The Energon Pub

rad902 wrote:When Prime died, you cried, obviously cuz it was Prime!! Did anyone care for Starscream dyinng that much? Don't think so...

Spider Man had the alter ego of Peter Parker in the movie, who you saw unmasked and could relate to. Similarly, Prime with battle mask, versus, without.

And as for V for Vendetta, the writers did an excellent job in writing lines (very wordy dialogue) that brought out the character, all emphasised by Hugo Weaving. Radically changing the classic dialogue of a character like Prime, to make him emote would be a NO-NO.

And, as I was saying, it is done through overall body language, along with vocal tone, lighting, and many other considerations that affect how the characters present themselves, not simply the face.

meh it's okay

It's disappointing.

Its a movie

i dont care anymore

I agree with Skowl, it's been proven that a character doesn't need a mouth to convey emotion. Darth Vader, C-3PO, the Daleks from Doctor Who (even though they say they have no emotion). I seem to remember reading that parents wanted George Lucas to change the design of C-3PO so that his mouth moved as he talked. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?

And I second the sentiment... why do the characters that should have mouths, do not have mouths? But Prime does?

Seibertron wrote:AMEN SKOWL! The Darth Vader pictures are exactly what I was grasping at with the Marvel references. Darth Vader is the ultimate character with no mouth.

Darth Vader is not a 20-foot robot that turns into a car. It's not all about acting and emotion. Most of the changes are made to be contemporary and, in this case, to aid with suspension of disbelief.

One of the very real threats to this movie is people not being able to take giant robots seriously as characters. You can't use the cartoon movie as an example because it's a cartoon. Cartoons are for children, and children generally suspend their disbelief rather easily. Other characters that are humans in costumes with masks can use their voice and gesticulation because people know it's an actual person in there. Giant CGI robots? That's harder to relate to.

Look how complex they made the eyes (see the poster if you don't remember). By using the eyes, the voice and body language effectively, there's no need to give Prime a mouth.

Maldroth wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

rad902 wrote:Come on guys, Optimus will have a battle mask at some point in the movie! I think that given Op's major role, that we NEED to see full expressive faces i.e full face, without battle mask.

I think with the Battle Mask up all the time, it may not deliver the effect required in all cases...

Boy I sure remember crying when I watched Prime about to die in the animated Transformers movie. You want to see a scene where a character can emote emotion without seeing has face. Spiderman? V for Vendetta?

The other thing with having a faceplace instead of a mouth Prime always seemed more stoic, well at least to me.

The proponents of the movie can fabricate any reason they like no matter how logical but it simply comes down to the designers really not caring about the IP they are using and just doing their idea. Most cases its alright but when you are doing something that does need to look a certain wait to seem like the thing they franchised well...you have to pay some homage to it.

I'd say another reason is because Bay doesn't know how to make the character emote without a mouth. Which isn't to say a better director couldn't... just that Bay can barely get real actors to convey emotion without being all ham-fisted about it and throwing a big musical score in the background, let alone a cgi character being thrown into scenes as a blunt object. It is an action movie, after all.

Seibertron wrote:

Octavious Prime wrote:I agree with most of you that Prime should have just had the faceplate on the whole time, and that many of the designs could of been much better but all I can say is what do you expect?

You guys are doing exactly what they wanted or expected you to do. You're rolling over, giving up ... just accepting crap for what it is instead of defiantly saying "this SHOULD HAVE been better."

What did I expect? Someone to treat the Transformers franchise with as much respect as the Marvel franchise. Look at how true they've stayed to the Marvel characters (minus the Xmen suits which is OK because they kept so many other design elements).

Exactly how could they stay true to a story like transformers with all its variations and complications. We know theres no way mass-shifting would have worked with today's audience. Honestly, with regard to all the other bad decisions, in my opinion Prime's face plate not being onn during the whole movie is on of the smallest things to worry about. Especially considering how many times he actually has had a motuh and that its been made clear that this is not based on the G1 story. By the way, We're not rolling over and giving up, there just isn't **** else we can do.

If they're is any possible way we actual change this movie into exactly what we wanted, let me know and I'll do it (besides assasinating Micheal Bay or seomthing, I'd get in trouble). Until then, I'm not wasting my energy worrying about how good the movie "should of" been. There's lots of things that "should of" happened with alot of movies.
If the movie was exactly like the original series, no one would see it except for the fans and people they forced to come with them.

Also, we need to remember, this isn't Spider-man or X-men, its Transformers (way harder to film successfully), and not every Marvel comic was treated so well when made into a movie (Fantastic Four, Dare Devil, The Punisher).

P.S. Please don't misunderstand me as one who doesn't appreciate Transformers, (I've sweated them since I was 6). It really hurts me to know I got on the wrong side of who ever owns this site, since I use it for all my TF news. I can't help but be exctited to see something that somewhat looks like Optimus Prime on the big screen.

P.P.S. Nelson is a prick. I may not agree with everyone here but its still our right to say whatever is on our minds. whos he to say stop whining? thats the whole point of this forum.

Win some, Loose some. Even though prime wont have a faceplate, I imagine he will be the same prime we know

MYoung23 wrote:Nelson remains a prick to the end

Yes, next time I'll shut up and let you find out til you sit your ass in the theater.

In fact, there was some info that i was going to let the online community know about this week regarding the designs of certain TF characters and the reasons for the designs. But I'll let you find out about it when and if it comes out on DVD.

Maybe some of you guys can handle more surprises from left field come 7/4/7.

1337W422102 wrote:And Paragon, you haven't actually seen the Star Wars films, have you? Because if you did, you would understand that the emotions were conveyed through body language and breathing.

First, next time ask instead of sounding condescending about it.

Second, I've seen them. But you apparently didn't read my entire post. You know, the part where I said it's done more through body language than just the face? It's right at the end if you read the entire thing.

nelson_michaelbay_com wrote:

MYoung23 wrote:Nelson remains a prick to the end

Yes, next time I'll shut up and let you find out til you sit your ass in the theater.

In fact, there was some info that i was going to let the online community know about this week regarding the designs of certain TF characters and the reasons for the designs. But I'll let you find out about it when and if it comes out on DVD.

Maybe some of you guys can handle more surprises from left field come 7/4/7.

Do you realize your attitude isn't really professional? Part of being a professional is to take critisism and doing a massive change to IP you are fooling yourself not to expect fans to be passionate about something they love.

Maldroth wrote:

nelson_michaelbay_com wrote:

MYoung23 wrote:Nelson remains a prick to the end

Yes, next time I'll shut up and let you find out til you sit your ass in the theater.

In fact, there was some info that i was going to let the online community know about this week regarding the designs of certain TF characters and the reasons for the designs. But I'll let you find out about it when and if it comes out on DVD.

Maybe some of you guys can handle more surprises from left field come 7/4/7.

Do you realize your attitude isn't really professional? Part of being a professional is to take critisism and doing a massive change to IP you are fooling yourself not to expect fans to be passionate about something they love.

Calling him a prick isn't criticism, it's a personal insult.

Maldroth wrote:
Do you realize your attitude isn't really professional? Part of being a professional is to take critisism and doing a massive change to IP you are fooling yourself not to expect fans to be passionate about something they love.

I guess professional means to you bending over and taking it up the...I've taken criticism from day one and I don't mind.

I expected people to be passionate while remaining level-headed and courteous from day one.

What I didn't expect was personal insults, death threats to myself and my family, the production team and the crew over something so trivial as a summer blockbuster action film.

I would've understood if this were the Pianist or Schindler's List, but not excused and taken it up the...

Maldroth wrote:Do you realize your attitude isn't really professional? Part of being a professional is to take critisism and doing a massive change to IP you are fooling yourself not to expect fans to be passionate about something they love.

BTW, does it mean that Seibertron's boards mods are viewing poster's IP addresses, tracking and harassing them in the process?

How professional.

nelson_michaelbay_com wrote:I guess professional means to you bending over and taking it up the...I've taken criticism from day one and I don't mind.

I expected people to be passionate while remaining level-headed and courteous from day one.

What I didn't expect was personal insults, death threats to myself and my family, the production team and the crew over something so trivial as a summer blockbuster action film.

I would've understood if this were the Pianist or Schindler's List, but not excused and taken it up the...

Death threats?? Wow. I guess some people just don't realize this whole movie situation isn't that big of a deal (by a longshot).

I agree with everything you said except I wouldn't understand people going to those extremes for ANY film.

About the movie, I'll just say I'm not fond of what I've seen and read so far so I'm just not going to see it. Got no problem with anybody personally over this. Jeesh.

nelson_michaelbay_com wrote:BTW, does it mean that Seibertron's boards mods are viewing poster's IP addresses, tracking and harassing them in the process?

How professional.

Not sure how any of the mods are harassing you by looking at IPs. Mods are SUPPOSED to look at IPs in situations like this. Guess I missed something.

Nelson, there are no personal insults or jives.

We just want the faceplate on at all times.
Don't use the emotive argument cuz Darth Vader didn't have flapping lips.

nelson_michaelbay_com wrote:

Maldroth wrote:Do you realize your attitude isn't really professional? Part of being a professional is to take critisism and doing a massive change to IP you are fooling yourself not to expect fans to be passionate about something they love.

BTW, does it mean that Seibertron's boards mods are viewing poster's IP addresses, tracking and harassing them in the process?

How professional.

all I've said is an observation and wasn't directly threatening you or name calling.

The Paragon of Virtue wrote:

1337W422102 wrote:And Paragon, you haven't actually seen the Star Wars films, have you? Because if you did, you would understand that the emotions were conveyed through body language and breathing.

First, next time ask instead of sounding condescending about it.

Second, I've seen them. But you apparently didn't read my entire post. You know, the part where I said it's done more through body language than just the face? It's right at the end if you read the entire thing.

Sorry, I guess I only read what someone quoted. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Prime having a mouth SUCKS!!! I don't care what any non-Transformers fan says(thats right,NON-TRANSFORMERS FAN!!). Making the bots contemporary or whatever poor excuse is given, to make them completly unrecognizable to their original designs is just stupid. I can't make any connection with updating, and what they look like now, no matter what kind of spin i put on it. Why didn't they make Batman's costume hot pink, so more females would go to see it? All girls love hot pink! Is this the thought process we are dealing with now? I remember bay saying that this movie is going to make the rest of the regular fools see what we think is cool about Transformers. How is that going to be accomplished by someone who doesen't even like Transformers, changing everything we know about them? How does that make sense? It doesent, but i guess dullards don't make sense anyway. Well, i can honestly say, if i don't like this movie after seeing it, i'm going to download the movie, burn lots of copies and give it out to everyone that hasn't seen it yet. F**K YOU HOLLYWOOD!!!! Give us what we want, and you wouldn't have to worry about piracy and the like. American entertainment is filled with talentless bores that only care about making money. Hit them where it hurts. They will have to give in soon, or someone better will be able to take their place. Read more comicbooks, they are far better than movies anyway.

On a side note, what is this "cartoons are for kids" brainless babble? It's a stupid dullard American sentiment that is long-outdated and pointless. Want proof? I have the Voltron Blue Lion boxed set, and in the extras behind the scenes interviews with the company who bought the rights to Go-Lion(by mistake mind you), they explained that they had to cut half of the series out, because the original show was directed at a more mature audience(meaning adults), and the stupid American standards(which are below the bottom-of-the-universe by artistic standards), of no death(Sven dies in the sixth episode, watch very closley) no blood, violence, or sexual refferences(which the creators of the show had no problem with), had to be upheld. I'm suprised the series even lasted a week.
Another example is Mazinger Z's U.crappy S. version, Trazor Z, which was cancelled because of the editing of the original materieal from what it IS, into somthing more along the lines of a watered down family heart warmer, with out the warm. Mazinger Z was also(in its entireity) a show that adults as well as children can be entertained by.
Have you ever seen Fritz the Cat? Urotsukidoji? There are plenty of "cartoons" that are quite pornagraphic. I'm sure the producers of those films had all the little buggers in mind.
Personally, i'd rather see an animated Transformers film, that is approched with the same level of seriousness as, say, Akira, than some crappy, hollywood money maker, with all the seriousness of a barrel of monkeys. But alas, i certainly hope the movie is good, but i don't have much hope of that anymore, after reading this( as well as almost everything else i have read about it).

Till All Are One.

It's good to let it out, Duo. You win an internet.

1337W422102 wrote:It's good to let it out, Duo. You win an internet.

Hell yeah, man!!! I'm joining DAMMiT.

Isn't this production just a lovely bunch? Now we have to "shut up" because they don't want to hear our complaints.

I can't believe they managed to totally screw up even Optimus Prime because of one man's hubris..