Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

MINDVVIPE wrote:I agree with you (except I don't care about it being not Hastek to be in my collection), because you misunderstood what I meant about demanding. I don't mean writing letters to Hastek complaining theres no 3 mode Springer, hehe. I simply meant, with the general fan "DEMAND" for a good springer, out came a 3rd party Springer.

Part misunderstanding, part meaning it a different way myself.

When I said demand, i'm talking about a number of forum posts over the years from various posters who have said "we want this figure!!!"

I think the other thing to with my collecting habits is i'm just thankful to have what I have. I have a G1 Springer, therefore why do I need a "better" one? That's how I look at it as well.

Blackstreak wrote:Aw, are the big-wig companies getting ass-hurt over 3rd party customs? Then maybe they should produce better stuff.

The best stuff they've spent thousands producing is being blatantly copied and sold at treble the price of what their products are retailing for. They're trying to cater for fans without flooding the market with 3-4 versions of the same mould at once. Sure there are fans that want a set of 3 seekers on pegs at once but for kids and parents looking at the same toy in all but colour they will not likely buy more than one.

Let me put real legal analysis on this. I could write a long article on Intellectual Property, what they can and cannot do, and why KO-Toys even exist, but it basically boils down to a conflict of laws issue, wherein certain countries have no IP rights and the only way to attack these products is via distribution channels, which Takara is in fact doing. Good luck serving and enforcing an injunction of a KO maker in China. If anyone is interested, I could draft a memorandum in my extremely limited free time, and in fact may do for publication purposes anyway.

If old collectors like "us" aren't really Hasbro/TakTom's target, then why does it matter to them that we spend our money with companies that do target us? I don't know about you, but I like it when a business opens its doors to my suggestions and tastes. I love having some hand in the design aesthetic of what I end up buying. Being a company man may be some collectors' choice. I would just prefer that there continues to be choices. If it were up to some, we'd all be waiting on pins and needles for DOTM offerings. I call shenanegans on that perspective, and will continue to support the alternative.

I can guarantee that the main reason all of this came about is because of the runaway success of City Commander. After that was when the 3rd party explosion happened.

Going onto topic, I'm going to tip my hat to Takara in this instance. I'm fine with FansProject because of the extremes they take to be different. Their designs do homage stuff, but it's so radically different from other 3rd party goods that it doesn't matter.

Igear is definitely not one of my favorites. Just because looking at them screams infringement. I actually do take serious issue with them KO'ing the MP Starscream and then modifying it. The general body used is enough of a case for Takara.

CrazyDevy can go die in a fire for all I care. Seriously. At $30 a part, I have no motivation to bother with their crap when I can put that money towards gaps in my collection.

Takara is really just doing what they can to protect what they and Hasbro have spent the better part of 27 years making.

Still though, they should hire the guys in FansProject and have them do the special collectors edition stuff. That would not only drive cost down, but it would make them the equivalent of G-System or other resin add-on kits for Gundam. Basically like how Bandai has set it up.

Assuming that this rumor is true - I don't think it's going to impact our ability to purchase 3rd party stuff.

robofreak wrote:Still though, they should hire the guys in FansProject and have them do the special collectors edition stuff. That would not only drive cost down, but it would make them the equivalent of G-System or other resin add-on kits for Gundam. Basically like how Bandai has set it up.

I would love to see that. A specialist range, like Games Workshop and Forge World.



I'm pretty surprised at some comments in this thread. I think the 3rd part bubble these last few years has 'normalized' these type of KOs, and some people seem to think that everyone and their dog has the right to blatantly infringe on Hasbro/TT's property. I honestly shocked nothing has been done soon than this.

Unlike just about everybody I don't think this is Igear's fault. Yeah, they copied the MP molds ... many molds are KOed all the time. I tend tot hink it's because the 3rd party market has shifted from add-ons to transforming robots based on HasTak's Transformers characters.

You can tout FP's "dissimilarity" to Transformers all you like (saying this in general not to any one person), but the whole reason FP is so popular is because their products function as a "Classics" representation of any given character. This is true for all the 3rd party products that actually transform. That's what makes them cool, but it's inevetable that it draws the wrath of Takara.

On the TFW boards they cited a guy who got sued by Bandi (or some high profile corperation) for selling ONE custom figure that he made himself. One. We've been sitting pretty in comparison.

I fully support the 3rd party guys and even CMS to a point, but I don't like to fool myself about what I'm buying. I just hope this doesn't actually affect the 3rd party guy's distribution. And I especially hope it doesn't affect the production of that Devestator!

As long as My beloved Fansproject remains un-harmed all will be well in the universe. I would lose my marbles if they tried anything on them I never liked igers stuff anyway..Just leave Fp alone and no one will get hurt

Jesterhead wrote:I'm pretty surprised at some comments in this thread. I think the 3rd part bubble these last few years has 'normalized' these type of KOs, and some people seem to think that everyone and their dog has the right to blatantly infringe on Hasbro/TT's property. I honestly shocked nothing has been done soon than this.

3rd party products and KOs are not the same thing. 3rd parties like Fansproject don't rip off products that Takara spent a lot of money developing, selling the same thing [occasionally with minor changes] along side Takaras product.

LiKwid wrote:As long as My beloved Fansproject remains un-harmed all will be well in the universe. I would lose my marbles if they tried anything on them I never liked igers stuff anyway..Just leave Fp alone and no one will get hurt

You realize that this is a cancellation of preorders, right? FP doesn't have any of those. Had they had preorders available, I'm sure they'd have been cancelled as well.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

LiKwid wrote:As long as My beloved Fansproject remains un-harmed all will be well in the universe. I would lose my marbles if they tried anything on them I never liked igers stuff anyway..Just leave Fp alone and no one will get hurt

You realize that this is a cancellation of preorders, right? FP doesn't have any of those. Had they had preorders available, I'm sure they'd have been cancelled as well.

Flameblast and Warcry ring a bell?

amcgrath929 wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

LiKwid wrote:As long as My beloved Fansproject remains un-harmed all will be well in the universe. I would lose my marbles if they tried anything on them I never liked igers stuff anyway..Just leave Fp alone and no one will get hurt

You realize that this is a cancellation of preorders, right? FP doesn't have any of those. Had they had preorders available, I'm sure they'd have been cancelled as well.

Flameblast and Warcry ring a bell?

It's probably too late to cancel those orders by now. Or something.

Does anyone have a link to this store we're talking about? It'd be nice to see what 3rd party products are left after the purge. If FP is still there, then maybe you guys are right and FP is doing something right. Or maybe they got lucky. Or maybe it's too late to cancel it.

The Legend wrote:3rd party products and KOs are not the same thing. 3rd parties like Fansproject don't rip off products that Takara spent a lot of money developing, selling the same thing [occasionally with minor changes] along side Takaras product.

While they don't use the physical molds, they are still using Hasbro/TTs property.

ou know what? I answered my own question.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... .google.ca
This is the google cache of the non-TF TF section of the store.

http://www.redmercury.co.jp/shop/02tran ... eyword=NON

This is what's there now. I haven't checked all the links, but it seems like everything's gone. Including FP stuff.

I have close to 400 True Takara/Hasbro/Tomy Transformers. I just happen to be 10 years old when they were released in the U.S. and have been an avid fan since. I wonder how may Transformers they sold just because a 3rd party company sold some add on parts, Ive spent at least $500 last year alone for that reason only, on bots I would have passed up otherwise because of the lack of imagination on the designers part at Takara. If you want to beat them Takara, BUILD BETTER BOTS! We want bots that look like the artwork we remember, you know, the cartoon {30 minute commercial} to sell us you plastic!
I dont condone exact ripoffs of Takara's rights, but if 3rd parties are sued for infringement because they make add ons you will lose me and many others like me. Why dont car company's sue bodykit and accesories makers? Because it makes them money.....Wake Up!

The only reason i got the battle in space set is so i could have a rodimus for the protector armor! and if they reissued prime and bruticus i'd get them for the fansproject stuff! Without fansproject add on's its a no go! I also got ironhide encore for the igear add on!

I wanna point out that Takara isn't suing anybody. They've asked this retailer to stop carrying the 3rd party products and they have complied.

Would you please stop mr 3rd party, sure Takara no problem throwing all this hard earned cash we invested away, get real ..."ask" in big boy words means "stop or we will file suit"

Seibertron wrote:

Rated X wrote:Takara is basically saying they want to be the only player in the game. It don’t work that way. Lebron cant win alone. Wade gotta hit a few shots.Bosh gotta hit a few shots. Maybe all the companies that make transformable robots can never work as a team, but their figures that sit on my shelf make a great team together side by side.

That is exactly what they're saying. They have every right to say that they want to be the only player in the game with these products because it's their intellectual property that they created. They have an right to protect their brand, their products and their intellectual ideas. These 3rd party companies aren't making generic transforming robot toys. They're making products that directly homage the characters Hasbro and Takara Tomy own/create/make. We wouldn't have as great of an interest in these 3rd party products if they didn't resemble Transformers characters.

If Hasbro doesn't want to make a Springer figure in the Classics style to fill a "whole in our collection(s)", then that's up to them to decide which products they want to bring to the market. It should not be up to 3rd party companies to determine which characters should be brought to the market.

Hey Ryan,

You know I got nothing but respect for you my friend, but I bet you own a Fansproject Defender. If you do than you are just like me, tired of waiting for Hasbro/Takara to fill that gap in your classics collection. I’m not saying you didn’t believe in Hasbro/Takara would fill that void, but after Botcon and Target Springer you saw that Fansproject Defender does a better job of filling that void. I feel the same way. And anybody who does not is still holding out, waiting for that “official” version. I hope they got plenty of time on their hands…

Jesterhead wrote:

The Legend wrote:3rd party products and KOs are not the same thing. 3rd parties like Fansproject don't rip off products that Takara spent a lot of money developing, selling the same thing [occasionally with minor changes] along side Takaras product.

While they don't use the physical molds, they are still using Hasbro/TTs property.

Kinda like how HasTak uses the IP of different car companies, when they sell toy robots that transform into a not-quite VW Beetle, not-quite Lamborghinis, etc.

But Takara does have a right to protect their intellectual property, right? I mean, you agree that that do, don't you? Everyone?

Sure it sucks for the 3rd party guys, and it sucks for us fans who can afford to splurge on the stuff, but Takara isn't wrong to want to protect their property.

As it stands even Reprolabels is gone from that store. Since I have little worry Reprolabels will come under attack over here, it's a brighter picture for us. But maybe not so bright for the 3rd party dudes who may depend on Japanese sales.

MagnusPrimal wrote:

Jesterhead wrote:

The Legend wrote:3rd party products and KOs are not the same thing. 3rd parties like Fansproject don't rip off products that Takara spent a lot of money developing, selling the same thing [occasionally with minor changes] along side Takaras product.

While they don't use the physical molds, they are still using Hasbro/TTs property.

Kinda like how HasTak uses the IP of different car companies, when they sell toy robots that transform into a not-quite VW Beetle, not-quite Lamborghinis, etc.

If Hasbro made automobiles, then I would agree with you. But they do not.

Your comparison is apples and oranges.

In a way, it's understandable, with some third party items getting too close to infringement rights. But why do they care? I don't think third party toys take sales away from the real transformers line, hell some of them boost the sales. Third party companies cater to the collector, which I assume would be less than a quarter of the target audience of Hasbro and Takara.

Jesterhead wrote:

MagnusPrimal wrote:

Jesterhead wrote:

The Legend wrote:3rd party products and KOs are not the same thing. 3rd parties like Fansproject don't rip off products that Takara spent a lot of money developing, selling the same thing [occasionally with minor changes] along side Takaras product.

While they don't use the physical molds, they are still using Hasbro/TTs property.

Kinda like how HasTak uses the IP of different car companies, when they sell toy robots that transform into a not-quite VW Beetle, not-quite Lamborghinis, etc.

If Hasbro made automobiles, then I would agree with you. But they do not.

Your comparison is apples and oranges.

No, it's not. It's the (arguable) theft of IP and the (arguable) theft of IP.
I don't see how the specifics involved matter in regards to the use of another company's IP without their permission.