The Energon Pub

The suggested synopsis doesn't sound bad... but neither did the general idea I had of TF:RoTF before I saw it... and, well... I don't think that turned out so great. It's not necessarily the broad strokes I'm worried about with Bay. It's the emotional and intellectual journey and story he has problems with. TF1 worked because, as Speilberg put it, "it's a boy and his car". TF2 failed because it lacked an emotional punch - and it had some pretty... ah... controversial characterizations. TF3 needs to, in my opinion, do two things: explain why Sam has moved on from Mikaela (she was such a big deal to him in two movies that this needs to be addressed) and give us a REASON to have this story happen, and a why we should care about it. TF2 already put the Autobots as mistrusted and TF1 had them "on the run" from the authorities. Also, TF2 totally gutted the Bayverse Megatron by making him a second fiddle cronie to The Fallen. The idea of Shockwave or another Decepticon coming in appeals to me, only because Megatron has been "ruined" (in terms of his non Bayverse reputation) as the "it" villain for this series. Like it or not, TF2 feels like it seriously retconned the bedrock of Bay's movieverse... or at least my perception of it.

But I'm not gonna lie. He's going to get my ten bucks come this summer.

Sycophant means an aft-kisser, like he was in the G1 series. I was just wondering if Shockwave would be more adversarial to Megs in the third Transformers film.

rotorstorm wrote:The suggested synopsis doesn't sound bad... but neither did the general idea I had of TF:RoTF before I saw it... and, well... I don't think that turned out so great. It's not necessarily the broad strokes I'm worried about with Bay. It's the emotional and intellectual journey and story he has problems with. TF1 worked because, as Speilberg put it, "it's a boy and his car". TF2 failed because it lacked an emotional punch - and it had some pretty... ah... controversial characterizations. TF3 needs to, in my opinion, do two things: explain why Sam has moved on from Mikaela (she was such a big deal to him in two movies that this needs to be addressed) and give us a REASON to have this story happen, and a why we should care about it. TF2 already put the Autobots as mistrusted and TF1 had them "on the run" from the authorities. Also, TF2 totally gutted the Bayverse Megatron by making him a second fiddle cronie to The Fallen. The idea of Shockwave or another Decepticon coming in appeals to me, only because Megatron has been "ruined" (in terms of his non Bayverse reputation) as the "it" villain for this series. Like it or not, TF2 feels like it seriously retconned the bedrock of Bay's movieverse... or at least my perception of it.

But I'm not gonna lie. He's going to get my ten bucks come this summer.

Thats why the first movie is boring as hell! What do you mean it lacked emotional punch? Not one time in the first movie when I first saw it feared for anything. I knew nothing bad would happen, because it's the first movie. They wouldn't kill off all the characters in the first movie! Megatron was not threatening at all, the idea of robots taking over earth isn't scarry for me, because I'd want that to happen! But in ROTF The Fallen wanted to blow up the sun, and IMO, the sun exploding is one of my biggest fears, and I thought some one important was going to die through the whole movie, which kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time.

Took me a second to understand your response, since you had thoughts running together about the two movies. Went ahead and separated them below so I could reply.

SlyTF1 wrote:Thats why the first movie is boring as hell...Not one time in the first movie when I first saw it feared for anything. I knew nothing bad would happen, because it's the first movie. They wouldn't kill off all the characters in the first movie! Megatron was not threatening at all, the idea of robots taking over earth isn't scarry for me, because I'd want that to happen!

The first movie worked for me because of the emotional journey that the human characters went through. The dynamic between Sam and his parents, the "fight" to "get the girl" was interesting. It had "punch" when you hear Bumblebee's electronic "screams" as his being 'subdued' by Sector 7. There was a sense of "whoa" when you see Optimus and... I forgot who it was... go flying off a highway overpass as they brawled amid speeding civilian cars.

As for robots taking over the world... I have a little movie called the Terminator you might want to see. ;P

SlyTF1 wrote:What do you mean it lacked emotional punch?... in ROTF The Fallen wanted to blow up the sun, and IMO, the sun exploding is one of my biggest fears, and I thought some one important was going to die through the whole movie, which kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time.

There was no emotional engagement, no story that I hadn't either seen before or felt drawn in by. Revenge of the Fallen just... collapsed under its own weight. Not all of the movie was an abomination, just like the first movie isn't a masterpiece. The "death" of Optimus happened in the '86 film - and I felt more emotion then than I did in here. It tugged a little at the heartstrings, sure, but it was probably the most "punch" of the movie. The Fallen is one of the problems of the movie, because it rips open a continuity where Transformers hadn't been on Earth all this time and Megatron was this scary monster who had gone missing for awhile and was now "back"... now we're supposed to accept this whole time he was the lieutenant of a bigger evil who was "next door" in our own solar system... waiting around. Glad you enjoyed the movie. I thought it was... lacking.

Both movies are just sorta mindless entertainment, and that's okay. Just chiming in.

SlyTF1 wrote:But in ROTF The Fallen wanted to blow up the sun, and IMO, the sun exploding is one of my biggest fears, and I thought some one important was going to die through the whole movie, which kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time.

The Fallen didn't want to blow it up, he wanted to harvest its energy. But the sun blowing up is something you really shouldn't worry yourself about. You're more likely to die in a fire in the theater while watching TF3.

Or being in a car accident... now that could be terrifying, killed on the way to the theatre before you get to see the movie.

It'd be funny if Sputnik ended up being a transformer.

Tytus wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:But in ROTF The Fallen wanted to blow up the sun, and IMO, the sun exploding is one of my biggest fears, and I thought some one important was going to die through the whole movie, which kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time.

The Fallen didn't want to blow it up, he wanted to harvest its energy. But the sun blowing up is something you really shouldn't worry yourself about. You're more likely to die in a fire in the theater while watching TF3.

I know, but it's one of the reasons I hate going outside. Even the sun going out would be enough to scare the crap out of me.

rotorstorm wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:What do you mean it lacked emotional punch?... in ROTF The Fallen wanted to blow up the sun, and IMO, the sun exploding is one of my biggest fears, and I thought some one important was going to die through the whole movie, which kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time.

There was no emotional engagement, no story that I hadn't either seen before or felt drawn in by. Revenge of the Fallen just... collapsed under its own weight. Not all of the movie was an abomination, just like the first movie isn't a masterpiece. The "death" of Optimus happened in the '86 film - and I felt more emotion then than I did in here. It tugged a little at the heartstrings, sure, but it was probably the most "punch" of the movie. The Fallen is one of the problems of the movie, because it rips open a continuity where Transformers hadn't been on Earth all this time and Megatron was this scary monster who had gone missing for awhile and was now "back"... now we're supposed to accept this whole time he was the lieutenant of a bigger evil who was "next door" in our own solar system... waiting around. Glad you enjoyed the movie. I thought it was... lacking.

Both movies are just sorta mindless entertainment, and that's okay. Just chiming in.

Maybe it was because I wasnt alive at the time the G1 movie came out, but when I saw Optimus die in that I didn't get sad. I was just...confused. I didn't know weather to be mad or let it go. Not mad because he died, but mad because Hasbro killed him just to make money! They replace him and all the other Autobots with dumbass crappy robots. But in ROTF I was sad for Optimus, especially when they dropped him off the helicopter like a piece of crap, It made me hate Galloway even more. I wanted the Autobots to blow his head off all over the damn screen.

Now, The Fallen, I always thought that he drawed The Allspark to earth, because it had some kind of connection to the Primes, and he put it on earth so it would be easier for Megatron to find. And like I said, I didn't find Megatron as a threat at all in the first movie. Just the bad guy who's going to lose, because I already knew he was.

Another thing that I found emotional about the movie, two words...the score.

I didn't like the score in the first movie that much. Even when I thought it was my favorite movie ever, I still didn't like the score.

Only thing I didn't like about the Fallen was that he was so easily took out by Optimus when Megatron was able to kill Optimus.

SlyTF1 wrote:Maybe it was because I wasnt alive at the time the G1 movie came out, but when I saw Optimus die in that I didn't get sad. I was just...confused. I didn't know weather to be mad or let it go. Not mad because he died, but mad because Hasbro killed him just to make money! They replace him and all the other Autobots with dumbass crappy robots. But in ROTF I was sad for Optimus, especially when they dropped him off the helicopter like a piece of crap, It made me hate Galloway even more. I wanted the Autobots to blow his head off all over the damn screen.

It's not really something to be pissed about, considering the toy sales are what funded the show. I also happen to like a lot of the movie guys, but that's just a matter of different tastes.

SlyTF1 wrote:Now, The Fallen, I always thought that he drawed The Allspark to earth, because it had some kind of connection to the Primes, and he put it on earth so it would be easier for Megatron to find.

But... ask yourself why an ubervillain would wait millennia for one guy to return when they could've gone in and gotten it when Earth was technologically less advanced and organized...

SlyTF1 wrote:And like I said, I didn't find Megatron as a threat at all in the first movie. Just the bad guy who's going to lose, because I already knew he was.

Well, that's pretty much a given in any movie like this.

SlyTF1 wrote:Another thing that I found emotional about the movie, two words...the score.

I didn't like the score in the first movie that much. Even when I thought it was my favorite movie ever, I still didn't like the score.

-shrug- Didn't noticed anything more about the second over the first, other then Linkin Park getting worse and worse...

Soooooo. About that trailer. (spoilers)*

Who do you think the gold 'bot is? For some reason the face reminds me slightly of a gold movie O.P. Does that mean it's Ultra Magnus?

*yes I realize a spoiler alert is not really needed in a spoilered thread. but, just in case...

Click here for picture.

I think its intriguing... someone mentioned Sputnik, and after having played Call of Duty: Black Ops the idea of a "secret world history" from the sixties on is appealing... Would like to see how this interrelates to the other films now. Hopefully, like Green Lantern, it will not suck.

rotorstorm wrote:Hopefully, like Green Lantern, it will not suck.

I was not aware Green Lantern is going to suck.

Anyway, so if I understand it right... They're playing off the moon landing conspiracy somewhat. Instead of showing actual footage of them taking off, they showed fake footage and gave the excuse of the ship going around the dark side of the moon for the radio silence. Instead, they explored the TF ship (which was near the landing site), took off, and "resumed" radio communication. They were clearly not on the dark side of the moon because of the Earth looming in the shot showing the TF ship for the first time.

The GL trailer looks pretty questionable to me... I like Ryan Reynolds, but this movie, the more I see of it, worries me. Costume is awful CGI'd on instead of real, special effect of him "flashing" into costume in front of his friend was pretty blatant bad CG. Abin Sur looked great, and I've got my fingers crossed.... but lingering doubts.

And yeah, I would say that your guestimate about the trailer is pretty much right.

That CG probably isn't the finished effect though. And I wouldn't take one bad CG suit to mean the movie'll suck. As long as the rest of it is good. Plus I'll bet that suit wasn't easy to pull off in CG. Anyway

1.) They showed the same costume at Comic Con, and after tepid reaction they backpedalled and claimed "it was a work in progress".

2.) They showed THE SAME SUIT DESIGN in a FINISHED, HIGH PROFILE TRAILER. Their work in progress was apparently "done". This is doubly a poor marketing and fx direction decision. NEVER show unfinished CG or FX in a normal or "teaser" trailer... advance fan screening is one thing... this is another. The public is not going to be so forgiving when its in a commercial or even worse on a big theatre screen and looks terrible.

3.) They went with a CGI suit without a good reason, which means it was a flight of whimsy and not because of a serious design choice/need. If you're going to do something "new" for "fun", and in particular when its for the main character in a high profile, high budget tent pole fx driven movie... dangnabit do it right.

4.) Sets and imagery from trailer generally looks BAD... like... Ally McBeal sets bad.

That said, I still really look forward to the movie and hope it does not suck. Sorry to derail the thread... back on topic after this (unless there's more to add for you?)... I promise!

Last derail:

First of all, I saw the suit on the HP 7.1 trailer and I thought it looked better than it did online. It was pretty fast though.

Also, it's not that unusual for trailers to have unfinished CG. Bay said the CG in the TF one was at best 80% done.

I think if they went with a regular old-fashioned suit and the rest of the alien characters had CG suits the regular suit would stand out (or outshine the CG ones).

And I think the general public is going to be more forgiving of a less than perfect CG than we are. How else did movies like GI Joe turn a profit?

That said, maybe the movie will suck. I just hope not...

And on topic:

Is that ship possibly where the first movie Autobots were prior to the first movie?

I don't think so, only because they all show up before the sixties... I always got the sense their arrival to Earth was more immediate then a forty year pit stop on Luna. But... it could be knowing how TF2 reinvented the first movie's "established canon"...