Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

News Credits: 1 · by **Powersa** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:29 pm

Nice.
Lio Convoy is one of the best.

News Credits: 2 · by **TFBuyer** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:36 pm

Counterpunch wrote:
TFBuyer wrote:Well, that's too bad about the Hidden Treasures piece...I submitted one on BM Hammerstrike that never saw the light of day...

As far as I knew, there were a lot of submissions...

Hmm. Well, let's hope someone stumbles on all of them sometime. I really enjoyed reading about those figs. Mostly because I thought it was interesting to see what other collectors saw as "hidden treasures."

Razorclaw0000 wrote:
TFBuyer wrote:Well, that's too bad about the Hidden Treasures piece...I submitted one on BM Hammerstrike that never saw the light of day...

Anyway, a nice idea here, though! Looking forward to following along until Christmas!

Hammerstrike is one of my favorite BM figures.

Yeah, mine too! I originally wanted to do a review of BM Longhorn, but there wasn't a gallery of him, so I went with the next best thing.

Counterpunch wrote:
Mykltron wrote:Does Lio Convoy have a corresponding Megatron? By corresponding, I'm not referring to a pen-pal.

Galvatron

Man, that Galvatron is a hoot to toy around with. Sort of a fun, weir figure all in one.

News Credits: 7 · by **Chaoslock** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:47 pm

Laser Prime was a fine choice for first, (although I'd hoped he would rank higher, it is an awesome toy, and was well worth the 40$ I payed for it)

Also, the Primal-Lio Convoy pic looks REALLY wrong

I wonder which place masterpieces will hold...

by **Autobot Strider** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:01 pm

Blurrz wrote:Plus, how awesome would it be to do this.

And so did the Planet of the Apes conquer the Planet of the Lions, and they made the Lions their primary mode of transportation. Thus was born ApeLion cavalry, the most feared and bizarre union of animal and animal in the known universe.

*ahem*. Sorry I had to.

But yeah, another very solid choice! I only really dabbled in Beast Wars, etc., but what you say about this toy is true. Very impressive!

News Credits: 1452 · by **Blurrz** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:34 am

Moving along then. With this selection.. I've clearly established that this is actually the Top 25 Transformers of all time, not the Top 25 Primes of all time.

#23 - Alternators Smokescreen

The first modern Transformer to hit the list is not really a singular selection. While I have chosen Smokescreen, really any Alternator could have made the list. The reason it is Smokescreen is because he's #1 in the series, both in Binaltech and Alternators. The great thing about Alternators is that it was revolutionary. It took real life car designs and made them actually transform into our favourite Transformers. Arguably one of the most intriguing fact about Alternators is that it was a fully-licensed toy line. Most of the car companies known to man were able to take differences aside - combining into this vast toy line.

However with such good conditions, why don't we see a similar Alternators being produced by Hasbro to this day? Somehow, Alternators was never as successful as it should have been. Perhaps it was the licensing costs, or just some odd calculations, but the price point for Alternators was about the price of an Ultra Figure - freaking expensive. Maybe distribution was as bad as some people were making it to be. Either way, Alternators died a slow and quiet death.

In my opinion, Alternators was just a toy line that was produced at the wrong time. Transformers was not popular enough during the mid 2000s, simply because there wasn't enough buyers to sustain the costs of so many Alternators. If you saw Alternators released after the Transformers fandom boomed from the two movies, then Alternators would be selling like hot cakes. Look at the Human Alliance figures that we've been getting recently. Relatively at the same price point, and they are the saving grace of Revenge of the Fallen. One of the reasons Hasbro hasn't dished out Human Alliance figures out like hot cakes is because the failure of Alternators providing a deterrence.

Now onto the figure. There isn't a dynamic gallery of Alternators Smokescreen in the site's galleries. However I'm not selling it short because even if a gallery on Seibertron is minuscule, it's still freaking awesome.

The alternate mode exhibits one of the key components to Alternators. Just inspiring. It's detailed. It really looks like something you'd see in real life. In fact IT IS something you see in real life.

Sadly this is likely the first and last time we'll see such licensing on Transformers from so many different companies. Moving on to the Robot mode. This is possibly the only flaw of Alternators. While Smokescreen doesn't exactly exhibit what I'm about to say, the rest of Alternators had it - improper proportions. Not something I usually like to complain about when it comes to Transformers, but fans can gripe about it. Another flaw would have to be that Alternators genuinely lack balance. I think the picture below describes what I'm getting at.

With the bad, there is also the good. I think the saving grace for Alternators, especially Smokescreen is the beautiful and complex transformation. It's just what you come to expect from toys. It's cost is aimed at Adults, it's probably meant to be bought by Adults and heck the figure's transformation, the main component to everything toy-related in our fandom, should be on the level for Adults.

The influence that Smokescreen and the rest of the Alternators has brought upon the future of Transformers is pretty dynamic in both Takara and Hasbros' transformers. Takara has strived with Alternity (even though the Suzuki Swift Robot Mode looks like a Pregnant lady), and like I said before, Human Alliance is probably the most profitable sub toy line of Revenge of the Fallen, and who knows what that means for future pairings of Transformers and Humans.

What I'm trying to get here is that.. if you're going to ever dig deep, get Smokescreen. He's the best of them all.

Did Smokescreen deserve #23? Let me know!

Till we meet again.... aka tomorrow.
~Blurrz

That Smokescreen + HA Bumblebee picture is actually just pure dumb luck. I was fishing in the galleries to see if Ryan actually did something to recognize the relationship between HA and Alternators.. and bingo...

News Credits: 217 · by **Diem** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:43 am

I admire the passion and intelligence of pick number 23. Despite that, I'm a non-fan of Alternators/Binaltech (except for Binaltech Tracks); perhaps the only non-fan here from what I've read, and I have a few more issues with them: they're frequently underarmed, transformation from robot to car mode is often fiddly, repaints were too frequent early in the line (I know it was necessary but that doesn't stop it being bad), figures were either shelfwarmers or super-rare, they're a little too large to represent "typical"-sized figures, and the percentage of Autobots to Decepticons was ludicrous until late in the line.

Please no-one take this rant personally. I'm just blowin' off steam.

by **Autobot Strider** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:12 am

Even though the Alternators line was flawed (for reasons stated above) and suffered numerous setbacks (car companies that just didn't want to play) it is far and above my favorite TF toyline. I only wish that I'd had more money when they were in store; I would have bought more of them. I love that their alternate modes can pass for model cars; my wife doesn't mind them being prominently displayed about the house as long as they look like cars and not robots...

It lets them get out of the man cave a bit. Plus, in most cases, the strong ties to their G1 versions is a big selling point for me. I agree that they would do far better in today's market (given a better distribution schedule) than they did when they were released. I guess they were just ahead of their time!

While I don't own Smokescreen, I agree that he's a perfect poster boy for the line. He was #1, his deco is among the most detailed I've ever seen, and both of his modes evoke an homage to his G1 version. Great choice!

News Credits: 609 · by **Razorclaw0000** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:31 am

I've got to disagree with you Blurrz. Smokescreen had a lot of problems (the worst chipping on any BT, those terrible legs, the poorly designed steering system, and so on).

The real gem of the early Alternators is Meister/Jazz. The legs are significantly better, he has a better weapon, the steering system isn't quite so delicate.

News Credits: 2 · by **TFBuyer** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:02 am

Razorclaw0000 wrote:I've got to disagree with you Blurrz. Smokescreen had a lot of problems (the worst chipping on any BT, those terrible legs, the poorly designed steering system, and so on).

The real gem of the early Alternators is Meister/Jazz. The legs are significantly better, he has a better weapon, the steering system isn't quite so delicate.

I'd agree with you on a lot of the problems with this figure, but I'd assume Blurrz is using the "significance/influence of the figure" clause in his rules on this one. While I liked a lot of Alts a lot more than Smokescreen, nothing compared to that feeling of picking up Alt. Smokescreen in the store and knowing that it was the ONLY one out there at the time; not knowing if there would BE an Alternators line after that; not knowing what to expect. I think that being the first one and starting the awesomeness warrants the nod to Smokescreen.

I liked Meister more, too :wink:

.

News Credits: 9 · by **Hip-Hoptimus Rime** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:42 am

I can't debate Smokescreen's position on this list, but he is indeed a fantastic figure, and a good representative of the Alternators line. He was my first Alt, and on any given day might be my favorite of the 11 I have.

Smokes' biggest fault IMO, and other Alts have this problem too, is that the wheels don't tuck into the wheelwells like they should. They stick out too far in alt mode. A small complaint about an otherwise great Transformer.

News Credits: 23 · by **Prime Evil** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:41 am

I remember the day that we first got images (or was it leaked images?) of this toy. I can say that it was one of the rare moments in Tf fan history that pretty much EVERYONE was excited about and agreed on the aesthetics of the toy. Granted the toy does have it's flaws, but I can't help but still love this very figure for it's alt mode, bot mode, and transformation scheme. This was one toy that I was actually very proud to display as a collector item and not a toy. (I bought the BT version)

Great choice man, and def deserved in the top 25.

News Credits: 2 · by **Convotron** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:27 am

Oh, very nice to see an Alternators figure get into the list!

My main criticism of the BT/Alts line is that there are too few Decepticons. Aside from that, any other flaws are minor to me considering the product that we get. The line, as well as its Alternity successor, seem to be the next best thing to an MP line.

BT/Alts is the perfect line for me as I love the transformation aspect of Transformers and this line definitely provides a unique transformation design experience. I also love the way that the alt modes are licensed vehicles and have an extensive interior with seats and steering wheels.

I think Smokescreen is a great choice for this list. It's the first of the line and I think its alt mode is quite striking for the great amount of sponsor markings it has. The majority of the alt modes of the line were quite plain so I like how Smokescreen stands apart. I also have Alts Silverstreak, Meister, and Shockblast, and I love how their bot designs hearken back to the G1 carbot designs.

I think my experience with Alternators definitely help me appreciate HA BB, which is another figure I really adore, even more. There are so many shades of BT/Alts design in HA BB. I'm also a fan of Alternity, aka BT/Alts version 2.0, due to a similar overall toy design direction for the line.

Despite my enjoyment of the line, I can definitely see how it failed with the mainstream consumer demographic. It's a high end line, not only for the level of toy design but also for the transformation demands. I also can't see too many kids choosing Transformers with relatively mundane alt modes when more exciting figures are available. On the other hand, these figures definitely make great display pieces, especially in alt mode since they're so convincing as simple vehicle replicas. Robots in disguise for sure!

News Credits: 9 · by **Mykltron** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:35 am

Good choice, and I agree with Smokescreen cos as he was the first, he was the groundbreaker. I don't think he's the best of the line but he's certainly the most repainted!

by **SJ21** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:37 am

In robot mode, they are kind of fiddly to balance, but they look great on display in both modes. My favorite part about this whole line is that they are great homages to G1 characters using current cars and trucks. I jsut wih I would have been collecting when these guys were at retail.

Fantastic choice for 23!

News Credits: 11 · by **kirbenvost** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:14 pm

Counterpunch wrote:If I were fighting Lio Convoy, I would always attack him from his right side.

Heh. Y'know, out of all the Beast Convoy/Primes I'll never own, Lio Convoy's the one I would consider. Mostly because he looks the most like traditional Prime. He's pretty cool looking.

As for #23, I probably would have chosen Meister, in terms of quality, but as far as influence (and great paintjob), BT Smokescreen is tops.

News Credits: 1 · by **Powersa** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:05 pm

Glad to see Alt Smokescreen made it to top 25. One of the best paint jobs.

News Credits: 1452 · by **Blurrz** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:38 am

It's Friday tomorrow so I'm going to be writing a very, very long entry after I'm done classes. Till then...

News Credits: 7 · by **Chaoslock** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:21 pm

Interesting pick on #23... I didn't had the luck to get a Smokescreen yet, but from the Alternators, I think Shockblast is the best...

News Credits: 1452 · by **Blurrz** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:43 pm

#22 - R.I.D. Megatron

The first character from a North American Transformers cartoon and the first Megatron to hit the list comes from the R.I.D. toy line. Now, I knew that #22 might be a bit fuzzy with some of you as it was going to be a nostalgic pic. I was picking between TM2 Cheetor, TM Megatron and R.I.D. Megatron. You can tell who's won out, so the other two could be considered honourable mentions. I call R.I.D. Megatron nostalgic, because it's more of a favourite than the wisest one. For most of my early Transgeek life I was simply immersed in the culture of Beast Wars. Animals turned into Robots. Prime were beastly animals and the bad guys were Dinosaurs. There wasn't Seibertron or TFWiki or anything like at the time to realize that something called Generation One existed. And what does that mean for R.I.D.? Well I always thought Transformers had to do with animals.. when R.I.D. came along, it was the biggest surprise ever!

I always thought how weird it was for cars and trucks and the like to be able to transform into Robots. I almost lost it with Transformers for a while there, because the whole car thing was too faroff for a kid at that age to understand the change. I look back and laugh at it, but holy crap, imagine all the people dealing with the change from Generation One to the Beast Era.. Look what I had to go through! It really isn't Beast Era that is bad, or Generation One or even Robots In Disguise. It's the change that most people just cannot handle.

Onto the figure. R.I.D. Megatron, heck even R.I.D. was something that most people don't acknowledge too well. The great thing about this list is that I get to perpetuate figures back to existence. Megatron had six different modes. And I know he isn't the first to do it (and I acknowledge that!), having a toy be able to do it as a kid was remarkable.

The two-headed Dragon mode was possibly one of the best. Before I get it into itself, the colours are fascinating. It reminds me a lot of what I see on Chinese Deity statues. The black, gold, purple, and the vibrant red is eye opening.

The Jet mode is just screaming evil. I don't really have a single word to explain it, but I'm just going to call it a mix between Darth Maul's Sith Infiltrator, and something from 40K Tyranids.

The car itself looks a bit like the batmobile. It's a bit of a stretch but the mode is quite nice, integrating with the fact that his opponents are all road based.

The other two modes, the Hand and the Bat are really a stretch and don't exactly display the mold and paint job all to well, so we're going straight to Robot Mode.

The robot mode just screams out amazingly awesome. This is how a Megatron should be portrayed. Looks like a Robot Vampire, y'know when Vampires used to be cool. Sadly the production of good Megatrons just hasn't been Takara's and Hasbro's strong point lately. Most of the Megatrons that were produced after R.I.D. were just problematic and lackluster. Optimus would always be the one to get the better mold, leaving Megatron all bulky and garbage. When it comes to R.I.D., the two enemies were pretty close in terms of playability and appearances.

Repaint time. Not saying that Megatron should have been white and Galvatron Purple... I really liked that they switched it a round. Regardless of what color it is, the mold could be painted purple and green and still look aesthetically evil. As long as it isn't pink....

News Credits: 2 · by **goshjosh95** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:30 am

Blurrz wrote:#22 - R.I.D. Megatron
*snip*

I was never a big fan of the RID toon, and my RID Megs tended to have floppy feet (at least on the 2 that have passed through my collection), but I have to go with Blurrz on this one... there's something about that vampiric-looking, purple & black Megs, with those slick, fading aqua highlights on his chest, that just really pulls together for me aesthetically. Very visually stunning. His dragon mode, jet mode & bot mode definitely scream wicked bad@$$. Interesting choice that I wouldn't have considered! :APPLAUSE:

News Credits: 217 · by **Diem** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:01 am

Yes, yes so very yes.

Don't forget his double-ended sword. Or his fold-out wings. This figure is awesome. In fact, between this guy, Rail Racer and Prowl, RiD might be my favourite line.

(I love the Megatron hand. It's so bad.)

News Credits: 9 · by **Mykltron** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:03 am

Yep, Megatron is a huge amount of fun to play with. And I love the purple and black.

by **Autobot Strider** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:35 am

Ah, RID Megs... definitely a great figure. I agree that some of his modes were less "usable" and seemed to be a bit of a stretch, but the main ones (Bot, Jet, Dragon) were all top-notch. Great choice!

Diem wrote:(I love the Megatron hand. It's so bad.)

I only wish that I still had this figure and a Masterpiece Megatron... then the hand could hold the gun...

News Credits: 3 · by **Samsonator** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:53 pm

Ah, RID Megs... A figure I've always wanted, and actually technically owned once... well... most of one.
A long sad story, really... but to summarize, a friend was getting rid of old toys and had a RiD Megs he wanted to offload, but not all of his pieces were with him, so we hunted for a month for the rest of him (a foot, a claw, most if not all of his weapon parts) and found a lot of it, but then we kinda fell out of touch and I never actually brought the figure home... It's entirely possible that it still resides at his mom's place but I never go there anymore.

One day...

- Sam

News Credits: 1452 · by **Blurrz** » Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:07 am

Well it looks like I've been falling behind here a day or so. University studying has been catching up to me and my enthusiasm for T to the ransformers was drained a little... but.... TIME FOR SOME DOUBLE DOSAGE OF ADVENT CALENDER FUN!

#21 - Cybertron Hot Shot/Excellion

I just had to throw in the Unicron Trilogy's kid favourite into this list. We're talking about Hot Shot. While his Armada version was far from great and his Energon version not too great either - the Cybertron version of Hot Shot is one of my favourites and a candidate for one of the best figures of all time.

Alternate mode. This is a sleek race car. Of all the years that Hasbro's been churning out race cars as Transformers, Cybertron Hot Shot is one of their best achievements. Colors don't matter on this figure. They're not exactly the best (and we'll get to it), but still a rather impressive car nonetheless.

The Wings and the Cyberkey can be ignored. I never really liked Cyber Keys to begin with, just thought they were larger Energon Chips - aka BORING. Gun can look a bit tacky, but it's still quite nice. Then again... usually a gun on any Transformers Car makes it look crappy.

Transformation is quite easy. In fact it's quite fun, simple, and just not aggravating, compared to the transformations of some deluxes in the recent Animated and movie toylines. Robot mode might look like a brick, but it's still quite poseable. The colors are a bit... okay, screw it....

...Excellion is WAY better than Hot Shot. Maybe it's the flames or the red, or just something... it's definitely the better paint job compared to Hot Shot. The wings are genuinely necessary in Robot Mode, and the gun is pretty dynamic. The mold is basically what you want out of a Deluxe sized figure. Good articulation, decent transformation and good proportions. Excellion does quite that.

Repaint time. Botcon Goldbug is beau-ti-ful. Movie Breakaway is also a nice paintjob for this mold. Of course that's a Wal*Mart exclusive and you probably never found it during the movie craziness phase.