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ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby First Gen » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:41 pm

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Hector wrote:Reading these comments makes me sad :( If this movie didn't please fans then what will? Seriously! What do you nay-sayers want??
I thought that it was an awesome flick! There were so many satisfying G1 tidbits! Devastator, Soundwave (voiced by Welker himself!), Ravage, Energon, Pretenders, the first 13 cybertronians, a super-bad dude from an obscure cancelled comic series (awesome!) and even the Matrix of Leadership itself! Complete with a near death revelation!


Is it too much to ask for a story thats continuous? One that not only follows up on the first film but also compliments it? And yeah, I was super stoked to hear Welker's "Dr. Claw" as Soundwave. That was pretty sweet. :roll:

Shadowman wrote:So...Now I'm confused, they're prequels, but anything that happens can't be used as an argument? I don't understand.


Well, I stated before the only true comparison is Vadar and the Emperor with Luke Skywalker and the reasoning behind it above. Please re read that so you understand what I mean.

Shadowman wrote:Isn't that how they've always done Unicron?


Like I told Hector, is it too much to ask for a cohesive story? Really? We're paying the money, we're making it historic, don't we deserve better?

I reiterate, the action was great, the story atrocious.
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Burn » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:45 pm

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These sales figures just confirm one thing to me however, some people set their expectations far too high to the point they simply couldn't sit back and enjoy a movie.
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby SamYarbrough77 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:48 pm

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but burn, your the anti troll too, it essentially makes you a troll your self
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Burn » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:50 pm

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
Please tell me how i'm the "anti-troll"?

I've said I liked the movie and moved on. I've hardly joined in any discussion on the movie in fact. Most of the time i've been reiterating the Mod stance and that's for people to respect the opinions of others.

And any time I have joined in the discussion i've made sure i've had something different to say each time and that it related to the topic at hand, not the whole "teh movie is teh suXXorz" that some people like to take from thread to thread.
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Shadowman » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:51 pm

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First Gen wrote:
Shadowman wrote:So...Now I'm confused, they're prequels, but anything that happens can't be used as an argument? I don't understand.


Well, I stated before the only true comparison is Vadar and the Emperor with Luke Skywalker and the reasoning behind it above. Please re read that so you understand what I mean.


But it still doesn't make sense. The Dooku-Sidious/Megatron-Fallen comparison actually works, but the "only true comparison" doesn't. Why don't the prequel movies count?
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby First Gen » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:04 pm

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Shadowman wrote:
First Gen wrote:
Shadowman wrote:So...Now I'm confused, they're prequels, but anything that happens can't be used as an argument? I don't understand.


Well, I stated before the only true comparison is Vadar and the Emperor with Luke Skywalker and the reasoning behind it above. Please re read that so you understand what I mean.


But it still doesn't make sense. The Dooku-Sidious/Megatron-Fallen comparison actually works, but the "only true comparison" doesn't. Why don't the prequel movies count?


Ok, let me break this down for you:

Fallen equals Emperor, Ultimate leader (apparently) with full control of the Decepticon Empire.

Megatron equals Vadar (again, apparently) who everyone's (Decepticons, that is) scared crapless of and worships.

Prime equals Luke Skywalker being the last Prime (Jedi) and the only thing that stands in the way of the Fallen (The Emperor) of having complete domination of the Universe (Empire). Luke was the only person who could possibly stop the Emperor and the Fallen clearly stated that only a Prime could defeat him.

Now, what don't you get?
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Baha08 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:12 pm

First Gen wrote:Okay, if we're gonna bring up Star Wars then you need to disregard Episodes 1, 2 and 3 because they were all prequels. Any RELEVANT comparison would be Vadar and the Emperor when it comes to Megs and the Fallen, and if you use that you're wrong. Why? Cause the Emperor was kicking Luke Skywalker's ass, the only one that posed a threat to him being the last Jedi, like Prime was the last Prime, and it took Vadar turning on him for Luke not to die.

Hey if you liked it, good for you, I'm glad you enjoyed it and that you really didn't care about the story. But when TF3 comes around and they just throw Unicron at you without rhyme or reason using the "Oh it predates us" excuse, then remember I told you so.


Prequels or not, the said comparisons work. Because lets face the facts here. There will always be someone who is going to be above you until a certain point. Sidious still made Darth do all the dirty work and only attacked Luke because he refused the dark side. This time in Transformers Megatron was just another leader and his boss was the Fallen. It could have been Unicron (Which by the way is the biggest random plot ever that had no real pupose or backstory until later on). But it's common to see that sort of plot device now.

I mean we are talking about Transformers. They didn't get a plot in the US until Beast Wars came along. I mean even BW Megatron had someone above him before he went rogue. Shoot G1 Megatron was constructed by the Constructicons for crying out loud.
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Shadowman » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:18 pm

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First Gen wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
First Gen wrote:
Shadowman wrote:So...Now I'm confused, they're prequels, but anything that happens can't be used as an argument? I don't understand.


Well, I stated before the only true comparison is Vadar and the Emperor with Luke Skywalker and the reasoning behind it above. Please re read that so you understand what I mean.


But it still doesn't make sense. The Dooku-Sidious/Megatron-Fallen comparison actually works, but the "only true comparison" doesn't. Why don't the prequel movies count?


Ok, let me break this down for you:

Fallen equals Emperor, Ultimate leader (apparently) with full control of the Decepticon Empire.

Megatron equals Vadar (again, apparently) who everyone's (Decepticons, that is) scared crapless of and worships.

Prime equals Luke Skywalker being the last Prime (Jedi) and the only thing that stands in the way of the Fallen (The Emperor) of having complete domination of the Universe (Empire). Luke was the only person who could possibly stop the Emperor and the Fallen clearly stated that only a Prime could defeat him.

Now, what don't you get?


While I'll admit that the first two parts are pretty good (Although interchangeable with the Dooku-Sidious comparison, Megatron ruled the Decepticons, he wasn't just a mean scary face) you might want to watch Return of the Jedi again, because that last part is all wrong; Luke was busy writhing on the floor when Vader killed Sidious. And even if Vader hadn't killed Sidious, they would have both died when the Death Star blew up moments later, thanks to Lando.

And what I didn't "get" was how the prequels are not relevant.
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby First Gen » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:33 pm

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Shadowman wrote:While I'll admit that the first two parts are pretty good (Although interchangeable with the Dooku-Sidious comparison, Megatron ruled the Decepticons, he wasn't just a mean scary face) you might want to watch Return of the Jedi again, because that last part is all wrong; Luke was busy writhing on the floor when Vader killed Sidious. And even if Vader hadn't killed Sidious, they would have both died when the Death Star blew up moments later, thanks to Lando.

And what I didn't "get" was how the prequels are not relevant.


You just proved my whole argument, yes Luke was writhing on the floor and yes Vadar killed him but that doesn't change the fact that Luke was the Emperor's biggest threat, the only one that could kill him, and essentially Luke did cause he made his father realize he still loved his son and that the dark side was not his master. The fear of the Emperor was realized cause the one thing that could destroy him did.

And really, you're gonna bring up Lando blowing up the Death Star? Like there was no way for them to get out in time? C'mon.
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby OmegaConvoy117 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:42 pm

This movie was effing EPIC!!!!!! but like every movie it had its ups and its downs, this movie only had a few downs in my opinion, such as old characters didnt get much screen time and new characters barely did too and wasnt much character development, Megatron's resurrection and Fallen vs. Prime was also too fast, and worse all the constructicons didnt get much screenin either or Jolt. but in the end, this movie was truly amazing and blew the first one out of cybertron. and everything i expected from this movie, it happened and wasnt dissapointed at all
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Shadowman » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:43 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
But you still haven't answered my question: How are the prequel movies irrelevant?
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby First Gen » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:53 pm

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Shadowman wrote:But you still haven't answered my question: How are the prequel movies irrelevant?



Shadowman, seriously, you're like one of the most intelligent posters on Seibertron.com and you're asking me this?

Was it ever stated with the Douku/Sid combo that only one threat was ever posed to Sid?
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Mommobot76 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:57 pm

I like this part of the article where it states the point of the movie is to entertain. Why can't movies just be for fun? All the people who have seen the movie say the same thing "I want to see it again and again!" and always "I heard it's getting bad reviews" oh well...I love the movie and I think we should all just relax and enjoy it as well. :APPLAUSE:
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Shadowman » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:04 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
First Gen wrote:Was it ever stated with the Douku/Sid combo that only one threat was ever posed to Sid?


Yes. From Yoda: "Fully defeated by just anyone, the dark side cannot be, but only by the Chosen One. And who might be this Jedi? Know I do not, but not yet born is he or she. This much, sense I can. A vessel of pure Force the Chosen One will be, more powerful than any Jedi in history." George Lucas also admitted that Anakin really was the Chosen One. Luke wasn't the threat to Sidious, Vader was, Luke was only the catalyst.
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby SamYarbrough77 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:07 pm

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maybe you 2 should go talk on a star wars forum
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Megatron Wolf » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:07 pm

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No one listens to critics thats why. these days its all word of mouth and what ever people say on their blogs. The day of the critic is long gone and they are an extinct species. Only reasons why this movie is doing well is A) its a summer action movie,B) People have nothing better to do, C) explosions sell, D) Megan Fox in slow motion could sell a half eaten rotten burger with rat crap on top. ROTF is better then the first one ill give it that, but not by much. Im sure if i had the ability to shut off my brain id probably think it was a great movie to but i cant do that. Just trying to figure out how these damn transformations make any sense makes me want to hit my head against the wall. Not only that but, to much crap was thrown in, it was to damn long, humans ruin it....again, and bay cant wright a decent story to save his life. He has a great directing and visual style but thats about it. He could've done so much here and he really dropped the ball. He could've made a great action movie and a great TF continuity but he went the easy way and made a movie for the masses. And thats why i hate him & this franchise. When the third one comes out im not seeing it. Ill wait until its up on the net for free then ill decide if its worth my time and money to see in the theater. With this track record i doubt it. (Sorry for the long post/rant)
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby First Gen » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:20 pm

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Shadowman wrote:
First Gen wrote:Was it ever stated with the Douku/Sid combo that only one threat was ever posed to Sid?


Yes. From Yoda: "Fully defeated by just anyone, the dark side cannot be, but only by the Chosen One. And who might be this Jedi? Know I do not, but not yet born is he or she. This much, sense I can. A vessel of pure Force the Chosen One will be, more powerful than any Jedi in history." George Lucas also admitted that Anakin really was the Chosen One. Luke wasn't the threat to Sidious, Vader was, Luke was only the catalyst.


Um, okay. Episode 1 right? When Anakin was a kid slave that was originally thought to be too old to begin Jedi training? The whole time they were referring to Luke, you know this cause it was a prequel, regardless of what Lucas said after the fact.

Like I said, the Douku/Sid combo never faced the real threat. Not to mention the fact that Douku couldn't beat Yoda despite his advanced age.
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby SoulReaverprime » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:39 pm

Ok, for the whole "Megatron is the Fallen's bitch thing", take this little recipe and see how it works.

Substitute the Fallen with Unicron
Replace Megatron with Galvatron
Add in the whole "I can eat planets but I'm scared to go after a little glowy thing the size of a large air conditioner myself"
And throw in a dash of "hey, it worked for us back in '86"
And you have your little "evil guys barking order and backstabbing" cake.

If you really think about it, it's all but the same thing. Megs/Galvatron want power and the universe in their hand, while they, for one reason or another, have to answer to a higher power all while trying to figure out a way to get the upper hand on said higher power.
Besides, if you wanted to do justice to the Fallen's source material, you'd have to write in Unicron, since the Fallen himself was basically an uber badass who was also Unicron's bitch.
Move on with your lives. :roll:
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Shadowman » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:43 pm

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First Gen wrote:regardless of what Lucas said after the fact.


You can argue that all you want, but in terms of Star Wars, what Lucas says, goes, and he said Vader WAS the Chosen One, who was meant to bring balance to the Force.

Although Palpatine died on Byss, when Han Solo shot him in the back.
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby wingdarkness » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:47 pm

Megatron Wolf wrote:No one listens to critics thats why. these days its all word of mouth and what ever people say on their blogs. The day of the critic is long gone and they are an extinct species. Only reasons why this movie is doing well is A) its a summer action movie,B) People have nothing better to do, C) explosions sell, D) Megan Fox in slow motion could sell a half eaten rotten burger with rat crap on top. ROTF is better then the first one ill give it that, but not by much. Im sure if i had the ability to shut off my brain id probably think it was a great movie to but i cant do that. Just trying to figure out how these damn transformations make any sense makes me want to hit my head against the wall. Not only that but, to much crap was thrown in, it was to damn long, humans ruin it....again, and bay cant wright a decent story to save his life. He has a great directing and visual style but thats about it. He could've done so much here and he really dropped the ball. He could've made a great action movie and a great TF continuity but he went the easy way and made a movie for the masses. And thats why i hate him & this franchise. When the third one comes out im not seeing it. Ill wait until its up on the net for free then ill decide if its worth my time and money to see in the theater. With this track record i doubt it. (Sorry for the long post/rant)


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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Shadowman » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:51 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
wingdarkness wrote:in the end I'll always be proud of being true to Transformers and to the fanbase that only wants something with coherency to go along with cool action...


And one day, maybe you'll actually get to see a TF series like that.
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Primus C-00 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:05 pm

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HECTOR wrote:Reading these comments makes me sad :( If this movie didn't please fans then what will? Seriously! What do you nay-sayers want??
I thought that it was an awesome flick! There were so many satisfying G1 tidbits! Devastator, Soundwave (voiced by Welker himself!), Ravage, Energon, Pretenders, the first 13 cybertronians, a super-bad dude from an obscure cancelled comic series (awesome!) and even the Matrix of Leadership itself! Complete with a near death revelation!

A lotta people seem upset over Megatron's association with the Fallen. The IDW prequel comics shed a lot of light on that but yeah the best way to describe it is it's like Darth Vader and the Emperor. He's still No. 1 but there's also an older bad guy who can offer him a lotta power, and he kinda owes him for saving his life.

Just an overall great time. Prime's death had me on the edge of my seat saying 'what? . . .' You know you were too! Admit it! If Optimus Prime dying doesn't make you sad then you don't deserve to be called a fan.


The first film pleased me immensely, so surely this film should've built on that and improved, not forsaken the best bits or rehashed quite possibly the worst elements of the first.

As I have stated before I had little or no expectations when I walked into the cinema at midnight, all those weeks ago, and that is why it hurt so much when I walked out nearly three hours later.

Again, as stated before, clusterbombing:

G1 tidbits


Does not equal narrative or characterisation. Devastator (and the Constructicons) really didn't do very much, if anything they were just there for another Military Money Shot. Soundwave, again, did very little except have tentacle sex with satellites and sound like Dr. Claw. Ravage was ok, but essentially a poor imitation of Frenzy, and a contrivance. Alice/Pretender again was ok, reminded me of an ex, but essentially a contrivance.

At least Alice and Ravage had the fortune to appear in the first third of the film where plot and characterisation stil made a vague appearance

The whole 13/Fallen/Megatron thing, ultimately, makes no sense. Furthermore why should I go out and spend £10-£14 just for it to make sense? Yes the first film had prequel comics, but they added to the flavour of the film, they weren't essential to having the film make sense. If the Megatron/Fallen dynamic is as everyone states it is, very Star Wars, then that my friends is weak.

The Matrix of Leadership? Why?

Ok, so the animated incarnation was essentially a contrivance in itself as well, but at least that was well written and well executed.

Quite frankly Prime's death couldn't've interested me any less. Firstly because it happens all the time, secondly Prime had changed from noble almost fearful scholar into soulless killing machine and thirdly because lugging around the corpse pretty much gives away the fact he'll return,.

At least in the animated series we had to wait for a spectacular return.

I'll tell you what the first film had that this didn't. Humility, and respect. Making the first film I dare say the fans figured deeply in what was produced, this time around someone *cough* Bay *cough* knew they had a cash cow franchise on their hands and could pretty much do whatever they want.

Anyway, I'm done with Revenge of the Fail-Line, because that is what, IMHO, it is. Epic Fail. Instead I shall leave those of you with more than one brain cell and critical faculties with something thought provoking from Nietzsche:

Where solitude endeth, there beginneth the market-place; and where the market-place beginneth, there beginneth also the noise of the great actors, and the buzzing of the poison-flies.

In the world even the best things are worthless without those who represent them: those representers, the people call great men.

Little, do the people understand what is great—that is to say, the creating agency. But they have a taste for all representers and actors of great things.

http://www.geocities.com/thenietzschechannel/zarapt1.htm#flies

Goodnight.

I-)
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby wingdarkness » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:07 pm

Shadowman wrote:
wingdarkness wrote:in the end I'll always be proud of being true to Transformers and to the fanbase that only wants something with coherency to go along with cool action...


And one day, maybe you'll actually get to see a TF series like that.

Oh trust me I got all the G1 stuff just 1 click away and I've seen more coherency and stuff that makes decent sense there than I'll ever see on the silver screen (Although those with fuzzy memories will always try to distort, good thing I'm not one of those people^^)...
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Primus C-00 » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:08 pm

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Shadowman wrote:
wingdarkness wrote:in the end I'll always be proud of being true to Transformers and to the fanbase that only wants something with coherency to go along with cool action...


And one day, maybe you'll actually get to see a TF series like that.


Wasn't that Animated? Or prior to that Beast Wars, particularly everything including and after The Agenda?

:grin:
He's got some pretty far-out powers to go along with them, too, including teleportation, the projection of trippy telepathic visions and illusions, and the ability to groove on the language of 98% of all known species. To uses his powers to the fullest, though, he's gotta be feelin' good vibrations; bad karma can seriously harsh his mellow, y'know?
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Re: ROTF Box Office Sales not deterred by Movie Critic Reviews

Postby Shadowman » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:36 pm

Motto: "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I sure as hell won't."
wingdarkness wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
wingdarkness wrote:in the end I'll always be proud of being true to Transformers and to the fanbase that only wants something with coherency to go along with cool action...


And one day, maybe you'll actually get to see a TF series like that.

Oh trust me I got all the G1 stuff just 1 click away and I've seen more coherency and stuff that makes decent sense there than I'll ever see on the silver screen (Although those with fuzzy memories will always try to distort, good thing I'm not one of those people^^)...


Wait wait wait...G1 had good storytelling an action? I'm talking about the original series of Transformers, what are you talking about?

Primus C-00 wrote:Wasn't that Animated? Or prior to that Beast Wars, particularly everything including and after The Agenda?

:grin:


Yes and Yes. Beast Machines had a good story, but they seriously screwed up with characterization. (Turning Primal into a hippie, Silverbolt into an emo, Cheetor into the embodiment of angst, etc.) And while the movies have fantastic action, I'll admit that they aren't exactly Shakespeare when it comes to storytelling. (Luckily, my brain includes an on/off switch for just such an occasion, also for Die Hard, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, and Transformers in general)
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