The Energon Pub

Ok, just to clear this up:

The Constructicons are robots that turn into construction vehicles. Devestator is like a Voltron, his components don't have an alt mode. Just because the alt. modes of the Constructicons were the same as Devestator's limbs doesn't mean they are the same thing. Hasbro made the figures correctly, which is why Devestator's limbs don't Transform into robots.

Had to post this because I'm tired of hearing people ask why Long Haul was walking around at the same time he was part of Devestator's leg.

Well that's pretty convenient for the Supreme Class Devastator Toy. To think... was Devastator like that in the movie to sell the toy? Or was the toy made to go with the movie? Either way, it would've been nice if Hasbro at least told us that, so there wouldn't be such negative connotations towards the toy.

It was still a letdown to see that the character models of more decepticons and/or their alt. modes were used twice (not just the constructicons)

I've really gotta say, Devastator being done this way was the biggest disappointment of the movie franchise so far. (I really hope the decision to do this was a toy sales decision; it doesn't make it any better, mind you, but at least I can sorta understand that.) In fact, I'd say, from the awkwardly-shaped design, to not being a gestalt entity in the traditional TF sense, MORE SPOILER(to failing to eat a bot 1/50th his size, to having said `bot burst out of his face, to showing his ponderous "testicles," to dying without doing more than, essentially, knocking down some building blocks,) Devastator was awful. He was most intricate piece of cgi ever and one of the most memorable parts of the TF multiverse, and I still had fewer problems with the Autobot twins (illiteracy, gold tooth and all). ::sigh:: Oh wells. Movie was still pretty good.

That's a good explanation, but the limbs for the Devasator toy have the same names as the individual robots sold with the same alt modes...

YRQRM0 wrote:That's a good explanation, but the limbs for the Devasator toy have the same names as the individual robots sold with the same alt modes...

That's Hasbro trying not to confuse kids.

ChronosWar wrote:I've really gotta say, Devastator being done this way was the biggest disappointment of the movie franchise so far. (I really hope the decision to do this was a toy sales decision; it doesn't make it any better, mind you, but at least I can sorta understand that.) In fact, I'd say, from the awkwardly-shaped design, to not being a gestalt entity in the traditional TF sense, MORE SPOILER(to failing to eat a bot 1/50th his size, to having said `bot burst out of his face, to showing his ponderous "testicles," to dying without doing more than, essentially, knocking down some building blocks,) Devastator was awful. He was most intricate piece of cgi ever and one of the most memorable parts of the TF multiverse, and I still had fewer problems with the Autobot twins (illiteracy, gold tooth and all). ::sigh:: Oh wells. Movie was still pretty good.

Devastator was a complete disappointment in the TV show too. Instead of being this unstoppable force, he was just really slow and really dumb.

Who was right?

Counterpunch was right.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54497

I call BS. I mean seriously why would they not make the constructicons individuals that combine into one setient being, Devastator? According to Wikipedia, they are individual robots:

* Scavenger,[114] a red Terex O&K RH 400 hydraulic mining excavator.[15][122][123] He has the same alternate mode as Demolishor, although with a different paint job. Although his toy version portrays him as being identical to Demolishor in robot mode too, his robot mode isn't seen in the movie. He forms the torso of Devastator, along with Overload.
* Mixmaster,[124] who transforms into a black and silver Mack concrete mixer truck. He forms the head.[125] He has a third "battle mode" which appears to be a gun emplacement.[126] He is an expert in chemistry and explosives who makes explosives and poisons for the other Decepticons' weapons.[127]
* Long Haul,[124] a green Caterpillar 773B dump truck, which forms the right leg.[125] Long Haul's individual robot mode was designed by freelance artist Josh Nizzi as fan art of the original character. The fan art impressed Bay enough to hire him on to the film.[128]
* Rampage,[124] a red Caterpillar D9 bulldozer who forms the left leg.[125] He also sports a third "jackhammer" mode.[129] He lives to pound his enemies into submission.[130]
* Scrapper,[114] a yellow Caterpillar 992G scoop loader who forms the right arm.[125]
* Hightower,[124] a yellow Kobelco CK2500 crawler crane and forms the left arm.[125]
* Overload, a red articulated dump truck that also forms Devastator's torso.[95][131]

Cormaster628 wrote:I call BS. I mean seriously why would they not make the constructicons individuals that combine into one setient being, Devastator? According to Wikipedia, they are individual robots:

* Scavenger,[114] a red Terex O&K RH 400 hydraulic mining excavator.[15][122][123] He has the same alternate mode as Demolishor, although with a different paint job. Although his toy version portrays him as being identical to Demolishor in robot mode too, his robot mode isn't seen in the movie. He forms the torso of Devastator, along with Overload.
* Mixmaster,[124] who transforms into a black and silver Mack concrete mixer truck. He forms the head.[125] He has a third "battle mode" which appears to be a gun emplacement.[126] He is an expert in chemistry and explosives who makes explosives and poisons for the other Decepticons' weapons.[127]
* Long Haul,[124] a green Caterpillar 773B dump truck, which forms the right leg.[125] Long Haul's individual robot mode was designed by freelance artist Josh Nizzi as fan art of the original character. The fan art impressed Bay enough to hire him on to the film.[128]
* Rampage,[124] a red Caterpillar D9 bulldozer who forms the left leg.[125] He also sports a third "jackhammer" mode.[129] He lives to pound his enemies into submission.[130]
* Scrapper,[114] a yellow Caterpillar 992G scoop loader who forms the right arm.[125]
* Hightower,[124] a yellow Kobelco CK2500 crawler crane and forms the left arm.[125]
* Overload, a red articulated dump truck that also forms Devastator's torso.[95][131]

I call BS on your editing and in referencing Wikipedia's dated material on the subject matter.

You left out this portion right before the part you address:

Frank Welker also voices Devastator, a 46 feet (14 m) tall (hunched over) massive robot formed by several combining construction vehicles known as the Constructicons, who walks in a four-legged fashion resembling a gorilla.[110] He is physically unable to stand upright, but would be 100 feet (30 m) to 120 feet (37 m) tall if he did.[109] His jaws can open up to form some sort of suction vortex, and he seems to have grappling hooks he is seen using to climb a pyramid.[50] In the first film, the name "Devastator" was mistakenly given to Brawl, a tank. In the theatrical trailer for the movie, Long Haul, Mixmaster, and two unidentified Constructicons are seen heading down to the bottom of the ocean in hunt of Megatron's corpse, ultimately reactivating their fallen leader. Devastator is destroyed by a rail gun round fired at him from a destroyer on former Agent Simmons orders. Rather than being seven individual robots, the movie suggest there's seven character classes composing the Constructicons, as multiple copies of each are seen during the movie, sometimes displaying different coloring schemes.

I have yet to see the movie but are we sure this whole theory isn't just some animation mistake? Maybe they are paying homage to G1, you know when there were like 20 starscreams in a scene, or a deceased transformer would appear out of nowhere, etc.

I think what people, and critics alike don't understand about these Transformer movies, the plotholes, and inconsistancies are intentional and pay homage to G1, lol.

Omega Supreme did the same thing: one big bot who's alt mode is several smaller vehicles. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Hey guys not trying to ruin your discussion... but was Scrapper supposedly the leader of the Constructicons? I know Mixmaster was like an arse and a mad scientist lol... and I think some dude named Hook had a crane and was condescending... but beyond that I can't remember for the life if me is Scrapper was the leader or not.

It seems more likely that Bay and company just got lazy (or cheap) and either re-used the same CGI models multiple times (placing Long Haul and Mixmaster two places at once) or that the action sequences ended up in an alternate order than they were originally intended due to editing than they than that, all along, Devastator was intended to be formed from vehicles with no individual robot modes.

Why else would the Constructicons that we saw that had individual modes and the Constructicons that formed Devastator be almost identical in coloration and vehicle type?

Why else would we have the Legends class Constructicons coming from Takara that all have an individual robot mode and merge to form Devastator?

I undertand that there's a desire to come up with logical explanations for filmmakers' mistakes, but it's been made apparent by other gaffes in both the first film and ROTF that numerous mistakes make there way into the final films (Brawl being misnamed 'Devastator', Rampage being red in the film and yellow as a toy). I'm guessing the most likely explanation is that Bay didn't figure most of the moviegoing audience would notice that particular Constructicons were both part of Devastator and in individual robot modes at the same time, in much the same way that the film totally disregarded the local geography around the Pyramids (which really stuck out in my mind since I had just visited Egypt in April).

Michael Bay really knows how to stage amazing action sequences, but continuity, either within his films or with reality, is not his strong point.

In any case, determining that the Devastator components definitely have no individual robot modes based on what was seen on screen is jumping to a premature conclusion... it's just as plausible that there are multiple identical Constructicons of several different models as there are one set that merges, one set that doesn't.

Hi, I'm new here, so cut me some slack. I just want to add that in the cartoons and comics, some characters bear the same design, the only thing that differentiate them from one another is their colors. So it is understandable that some of the robot share the same alt mode as those vehicles that form up Devastator. It would not be realistic if Bay used different colors for those construction machines. Hope this helps.. somehow.

roblinb wrote:Hey guys not trying to ruin your discussion... but was Scrapper supposedly the leader of the Constructicons? I know Mixmaster was like an arse and a mad scientist lol... and I think some dude named Hook had a crane and was condescending... but beyond that I can't remember for the life if me is Scrapper was the leader or not.

I always believed that Hook ("The Head") was the leader of the Constructicons. In all the other Gestalts, usually the transformer who is the "torso" becomes the leader of that combiner group.

metaphorge wrote:It seems more likely that Bay and company just got lazy (or cheap) and either re-used the same CGI models multiple times (placing Long Haul and Mixmaster two places at once) or that the action sequences ended up in an alternate order than they were originally intended due to editing than they than that, all along, Devastator was intended to be formed from vehicles with no individual robot modes.

Why else would the Constructicons that we saw that had individual modes and the Constructicons that formed Devastator be almost identical in coloration and vehicle type?

Why else would we have the Legends class Constructicons coming from Takara that all have an individual robot mode and merge to form Devastator?

I undertand that there's a desire to come up with logical explanations for filmmakers' mistakes, but it's been made apparent by other gaffes in both the first film and ROTF that numerous mistakes make there way into the final films (Brawl being misnamed 'Devastator', Rampage being red in the film and yellow as a toy). I'm guessing the most likely explanation is that Bay didn't figure most of the moviegoing audience would notice that particular Constructicons were both part of Devastator and in individual robot modes at the same time, in much the same way that the film totally disregarded the local geography around the Pyramids (which really stuck out in my mind since I had just visited Egypt in April).

Michael Bay really knows how to stage amazing action sequences, but continuity, either within his films or with reality, is not his strong point.

In any case, determining that the Devastator components definitely have no individual robot modes based on what was seen on screen is jumping to a premature conclusion... it's just as plausible that there are multiple identical Constructicons of several different models as there are one set that merges, one set that doesn't.

Editing! There you go, that makes the most sense really. That might be exactly what happened, though I have to see it again. Either way it was a stupid decision because it does confuse the moviegoers, myself included.

I see Mixmaster, Longhaul, and Rampage going down with Ravage on the sea to revive Megatron.

But who is that other robot that they took apart to re-build Megatron???


And can people name all the Decepticons that attacked in Egypt???

The whole devastator thing makes my head spin. I'd really like to hear from the director and writers on this subject. Is Devastator and the Constructicons seperate entities or is this all just CGI/editing slop?

Cormaster628 wrote:or a deceased transformer would appear out of nowhere, etc.

Bonecrusher cruising through the Decepticon forward advance was that homage, lol.

More seriously, people seem to be missing that from some standpoints, that the Decepticons use several multiple common forms makes sense. For an army, having something you know works well in combat or whatever other function is better than not knowing what you have to work with. Especially when your whole race is running low of supplies. They appear to save the more estoic forms for the guys that have more specialized purposes (Soundwave, Ravage, Scalpel, Frenzy in the first movie, ect).

It's even there in some of the guys that aren't entirely identical. Sideways shares many similar details with Barricade, ie.

the thing is in G1 the palette swap characters had drastically different colors and personalities. It was easy to tell the difference between Bumblebee and Cliffjumper or Starscream, Thundercracker, and Skywarp.

I had to consult the internet to find that Grindor was not an inexplicably revived Blackout.

Ragnorok64 wrote:the thing is in G1 the palette swap characters had drastically different colors and personalities. It was easy to tell the difference between Bumblebee and Cliffjumper or Starscream, Thundercracker, and Skywarp.

I had to consult the internet to find that Grindor was not an inexplicably revived Blackout.

I thought that was Blackout, I figured they revived him after Megatron took off

Swiftpaw wrote:

Cormaster628 wrote:or a deceased transformer would appear out of nowhere, etc.

Bonecrusher cruising through the Decepticon forward advance was that homage, lol.

More seriously, people seem to be missing that from some standpoints, that the Decepticons use several multiple common forms makes sense. For an army, having something you know works well in combat or whatever other function is better than not knowing what you have to work with. Especially when your whole race is running low of supplies. They appear to save the more estoic forms for the guys that have more specialized purposes (Soundwave, Ravage, Scalpel, Frenzy in the first movie, ect).

It's even there in some of the guys that aren't entirely identical. Sideways shares many similar details with Barricade, ie.

I cannot see a group of slow moving Construction vehicles being effective combat.

If they wanted that kind of clone, why didn't they do what should have been done, and clone Starscream? Because there were not enough flying Autobots and the Decepticons would have just creamed them from a safe distance. Battle would be over, short and sweet.

And yes, everyone seemed to have their clones, or close too everyone has them (except Starscream) Grindor/Blackout, whose face was copied again as the bot who took Sam's parents, even though Prime clearly already ripped his head in half in the forest battle.

I don't know, I was not impressed. And as soon as the Fallen went down, it seems that all the other Decepticons were all of the sudden gone too. I know the government rained missiles down on them, but c'mon....

Cormaster628 wrote:I have yet to see the movie but are we sure this whole theory isn't just some animation mistake? Maybe they are paying homage to G1, you know when there were like 20 starscreams in a scene, or a deceased transformer would appear out of nowhere, etc.

I think what people, and critics alike don't understand about these Transformer movies, the plotholes, and inconsistancies are intentional and pay homage to G1, lol.

LOL, maybe. Here's the same issue in a G1 cartoon--Hotspot fights alongside Defensor

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/File ... fensor.jpg

I can understand a bit of confusion perhaps, but really it's not too difficult to understand the multiple Constructicons or "clones" in "Fallen." If one looks at the toys, then maybe, but from the beginning the toys haven't always been the same as what's on a small or big screen. If someone first saw the Transformers on TV before they saw the toys, obviously there'd be some confusion as to why Ratchet and Ironhide didn't have heads, or vice versa.

Transformers Movieverse style have the ability to scan something and become it. If a bunch of Decepticons are going to try and infiltrate the army or construction sites then they are going to take some of the same forms as others of their comrades. As toys it makes sense to paint and repaint a character or characters in multiple colors to make them stand out and be noticed, to have a sense of personality, but if a Transformer is going to be made more realistic than that character is going to be the same look and color scheme of another. Grindor is going to replace Blackout since he was dead anyway, but even if he wasn't, having a purple and green camo design (for example) wouldn't make sense. Someone else is going to "be" Bonecrusher and so forth.

The Autobot Twins were once combined as an ice cream truck but scanned something else and became different vehicles. Another Autobot or two down the road may feel it's necessary to keep watch over kids during the summer and decide to scan an ice cream truck and thus replace the Twins in that way, and in that case, the color could be different if the Autobot (or Decepticon for that matter) decided on that because that vehicle would make sense.

Takara/ Hasbro want to make money, but they also want to appeal to veteran fans, so having a Devastor toy that has robot modes for the vehicles probably just means they want to release something else for a child to tug on his mother's pants for, or to appeal to veteran fans as an homage to the G1 Construction combiner. Superion will probably be worked into the expanded Movie Universe with comic books or whatever, but I think he was probably put out, not only for the kaching, but also for children to have something "extra cool, dad!" to fight Devastator and/ or for the vets who will remember the character. Either that or they simply saw something they could package and stick the movie logo on and get some extra bucks for it.

I didn't think that it was Rampage when I saw the red version but just another character with the same alt mode as I had seen a yellow "version" briefly before. Apparently it is Rampage, although in the credits he is listed with the wrong name, but again, it could simply be another character. After all, there are characters that were spotlighted as toys who didn't appear in the film such as Jolt, and even Superion, so it's not too much to think that it wasn't Rampage we saw battle Bumblebee. I read that if indeed it is Rampage we see fighting Bee, (making the yellow Decepticon someone else) he is red to distinguish him from the much loved Autobot.

I think the movie makers also felt that like people have mentioned it wouldn't be an issue of concern because either they'd catch on and/or they would just be so into the movie they wouldn't be analyzing everything into such minute detail.
Unfortunately that is what so many moviers go and do it seems; they go just to look for flaws and don't enjoy the final result.

(Yes, when one is aware of the fact that the geography of Egypt is completely butchered, for lack of a better term, then one can wonder about the film and why they couldn't work around the reality of it, but at the same time, if one can come away from the film enjoying what's happening, seeing Tranformers come to life on the silver screen with massive explosions and making lots of money and maybe even some recognizing that the property isn't simply juat a kid's toy, then shouldn't that be the main thing?

Look at Jurassic Park. It is full of errors when it comes to dinosaurs, and there are continuity goofs and what have you. Now if that really bothers someone in the case of inaccuracy with the dinosaurs, for instance, then that individual can say the dinosaurs are different (for instance the Velociraptors are the size of Utahraptors and have no feathers) because they were genetically modified with the frog DNA and their biology fooled around with by eager scientists paid to make the park spectacular. (They eventually used that idea for the toys, big neon 90's Extreme style.) The other options include being so bothered by details of the movie he or she never watches it again and blogs about the issues, or one can just do what many have done and still do is come away from it as a really fun film.)

All in all, I just think it's funny that the knock off Constructions/ Devastator my brother and I bought from Dollarama matches the color schemes of the vehicles in the movie, that the film wasn't that confusing, and that it was just a fun ride all the way through ... sure there were some things I would have totally changed, but hey, as a child I didn't dream I'd have two live action Tf films, let alone one, and I think the fans should maybe give the movie a break.