The Energon Pub

[fenrir72]

BeastWars MP Dinobot cheats too with the pseudo head on his chest. Not hearing any complaints there.

[Qwan]

Completely cheating the conversion just to get it that little bit closer (and even then only from the front) seems like it defeats the entire point of a Transformer.

This is actually a really good point too. Sure this new Optimus is mega-accurate from some angles, but it's also so obvious that his back is covered in panelly kibble. Say whatever you like about MP-10's proportions, but that thing looks good from basically every angle - such minimal kibble that it really doesn't look like it could transform!

Prime 3.0, in theory, should look even less like he's capable of transforming since there are so many changes between modes. But the difference is the abundance of panels, flaps and gaps that look to be adorning the back-side like a set of scales, making it so painfully obvious that he turns into something else and kinda ruining the whole illusion they're going for. Like, are we really just going to keep glossing over this?

[Emerje]

what i dont get is all this cartoon accuracy for the robot but yet still make the truck realistic
they should make the truck mode cartoon accurate as well

giphy-6-300x231.gif

How is that any different from all of the other MPs that have realistic alt modes and cartoon accurate bot modes? This is the primary reason why he has the "fake" windows, real trucks have windshield wipers while Optimus doesn't have them in bot mode. I really don't see much difference between OP 3.0 and Sunstreaker with fake chests for cartoon accuracy and more realistic alt modes.

Emerje

[Ironhidensh]

Like, are we really just going to keep glossing over this?

As long as the end result is as fantastic as Megatron and Sunstreaker? Yes.

[fenrir72]

Completely cheating the conversion just to get it that little bit closer (and even then only from the front) seems like it defeats the entire point of a Transformer.

This is actually a really good point too. Sure this new Optimus is mega-accurate from some angles, but it's also so obvious that his back is covered in panelly kibble. Say whatever you like about MP-10's proportions, but that thing looks good from basically every angle - such minimal kibble that it really doesn't look like it could transform!

Prime 3.0, in theory, should look even less like he's capable of transforming since there are so many changes between modes. But the difference is the abundance of panels, flaps and gaps that look to be adorning the back-side like a set of scales, making it so painfully obvious that he turns into something else and kinda ruining the whole illusion they're going for. Like, are we really just going to keep glossing over this?

Aaaw you gonna get him just the same

[ExciKaiser]

Have you seen what the animations did to the bw characters? dinobots dino head literally detaches from his body model and then gets squished almost flat... you can't do that sort of thing with plastic, same goes for cheetor and rattrap

Yes, but my point is : we all know animation adapts the toys.
Cheating in order to match the animation cheats is a wrong idea on my opinion.

Masterpieces should be a fine balance between alt mode respect and animation accuracy. What is on the chest of dinobot should be the dinosaur head even if not 100% accurate to the show.
We reached a point in MP now where there's no piece of the alt mode ending in the robot mode. MP dinobot could totally transform into a car and still keep the same robot mode they did.

[ZeroWolf]

That was true originally but now the masterpiece line is all about 100% cartoon accuracy, as technology has progressed to where it's capable to do such a thing. What you want is toy accuracy more or less

[Evil Eye]

That was true originally but now the masterpiece line is all about 100% cartoon accuracy, as technology has progressed to where it's capable to do such a thing. What you want is toy accuracy more or less

I get that, but I for one really don't think that's a good thing, nor a thing to be supported. The MP line, even accounting for the improvements in technology, was never supposed to be "the cartoon models in 3D"- it was always "The essence of the character distilled into a modern, good-looking toy" as I believe Hasui put it. Makes me wonder how Megatron would have looked under Hasui.

Meh. I think I'll either get MP-10 or that Prime being made by Magic Square.

[ExciKaiser]

What you want is toy accuracy more or less

No, I want alt-mode respect.

Alt mode parts should not be hidden in order to be replaced by a "more cartoon accurate part".

Toys which do that are no longer transformers. They're somewhere between Popples and RPMs.

They're not really different than this, with more articulation :

31AXMwMlIQL.jpg (11.96 KiB) Viewed 32743 times

It's because Optimus got his truck cab on chest that he got his iconic looking (even if animators stylized it). Witthout the alt mode parts, transformers woould haven't looked the same, that's what define them. Hidding this part to match the impossible animation looks is completely betraying the original idea behind transformers.

If you wonder, yes I also hate most of the movies toys for the same Reason, CGI animators made impossible transformations (with so little altmode parts showing that all the bots look the same) that the toy try to reach by cheating even more.

[ZeroWolf]

That was true originally but now the masterpiece line is all about 100% cartoon accuracy, as technology has progressed to where it's capable to do such a thing. What you want is toy accuracy more or less

I get that, but I for one really don't think that's a good thing, nor a thing to be supported. The MP line, even accounting for the improvements in technology, was never supposed to be "the cartoon models in 3D"- it was always "The essence of the character distilled into a modern, good-looking toy" as I believe Hasui put it. Makes me wonder how Megatron would have looked under Hasui.

Meh. I think I'll either get MP-10 or that Prime being made by Magic Square.

Oh I wasn't arguing one way or the other, it will be easier for me to get a past masterpiece prime than this one. I was simply stating what the line is now. Though there is discussion there on how we ended up from the origins of the line to now, fan demand is one possibility there, very vocal demand at that. The question could be, for now at least, how long will this view last? Will Takara change designers and suddenly a new ethos will take hold, resulting in another prime? How long will that one last?

All I will say is that I'm glad people have a choice if the other primes bugged them that much.

[shajaki]

All this talk about what the line is and isn't.... isn't it whatever they say it is, whenever they say it? It's their thing, and (clearly) they can change it however they see fit.

[ZeroWolf]

What you want is toy accuracy more or less

No, I want alt-mode respect.

Alt mode parts should not be hidden in order to be replaced by a "more cartoon accurate part".

Toys which do that are no longer transformers. They're somewhere between Popples and RPMs.

They're not really different than this, with more articulation :

31AXMwMlIQL.jpg

It's because Optimus got his truck cab on chest that he got his iconic looking (even if animators stylized it). Witthout the alt mode parts, transformers woould haven't looked the same, that's what define them. Hidding this part to match the impossible animation looks is completely betraying the original idea behind transformers.

If you wonder, yes I also hate most of the movies toys for the same Reason, CGI animators made impossible transformations (with so little altmode parts showing that all the bots look the same) that the toy try to reach by cheating even more.

There's a lot of alt mode parts in the movie designs, especially the first trilogy. ILM worked hard to make sure everything had a place to go in both modes. The autobots in the first film are examples of this, each also looks nothing like each other and have distinctive silhouettes. The newer films are probably more what you are on about but it wasn't that way at first.

[Cyberpath]

Makes me wonder how Megatron would have looked under Hasui.

I wonder what Hasui thinks about the new MPs.

A couple years ago I kind of had the feeling that he wished he'd made MP-10 even more cartoon-accurate. Just a hunch based on how he posed his smokestacks in his most recent photos of the figure.

Could be just an oversight. (Although it's also toy-accurate.) Shame he doesn't tweet anymore.

All this talk about what the line is and isn't.... isn't it whatever they say it is, whenever they say it? It's their thing, and (clearly) they can change it however they see fit.

Yeah, this is probably my least favourite part of a new MP, all the over-analysing. My favourite part is when it finally comes out and everyone says it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Nah, don't really mind either way.

Funny, MP-1 had MP-5.. MP-35th anniversary has MP-36.. only MP-10 doesn't have an official counterpart.

(MP-36+ isn't really it, since MP-10 isn't supposed to represent the original toy in that manner.)

[Ironhidensh]

I've learned not to criticize an MP until I have it in hand.

[Qwan]

All this talk about what the line is and isn't.... isn't it whatever they say it is, whenever they say it? It's their thing, and (clearly) they can change it however they see fit.

I agree with you there, but I think it's more discussion about what people would prefer the line to be. It is admittedly frustrating and confusing when a line originally stated to have one goal changes objectives in the middle, without ever completing its original purpose.

A couple years ago I kind of had the feeling that he wished he'd made MP-10 even more cartoon-accurate. Just a hunch based on how he posed his smokestacks in his most recent photos of the figure.

It might also be that his MP-10 is a little old now, and the smokestacks don't stay pushed up any more. Mine is in that state too, personally. Though it does look to be in otherwise great condition in those photos so maybe it was intentional - who knows.

[bigcee66]

Well it’s going for cartoon accuracy. We all know it didn’t start that way, but now it is, and as a person that grew up watching the original cartoon i’m 100% in favor of it. It’s the new direction. Don’t like, then don’t buy is all that can be said.

[Wolfman Jake]

Every long-running toyline changes as time goes on. Even if you trace the modern "Generations" retail line all the way back to "Classics" in 2006, you'll find the design team and philosophy has changed many times over. We went from "modern" updates of G1 characters to a celebration of the entire Transformers franchise, to just Deluxe figures, to a downsizing of all size classes, to another tribute to all things Transformers (focusing primarily on IDW comics designs), and then back to G1 redux, keeping closer to the G1 designs than Classics but providing updated toy engineering and sensibilities. The Masterpiece line has changed hands a few times now too, with different directors and designers taking the lead. Of course the vision and mission statement is going to change. The Masterpiece line has been going on since around the Classics era of Generations.

I get that, but I for one really don't think that's a good thing, nor a thing to be supported. The MP line, even accounting for the improvements in technology, was never supposed to be "the cartoon models in 3D"- it was always "The essence of the character distilled into a modern, good-looking toy" as I believe Hasui put it.

That hasn't really been true since MP-10, though. That was a very concerted effort to make the figures look a lot more screen accurate. No one likes the way the Seekers turned out before (MP-3, etc.). MP-1 Optimus was too big and had wonky proportions too. Megatron was far from what anyone wanted in terms of looks and quality. With MP-10 forward, the idea was to make G1 characters with their original licensed alt modes (or use characters that don't need licensing) and robot modes that looked mostly like the on-screen models. They weren't trying to make toy accurate robot modes or detailing by any stretch of the imagination. Although a lot of character choices were originally constrained by what licenses Takara could get, most of the characters they did didn't need a lot of fudging or compromise to get a reasonably good looking robot mode out of a real car or whatever. Now they're onto the harder stuff like Sunstreaker, Megatron, and the Beast Wars cast, and more "cheats" are needed. They've always preferred the cartoon look of characters since MP-10, and now they have to work harder to do so, though they also have learned new techniques to make such possible. Everything about how the Masterpiece line has changed over the years makes perfect sense. It would never have been this popular and long-lived if they had stayed with the original design vision from MP-1 through 8 or 9.

I've learned not to criticize an MP until I have it in hand.

Wise words, my friend.

[Cyberpath]

Google Translate --

A noteworthy new item will appear in "Masterpiece" which is the highest peak brand of Takara Tomy's transformer toy.

Characters that are keenly developing for the release in 2019, you know! First animation "Fight! Super robot living body Transformers "It is the first general commander convoy of Cybertron. Convoy which has been commercialized twice in the past as "MP-1 Convoy" and "MP-10 Convoy", but in "version 3" this time, the tire of the leg at robot mode In particular, noteworthy is the fact that the anime's reproducibility has increased to the limit by the startling deformation mechanism in which no common parts are found in the vehicle mode and the robot mode in the case of the vehicle mode).
In addition, it is said that a voice gimmick containing a lot of voices of Mr. Gengada Toru who was in charge of the voice of the first convoy is included. I am looking forward to it, but I will inform you about detailed product specifications with hobby web, so please look forward to it !!

DATA

Transformers Masterpiece Convoy (Ver3)

Price: TBD
Scheduled to be released in 2019
Target age 15 years and older
Publisher: Takara Tomy

※ The picture is under development

Source: http://hobby.dengeki.com/news/585258/

[Epsilon Delta]

I always figured (get it) the MP line was for collectors. Some want an updated Prime you (MP1/MP10). Some want the cartoon come to life. I like that we are all getting what we want and hopefully many more.

[fenrir72]

Oh SCRAP! He's got electronics! Please let it be with Roller or the Combat deck trailer and not be in the truck cab!

[Burn]

Oh SCRAP! He's got electronics! Please let it be with Roller or the Combat deck trailer and not be in the truck cab!

noteworthy is the fact that the anime's reproducibility has increased to the limit by the startling deformation mechanism in which no common parts are found in the vehicle mode and the robot mode in the case of the vehicle mode

Sounds to me like everything folds in and out between each mode, so I'd be surprised if they could electronics into the actual truck cab.

If they do ... that may be dark magic they're messing with to pull that off.

[ZeroWolf]

A op infused with dark magic? I'll take that one please

[Cyberpath]

Don't care for voice gimmicks. Even if they were in English. Still haven't checked Megatron's. But as long as they don't interfere with the figures...

[william-james88]

Don't care for voice gimmicks. Even if they were in English. Still haven't checked Megatron's. But as long as they don't interfere with the figures...

I dont care for them either. Even if they dont interfere wth the figure, I still dislike them since they increase the price.

[Evil Eye]

I get that, but I for one really don't think that's a good thing, nor a thing to be supported. The MP line, even accounting for the improvements in technology, was never supposed to be "the cartoon models in 3D"- it was always "The essence of the character distilled into a modern, good-looking toy" as I believe Hasui put it.

That hasn't really been true since MP-10, though. That was a very concerted effort to make the figures look a lot more screen accurate. No one likes the way the Seekers turned out before (MP-3, etc.). MP-1 Optimus was too big and had wonky proportions too. Megatron was far from what anyone wanted in terms of looks and quality. With MP-10 forward, the idea was to make G1 characters with their original licensed alt modes (or use characters that don't need licensing) and robot modes that looked mostly like the on-screen models. They weren't trying to make toy accurate robot modes or detailing by any stretch of the imagination. Although a lot of character choices were originally constrained by what licenses Takara could get, most of the characters they did didn't need a lot of fudging or compromise to get a reasonably good looking robot mode out of a real car or whatever. Now they're onto the harder stuff like Sunstreaker, Megatron, and the Beast Wars cast, and more "cheats" are needed. They've always preferred the cartoon look of characters since MP-10, and now they have to work harder to do so, though they also have learned new techniques to make such possible. Everything about how the Masterpiece line has changed over the years makes perfect sense. It would never have been this popular and long-lived if they had stayed with the original design vision from MP-1 through 8 or 9.

I get what you're saying, however I'm not talking about that era of MP design- I'm talking from MP-10 through to probably MP-22. Barring maybe the Seekers, most everything from that era was updated just enough to look good and make for a decent toy whilst still immediately recognizable as the characters they were meant to be. Take Soundwave- possibly the perfect embodiment of the "golden age" of MPs. Instantly recognizable as Soundwave through and through, but modernized just enough to look a bit more realistic and refined than a straight 3D version of his cartoon model- little things like the surface detail and the use of silver instead of white. The Seekers only suffered the way they did because they were based on MP-03 rather than an all-new mold.

I get that lines change direction, but when the direction it was already going after the MP-10 reboot was as solid and good-looking as it was, the sudden change in philosophy seemed very confusing and rather pointless. If it had been a separate line in the same scale but not "usurping" the production of MP-10 style MPs, I'd have zero complaints- options are always good after all. But when a perfectly good aesthetic is thrown out the window in favour of something completely different, ESPECIALLY given it meant that people who wanted an MP-10 matching Megatron had to go 3P, that just sucks.