The Energon Pub

News Credits: 487 · by **Darth Bombshell** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:58 am

Burn wrote:So here's what i'd like to see, Sec escapes, lives in hiding, reappears when Tennant is leaving so that he can exterminate The Doctor and trigger the regeneration.

You know, that's the only scenario I can imagine the Daleks showing up in that I won't immediately piss on.

News Credits: 2 · by **Insurgent** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:40 am

As a casual viewer (before Eccleston) I can say without a doubt that:

Cybermen, Daleks and the Autons.

I have heard of and seen. Also, the Master is the only Time Lord enemy I have heard of thanks to that movie with the 8th doctor.

As for these Macra, I just did what Burn did and assumed they were something the doc had seen in one of his many years. Didn't realise they were previous aliens.

Like Exulted Unicron on Facebook · by **Exulted Unicron** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:39 am

It all depends though if Romana survived the time war somehow. It seems likely that The Rani and The Master would have survived the war anyway because they're so devious

by **War Hammer** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:41 am

You can't get rid of the Daleks or Cybermen, period. They are by far the best adversaries the Dr has and I think we are only just touching on the surface of their factions/sub factions.

Imagine the uproar there would be if the BBC writers said "no that’s enough, no more Daleks or Cybermen". That's like turning round to transformer fans and saying "Yeah we're killing off Prime and Megatron and they will never ever return". They come hand in hand with the character and the stories, they are so interwoven now you can't have one without the other. I think by far the best episodes in all these new series has been the ones with the Daleks and they're only going to get better.

One thing I want to see is some real Cybermen. The ones we've had so far are from an alternative world who eventually crossed over, but you can't tell me there are not a few more out there from our universe still floating around. Plus they fought the Daleks before so they might not be so much of a pussy as the ones we've seen so far

News Credits: 2 · by **Insurgent** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:54 am

That's like turning round to transformer fans and saying "Yeah we're killing off Prime and Megatron and they will never ever return".

Didn't that happen back in 86?

News Credits: 487 · by **Darth Bombshell** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:07 am

Insurgent wrote:Didn't that happen back in 86?

Yeah, it did. And they immediately brought Prime back.

News Credits: 1 · by **Matrix.** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:23 pm

Insurgent wrote:
That's like turning round to transformer fans and saying "Yeah we're killing off Prime and Megatron and they will never ever return".

Didn't that happen back in 86?

Yes. It arguably killed the franchise. :grin:

News Credits: 487 · by **Darth Bombshell** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:42 pm

And speaking of killing the franchise...WARNING: SPOILER IMAGE FOR "DALEKS OF MANHATTAN/EVOLUTION OF THE DALEKS."

http://freemaagyeman.com/news/2007/04/16/radio-times-17-april-2007/2/.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:20 pm

Must....not....comment....until....episode....viewed!

News Credits: 1 · by **Matrix.** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:23 pm

Jesus f*cking Christ. That's freakish, but at the same time, WHAT?

by **War Hammer** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:54 am

I've condemned episode before and was wrong after I watched them. Hell I even condemned the entire 2nd series before it started because I didn't want a new Dr after Eccelston.

So I've learnt my lesson and I'm not condemning an episode before I watch it, plus I have 100% trust in the writers. They seems to be able to turn any mundane idea into a cracking story line.

News Credits: 2 · by **Insurgent** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:06 am

WHA?!

It's gonna be an interesting episode then. Although you could have slapped a Spoiler Warning on that link DB.

News Credits: 487 · by **Darth Bombshell** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:33 am

Insurgent wrote:Although you could have slapped a Spoiler Warning on that link DB.

I thought that was a given. Though in the interest of fairness...

*scampers off to apply spoiler tag*

News Credits: 104 · by **Cyber Bishop** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:36 am

Darth Bombshell wrote:And speaking of killing the franchise...WARNING: SPOILER IMAGE FOR "DALEKS OF MANHATTAN/EVOLUTION OF THE DALEKS."

http://freemaagyeman.com/news/2007/04/16/radio-times-17-april-2007/2/.

Crap.. That looks horrible..

News Credits: 2 · by **Insurgent** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:47 am

Darth Bombshell wrote:And speaking of killing the franchise...WARNING: SPOILER IMAGE FOR "DALEKS OF MANHATTAN/EVOLUTION OF THE DALEKS."

http://freemaagyeman.com/news/2007/04/16/radio-times-17-april-2007/2/.

Now if it was that, I wouldn't have read it.

Darth Bombshell wrote:I thought that was a given.

Actually, I thought it was about production notes on the series or something. Silly me.

by **Phaze** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:28 pm

Cyber Bishop wrote:
Darth Bombshell wrote:And speaking of killing the franchise...WARNING: SPOILER IMAGE FOR "DALEKS OF MANHATTAN/EVOLUTION OF THE DALEKS."

http://freemaagyeman.com/news/2007/04/16/radio-times-17-april-2007/2/.

Crap.. That looks horrible..

New meaning to squidhead

Like Exulted Unicron on Facebook · by **Exulted Unicron** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:33 pm

Looks kinda like a jageroth from City of Death

by **Private_Random** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:45 pm

I was hoping more of a Davros look. :/

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:18 pm

Well really, the Daleks were mutated from Kaleds (humanoids), so it's no real suprise that in their on-going evolution they return to their bi-pedal roots, and still be mutated.

Logically it IS an evolutionary step for the Daleks. Just a step that I hope isn't permanent.

by **Lorekeeper** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:19 am

I'm not particularly looking forward to this week's episode. I just watched the Doctor Who confidential yesterday from Gridlock, and I'm really spoiling for clues to the "you are not alone" bit. I know, I know, it's gonna be the Master. At least, that's the thing that makes the best sense, and they've as much as told us so. But just like I had Dumbledore dying near the end of the Harry Potter series after I read book number one. (I mean, he was Harry's protector, he needed to be destroyed for there to be any real dramatic tension, so that Harry could be put in true danger.) My interest is in the how. How will the Master have survived? Was that awful thing in the fox movie really the Master?

I think we should get some Master background into this thread. (If it's here already and I skimmed over it, I'm quite sorry.) Here are some questions stemming from my dodgy memory:

How did the Master live past his 13 regenerations?
Is he really Gallifreyan (spelling?) anymore?
Can he still regenerate? If so, why?
What is the Master's relationship with the Doctor?
Why was the Master a renegade Timelord?
What is the Master's TARDIS like (if he has one)?
Was he the same one in the fox 8th doctor movie, or will that be retconned (correct term?)
Did the Master have any role in the novels (still considered canon?) after the fox movie?

Can anybody think of anything else we'd like to know/remember/speculate about the Master?

News Credits: 104 · by **Cyber Bishop** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:05 am

OptimusPrive wrote:How did the Master live past his 13 regenerations?

It is assumed that Anthony Ainley' master was the 13th regeneration and he was exterminated by the Daleks at the beginning of the movie

OptimusPrive wrote:Is he really Gallifreyan (spelling?) anymore?

I would think not anymore

OptimusPrive wrote:Can he still regenerate? If so, why?

No.
His consciousness now simply steals bodies

OptimusPrive wrote:What is the Master's relationship with the Doctor?

He is a would-be universal conqueror and wants to eliminate the Doctor

OptimusPrive wrote:Why was the Master a renegade Timelord?

See answer above

OptimusPrive wrote:What is the Master's TARDIS like (if he has one)?

His chameleon circuit still works so t has been seen in various forms including a filing cabinet, a grandfather clock, a fireplace, an Ionic column, and an iron maiden.

OptimusPrive wrote:Was he the same one in the fox 8th doctor movie, or will that be retconned (correct term?)

Same doctor

OptimusPrive wrote:Did the Master have any role in the novels (still considered canon?) after the fox movie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_%28 ... %29#Novels

Can anybody think of anything else we'd like to know/remember/speculate about the Master?[/quote]

by **Private_Random** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:40 pm

Cyber Bishop wrote:
OptimusPrive wrote:How did the Master live past his 13 regenerations?

It is assumed that Anthony Ainley' master was the 13th regeneration and he was exterminated by the Daleks at the beginning of the movie

Soz Bishop, it was Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers who played the final regeneration of the Master and when he took over Anthony Ainley's character Tremas, he had a new body. Anthony's Master didn't exactly have a new life cycle....he was however offered a new set of 13 lives by the Time Lords in the Five Doctors story.

News Credits: 104 · by **Cyber Bishop** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:45 pm

Private_Random wrote:
Cyber Bishop wrote:
OptimusPrive wrote:How did the Master live past his 13 regenerations?

It is assumed that Anthony Ainley' master was the 13th regeneration and he was exterminated by the Daleks at the beginning of the movie

Soz Bishop, it was Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beevers who played the final regeneration of the Master and when he took over Anthony Ainley's character Tremas, he had a new body. Anthony's Master didn't exactly have a new life cycle....he was however offered a new set of 13 lives by the Time Lords in the Five Doctors story.

From the wikipedia article

With Delgado's death, the Master disappeared from the series for several years. In his next appearance, in The Deadly Assassin (1976), the Master appeared as an emaciated, decaying wreck (played by Peter Pratt under heavy make-up). Although Time Lords have the potential to postpone death by completely renewing their bodies, the ability can only be used twelve times. The Master had used up all twelve of his regenerations, and was nearing the end of his thirteenth and final life. It is not clear if the Master had any regenerations between the Delgado incarnation and the Pratt one, or which incarnation the Delgado Master was.

Life after death

The Master also appeared in the 1996 Doctor Who television movie that starred Paul McGann as the Eighth Doctor. In the prologue, the Master's current body (the Anthony Ainley incarnation portrayed for mere seconds in the final edit by Gordon Tipple) was exterminated by the Daleks as a punishment for his 'evil crimes' set by the Time Lords after the Master's trial. However, the Master had betrayed the Daleks in the original series years before. The Master's final request is that the Doctor is to take his remains back to Gallifrey. In the Virgin New Adventures novel Lungbarrow by Marc Platt, the Doctor is given this task by the High Council of Time Lords.

It is controversial as to whether Tipple was portraying Ainley's incarnation of the Master or a new incarnation. All the Dr. Who novelisations and comics published around the same time as the release of the movie indicate that it is Ainley's Master, however there is nothing in the movie to specifically confirm or deny this beyond the general look of Tipple's Master (which is only seen from a distance). There are also conflicting earlier novelizations which have the Master regenerating into a new body, albeit with a similar, bearded Svengali appearance.

by **Rogue.** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:01 pm

There's a bit of a problem with that Wiki entry. It contradicts itself in just these two sentences...

"The Master had used up all twelve of his regenerations, and was nearing the end of his thirteenth and final life. It is not clear if the Master had any regenerations between the Delgado incarnation and the Pratt one, or which incarnation the Delgado Master was."

"Not clear?" WTF? Did they not just say that he had used up all of his twelve regenerations? I'm about 99% sure that Delgado was portraying the 13th and final regeneration of the Master in the series. The hamburger-faced Master we saw in "The Deadly Assassin" and "The Keeper of Traken" were supposed to be the Master at the very end of his 12th regeneration's (the 13th Master's) life cycle. Knowing that a more permanent death was upon him, he took over Tremas' body in order to cheat death. That was always my understanding, anyway. Why else would he have done that if he could just regenerate again? And he continues to cheat death, since the Daleks exterminated his "Tremas" body and he took over Eric Roberts (I forget that character's name).

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what RTD comes up with as this series plows on...

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:20 pm

Cyber Bishop wrote:
OptimusPrive wrote:What is the Master's relationship with the Doctor?

He is a would-be universal conqueror and wants to eliminate the Doctor

Some stories have him as a class mate of The Doctor's, along with The Rani.

Cyber Bishop wrote:
OptimusPrive wrote:Why was the Master a renegade Timelord?

See answer above

Most of those from that class had a urge to go against Gallifrean laws.

Cyber Bishop wrote:
OptimusPrive wrote:What is the Master's TARDIS like (if he has one)?

His chameleon circuit still works so t has been seen in various forms including a filing cabinet, a grandfather clock, a fireplace, an Ionic column, and an iron maiden.

Actually he had two. :wink:

Cyber Bishop wrote:Can anybody think of anything else we'd like to know/remember/speculate about the Master?

Well the last time we saw him in the tv show he was turned into a half-cat type thing. Perhaps he inherited another nine lives there.

Though he did always have a thing for stealing bodies.