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the 5 g1 seekers excluding starscream (skywarp, thundercracker, dirge thrust and ramjet) against 5 sweeps. scourge isnt involved, and the fight starts in the air but can move to ground level or anywhere else after. the sweeps are unicrons creations, designed to be the perfect hunter/killer pack, and the seekers are megatron elite air superiority group. who takes it?

Seekers.

The sweeps may be created by Unicron to be the perfect hunter pack. But seriously, the get thrashed by just about every character they try to hunt down.

The Seekers on the other hand has some cool abilities and (a bit) competence^^

let me play devil's advocate here...

Let's go with movie sweeps that took out UltraMagnus.

They were currently an extention of Unicron's will, much like Galvatron, Cyclonus and Scourge were then. With both skywarp and thundercracker in the wreckage used to create them, why wouldn't they be able to compete with there relic counterparts?

In a war, personality isn't everything. Just look at the waves bros. *key mario music*

The pack mentality may prove an advatage for the Sweeps were the Seeker's leader would remain uncertain.

Enigma Blackdragon wrote:Seekers.

The sweeps may be created by Unicron to be the perfect hunter pack. But seriously, the get thrashed by just about every character they try to hunt down.

The Seekers on the other hand has some cool abilities and (a bit) competence^^

Yes.

I can see your point, but I still feel that the original seekers and coneheads have an advantage.

Skywarp can teleport
Dirge has fearinducing engine sounds (I guess he sounds like galvatron to the sweeps)
Ramjet can probably take mo damage than any sweep
Thrust... well, I don't really know that much about him ^^
and Thundercracker can probably do something with his sonic booms as well ^^

Apart from some abilities the sweeps lack, they also have years of experience fighting autobots.

The sweeps don't, I don't think that the kept memories or personality after the reformating. (Cyclonus and scourge never shows any sign of who they where before as far as i know)

and even if they are "controlled" by unicron and empowered by him... what does he know of dogfights ^^


No I'd go for the Seekers ^^

Definitely the Seekers. They have experience and special abilities. The Sweeps are n00bs compared to the Seekers.

Enigma Blackdragon wrote:I can see your point, but I still feel that the original seekers and coneheads have an advantage.

Skywarp can teleport
Dirge has fearinducing engine sounds (I guess he sounds like galvatron to the sweeps)
Ramjet can probably take mo damage than any sweep
Thrust... well, I don't really know that much about him ^^
and Thundercracker can probably do something with his sonic booms as well ^^

Apart from some abilities the sweeps lack, they also have years of experience fighting autobots.

The sweeps don't, I don't think that the kept memories or personality after the reformating. (Cyclonus and scourge never shows any sign of who they where before as far as i know)

and even if they are "controlled" by unicron and empowered by him... what does he know of dogfights ^^


No I'd go for the Seekers ^^

Oh i completely agree Enigma Blackdragon, well maybe not the dogfights , just thought i'ld try to spark a debate really. I can see reasons for thinking either group could win. Personally I'ld lean toward the seekers too, but the sweeps technically hold an advantage or two.

The added note to the Unicron formated cons never referencing there pre-movie past has always bothered me in potential Megs vs Galvi fights. IMHO the sweeps should lack the experience, but not necessarily the skill.

How far is Scourge above his own pack even I cannot say. So I couldn't really say how one really should fair in a one on one fight. I would think being directly reformated by a TF deity could count as an upgrade from thee initial forms in over all power though. So... how weak are the Insecticons?

Still, as no one has really favored the Sweeps, I think I might do so again...

In many other vs. threads featuring the seekers, Skywarp is considered useless with out proper guidance. Ramjet, while durable, doesn't take orders well or show much consern about taking damage; not any smarter than Skywarp really. Dirge is painted a cowardly control freak; Smart but also depends on fear for his effectiveness. Thrust gets the rap of being a lot of speed and even alot more talk then a fearless warrior; not that durable either. Thundercracker is the most reliable of the group, if his spark wasn't clouded with doubt.

This leads me back to my initial post. "Who would lead these seekers?"

I think i know the strategy I would use, but how do you think this would play out?

I've been thinking the same acctually, they really are lacking a leader there, and as far as Skywarp goes, he NEEDS someone to command him to be effective.

But then again, how would the sweeps stand without Scourge, Cyclonus or Galvatron to direct them?

Both groups are leaderless, but I'd still put my money on the seekers due to experience and skills ^^

I was wondering about sweep leadership too. There pack mentality, almost hive like really, leads me to believe that without a leader they would still work well together towards there goals. It's the only advantage there drone like reactions affords them.

If they had to fight one on one, I would probably give it to the seekers. Still would in this case too. Here is why.

A core squadron can still be comprised of Dirge Thundercracker and Thrust. Dirge is smart enough to lead, unlike Ramjet, Thundercracker is smart enough to listen; with their sound based abilities it seems in there best interests to do so.

Skywarp and Ramjet just need to misdirect the sweep team long enough for the other three to systematically single out the sweeps for termination. Even if Ramjet or Skywarp fall, though harder to kill then the other seekers, the numbers will likely take care of the rest.

thanks for the chat Enigma Blackdragon

Seekers.. Experience and skills...

Sweeps.....

The Seekers are kinda weaker...

Den-O wrote:Sweeps.....

The Seekers are kinda weaker...

doeth my monitor decieve me...

Nay *key horse sound* for Den-O, true believer, hath found will and courage to stand against the tyyyyranical fandom luv for seeker kind. including my own...

The seekers weaker?
Nah, I can't agree on that.
Almost every time we see a Sweep it's because they need some cool explosion, they die like flies :S
The seekers stayed around for up to 3 Seasons at least ^^

And i never really thought of the sweeps as having a hive-mind, I've seen them as drones with very little intelligens. Only about as much as is needed to operat in a pack under a leader.

But the idea is kind of interesting

But I think I'll leave this discussion now, I don't think there's anything more for me to say that haven't allready been said ^^

And thanks to you too AxiomScion, see ya around

Seekers, definitely.

Seeing as how cyclonus is in the mix, I think he could lead the sweeps to victory.

Just a question: How is there are 5 sweeps without Scourge? Only 3 were created by Unicron (including Scourge), the others we saw are probably drones, so the match would be fair if there were 5 seeker drones as opposition.

If it is five-on-five, than Scourge, two additional Sweeps, Cyclonus, and the other Cyclonus-doppelganger character must be involved.

Any of the chances: Sweeps.

there were 3 sweeps that were seen being created directly by unicron, but there were more in he series later on. i think it was in call of the primitives that a sweep identifies itself as "sweep 6" or 7, im not sure.

seeing that nothing really makes it seem like there is any kind of hierarchy between them, other than the fact that they obey scourge leads me to believe that the original few dont have any greater power or intelligence than the others.

people argue that the sweeps might have cloning abilities like the insecticons used to, which i think is probably the most logical explanation, only their cloning powers are upgraded by unicron making the copies permanent (they dont disappear when they die, or when their low on power) , transformable and exactly the same as the original.

but whatever the reason, there are alot of them later on, and none of them really stand out, so for all practical purposes, there are more than two of them (plus scourge).

Scourge has disintegrators. It's likely the Sweeps do too. These would be very dangerous to the Seekers and the landscape too. The Seekers need a quick victory or they'll be atomised.

I think that the Seekers can do it, though. Dirge's fear generator might not work well on the Sweeps. Shocks from Thrust and Thundercracker should knock them about. Ramjet would bring at least one Sweep down. Skywarp would teleport about, placing bombs on Sweeps and then escaping. Regular missiles and gunfire could shoot down any remaining Sweeps. The Seekers would then have to revisit the Sweeps on the ground and finish them off. I expect a few injuries among the Seekers because the Sweeps are well-armed, strong and fast.