RogueDeathangel wrote:vectorA3 wrote:Opera and ballet are not good examples to use. Heavily music, song and dance based. I expect some character development in a TF film because there are over 25 yrs. of comics, cartoon and other source material with rich character depth to draw from. Bay's movies are blatantly made to A) make $ and B) sell toys for hasbro. 'B' i'm less concerned about b/c I have bought some of the toys.
But there's no reason that films have to be heavily character and plot based. There's just as much artistic validity in a film being an exercise in style as a film that's an exercise in substance.
You make a good point about there being 25 years worth of depth to draw on but surely it's a worth-while endeavour to attempt to take the franchise in a direction it's never been in before? Transformers have never been used to make a big-budget, wide-screen, pop corn action extravaganza before so why not try that, rather than retreading the same old ground that the franchise has been going over for the past quarter of a century?
And of course the film is designed to make money. No company, no matter how artistically-driven would ever pony up a fifth of a billion dollars to make a film and NOT try to at least make its money back.
vectorA3 wrote:
I go back to starfish's point -- no reason we can't have action and depth together. Part of that comes from poor writing. And I'm not saying that they need to recycle material directly from G1 or comics, but new stories with traces of the old would be good to see. The characters in the Bay films are so shallow. First movie -Megatron is established, temporarily defeated. Next, TF2 -- The Fallen comes out of nowhere, no backstory, no buildup. DOTM -- again, no mention of the plot points with The Fallen, Megatron has no power, and Sentinel Prime goes berserk. All over the place - these should've been more cohesive & not thrown together at the last minute. ROTF and DOTM very rushed. ROTF suffered more from that. One of the worst continuities for a trilogy I've ever seen. When the reboot happens - i hope they don't throw $250 mill + into garbage, last minute, written on the spot scripts/screenplays as they have been. That's no way to make a movie. And as I've said for the umpteenth time, they need to wait at least 3 years between movies to give everyone involved a chance to breathe. They're lucky ILM offices didn't meltdown & workers didnt have heart attacks
Predaprince wrote:Evil_the_Nub wrote:Gemini220 wrote:From alot of the reviews I've read here with people shredding this movie to bits a few questions?
Where you expecting an Oscar type movie?
Did you submit scrips to Bay & Co?
What cartoon, comic book, action figure made into a live action film has been perfect?
People have hated the first 3 Star Wars movies which were excellent. People have love or hated the Superman, Batman, XMEN, Ironman movies but the key word is Movies. You go to escape from the real world for a few hrs, some take it as though it's the end of the world because "Their favorite cartoon, comic book, action figure characters etc" wasn't The Movie they wanted it.
I'm pretty sure this time around he had alot of input on do's & don'ts, how things should go who knows.
It's just wild reading these responses.
As for when I said people were applauding, why do some clap & cheer after riding a roller-coaster?
I never understood how people can get so worked up over movies. Are their lives so cushy and boring that watching a movie is the worst thing that can happen to them? Maybe some people just live to complain I guess.
Or perhaps it is that some people expect more from the film that they paid money to see.
Gemini220 wrote:I've heard alot of complaints about Ironman 2....
Gemini220 wrote:I've heard alot of complaints about Ironman 2....
shamone wrote:Gemini220 wrote:I've heard alot of complaints about Ironman 2....
agreed. it was accused of being a rehash of the first without adding much new
vectorA3 wrote:RogueDeathangel wrote:vectorA3 wrote:Opera and ballet are not good examples to use. Heavily music, song and dance based. I expect some character development in a TF film because there are over 25 yrs. of comics, cartoon and other source material with rich character depth to draw from. Bay's movies are blatantly made to A) make $ and B) sell toys for hasbro. 'B' i'm less concerned about b/c I have bought some of the toys.
But there's no reason that films have to be heavily character and plot based. There's just as much artistic validity in a film being an exercise in style as a film that's an exercise in substance.
You make a good point about there being 25 years worth of depth to draw on but surely it's a worth-while endeavour to attempt to take the franchise in a direction it's never been in before? Transformers have never been used to make a big-budget, wide-screen, pop corn action extravaganza before so why not try that, rather than retreading the same old ground that the franchise has been going over for the past quarter of a century?
And of course the film is designed to make money. No company, no matter how artistically-driven would ever pony up a fifth of a billion dollars to make a film and NOT try to at least make its money back.
I go back to starfish's point -- no reason we can't have action and depth together. Part of that comes from poor writing. And I'm not saying that they need to recycle material directly from G1 or comics, but new stories with traces of the old would be good to see. The characters in the Bay films are so shallow. First movie -Megatron is established, temporarily defeated. Next, TF2 -- The Fallen comes out of nowhere, no backstory, no buildup. DOTM -- again, no mention of the plot points with The Fallen, Megatron has no power, and Sentinel Prime goes berserk. All over the place - these should've been more cohesive & not thrown together at the last minute. ROTF and DOTM very rushed. ROTF suffered more from that. One of the worst continuities for a trilogy I've ever seen. When the reboot happens - i hope they don't throw $250 mill + into garbage, last minute, written on the spot scripts/screenplays as they have been. That's no way to make a movie. And as I've said for the umpteenth time, they need to wait at least 3 years between movies to give everyone involved a chance to breathe. They're lucky ILM offices didn't meltdown & workers didnt have heart attacks
D-340 wrote:Gemini220 wrote:I've heard alot of complaints about Ironman 2....
Hmmmmmm.............never heard any complaints about IronMan 2. And I'd call bs on it anyway, IronMan 2 was just as good as the first.
NewFoundStarscreamLuv wrote:me and my friends combine all the time. Sometimes I even combine by myself if no one is around.
RogueDeathangel wrote:vectorA3 wrote:RogueDeathangel wrote:vectorA3 wrote:Opera and ballet are not good examples to use. Heavily music, song and dance based. I expect some character development in a TF film because there are over 25 yrs. of comics, cartoon and other source material with rich character depth to draw from. Bay's movies are blatantly made to A) make $ and B) sell toys for hasbro. 'B' i'm less concerned about b/c I have bought some of the toys.
But there's no reason that films have to be heavily character and plot based. There's just as much artistic validity in a film being an exercise in style as a film that's an exercise in substance.
You make a good point about there being 25 years worth of depth to draw on but surely it's a worth-while endeavour to attempt to take the franchise in a direction it's never been in before? Transformers have never been used to make a big-budget, wide-screen, pop corn action extravaganza before so why not try that, rather than retreading the same old ground that the franchise has been going over for the past quarter of a century?
And of course the film is designed to make money. No company, no matter how artistically-driven would ever pony up a fifth of a billion dollars to make a film and NOT try to at least make its money back.
I go back to starfish's point -- no reason we can't have action and depth together. Part of that comes from poor writing. And I'm not saying that they need to recycle material directly from G1 or comics, but new stories with traces of the old would be good to see. The characters in the Bay films are so shallow. First movie -Megatron is established, temporarily defeated. Next, TF2 -- The Fallen comes out of nowhere, no backstory, no buildup. DOTM -- again, no mention of the plot points with The Fallen, Megatron has no power, and Sentinel Prime goes berserk. All over the place - these should've been more cohesive & not thrown together at the last minute. ROTF and DOTM very rushed. ROTF suffered more from that. One of the worst continuities for a trilogy I've ever seen. When the reboot happens - i hope they don't throw $250 mill + into garbage, last minute, written on the spot scripts/screenplays as they have been. That's no way to make a movie. And as I've said for the umpteenth time, they need to wait at least 3 years between movies to give everyone involved a chance to breathe. They're lucky ILM offices didn't meltdown & workers didnt have heart attacks
I've already agreed that there's no reason you can't have action and depth. As I said in the post you quoted, I just don't see why a film must have both. It's like saying a meal must have meat in it.
And I've never viewed the Transformers films as a Trilogy. It's not one long story that takes three films to tell (such as Back to the Future etc.) they're more like episodes of the G1 cartoon or CSI, self-contained one-shot stories that have very little bearing on each other.
Bleak5170 wrote:sushilove wrote:All the chicago action was slowly paced and the scenes were disconected. One minute we see bumblebee saving sam and lennox and they are in the side of the river unable to go to the other side... and the next minute we see bumblebee captured by the decepticons... how this happened?
Yeah that confused me as well. It's like there's little bits missing in places.
Stormer wrote:
While I'd love to see a Transformers movie with some depth, heavy character development and a story that would blow us all away and win an Oscar or two, truthfully with the current writers/directors/producers I wasn't expecting that. I enjoyed the movies very much, and there are elements in all three that are very good ideas that I wish were explored much deeper. And, I wish it had been a true trilogy, too.
And, yes, there are very good action movies - the new X-Men movie and Thor were really really good. Maybe Marvel Studios should make a Transformer movie or two...
D-340 wrote:Gemini220 wrote:I've heard alot of complaints about Ironman 2....
Hmmmmmm.............never heard any complaints about IronMan 2. And I'd call bs on it anyway, IronMan 2 was just as good as the first.
sushilove wrote:Stormer wrote:
While I'd love to see a Transformers movie with some depth, heavy character development and a story that would blow us all away and win an Oscar or two, truthfully with the current writers/directors/producers I wasn't expecting that. I enjoyed the movies very much, and there are elements in all three that are very good ideas that I wish were explored much deeper. And, I wish it had been a true trilogy, too.
And, yes, there are very good action movies - the new X-Men movie and Thor were really really good. Maybe Marvel Studios should make a Transformer movie or two...
Totally agree with you...
I'm glad to found out i'm not the only person who thinks Marvel Studios should do a Transformers movie!
vectorA3 wrote:sushilove wrote:Stormer wrote:
While I'd love to see a Transformers movie with some depth, heavy character development and a story that would blow us all away and win an Oscar or two, truthfully with the current writers/directors/producers I wasn't expecting that. I enjoyed the movies very much, and there are elements in all three that are very good ideas that I wish were explored much deeper. And, I wish it had been a true trilogy, too.
And, yes, there are very good action movies - the new X-Men movie and Thor were really really good. Maybe Marvel Studios should make a Transformer movie or two...
Totally agree with you...
I'm glad to found out i'm not the only person who thinks Marvel Studios should do a Transformers movie!
I agree too. Just no input from Bay or Disney. Get better writers and bring back Welker to voice Megs. Get Jack Angel, Neil Ross, Gregg Burger, Michael McConnohie, Paul Eiding, Arlene Banas, Morgan Lofting, Dan Gilvezan, and many G1 as possible. Guarantee you this will be a win. Esp. if they focus more on the bots and not the HUMANS!!
Gemini220 wrote:What cracks me up is people expecting the movie to be exactly like the cartoon?!
Its just like people going to say a Van Halen concert and complaining bout Dave not singing the words exactly like the album etc...
shamone wrote:vectorA3 wrote:sushilove wrote:Stormer wrote:
While I'd love to see a Transformers movie with some depth, heavy character development and a story that would blow us all away and win an Oscar or two, truthfully with the current writers/directors/producers I wasn't expecting that. I enjoyed the movies very much, and there are elements in all three that are very good ideas that I wish were explored much deeper. And, I wish it had been a true trilogy, too.
And, yes, there are very good action movies - the new X-Men movie and Thor were really really good. Maybe Marvel Studios should make a Transformer movie or two...
Totally agree with you...
I'm glad to found out i'm not the only person who thinks Marvel Studios should do a Transformers movie!
I agree too. Just no input from Bay or Disney. Get better writers and bring back Welker to voice Megs. Get Jack Angel, Neil Ross, Gregg Burger, Michael McConnohie, Paul Eiding, Arlene Banas, Morgan Lofting, Dan Gilvezan, and many G1 as possible. Guarantee you this will be a win. Esp. if they focus more on the bots and not the HUMANS!!
have humans in it, but revolved around the robots.
Blast Cannon wrote:Too many damn humans with their irrelevant convulted love plots. I came to watch the Transformers TO SEE THE TRANSFORMERS!
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