard he is to find, now they're bitching because he's going to be re-released. Well damn, people, what DO you want?

Well, quite simply the fandom wants to complain about how Hasbro never listens to us and then complain when Hasbro or whoever does listen to us. No matter what, no matter how many or how excellent the figures we get are or will be, everything sucks.

QFT!

I have to admit, KO like the nemesis Mirage are quite cool, that I can imagn will be worth something in the future.

Ramrider wrote: From what I can figure, it costs them more to produce the figs in these metallic colourschemes. Since all the bitching about the movie and how bad the designs were, they probably figured the toys wouldn't sell as well as they were hoping, and decided they couldn't justify the extra cost of using the metallics.
Then the movie came out, people loved it, and they snapped the figs up. "Hang on," think Hasbro, "they do like them, after all. How much more will they like 'em if we redo them in the movie-style colours we were originally hoping to?"

Not saying I like it (not that it really affects me), but it may not have been an active scamming effort on their part. On the other hand, maybe I'm on a wrong'un and they do have horns, tails and hooves...

IF that's the reason, then I can understand. And, really, I hope someone asks. But, to me, it just looks like someone was asleep at the helm the first time around.

I mean look at Blackout. I look at the toy in the galleries and I think he's nice enough, but there isn't enough there to justify my purchase. Then the Japan-exclusive one comes out and it's bloody fantastic. Especially Scorponok.

I get that more paint apps = more money, but at some point you do have to look at overall quality. This isn't some thing unique to the movie line either ... Energon Grimlock might have been saved by a more detailed color scheme. Which E Galvatron and Unicron are both stunning with the color scheme that they have. Ditto Classic Screamer's face.

I'd like to think it was innocence on the part of our manufactuers, but I just think someone wasn't doing their job right. If it was a case of a different character getting a better color scheme, I'd be more understanding (like MP Skywarp over MP Screamer), but they could have got this right on the first try.

Dagon wrote:Well, quite simply the fandom wants to complain about how Hasbro never listens to us and then complain when Hasbro or whoever does listen to us. No matter what, no matter how many or how excellent the figures we get are or will be, everything sucks.

I do get the impression that's what's going on. What worries me is, at what point will Hasbro decide that kids are buying TFs regardless, so why bother listening to a bunch of whiney collectors who complain about everything?

Bumblethumper wrote:Second, I don't think the scarcity of movie toys was some sort of cynical ploy by Hasbro. Other movie line toys haven't been selling well, and Hasbro simply played it safe by not overproducing them. Don't forget that there was a lot of negative buzz on the movie prior to release.

I think there's a lot of truth to this. The mayhem really kicked in a couple of weeks after the movie -- they were pretty slow sellers in June, judging by the full pegs everywhere. In fact, in early July I bought quite a few Movie Deluxes from Amazon, where they were discounted to $7.99! They were also running a "spend $25 on Transformers movie figures, get $5 off" promotion. That alone tells me that they did not anticipate the crush -- why discount at all if you know it's going to be a sure deal?

That being said, I'm more than a little grouchy about the repaints. I knew Megatron was coming, so I held off on the Voyager. But I bought Ratchet back in June, and also got the Rescue Ratchet repaint. So what happens? I plunk down the $15 for the metallic Ratchet. It looks really nice, and I'd hate to decide a month later "damn, I wish I had picked that up." But that's also how you end up spending WAY too much on Transformers.

If you're a Hasbro stockholder, I guess you applaud their behavior -- they're making a mint. As a collector, it irritates me that they won't just make enough for everyone, perhaps by doing multiple production runs. We've been reduced to rats running through a maze trying to get some metallic repainted cheese, and it is starting to piss me off.

Aw, diddums.

TinglingSensation wrote:
That being said, I'm more than a little grouchy about the repaints. I knew Megatron was coming, so I held off on the Voyager. But I bought Ratchet back in June, and also got the Rescue Ratchet repaint. So what happens? I plunk down the $15 for the metallic Ratchet. It looks really nice, and I'd hate to decide a month later "damn, I wish I had picked that up." But that's also how you end up spending WAY too much on Transformers.

Oh yeah, totally. You develop this mentality, where you feel that if you don't buy what's on the shelf now, you may not get a second chance and it'll be gone next time. The result is, you're not as selective. I found it also meant that I was making far more shopping trips than I would have otherwise taken. And after a while, I get sick of making fruitless journeys. After a while, you don't want to go home empty-handed. So yeah, I picked up a few I wasn't totally sold on, like some of the real gears, and 2 FABs.

Another effect was that I always intended to cherry pick the line. I never had any intention of being a completist. But with the scarcity, you had to put a lot of effort into getting what you wanted. As a result, transformers have been on my mind a lot more than they would've otherwise been, and by and by, I developed a curiosity and interest in figures I'd been planning to skip.

So yeah, it's worked out great for Hasbro. I'd even venture the possibility that they may have sold more this way than if they'd been fully stocked to exceed the demand.

At the same token, they may have lost a great many sales to kids and many more casual fans who were unable to get the transformers they wanted at the peak of the craze, and whose interests have since moved on to other things. Whatever the case, I can't really blame Hasbro. Ultimately they have to do what's best for business.

you know, I honestly don't know what to think of the KO's, I mean if the seller let you know what they have, and your not mislead in any way, and the price is considerably lower then any of the real versions would be, and the quality and boxes are almost just like a hasbro version.. then well.....


I would buy a KO Predaking as long as th quality and box were on par with Hasbro's version, I'd certainly pay 100.00 versus a cool half a grand as it is now...

If the quality and the price are right, I'd buy a KO. However, there's a lot of grey areas. There's no question that it's morally wrong. Of course it is. But I don't think it's quite as harmful when the toys are old and out of production, and the packaging quite clearly reflects the non-official nature of the toy.

But recently we've seen knock-offs of Nike, Alternator, Classics, and some Movie transformers and that's a worrying trend. When it gets to the point where the knockoff becomes comparable to the original in terms of quality, and preferable in terms of price, it's pretty much a direct threat to Hasbro. Especially when the knock off is produced while the original is still in stores.

If nothing else, I think it's acceptable to use them for custom-painting and kit-bashing, but other than that, it's not something which should be encouraged.

Counterpunch wrote:

It Is Him wrote:Also, completely off-topic, is that a JoJo's Bizarre Adventure sig? It looks like one, though I can't tell because I've only read half the series

New guy ftw with the 2-hit combo!

Indeed it is. I hardly ever actually have anything Transformers related in my sigs.

Good call though. It's early Falcoon art. Of course he got rid of all that stuff online when SNK hired him.

That's awesome! I never got to see Falcoon's original work. He does such a great job with the new KOFs, I'm curious what he did to get SNK's attention.

Sledge wrote:

Dagon wrote:Well, quite simply the fandom wants to complain about how Hasbro never listens to us and then complain when Hasbro or whoever does listen to us. No matter what, no matter how many or how excellent the figures we get are or will be, everything sucks.

I do get the impression that's what's going on. What worries me is, at what point will Hasbro decide that kids are buying TFs regardless, so why bother listening to a bunch of whiney collectors who complain about everything?

Well, my dear Sledge, that's a simple answer as well. You see, Transformers are toys meant for kids, and since we as grown up collectors are not kids (age-wise at least), we are glad when Hasbro makes toys for the kiddies out there. That's why people complain about not having a G1 Arcee (because you know how much kids whose first TF experience was Energon love G1 Arcee...) and we are appauled when scalpers by all the TFs because then we can't get them....oh yeah, and kids miss out on them too.....
There might come a time when Hasbro sits back and wonders why they keep trying to please a fanbase that remains ever unpleasable, when kids still like transforming robots regardless of knee-less-ness or non accurate paintjobs. Then we can cry about how Hasbro doesn't pay attention to us, and how we still hate the company for releasing repaints.
Since we're so tired of getting the same old toys just repainted, I find it strange that we seem in general to be excited about the news of Encore Jazz, Jazz'z (? ) 3rd reissue in the last 5-6 years.......

Sledge wrote:This is a chance you take with any figure. We all KNOW Hasbro are inevitably going to repaint stuff.

Usually. I'm still waiting for an Energon Fatimus in decent colours. I may just have to give in and admit that it'll never happen. Sometime in the next decade. Maybe.


No damn it! Hasbro, I want my red and blue Fatimus! Gimme!

It Is Him wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

It Is Him wrote:Also, completely off-topic, is that a JoJo's Bizarre Adventure sig? It looks like one, though I can't tell because I've only read half the series

New guy ftw with the 2-hit combo!

Indeed it is. I hardly ever actually have anything Transformers related in my sigs.

Good call though. It's early Falcoon art. Of course he got rid of all that stuff online when SNK hired him.

That's awesome! I never got to see Falcoon's original work. He does such a great job with the new KOFs, I'm curious what he did to get SNK's attention.

I can put it all in a zip file for you if you're interested.

Here is a list of some exclusives.. you tell me if it's too much, or not enough?

Best Buy Autobot Ratchet (metallic version) Autobot Ratchet (Voyager) 83608 / 83607 $19.99 October 2007

Best Buy Megatron (metallic version) Megatron (Voyager) 83609 / 83607 $19.99 October 2007

Best Buy Optimus Prime (battle damaged Movie version) & Cliffjumper (Movie version) Optimus Prime (Robot Heries Movie version) & Bumblebee (Robot Heroes Movie version) $29.99 (with purchase of two-disc special edition Movie DVD) October 2007

Costco Optimus Prime (with Bumblebee & Autobot Jazz) Optimus Prime (Leader), Bumblebee (Legends) & Autobot Jazz (Legends) 83399 $34.99 August 2007 Repackaged Leader Optimus Prime, Legends Bumblebee and Legends Autobot Jazz (no repaints)

Costco Ultimate Bumblebee (with "Special Value" 3" Titanium Series Bumblebee) Utimate Bumblebee & Bumblebee (3" Titanium Robot Masters) 8???? $69.99 October 2007 Repackaged Ultimate Bumblebee & 3" Titanium Bumblebee (no repaints)

Kmart Bumblebee (Unleashed) [with bonus comic] Bumblebee (Unleashed) 83373 $19.99 June 2007
Repackaged Unleashed Bumblebee (no repaint)

Sam's Club Decepticon Brawl, Bonecrusher & Autobot Jazz Decepticon Brawl (Deluxe), Bonecrusher (Deluxe) & Autobot Jazz (Deluxe) 83419 $24.88 July 2007 Repackaged Deluxe Decepticon Brawl, Deluxe Bonecrusher and Deluxe Autobot Jazz (no repaints)

Target Robo Vision Optimus Prime Voyager Optimus Prime 83327 $24.99 June 2007

Target Movie Optimus Prime, Cybertron Optimus Prime, Movie Megatron & Cybertron Megatron Optimus Prime (Movie Legends), Optimus Prime (Legends of Cybertron), Megatron (Movie Legends) & Megatron (Legends of Cybertron) 82990 $9.99 July 2007 Repackaged Movie Legends Optimus Prime, Legends of Cybertron Optimus Prime, Movie Legends Megatron and Legends of Cybertron Megatron (no repaints)

Target Starscream (G1 deco) Starscream (Voyager) 83428 $19.99 August 2007

Target Autobot Jazz (G1 deco) Autobot Jazz (Deluxe) 83429 $9.99 August 2007

Target Evolution of a Hero: Bumblebee (Classic Camaro & Battle Damaged Camaro Concept) Bumblebee (Deluxe '74 Camaro) & Bumblebee (Deluxe '08 Camaro) 83007 $19.99 September 2007

Target Optimus Prime Battle Rig Blaster (with bonus Fast Action Battler Power Hook Optimus Prime) Optimus Prime Battle Rig Blaster & Power Hook Optimus Prime (Fast Action Battler) 8???? $? October 2007 Repackaged Optimus Prime Battle Rig Blaster & Fast Action Battler Power Hook Optimus Prime (no repaints)

Toys'R'Us Decepticon Desert Attack (Blackout [with Scorponok] & Scorponok) Blackout with Scorponok (Voyager) & Scorponok (Deluxe) 83336 $24.99 June 2007 Repackaged Voyager Blackout and Deluxe Scorponok (no repaints)

Toys'R'Us Bumblebee, Autobot Jazz, Optimus Prime, Megatron, Barricade & Starscream Bumblebee (Legends), Autobot Jazz (Legends), Optimus Prime (Legends), Megatron (Legends), Barricade (Legends) & Starscream (Legends) 83011 $24.99 August 2007 Repacked Legends Bumblebee, Legends Autobot Jazz, Legends Optimus Prime, Legends Megatron, Legends Barricade and Legends Starscream (no repaints)

Wal*Mart Protoform Optimus Prime (with bonus poster) Protoform Optimus Prime (Deluxe) 8???? / 82992 $24.99 May 2007 Repackaged Deluxe Protoform Optimus Prime (no repaint)

Wal*Mart Protoform Starscream (with bonus poster) Protoform Optimus Prime (Deluxe) 8???? / 82992 $24.99 May 2007 Repackaged Deluxe Protoform Starscream (no repaint)

Wal*Mart Bumblebee vs. Barricade (with Decepticon Frenzy): First Encounter Bumblebee (Deluxe) & Baricade (Deluxe) 82993 $16.99 June 2007 Repackaged Deluxe Bumblebee and Deluxe Barricade (no repaints)

Wal*Mart Leader for the Ages (2007 Optimus Prime & 1984 Optimus Prime) Power Hook Optimus Prime (Fast Action Battler) & Deluxe Optimus Prime (Classics two-pack) 83382 $19.99 June 2007 Repackaged Fast Action Battler Power Hook Optimus Prime and Classics two-pack Optimus Prime (no repaints)

Wal*Mart Decepticon Sneak Attack (Mirage [hologram deco], Cliffjumper, Optimus Prime [supermetal finish], Skywarp & Megatron [supermetal finish]) Mirage (Robot Heroes), Bumblebee (Robot Heroes), Optimus Prime (Robot Heroes), Starscream (Robot Heroes) & Megatron (Robot Heroes) 83005 $9.99 June 2007

Wal*Mart Optimus Prime Blaster Optimus Prime Energon Blaster (Energon) 83326 $9.99 July 2007

Wal*Mart Mass Media Battle (Speed Dial 800 & Booster X10) Speed Dial 800 & Booster X10 83387 / 83383 $11.96 August 2007 Repackaged Real Gear Robots Speed Dial 800 & Booster X10 (no repaints)

Wal*Mart Robo Recon Team (Spy Shot 6 & Longview) Spy Shot 6 & Longview 83388 / 83383 $11.96 August 2007 Repackaged Real Gear Robots Spy Shot 6 & Longview (no repaints)

Wal*Mart Brain Scrambler Team (Power Up VT6 & Zoom Out 25X) Power Up VT6 & Zoom Out 25X 83389 / 83383 $11.96 August 2007 Repackaged Real Gear Robots Power Up VT6 & Zoom Out 25X (no repaints)

Wal*Mart Megatron vs. Optimus Prime (battle damaged versions) Optimus Prime (Robot Replicas) & Megatron (Robot Replicas) 83008 $17.97 September 2007

Wal*Mart Optimus Prime Voice Changer (with "Bonus" T.E.C.H. Digital Dagger) Optimus Prime Voice Changer & T.E.C.H. Digital Dagger 8???? $19.97 September 2007 Repackaged Optimus Prime Voice Changer & T.E.C.H. Digital Dagger (no repaints)

? Bumblebee & Optimus Prime Bumblebee (Deluxe '08 Camaro) & Optimus Prime (Voyager) 8???? $? Out in the UK (August 2007) Repackaged Deluxe '08 Camaro Bumblebee & Voyager Optimus Prime (no repaints)

? Arcee (battle damaged), Starscream & Optimus Prime (battle damaged) Arcee (Deluxe), Starscream (Voyager) & Optimus Prime (Voyager) 8???? $? Optimus Prime seen courtesy of Hasbro (?) (August 2007)

?Optimus Prime test shot surfaced in China (August 2007)
Packaging stock photo seen (October 2007) Repackaged Voyager Class Starscream (no repaints)

Honestly, i could care less for repackaged Merchandise That I passed on in the first place, i mean I'm more interested in the Best buy Premium Repaints, that is where I will be sticking my money from now on, until classics is released in Japan..