The Energon Pub

So if I'm understanding this correctly ... for years people complained about G1 Ironhide (and by extension Ratchet) looked NOTHING like his cartoon self. Even after the reissue gave Ironhide and Ratchet cardboard heads that still wasn't enough, because again, didn't look like his cartoon self and because the "sled" was just pointless.

Now we have a reasonably cartoon accurate Ironhide and people are bitching about it not having a "sled"? **** me there's just no pleasing some of you people.

Burn wrote:So if I'm understanding this correctly ... for years people complained about G1 Ironhide (and by extension Ratchet) looked NOTHING like his cartoon self. Even after the reissue gave Ironhide and Ratchet cardboard heads that still wasn't enough, because again, didn't look like his cartoon self and because the "sled" was just pointless.

Now we have a reasonably cartoon accurate Ironhide and people are bitching about it not having a "sled"? **** me there's just no pleasing some of you people.

No, people complained that most, if not every mass-produced CHUG Ironhide has been poorly made, regardless of whether it was toon/toy accurate.

primalxconvoy wrote:

Burn wrote:So if I'm understanding this correctly ... for years people complained about G1 Ironhide (and by extension Ratchet) looked NOTHING like his cartoon self. Even after the reissue gave Ironhide and Ratchet cardboard heads that still wasn't enough, because again, didn't look like his cartoon self and because the "sled" was just pointless.

Now we have a reasonably cartoon accurate Ironhide and people are bitching about it not having a "sled"? **** me there's just no pleasing some of you people.

No, people complained that most, if not every mass-produced CHUG Ironhide has been poorly made, regardless of whether it was toon/toy accurate.

Funny, from what I saw everyone was clamouring for Earthrise Ironhide/Ratchet, especially as an Australian based collector and how hard they were to acquire if you could afford them.

But then, what would I know...

primalxconvoy wrote:

Burn wrote:So if I'm understanding this correctly ... for years people complained about G1 Ironhide (and by extension Ratchet) looked NOTHING like his cartoon self. Even after the reissue gave Ironhide and Ratchet cardboard heads that still wasn't enough, because again, didn't look like his cartoon self and because the "sled" was just pointless.

Now we have a reasonably cartoon accurate Ironhide and people are bitching about it not having a "sled"? **** me there's just no pleasing some of you people.

No, people complained that most, if not every mass-produced CHUG Ironhide has been poorly made, regardless of whether it was toon/toy accurate.

I'd say it's a bit of both, only because personally I have seen complaints that Ironhide wasn't "accurate" enough, but it also probably didn't help that most G1 CHUG 'Hides were also pretty mediocre. Siege was probably the holy grail for a minute or two.
But another thing that probably shows that people really wanted an accurate Ironhide/Ratchet was the 3rd party market giving all sorts of offerings to have the full, cartoon accurate man-to-van figure.

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:The T-30 MOLD is actually fine. The color scheme is the problem. I got over TR Kup's color scheme, but t-30 Arcee is just inappropriate. Then legends sells for $70+

But she's the same colors as Bee Movie Arcee who's also the completely wrong design in every way.

primalxconvoy wrote:Partsforming isn't a problem. I believe those that would have a problem with it (regarding this specific character) would firmly bed in the minority, as G1 fans understand the context.

Understanding the context doesn't mean the context is a good idea! As far as I'm concerned there's nothing more offensive in a modern Transformer than unnecessary parts forming (not part of the play pattern like Weaponizers or forming armor like Ultra Magnus who is still a complete figure or vehicle without the trailer). On my Earthrise figures they stay on their backs, I don't need them to be anything other than backpacks, the ones that came with the MPs are still in the boxes. I'd rather see that extra plastic go to giving me a better figure, though SS86 Ironhide completely failed us there so I don't know if Hasbro has any real answer to making the perfect Ironhide. Maybe Leader Class?

Emerje

Burn wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

Burn wrote:So if I'm understanding this correctly ... for years people complained about G1 Ironhide (and by extension Ratchet) looked NOTHING like his cartoon self. Even after the reissue gave Ironhide and Ratchet cardboard heads that still wasn't enough, because again, didn't look like his cartoon self and because the "sled" was just pointless.

Now we have a reasonably cartoon accurate Ironhide and people are bitching about it not having a "sled"? **** me there's just no pleasing some of you people.

No, people complained that most, if not every mass-produced CHUG Ironhide has been poorly made, regardless of whether it was toon/toy accurate.

Funny, from what I saw everyone was clamouring for Earthrise Ironhide/Ratchet, especially as an Australian based collector and how hard they were to acquire if you could afford them.

But then, what would I know...

They were the only show in town, but that doesn't mean people were enamored with them. There was a significant amount of criticism of the feet, for example.

Emerje wrote:

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:The T-30 MOLD is actually fine. The color scheme is the problem. I got over TR Kup's color scheme, but t-30 Arcee is just inappropriate. Then legends sells for $70+

But she's the same colors as Bee Movie Arcee who's also the completely wrong design in every way.

primalxconvoy wrote:Partsforming isn't a problem. I believe those that would have a problem with it (regarding this specific character) would firmly bed in the minority, as G1 fans understand the context.

Understanding the context doesn't mean the context is a good idea! As far as I'm concerned there's nothing more offensive in a modern Transformer than unnecessary parts forming (not part of the play pattern like Weaponizers or forming armor like Ultra Magnus who is still a complete figure or vehicle without the trailer). On my Earthrise figures they stay on their backs, I don't need them to be anything other than backpacks, the ones that came with the MPs are still in the boxes. I'd rather see that extra plastic go to giving me a better figure, though SS86 Ironhide completely failed us there so I don't know if Hasbro has any real answer to making the perfect Ironhide. Maybe Leader Class?

Emerje

If partsforming was not indicate of the original figure, then I would agree. With Ironhide, I cannot accept your position. I believe such an addition would be a welcomed addition to the figure.

primalxconvoy wrote:They were the only show in town, but that doesn't mean people were enamored with them. There was a significant amount of criticism of the feet, for example.

Ah come on. Those feet were not so bad. They only needed to be replaced with custom 3D printed parts that cost almost as much as the figure itself.

Burn wrote:there's just no pleasing some of you people.

That's all you need to have said as I say this all the time..

primalxconvoy wrote:If partsforming was not indicate of the original figure, then I would agree. With Ironhide, I cannot accept your position. I believe such an addition would be a welcomed addition to the figure.

But the original figure wasn't a complete figure itself, nor was it ever intended to be. It had a window for a torso because it was just a bipedal vehicle rather than a full robot like the others, it didn't even have a head. I really don't know why anyone would want to homage anything about a figure that was just a novelty of its time and required a massive design overhaul just to be palatable as a character.

Emerje

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Burn wrote:there's just no pleasing some of you people.

That's all you need to have said as I say this all the time..

I'm still getting accustomed to this whole being able to say what I actually feel thing.

Emerje wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:If partsforming was not indicate of the original figure, then I would agree. With Ironhide, I cannot accept your position. I believe such an addition would be a welcomed addition to the figure.

But the original figure wasn't a complete figure itself, nor was it ever intended to be. It had a window for a torso because it was just a bipedal vehicle rather than a full robot like the others, it didn't even have a head. I really don't know why anyone would want to homage anything about a figure that was just a novelty of its time and required a massive design overhaul just to be palatable as a character.

Emerje

I was about to say, the original figure wasn't a robot in disguise, it was a mech for some human figure to control.
As cute as it would be to attempt something more toy-accurate, it would look very out of place amongst fellow transmorphers.
The battle platform was nothing more than something to give the otherwise flimsy looking mech some sort of firepower...
But ol' rough and tough Ironhide ain't need none of those shenanigans!

The colors on T30 Arcee are pretty different. I don't find them too offputting, but I can see why someone would want something closer to the cartoon colors.

Ironhide's sled ...

To make it look like that almost-never-used animation model most of the toy would have to needlessly partsform. I'm glad he actually transforms. I have my complaints about the figure, but the lack of a sled ain't one.

Emerje wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:If partsforming was not indicate of the original figure, then I would agree. With Ironhide, I cannot accept your position. I believe such an addition would be a welcomed addition to the figure.

But the original figure wasn't a complete figure itself, nor was it ever intended to be. It had a window for a torso because it was just a bipedal vehicle rather than a full robot like the others, it didn't even have a head. I really don't know why anyone would want to homage anything about a figure that was just a novelty of its time and required a massive design overhaul just to be palatable as a character.

Emerje

Because it was positive part of the figure's design. It's not rocket science. We could equally say that we "don't know why anyone would want to homage the G1 cartoon look that was just the novelty of its time and requires a massive design overall just to adhere to a certain aesthetic".

It's about time that Hasbro made a decent CHUG Ironhide that includes design cues from both the original toy and other sources. Partsforming is simply not a problem, if included to meet this specific need.

primalxconvoy wrote:We could equally say that we "don't know why anyone would want to homage the G1 cartoon look that was just the novelty of its time and requires a massive design overall just to adhere to a certain aesthetic".

Except the cartoon design isn't just a "novelty of its time" since it's become Ironhide's most iconic and most definitive character design, with all of G1 Ironhide's later appearances based directly on it is some fashion. It usurped the toy's design in iconography a long time ago.

Guys, quit with the shed. If you really need one, buy earthrise or an upgrade kit

Sabrblade wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:We could equally say that we "don't know why anyone would want to homage the G1 cartoon look that was just the novelty of its time and requires a massive design overall just to adhere to a certain aesthetic".

Except the cartoon design isn't just a "novelty of its time" since it's become Ironhide's most iconic and most definitive character design, with all of G1 Ironhide's later appearances based directly on it is some fashion. It usurped the toy's design in iconography a long time ago.

Except it has. The previous MP lines took inspiration from a variety of sources, until Takara made the error of going "full anime". That's one of the reasons why many collectors moved away from official MPs to 3P versions and why criticism has been specifically given by the community regarding the toon-only aesthetic.

My points stand.

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:Guys, quit with the shed. If you really need one, buy earthrise or an upgrade kit

Although I would love an add-on kit, not everyone has access to upgrade kits (lack of paypal, geo-location, etc). You might want to think before postilating such a "let them eat cake" response in the future.

primalxconvoy wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:We could equally say that we "don't know why anyone would want to homage the G1 cartoon look that was just the novelty of its time and requires a massive design overall just to adhere to a certain aesthetic".

Except the cartoon design isn't just a "novelty of its time" since it's become Ironhide's most iconic and most definitive character design, with all of G1 Ironhide's later appearances based directly on it is some fashion. It usurped the toy's design in iconography a long time ago.

Except it has. The previous MP lines took inspiration from a variety of sources, until Takara made the error of going "full anime". That's one of the reasons why many collectors moved away from official MPs to 3P versions and why criticism has been successfully given by the community regarding the toon-only aesthetic.

My points stand.

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote:Guys, quit with the shed. If you really need one, buy earthrise or an upgrade kit

Not everyone has access to upgrade kits. You might want to think before postilating such a "let them eat cake" response in the future.

We all get by now you want your precious sled. Just give it up man, we're tired of it. And they say I have an additude.....

RodimusPrimeUkraine1 wrote: Something, something, I have an additude and you should just do what I want you to.

I have time for those with a different point of view. I have no time for those telling me what to do. Welcome to the block list.

I wonder if Diaclone Reboot might be where Takara will give us a more toy-accurate "Ironhide", I think that would be fun.
It'll probably not use the OG Onebox aesthetic at all but I guess they might use TF MP for a 'toon 'Hide and DR for a toy 'Hide.
And/or Ratch'

SpaceEagle wrote:I wonder if Diaclone Reboot might be where Takara will give us a more toy-accurate "Ironhide", I think that would be fun.
It'll probably not use the OG Onebox aesthetic at all but I guess they might use TF MP for a 'toon 'Hide and DR for a toy 'Hide.
And/or Ratch'

primalxconvoy wrote:Because it was positive part of the figure's design. It's not rocket science. We could equally say that we "don't know why anyone would want to homage the G1 cartoon look that was just the novelty of its time and requires a massive design overall just to adhere to a certain aesthetic".

One was never intended to be a complete robot and is rarely used in media, the other is an iconic design that's often repeated in media and figures, hardly a novelty.

The only homage I could go for to the original toy is War Within Ironhide.


Emerje

Emerje wrote:One was never intended to be a complete robot and is rarely used in media, the other is an iconic design that's often repeated in media and figures, hardly a novelty.

The only homage I could go for to the original toy is War Within Ironhide.


Emerje

Incorrect. The majority of depictions have gone for a design that takes inspiration from various toy, comic and other areas. It has rarely, if any, been 100% toon-accurate.

My point stands.

primalxconvoy wrote:

Emerje wrote:One was never intended to be a complete robot and is rarely used in media, the other is an iconic design that's often repeated in media and figures, hardly a novelty.

The only homage I could go for to the original toy is War Within Ironhide.


Emerje

Incorrect. The majority of depictions have gone for a design that takes inspiration from various toy, comic and other areas. It has rarely, if any, been 100% toon-accurate.

My point stands.

I don't know if I'd really go that far. The majority of depictions do largely lean towards the 'toon depiction, from Marvel to IDW. There's some fun callbacks here and there, but it's primarily the 'toon design that takes front and centre stage. Marvel did use the toy design for one issue before just straight up using the 'toon design, and IDW has also largely stuck to the 'toon design. Sometimes they even abandon the toy's Onebox design to go for a generic SUV. (I'm not really trying to count designs that took inspiration from Bayverse's Ironhide, but even future "Geewun"-friendly series like Animated or War for Cybertron likewise stuck to the 'toon for Ironhide's depiction.)
Same goes for Ratchet, which is kinda funny seeing that the sled would've at least made sense for a field medic to have so he can help patients readily, heh.

primalxconvoy wrote:

Emerje wrote:One was never intended to be a complete robot and is rarely used in media, the other is an iconic design that's often repeated in media and figures, hardly a novelty.

The only homage I could go for to the original toy is War Within Ironhide.


Emerje

Incorrect. The majority of depictions have gone for a design that takes inspiration from various toy, comic and other areas. It has rarely, if any, been 100% toon-accurate.

My point stands.

I never said they were 100% toon-accurate, I said they repeated the iconic design, which they do. If it has two arms, two legs, a head with a mohawk and a big window chest and NO sled then it's following the iconic look of the cartoon and marvel comics.

Emerje