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Dead Metal wrote:Why are people questioning he animation? I don't remember them saying the animation would be different.

Sabrblade has been saying it, I guess since he generally knows what he's talking about I took it for granted.

Let's first see some episodes, m'kay?

Yes, let me join in on this prejudiced horror show.

I haz no opinion since I haven't finished watching season1/2 of Prime.

2d works better for me than 3d, I don't know which one's more expensive to make
nowadays.

And to X, I don't mind holding my kids back from the horror of real life when they're kids.
And remember, adults make that horror, not kids. You don't want them hating us from 4 years old?

Huh, strange. I received no email of any new posts in this thread since my last post, only just now noticing more posts have been made.

njb902 wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Why are people questioning he animation? I don't remember them saying the animation would be different.

Sabrblade has been saying it, I guess since he generally knows what he's talking about I took it for granted.

To be fair, the info that told me the next show would be 2D was strangely not posted on this site. It was originally posted on Tokunation and later TFW2005 by a user named Potato who works as a storyboard director for several cartoons like The Legend of Korra. He posted several rumors regarding the next show, with the only things he said that were confirmed true were that it would be 2D and that most of what he spoke of was for a show that would be the replacement of Rescue Bots instead of TF: Prime's replacement (suggesting that we may be getting more than one new cartoon coming soon). With Orci's interview supposedly referring to TF: Prime's replacement, it's possible that both series might be more on the family friendly side, but surely the Prime replacement will have the cooler "big kid" writing and plots, right?

If anyone's curious about what each rumor was that Potato stated, I went and compiled them all here in a new post for Unicron.com (I'm an admin over there):

rumors on the future of the Transformers cartoons have started to come in from Tokunation user Potato, who works as a storyboarding director on shows like Nickelodeon's The Legend of Korra.


Rumor #1: An upcoming Transformers cartoon will have 2D animation

Right now the only action cartoons in production are Avengers, TMNT, Korra, Hulk, Max Steele, Star Wars and Ben 10 (off the top of my head) and some of these won't get renewed. Batman and Spiderman are pretty much done and in post production. There aren't any new action shows in the pipeline or pre-production (other than Star Wars and next Transformers (back to 2D)), so we're gonna be heading into an action dry spell within 2 years.

Rumor #2: The same crew that worked on Transformers: Prime is working on this new series.

Yeah, Transformers is going back to 2D. Same crew though, with Jose doing designs. Reason of this (as well as WB not doing anymore CG shows after Beware the Batman) is cost. CG shows cost roughly 3 times more than a quality show. So yeah...GL costs 3X more than YJ...but the return in profits wasn't that much more than YJ.

Rumor #3: This new cartoon is going to be aimed at a younger audience than TF: Prime was.

Guys...I got some bad news. Next transformers is gonna be aimed at kids...as in it's gonna be closer to rescue bots than Prime.

Rumor #4: The designs for this new cartoon will be simpler than they were for TF: Prime.

very very simple. I like the designs (same designer), but they are going in a completely opposite direction. Instructions were to keep them as simple as possible...and then start adding detials. Basically, can you design a robot with as little lines as possible?

Rumor #4: The simpler designs might be related to Hasbro's recent push for simpler toys.

Yeah, it won't necessarily be bad. It could be good. I'm just letting nostalgia get the better of me. I hardly watch cartoons aimed at the younger/younger kids (rescue bots, super hero squad, the fischer price Rescue Heroes). But as Electric Turhak brought up, it might mean simpler toys too...that seems to be the case that a lot of companies are going. Mattel, Hasbro and etc.

Rumor #5: The 2D animation could lead to a much larger cast of characters than TF: Prime could have ever gotten.

But knowing it's going 2D is actually a good thing. Since generally CG shows cost 3 times more to produce than 2D, they can probably spend the money on other things..plus you can have a crapload more of characters showing up on screen. That's always been the limitation of CG shows (unless you have Lucas' budget) is the number of characters that can appear onscreen at the same time. I enjoyed the crap out of Prime and wished I had worked on it. And even though the Hub is a newer animation studio, the people they employ are all top notch veterans. Someone here said it best..Transformers the Animated series was aimed at the younger crowd. And that turned out awesome.

Rumor #6: It is entirely possible that Transformers 4 could (or not) have some kind of influence on the next cartoon series (not unlike how TF: Prime was influenced by the previous films).

I also forgot to mention...generaly, in animation, feature movies dictate the direction of animation. So if Michael Bay's latest transformers is a hit, you can pretty much bet there will be a spin off series loosely based or tied to a feature movie (and that resulted in Prime...which I enjoyed way more than the movies). Same thing happened with DC and Marvel properties.

Potato then elaborated on a few more things over at TFW2005:

Rumor #7: It is very possible that something closer to TF: Prime could potentially in the pipeline too.

Hi guys! Potato here (the one that reported the rumor on toku). Seems like there's a lot of negative reaction to the news. Again, this could completely change since nothing is in production yet. Hell, they don't even have a full product crew there yet. But I wouldn't worry about it. IF IT IS aimed at kids (ala rescue bots) it shouldn't be long before they get to work on something closer to Prime (in terms of age). After all, the shows are mainly commercials for the toys...and last I checked, Transformers toys seem to be selling pretty damn well. More than their Imaginext counterparts.

Rumor #8: Most of the above rumored info came from one of the writers from TF: Prime.

None of this info is really all that new. It was already mentioned by one of the writers from prime (which I don't know whether he'll be coming back for new series or not)

Not a rumor, but a reminder: Take all of this with a grain of salt, since no actual production has commenced yet.

Yeah. I'd take this rumor with a grain of salt. Typically, production in animation doesn't usually solidify until towards the end of the year. They're now in preproduction/development phase. The only news that was confirmed at the hasbro booth at Sdcc is that it's 2D.

Rumor #9: IMPORTANT! The above info is NOT for TF: Prime's replacement, but for the replacement of Rescue Bots. TF: Prime's replacement is still in waiting.

UPDATE!: well...this embarrassing. Got the wrong info. Kind off. Yes. It's 2D. Yes, it's aimed at kids. But it isn't the replacement for Prime. It's the replacement for rescue bots.

They're still waiting for Michael bays next movie before they start developing it. Same thing for gi joe. They're waiting for part 3, before they develop a new series.

Rumor #10: They are waiting to see how well Transformers 4 does before really getting started on TF: Prime's replacement.

They want to see how TF4 performs before going that route. If they start developing now, and the reboot fails, they would have wasted development. Same exact reason no GIJOE show is in development. It all hinges on how gijoe3 performs.

Another reminder: Even if there may be no new show to fill TF: Prime's spot until TF4 comes out, there WILL be plenty of new things coming out during then, nonetheless.

Guys, just because there might not be anything to fill in Prime's spot until TF4 comes out, it doesn't mean there won't be any new transformers toys. The info I got for rescue bots was a combination from blogs/interviews/tumbler of cast/crew you can find on the net and the hasbro guy I was chatting with at the hasbro booth at SDCC. He didn't know I was in the animation field, so any info I got from him, could be completely different from stuff coming out of Hub.

As far as new transformers toys, remember that there are other projects besides animated ones. There are video games, comic books, possible webisodes and even evergreen products. Hasbro has been known to do this. Look at the recent Jurassic Park toys. Mattel does the same thing. They release toys Batman toys not related to any current media-tie in. There's Transformers Go! They'll probably bring those over and rebrand them as Hasbros and whatnot.

So, take all of this what you will.

Yea, I don't like what I've read there, but then again I can wait. If it turns out to be like what I read in those rumors by Potato, I won't be supporting it. I'm sick of having to get used to a new style and esthetic every two years. I've only just gotten used to TF Prime to the point that I liked it more in CGI than 2D.
If this is done in 2D and is indeed done in super simple designs it's going to feel to different for me to actually care for it anymore.

Dead Metal wrote:Yea, I don't like what I've read there, but then again I can wait. If it turns out to be like what I read in those rumors by Potato, I won't be supporting it. I'm sick of having to get used to a new style and esthetic every two years. I've only just gotten used to TF Prime to the point that I liked it more in CGI than 2D.
If this is done in 2D and is indeed done in super simple designs it's going to feel to different for me to actually care for it anymore.

Well, don't forget, he said that info is for RB's replacement, not for Prime's. Prime's replacement could be much closer to Prime's aesthetic than we think.

With TF4 on the horizon, though, I sense another aesthetical change approaching, but one probably of a similar vein to the familiar Movieverse aesthetic. Sure, it's a change to something familiar, but a change nonetheless.

In addition to my previous inquiry, here is another.

I see plenty of complaints that the new cartoon may be lighter on the violence and killing, and that it will supposedly "suck" because of that. Well, why do we need any of that to tell a good story? Why do we need extremely graphic violence or slaughtering massacres or arbitrary murderous deaths? What point does any of that serve beyond creating a facade of trying to be "edgy", "gritty", "epic", "rugged", "manly" etc.? Why is it so important that something be seen as any of those when none of those are anything deep or crucial aspects of quality storytelling? Why can't something that's "honest", "sincere", "charming", "joyous", "friendly" etc. be seen as good in their own right?

Several episodes of many series, including G1, have even pointed out how the Autobots hate that they must fight in a war and would prefer to lay down their weapons for peace if such an opportunity were affordable to them. But sadly, outside of rare cases in which they do end of winning the war for good, the war must go on with them having not choice but to fight for what is right and to save and protect their loved ones. They don't kill for splendor and pleasure, they only kill when given no choice, and usually seek every possible alternative with killing be a last resort.

I especially question this when one considers how good-natured and moralistic the Transformers brand has been/tried to be over the years. This is a brand whose stories tend to promote and support positive, virtuous messages of hope, peace, love, kindness, friendship, camaraderie, loyalty, honor, and many more, and has thrived on for so long partly because of it.

People die in war sabrblade, don't get me wrong I don't need for there to be deaths or injuries to make it a good story, it's just more realistic.

njb902 wrote:People die in war sabrblade, don't get me wrong I don't need for there to be deaths or injuries to make it a good story, it's just more realistic.

And that's another question. Why do we need more realism when fantasy can be just as entertaining?

The latter especially serves better to accomodate feelings of escapism than the former does.

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:People die in war sabrblade, don't get me wrong I don't need for there to be deaths or injuries to make it a good story, it's just more realistic.

And that's another question. Why do we need more realism when fantasy can be just as entertaining?

The latter especially serves better to accomodate feelings of escapism than the former does.

If escapism is what you want you're right. Wouldn't you like to see a transformers show that was geared towards adults that isn't afraid to go in some directions?

njb902 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:People die in war sabrblade, don't get me wrong I don't need for there to be deaths or injuries to make it a good story, it's just more realistic.

And that's another question. Why do we need more realism when fantasy can be just as entertaining?

The latter especially serves better to accomodate feelings of escapism than the former does.

If escapism is what you want you're right. Wouldn't you like to see a transformers show that was geared towards adults that isn't afraid to go in some directions?

That's pretty much what Prime was. As was Beast Machines, in certain ways.

If that isn't good enough, the live action movies got that covered.

Transformers is, has been, and always will be for children. That's a large portion of what has made it successful for 30 years.

There's also the toy selling aspect. How well would a show marketed fully towards adult be able to advertise children's toys if the show alienates children (the toys' primary consumers)? Or, if such a show were to not have a toyline, that could prove problematic on several levels.

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:People die in war sabrblade, don't get me wrong I don't need for there to be deaths or injuries to make it a good story, it's just more realistic.

And that's another question. Why do we need more realism when fantasy can be just as entertaining?

The latter especially serves better to accomodate feelings of escapism than the former does.

If escapism is what you want you're right. Wouldn't you like to see a transformers show that was geared towards adults that isn't afraid to go in some directions?

That's pretty much what Prime was. As was Beast Machines, in certain ways.

If that isn't good enough, the live action movies got that covered.

Transformers is, has been, and always will be for children. That's a large portion of what has made it successful for 30 years.

There's also the toy selling aspect. How well would a show marketed fully towards adult be able to advertise children's toys if the show alienates children (the toys' primary consumers)? Or, if such a show were to not have a toyline, that could prove problematic on several levels.

I could live with a stand alone series. I don't need a toy to go along with a show, especially if it is awesome. Maybe I'm alone in that respect, but keep in mind this is just about my own wish fulfilment not what is or will be.

njb902 wrote:I could live with a stand alone series. I don't need a toy to go along with a show, especially if it is awesome. Maybe I'm alone in that respect, but keep in mind this is just about my own wish fulfilment not what is or will be.

We have to keep in mind that, at its core, Transformers is a children's brand meant to sell toys. The average adult does not regularly purchase toy-related items for themselves, which is a big part of why they're not the target demographic.

I can't think of a single motion picture piece of fiction in this brand that doesn't have some form of toys to go with it. Remember back when it was believed that TF: Prime wouldn't have a toyline? People were practically begging for Prime toys to be made. If a piece of Transformers fiction is made without toys, chances are there will be demand for toys of its characters to be made.

Anything aimed at adults in this brand has usually been either A) simultaneous aimed at children, B) aimed specifically at adults who are collectors and nostalgic of the brand from their childhood (i.e. - aimed at an adult's "inner child"), or C) severely limited to non-mainstream levels. The only way they could make something truly adult-oriented and not meant for children at all would be for it be something of an exclusive variety and completely off the mainstream radar. Like, if there were to be an adult cartoon, it'd have to be like a mini-series of just a handful of episodes, or direct-to-DVD shorts. Something that would keep kids from away from it so as to not cause controversy amongst angry parents.

Speaking of which, controversy is another big factor in this. No one wants it, and everyone wants to avoid it. With Transformers being so grounded as a children's brand, if there were to be some adult-only work of fiction made, any parent not in the know of its nature could take one quick glance at the product, see the familiar "Transformers" name, assume that it's safe for children, and obliviously show it to their kids. Even if there were to be some kind of warning on the package, those are commonly overlooked and never considered with products belonging to something that is typically harmless and acceptable for the young'uns. The last thing Hasbro wants to do is tick off parents for what could be seen as an intentional failure to adhere to an ethical standard the company has set up with its IP for the last 30 years. It would make Hasbro look shameful and bring damage to their good name.

After all, Hasbro, in their attempts to reiterate their status as a "family company", even went as far as to change the subtitles of Shout! Factory's Transformers: Victory DVDs by renaming the Breastforce as the "Chestforce" (despite the Japanese dialogue still clearly speaking the word "Buresutofōsu" and other cases of "breast" like in "Breast Attack" and "Breastar"), when no non-otaku child under the age of 13 would have the attention span to sit down and watch 32+ episodes of a subtitled cartoon in a different language than their own.

Sabrblade wrote:

njb902 wrote:I could live with a stand alone series. I don't need a toy to go along with a show, especially if it is awesome. Maybe I'm alone in that respect, but keep in mind this is just about my own wish fulfilment not what is or will be.

We have to keep in mind that, at its core, Transformers is a children's brand meant to sell toys. The average adult does not regularly purchase toy-related items for themselves, which is a big part of why they're not the target demographic.

I can't think of a single motion picture piece of fiction in this brand that doesn't have some form of toys to go with it. Remember back when it was believed that TF: Prime wouldn't have a toyline? People were practically begging for Prime toys to be made. If a piece of Transformers fiction is made without toys, chances are there will be demand for toys of its characters to be made.

Anything aimed at adults in this brand has usually been either A) simultaneous aimed at children, B) aimed specifically at adults who are collectors and nostalgic of the brand from their childhood (i.e. - aimed at an adult's "inner child"), or C) severely limited to non-mainstream levels. The only way they could make something truly adult-oriented and not meant for children at all would be for it be something of an exclusive variety and completely off the mainstream radar. Like, if there were to be an adult cartoon, it'd have to be like a mini-series of just a handful of episodes, or direct-to-DVD shorts. Something that would keep kids from away from it so as to not cause controversy amongst angry parents.

Speaking of which, controversy is another big factor in this. No one wants it, and everyone wants to avoid it. With Transformers being so grounded as a children's brand, if there were to be some adult-only work of fiction made, any parent not in the know of its nature could take one quick glance at the product, see the familiar "Transformers" name, assume that it's safe for children, and obliviously show it to their kids. Even if there were to be some kind of warning on the package, those are commonly overlooked and never considered with products belonging to something that is typically harmless and acceptable for the young'uns. The last thing Hasbro wants to do is tick off parents for what could be seen as an intentional failure to adhere to an ethical standard the company has set up with its IP for the last 30 years. It would make Hasbro look shameful and bring damage to their good name.

After all, Hasbro, in their attempts to reiterate their status as a "family company", even went as far as to change the subtitles of Shout! Factory's Transformers: Victory DVDs by renaming the Breastforce as the "Chestforce" (despite the Japanese dialogue still clearly speaking the word "Buresutofōsu" and other cases of "breast" like in "Breast Attack" and "Breastar").

A wish man, just a wish. Take a deep breath and let it out.

njb902 wrote:A wish man, just a wish. Take a deep breath and let it out.

I know I know. I was sending a message to everyone.

A series geared to adults? I doubt it will ever happen. It's just not their mainstream audience, I would love a series like that but I really doubt that it will every happen. And for them to market that properly would be a complete mess.

I was surprised my Transformers Animated. At first look, it was like utter crap, but after i sat down and started watching the episodes, it's brilliance showed through.

I hate Bayformers. I make no reservations about this, but i liked TA, i loved Prime, and if Orci does as good of a job with the next series, as he did with Prime, i'm totally onboard for it.

Now, that Transfomers Go!...sigh...IMO, they shoulda called Transformers WTF!?, but they may prove me wrong and make it worth while. lol

I think I am happy with some of the adult themes already present in Prime, animated (which had a nice little war scene where Cyclonus and a few others attack a few autobots and even kill the nurse if I remember correctly), Beast Wars, which killed off a few characters here and there, and of course the 86 movie that was delightfully violent, but still had those themes of hope (matrix), friendship (junkions) and joy that came from every win the autobots had, even the slight ones (when they escape earth and have a moment to breathe)

I think it can have both the childish fun and the adult themes and still stay true to the TF brand AND still have good storytelling. Animated showed a lot of the more regular Earth based stories, but then still managed to include some of the war elements through Ratchet's flashbacks, and what really ends up happening to the Autobots on Cybertron. The comics also seem to show a LOT more than just the war, but there is still the very violent parts with the Decepticons who turn into torture devices.

I want it all It doesn't need to show the violence to get good storytelling across, but at the same time, I don't want it to sugar coat things if there really is an ongoing war and its important in the story to show it. BladeRunner, as an example, had brilliant story telling, yet didn't NEED to show the replicants' escape from the mining colony. The emotions communicated when those events are told in the movie was enough to bring forth the very seriousness of the situation, and perhaps did it more justice than if it were made today, and you saw all the cgi bullcrap that would be in those scenes. I know, BladeRunner is an adult movie, I was just using it as an example for what is required in good storytelling, and what necessarily isn't.

vegetacron wrote:Now, that Transfomers Go!...sigh...IMO, they shoulda called Transformers WTF!?, but they may prove me wrong and make it worth while. lol

People shouldn't be treating Go! like any typical TF cartoon as it's not supposed to be. It's just a series of short, straightforward mini-sodes that serve as magazine extras rather than a full fledged cartoon.

The best comparison I can make to it would be the Cyber Missions online web series episodes, which were even more cheap-looking yet those hardly get any flak at all.

MINDVVIPE wrote:I think I am happy with some of the adult themes already present in Prime, animated (which had a nice little war scene where Cyclonus and a few others attack a few autobots and even kill the nurse if I remember correctly),

None of Team Athenia were killed by Team Chaar's attack. Though, Rodimus was put out of commission for a while by Oil Slick's Cosmic Rust, but he recovered by "Decepticon Air", being visibly alive and well in (the HD widescreen version of) that episode's parade crowd shot.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Beast Wars, which killed off a few characters here and there,

For Beast Wars, they could get away with most of the violence it had for two reasons: A large portion of it was comical instead of graphic (i.e. - Waspinator's suffrage), and the CR Chamber/CR Tank ensured everyone "killed" would be back to form by the next episode.

Though, the season finales were a different case entirely.

Spittor Kills the Autobot nurse in TA during that scene where hotrod is hit with cosmic rust.

Beast Wars did have the CR chambers, but there were definitely some final deaths:
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_deaths_in_Beast_Wars

It's appropriate to have deaths in a war. If the story wasn't about the war, then i'm completely fine with it being minimal on violence and death. But I do agree that it should be handled with care and not just to be "edgy".

MINDVVIPE wrote:Spittor Kills the Autobot nurse in TA during that scene where hotrod is hit with cosmic rust.

And yet, Red Alert was seen alive and well later in both "Decepticon Air" and "Endgame, Part II". And again in "The Stunti-Con Job".

MINDVVIPE wrote:Beast Wars did have the CR chambers, but there were definitely some final deaths:
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_deaths_in_Beast_Wars

I didn't say there weren't deaths in it. Just that the comedy and CR chambers allowed characters to "die" without really dying.

The actual deaths came from either cases like Dinobot (in which they had to move old product to make room for newcomers) or the season finales, which, as I said, were something else altogether.

MINDVVIPE wrote:It's appropriate to have deaths in a war. If the story wasn't about the war, then i'm completely fine with it being minimal on violence and death. But I do agree that it should be handled with care and not just to be "edgy".

I'm not saying there should be no death in war fiction. Just that it need not be so heavily promoted in order to have good storytelling.

I mean, in all honesty, would all 65 episodes of TF: Prime still be as popular as they are if Cliffjumper's murder hadn't happened like it did and episode 1 instead began with Cliff's funeral?

Not specifically asking you, MINDVVIPE. Just a general question to anyone.

Ok Sabre, it's kinda impossible and hard to read if I went and responded to everything separately so I'll try to do it like this.

Cliffjumper dying has nothing to do with TFPrime's popularity, nothing at all, if it did it would mean that Cliffjumper is a universally hated character, but he's not that job is kinda taken up by Wheely, The Movieverse guys and Energon.

The thing that makes TF Prime great is the fact that it's for children, but instead going the G1 route and treating it's viewer ship like idiots it takes itself and its viewers serious. It doesn't talk down to its audience. Sure it has it's moments where it kinda cheats, but for the most part it doesn't.

It's great because it goes the Batman TAS route by being something that can be watched by both children and adults alike, without anyone feeling stupid doing so. It also has the quality to back that up. It's realistic in the way it presents its premise. It also has self respect and respect for its characters. IN TF Prime a death actually means something while in every other TF show all it does is make the audience count the episodes till it's reversed.


Transformers has always been about a war, and a part of that is that people die, it adds to the show if every now and then someone actually dies due to the war that's going on. Otherwise it would be utterly pointless to have the premise be war.


If they're going for a sequel and kiddy it down, change the feel, change the style, and approach to the point that it's basically a completely different series, then of course it's going to suck. It's going to suck in the sense of being the show it's supposed to be a sequel of. If they thought that Prime's approach was too dark for children, then why the hell did they not change it before? So far everything save for Rescue Bots has been as dark as Prime, some of it even darker. This was Hasbro's whole desire, to be more than just a company that makes kiddy toys for kids, they wanted to do entertainment as well.
In fact so far Aligned has primarily been built around entertainment instead of toys. The TF Prime toy line is literally an afterthought, the FE toys were actually meant to be part of Generations.
They even went so far as to announce that Aligned will be here to stay for at least the next 10 years (back then, now it's still 6) of Transformers. And they've been working on that for at least the time of ROTF.

So this whole making it kiddy is a little weird, taking into mind the effort they put into this new direction and image. I mean what's the point then? They could just as well go back to importing crappy Anime shows by third parties.

Dead Metal wrote:Ok Sabre, it's kinda impossible and hard to read if I went and responded to everything separately so I'll try to do it like this.

Very well.

Dead Metal wrote:Cliffjumper dying has nothing to do with TFPrime's popularity, nothing at all, if it did it would mean that Cliffjumper is a universally hated character, but he's not that job is kinda taken up by Wheely, The Movieverse guys and Energon.

Well said.

My mentioning of Cliffjumper's murder was meant for those who cite it as an example of the show's "maturity" and "sophistication" just because it happened in the first five minutes of the first episode and was done so brutally, when just about everything else in the show besides that scene shows Prime's quality just as well, if not better, than Cliff's death.

Dead Metal wrote:The thing that makes TF Prime great is the fact that it's for children, but instead going the G1 route and treating it's viewer ship like idiots it takes itself and its viewers serious. It doesn't talk down to its audience. Sure it has it's moments where it kinda cheats, but for the most part it doesn't.

It's great because it goes the Batman TAS route by being something that can be watched by both children and adults alike, without anyone feeling stupid doing so. It also has the quality to back that up.

And I agree with this.

Dead Metal wrote:It's realistic in the way it presents its premise. It also has self respect and respect for its characters. IN TF Prime a death actually means something while in every other TF show all it does is make the audience count the episodes till it's reversed.

You know as well as anyone that this is not always the case for every other TF show.

Dead Metal wrote:Transformers has always been about a war, and a part of that is that people die, it adds to the show if every now and then someone actually dies due to the war that's going on. Otherwise it would be utterly pointless to have the premise be war.

and I don't mind it happening every now and then. I did previously say, "I'm not saying there should be no death in war fiction. Just that it need not be so heavily promoted in order to have good storytelling," after all.

My original inquiry was geared towards those who want it constantly on levels of arbitrary slaughterings and massacres. Or for those who want characters to die just for the sheer sake of having deaths happen, regardless of their actual worth to the story.

Dead Metal wrote:If they're going for a sequel and kiddy it down, change the feel, change the style, and approach to the point that it's basically a completely different series, then of course it's going to suck. It's going to suck in the sense of being the show it's supposed to be a sequel of.

But all that was said to be changed in this interview were the tone and the look. Orci didn't saying anything about changing the maturity. He said that Prime was adult due to its "clever wit".

Dead Metal wrote:If they thought that Prime's approach was too dark for children, then why the hell did they not change it before?

But they had. There were several episodes in Prime that were significantly lighter in tone than it originally was. Sure, it would get dark again in some places, but it would switch back to the lighter tone as well.

I'm fairly certain that when Orci mentioned the "too dark" mature of Prime, he was referring to those parts that were indeed quite dark, rather than everything of it including the lighthearted, comedic-toned episodes. If the new series is, perhaps, on the same level as the lighter Prime episodes, then I see no reason to fret.

Dead Metal wrote:They even went so far as to announce that Aligned will be here to stay for at least the next 10 years (back then, now it's still 6) of Transformers. And they've been working on that for at least the time of ROTF.

IIRC, I think it was a bit earlier, around 2007, that they first started working on it.

Dead Metal wrote:So this whole making it kiddy is a little weird, taking into mind the effort they put into this new direction and image. I mean what's the point then? They could just as well go back to importing crappy Anime shows by third parties.

Again, I don't see where Orci said they would be making it (what is derogatorily referred to as) "kiddy".

People here were flipping out screaming that the new series would be made for babies, when nothing in this article indicates such. If anything, given the quality of entertainment this group has produced, it sounds like it'll be on the tone of Beast Wars, and I fail to see how that would be a bad thing.

Sabrblade wrote:I honestly question if anyone would think so highly of this show if it had been made with the animation, art style, and (English) musical score of the Robots in Disguise cartoon. Imagine it, same writing quality, same acting quality, same story and characters, same everything... except for it being in 2D cel-shaded anime animation and scored by Saban. Would it still be as loved in that case, or would its loss of prettiness shy people away?

In other words, the cake would be the same, but the icing would be vanilla instead of double chocolate fudge with sprinkles and strawberries.

The point is, that a cartoon is about more than just the script and the acting. The show is only going to be as strong as its weakest link, and as such all of it needs to be of top quality. I for one think the 3D animation paid off very well, allowing for both fight scenes and simple conversations to be a lot more expressive, exciting, and natural. Little touches like, say, starscream's mood being reflected by the angles of his wings were what put it just that cut above the rest, in my opinion.
And the score I felt was also perfect. The theme was catchy but also managed to sum up the intensity, the epicness of transformers.

ArmadaPrime wrote:The point is, that a cartoon is about more than just the script and the acting. The show is only going to be as strong as its weakest link, and as such all of it needs to be of top quality.

True, but those are key factors in the matter. For instance, many decried the look and animation of Animated, but praised its acting and storytelling, which help with over many fans and put the show among their top favorites.

ArmadaPrime wrote:I for one think the 3D animation paid off very well, allowing for both fight scenes and simple conversations to be a lot more expressive, exciting, and natural. Little touches like, say, starscream's mood being reflected by the angles of his wings were what put it just that cut above the rest, in my opinion.

Would hand-drawn animation not also be able to express these little bits as well? They aren't exactly something that can only be done with CG.

ArmadaPrime wrote:And the score I felt was also perfect. The theme was catchy but also managed to sum up the intensity, the epicness of transformers.

And would you still find the show as entertaining if the score was less on the "epic orchestra" side and more on the "action-y heavy metal rock and roll" side?