Studio Series 86 Discussion
Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by Sabrblade » Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:21 pm
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[quote="Tuned Agent"]This is, of course, how I (and seemingly others) interpreted the original statement. Sabrblade, feel free to correct me if my interpretation of your statement is incorrect.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by RotorstormNZ » Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:33 pm
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I'm sure I've said this before and am no doubt far from alone but...SS86 Megatron and Shockwave when? 
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by Sabrblade » Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:44 pm
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[quote="RotorstormNZ"]I'm sure I've said this before and am no doubt far from alone but...SS86 Megatron and Shockwave when?
When the United States government repeals its toy gun laws.So, never.
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[quote="Caelus"]My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'[quote="Shadowman"]This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by Sowndwave76 » Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:47 pm
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[quote="william-james88"]
But those Starscreams won't be there a year from now and hasbro does not do buybacks, so everything will have been sold to consumers in one way or another. And we know that collectors are the ones who bought them first, while the rest are purchased for kids birthdays and christmas. So there are 10 SS86 Starscreams, 3 of them sold within the first month (most probably to older fans) and the rest stayed there for a long time. However, all will be sold after a 1 year cycle of birthdays and holidays.
So that's 3 out of 10 sold to older fans and 7 out of 10 to be sold for kids.
30% according to your own example, which is the same stat Hasbro gave.
So what am I not seeing?
Your examples have to do with what you are seeing selling (currently) on your shelf, but instead you have to look at the entire picture to get the true stat. Think back to all the toys that you chose not to buy (either because you didn't want or because you already had it) that you kept seeing on your shelf for months at a time a year ago, or two years ago, are they still on shelves now? Seeing that there are 7 starscreams out of 10 left means that there are 7 starscreams left for general public to buy once the older fans took the ones they wanted.
This is very similar to when I read fans saying "man there's so much cyberverse and its always on the shelf, not selling", which is a fallacy but it seems true to them because they choose recency bias (the same toys were there last week) rather than actually sitting down and looking at the facts.
We have a TF wiki that shows all the previously released Cyberverse figures and we have entertainment earth showing the case assortments for rereleases, of which there are plenty. Jot down all the figures released and then go to a shelf and check how many of those you still see on the shelf. All the ones you don't see have been sold. But it didn't appear that way because people forgot what the shelf looked like a year ago.
In the end, while I get your use of logic as a fan and what people may think, and going through that approach, the only facts that matter are sales, and Hasbro pays millions to keep abreast on that while none of us do. So that's what I go with too.
But those Starscreams won't be there a year from now and hasbro does not do buybacks, so everything will have been sold to consumers in one way or another. And we know that collectors are the ones who bought them first, while the rest are purchased for kids birthdays and christmas. So there are 10 SS86 Starscreams, 3 of them sold within the first month (most probably to older fans) and the rest stayed there for a long time. However, all will be sold after a 1 year cycle of birthdays and holidays.
So that's 3 out of 10 sold to older fans and 7 out of 10 to be sold for kids.
30% according to your own example, which is the same stat Hasbro gave.
So what am I not seeing?
Your examples have to do with what you are seeing selling (currently) on your shelf, but instead you have to look at the entire picture to get the true stat. Think back to all the toys that you chose not to buy (either because you didn't want or because you already had it) that you kept seeing on your shelf for months at a time a year ago, or two years ago, are they still on shelves now? Seeing that there are 7 starscreams out of 10 left means that there are 7 starscreams left for general public to buy once the older fans took the ones they wanted.
This is very similar to when I read fans saying "man there's so much cyberverse and its always on the shelf, not selling", which is a fallacy but it seems true to them because they choose recency bias (the same toys were there last week) rather than actually sitting down and looking at the facts.
We have a TF wiki that shows all the previously released Cyberverse figures and we have entertainment earth showing the case assortments for rereleases, of which there are plenty. Jot down all the figures released and then go to a shelf and check how many of those you still see on the shelf. All the ones you don't see have been sold. But it didn't appear that way because people forgot what the shelf looked like a year ago.
In the end, while I get your use of logic as a fan and what people may think, and going through that approach, the only facts that matter are sales, and Hasbro pays millions to keep abreast on that while none of us do. So that's what I go with too.
My example used pretty random numbers, and the point (that I also stated later in my post) is that collectors and fans most likely make up more than 30% of total TF sales.
So if this makes it clearer, I'll put it this way...
I'm betting of 10 leader class figures, at least 5 are bought by collectors/fans. And initially, 1-2 could be snagged by scalpers... So at best 5 are bought by any other type of consumer.
Let's just say it takes a sale to get other types of consumers to buy this figure.
If 5 are bought at $40; $200.
If the 5 bought by collectors/fans weren't on sale, that's $250.
But let's change those numbers to where 6 were bought by other consumers on sale, and only 4 were bought by collectors/fans at regular cost.
That's $240 vs $200... That's not exactly a 70%/30% split.
And I thought it was a bit generous to say other consumers would buy this figure at a price of $40.
My point had nothing to do with what I'm seeing in my local stores... I believe this is what happens everywhere. Because for every 1 "rich" parent who can drop $50 for a kid's toy on a random Tuesday trip to Target, there are 12 parents who don't even have that financial option. 4-8 of those parents probably don't even shop at Target.
I think in the context of this topic, people need to consider reality; both of the product we're talking about, and the variables of the consumer groups.
Where as most of us here on the forums budget and end up spending a crap ton on these toys, most parents aren't doing that (which was part of my last post).
You want to throw-in birthdays and Christmas, and again, not all parents spend a truckload of money on toys for these holidays.
People may not want to think about this, but the cost of a full set of Legacy Stunticons (so $190-ish) is more than a lot of kids see in presents for their birthday and Christmas combined.
I also want to throw out there that there are plenty of parents who may have the financial means, but are shelling that money so their son or daughter can play on a traveling baseball or softball team. And on new cleats every season their kid has grown... New uniforms, new equipment.
As far as the two photos you posted, I hope you realize that's not what the 'average' Target looked or ever looks like...
To have that many leader class figures truly seems like a distribution/ordering mistake.
Around Christmas I saw 6 Slags... That was it. There was never a TF display of any TF figures on an endcap. During or after the holiday.
Most times when I've seen TF on endcaps it's never been a full TF display; they're mixed in with at least 2 other completely different toylines.
After Christmas I never saw more than 6 total, until I never saw them again.
Your other point about figures that people never see because they sold also could be way off...
Because there's always a chance that certain stores flat-out never receive any of that specific toy (character, vehicle, variant, etc.).
And outside of my own experiences such as having to buy all 5 of my Sharkticons online (after hunting at multiple stores for multiple months),
When a handful of Targets (or Walmarts) manages to get 1-2 dozen SS86 Slags that fill up shelves or an endcap, I'd willing to bet that means other locations didn't get any.
Out of all of the characters and character variants of MotU, I'd bet my life on it that my local Target won't get those all in stock. There's just no way.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by william-james88 » Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:07 pm
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@Soundwave76 It doesn't matter what you see in your personal target or the logic you tell yourself, or what you believe is going on, none are matched by facts nor in line with anything Hasbro has reported. I am only presenting you solid evidence of high quantities of toys that collectors already had in their collections, still being sold at targets, in vast quantities (so vast, you think these are mistakes in ordering) and it is in line with what Hasbro has told us. I am just going by the facts Hasbro already told us and giving you concrete examples. Neither you nor I have spent millions figuring out what sells to who but Hasbro has, so I am going with what they say, and we have evidence backing it up. You can choose to think whatever you want in contradiction to that, but know that you are going against the facts and using anecdotal evidence which cannot be used to arrive at anything conclusive. My job on the site is to report the facts and I will keep doing so, but you can do and believe as you wish. If I ever see facts showing that collectors are the key group these transformers toys in retail toy aisles are targeting and selling to then I will report as such, but there is no evidence for that so far.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by primalxconvoy » Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:19 pm
[quote="william-james88"]I am just going by the facts Hasbro already told us and giving you concrete examples... but there is no evidence for (collectors being a significant demographic) so far.
Please cite your evidence.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by Tuned Agent » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:03 pm
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[quote="Sabrblade"][quote="Tuned Agent"]This is, of course, how I (and seemingly others) interpreted the original statement. Sabrblade, feel free to correct me if my interpretation of your statement is incorrect.
[img]https://c.tenor.com/_5CCmSzS3x0AAAAC/full-house-michelle-tanner.gif[/img]Good to know, thank you!
[quote="primalxconvoy"][quote="Tuned Agent"]
And, as others have already pointed out, the statements "based directly on it in some fashion" and "based almost exclusively on" mean two different things.
And maybe, if someone's statement can be interpreted in multiple ways, clarification on what they meant should be asked for before you impose your own meaning on their words. Just a tip for future reference.
No.
The definition I gave was correct. The original use (and your erroneous interpretation) was not. No personal imposition was conducted. It is simply a matter of correct language knowledge or use.
The definition you gave was one of several (you provided the list yourself) that the word can mean depending on the context it's used in. The original post used one definition for the word. You, on the other hand, used a different definition that didn't fit the original context, and are now trying to claim that your definition is the only "correct" definition (even though you yourself provided several definitions). You are trying to impose your definition of a word on someone else's statement, and are ignoring correct language knowledge that a word can mean different things in different contexts.
[quote="primalxconvoy"]The facts have been presented to you. It's not my problem that you cannot grasp them.
The only facts that you have presented is a list of different definitions for the word "directly". Your opinion on how the original post meant to use the word is, well, an opinion (and, as confirmed by Sabrblade himself, an incorrect opinion). Your apparent belief that "directly" can only mean "exactly" regardless of context is simply wrong. It's not my (or anyone else's) problem that you cannot grasp this.
[quote="primalxconvoy"]As for your views of "in (some) fashion":
[img]https://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/download/file.php?id=73247&t=1[/img]
This makes the use of "directly" oxymoronic, as one means "exactly", while the other means "in some unknown/indistinct/indirect way". Thus, it is akin to "definitely maybe" It is also similar to the idiom "In a fashion".
If the OP wanted to be succinct (and used similar lexis), they should have written something akin to "based largely upon" or "mainly fashioned upon".
There are two huge flaws in this, which render your argument for this part irrelevant:
1. You are once again treating "exactly" as the only definition of "directly", which is false.
2. The "unknown/indistinct/indirect/maybe" part of your definition for "in some fashion" is nowhere in the source you provided. It was entirely imposed into the definition by you.
[quote="primalxconvoy"]My point stands.
In your own head, not based on reality.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by Gauntlet101010 » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:21 pm
[quote="Sabrblade"][quote="RotorstormNZ"]I'm sure I've said this before and am no doubt far from alone but...SS86 Megatron and Shockwave when?
When the United States government repeals its toy gun laws.So, never.
Would that prevent Shockwave?
Although I like Siege as it is.
There's the old 3rd party Hegemon that serves as an unofficial gun mode Megs if you wanted to go that route.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by primalxconvoy » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:22 pm
[quote="Tuned Agent"]
The definition you gave was one of several (you provided the list yourself) that the word can mean depending on the context it's used.
The definition you gave was one of several (you provided the list yourself) that the word can mean depending on the context it's used.
Indeed. However, of those definitions, only one fits the context. Thus, your opinion is irrelevant. The facts, and my point, stand.
[quote]The original post used one definition for the word. You, on the other hand, used a different definition that didn't fit the original context, and are now trying to claim that your definition is the only "correct" definition (even though you yourself provided several definitions). You are trying to impose your definition of a word on someone else's statement, and are ignoring correct language knowledge that a word can mean different things in different contexts.
Again, see above.
[quote]The only facts that you have presented is a list of different definitions for the word "directly".
See above.
[quote]1. You are once again treating "exactly" as the only definition of "directly", which is false.
2. The "unknown/indistinct/indirect/maybe" part of your definition for "in some fashion" is nowhere in the source you provided. It was entirely imposed into the definition by you.
See above.
I'm sorry you lack the knowledge or intelligence to understand the correct usage of lexis. You are most welcome to engage in a higher level of education in the matter and I welcome you to return to the discussion when you are better prepared. Until then, your posts regarding this matter are simply irrelevant and will be ignored.
My points stand. As do the facts.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by primalxconvoy » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:26 pm
[quote="Gauntlet101010"][quote="Sabrblade"][quote="RotorstormNZ"]I'm sure I've said this before and am no doubt far from alone but...SS86 Megatron and Shockwave when?
When the United States government repeals its toy gun laws.So, never.
Would that prevent Shockwave?
Although I like Siege as it is.
There's the old 3rd party Hegemon that serves as an unofficial gun mode Megs if you wanted to go that route.
There's also the Maketoy's offering:
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by william-james88 » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:31 pm
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[quote="Gauntlet101010"][quote="Sabrblade"][quote="RotorstormNZ"]I'm sure I've said this before and am no doubt far from alone but...SS86 Megatron and Shockwave when?
When the United States government repeals its toy gun laws.So, never.
Would that prevent Shockwave?
Although I like Siege as it is.
There's the old 3rd party Hegemon that serves as an unofficial gun mode Megs if you wanted to go that route.
To be fair, the person only asked about a Megatron and Shockwave released in the SS86 line, they don't have to turn into guns. The reason I see it as unlikely is because the SS86 line served to release bots or versions of bots that were not released in the other generations line, hence why I don't think we'd see a Megatron or Shockwave. Megatron especially since we got him in many G1 style decos.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by -Kanrabat- » Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:35 pm
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[quote="william-james88"]
To be fair, the person only asked about a Megatron and Shockwave released in the SS86 line, they don't have to turn into guns. The reason I see it as unlikely is because the SS86 line served to release bots or versions of bots that were not released in the other generations line, hence why I don't think we'd see a Megatron or Shockwave. Megatron especially since we got him in many G1 style decos.
To be fair, the person only asked about a Megatron and Shockwave released in the SS86 line, they don't have to turn into guns. The reason I see it as unlikely is because the SS86 line served to release bots or versions of bots that were not released in the other generations line, hence why I don't think we'd see a Megatron or Shockwave. Megatron especially since we got him in many G1 style decos.
Still one Megs could make it into SS86. They could make a brand new mold that hide the thank kibble better by filling up the legs and avoiding a backpack.
Or they could be lazy and just repaint the Siege mold into the "almost dead" Megatron.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by Tuned Agent » Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:46 pm
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[quote="primalxconvoy"][quote="Tuned Agent"]
The definition you gave was one of several (you provided the list yourself) that the word can mean depending on the context it's used.
The definition you gave was one of several (you provided the list yourself) that the word can mean depending on the context it's used.
Indeed. However, of those definitions, only one fits the context. Thus, your opinion is irrelevant. The facts, and my point, stand.
And why is it that only the "exactly" definition fits in the original context? The context of the original comment was written to use the "in a direct line or manner; straight" definition, and everyone who read and commented on the use of the word interpreted the word the way it was intended by the author, except for you. Since everyone (but you) understood what the word was intended to mean in the context it was used, it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that it was properly used in context.
[quote="primalxconvoy"][quote]The original post used one definition for the word. You, on the other hand, used a different definition that didn't fit the original context, and are now trying to claim that your definition is the only "correct" definition (even though you yourself provided several definitions). You are trying to impose your definition of a word on someone else's statement, and are ignoring correct language knowledge that a word can mean different things in different contexts.
Again, see above.
[quote]The only facts that you have presented is a list of different definitions for the word "directly".
See above.
See above.
[quote="primalxconvoy"][quote]1. You are once again treating "exactly" as the only definition of "directly", which is false.
2. The "unknown/indistinct/indirect/maybe" part of your definition for "in some fashion" is nowhere in the source you provided. It was entirely imposed into the definition by you.
See above.
The second point I made here is never addressed above, nor is supported by the definition you provided for the phrase.
[quote="primalxconvoy"]I'm sorry you lack the knowledge or intelligence to understand the correct usage of lexis. You are most welcome to engage in a higher level of education in the matter and I welcome you to return to the discussion when you are better prepared. Until then, your posts regarding this matter are simply irrelevant and will be ignored.
My points stand. As do the facts.
Excuse me?
I may think you're demonstrably wrong on this subject, but I would never stoop so low as to insult your education and intelligence.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by primalxconvoy » Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:53 pm
[quote="william-james88"][quote="Gauntlet101010"][quote="Sabrblade"][quote="RotorstormNZ"]I'm sure I've said this before and am no doubt far from alone but...SS86 Megatron and Shockwave when?
When the United States government repeals its toy gun laws.So, never.
Would that prevent Shockwave?
Although I like Siege as it is.
There's the old 3rd party Hegemon that serves as an unofficial gun mode Megs if you wanted to go that route.
To be fair, the person only asked about a Megatron and Shockwave released in the SS86 line, they don't have to turn into guns. The reason I see it as unlikely is because the SS86 line served to release bots or versions of bots that were not released in the other generations line, hence why I don't think we'd see a Megatron or Shockwave. Megatron especially since we got him in many G1 style decos.
That's possibly true. However you mentioned "facts" from Hasbro, regarding sales to children, rather than adults. Please could you share links/add citation to illustrate you point(s)?
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by primalxconvoy » Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:12 pm
[quote="SpaceEagle"][quote="primalxconvoy"][quote="SpaceEagle"]Emerje used "directly" correctly...
Incorrect.
[attachment=0]Screenshot_20220810-171930.jpg
Oh huh, weird. I genuinely haven't seen people use it in that manner, now that's surprising!
It's commonly used where I am/in my social/professional circles.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by Burn » Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:13 pm
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Guys, please stop feeding him. It should be clearly obvious that he enjoys taking full advantage of the lack of Mods/Admins to break any forum rule he sees fit and to antagonise however many people he can.
Put him on your block list and you'll never have to deal with his crap again and we can all enjoy the actual point of each topic.
Put him on your block list and you'll never have to deal with his crap again and we can all enjoy the actual point of each topic.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by primalxconvoy » Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:28 pm
[quote="Burn"]something, something...
The topics I discussed were brought up by other users, not myself. Feel free to offer your advice to cover those other users too.
I'm sure many here have wanted to add you to the blocklist too, in your troubled history here, Burn.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is over.
Now, back to the discussion of SS86 toys.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by Rodimus Prime » Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:16 pm
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[quote="william-james88"]To be fair, the person only asked about a Megatron and Shockwave released in the SS86 line, they don't have to turn into guns. Megatron especially since we got him in many G1 style decos.
Megatron would be the 1 who would have to turn into a gun, since that's what he was on screen. And that's the point of the SS lines, to be screen accurate, no? I mean it's 1 thing not to be able to replicate Age of Extinction Galvatron's "transformation" from the movie, but if SS86 Megatron wasn't a gun, what's the point of even including him? And apparently the designers have confirmed that we will not get a gun Megatron under any circumstances, so it's a moot point. Shockwave, however, is more of a gray area, IMO. Yes, his alt-mode is gun-like, but technically he's a space cannon, a purple one at that. I don't think he would be mistaken for a gun, unless some dumbass 12-year-old points him at a cop in the dark. Also, another technicality, we don't actually see Shockwave transform in the movie (unless I missed it on some deleted scene or something, and that wouldn't count anyway) so he can have the accurate robot mode, but have him turn into something like he is in Siege, but hopefully something more tidy, because that thing looks a sloppy mess.
[img]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxqlcco0QIcWCWJ7BlcjoJRBtTyMklRPk2WRVEfUkqZg&s=10[/img]
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by Tuned Agent » Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:53 pm
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[quote="Burn"]Guys, please stop feeding him. It should be clearly obvious that he enjoys taking full advantage of the lack of Mods/Admins to break any forum rule he sees fit and to antagonise however many people he can.
Put him on your block list and you'll never have to deal with his crap again and we can all enjoy the actual point of each topic.
Put him on your block list and you'll never have to deal with his crap again and we can all enjoy the actual point of each topic.
Preach.
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by RodimusPrimeUkraine1 » Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:00 pm
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Guys, I just got to rereading all theese messages. And (don't tell me) what is going on?
Are we literally arguing over if we have a damaged megatron that turns into a gun?
If you really need one, go buy the masterpiece version, it has both. No point in insulting admins over an 86 megatron
Are we literally arguing over if we have a damaged megatron that turns into a gun?
If you really need one, go buy the masterpiece version, it has both. No point in insulting admins over an 86 megatron
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my-small-collection-t118287.php
Should I kill this thread? transformers-cursed-images-p2148727.php
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by Cyber Bishop » Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:39 pm
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[quote="RodimusPrimeUkraine1"]No point in insulting admins
There are no admins here anymore, Burn's title is messed up as he stepped down a while ago, if it were right the words Forum Admin would be green.
Not a sheeple.
Think for yourself, don't let the magic TV box and social media do the thinking for you.
Question EVERYTHING!!
Just because you have a youtube review channel doesn't make you special.
I look forward to attending a Botcon soon only to settle matters with several idiots in person (yes this is a threat).
Think for yourself, don't let the magic TV box and social media do the thinking for you.
Question EVERYTHING!!
Just because you have a youtube review channel doesn't make you special.
I look forward to attending a Botcon soon only to settle matters with several idiots in person (yes this is a threat).
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by RodimusPrimeUkraine1 » Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:42 pm
- Motto: "If you think I'm different, It's because I'm superior."
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[quote="Cyber Bishop"][quote="RodimusPrimeUkraine1"]No point in insulting admins
There are no admins here anymore, Burn's title is messed up as he stepped down a while ago, if it were right the words Forum Admin would be green.
Alright. But the past conversation looks ridiculus.
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my-small-collection-t118287.php
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by blackeyedprime » Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:56 pm
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The only fight here, is going to be which un-iconic Ironhide figure is the best? ss86 or ssbee 
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by -Kanrabat- » Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:59 pm
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[quote="blackeyedprime"]The only fight here, is going to be which un-iconic Ironhide figure is the best? ss86 or ssbee
No fights possible when comparing apples and oranges.
Unless one is that guy who will put tomatoes in a fruit salad because tomatoes are technically a fruit.
[center]Come see my latest creation,[/center]
[center]Spacequint, the Quintesson mothership[/center]
[center][size=150]HERE![/size][/center]
[center][/center]
[center]Spacequint, the Quintesson mothership[/center]
[center][size=150]HERE![/size][/center]
[center]
[/center]
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Re: Studio Series 86 Discussion
by blackeyedprime » Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:08 pm
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[quote="-Kanrabat-"][quote="blackeyedprime"]The only fight here, is going to be which un-iconic Ironhide figure is the best? ss86 or ssbee
No fights possible when comparing apples and oranges.
Unless one is that guy who will put tomatoes in a fruit salad because tomatoes are technically a fruit.
and puts bananas on a herb rack XD
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