HardHead wrote:If it was Voyager era, then yes, they would potentially be able to align together.
Devastron wrote:If its just Cybertron and the G1s, then the TFs are toast. Enormously outnumbered and outgunned. A fleet shows up around Cybertron, probably decloaking around it, and fires volley after volley down on to the planet. The TFs never even get the chance to shoot back.
For being alive for millions of years, TFs have very poor tech. They have few interplanetary vessels, no fission or fusion reactors, no anti-matter reactors, no nuclear weapons. It would be like if in a million years from now the most powerful human weapon was a bazooka and we were still driving around in cars powered by internal combustion
AutobotGeneral wrote:HardHead wrote:If it was Voyager era, then yes, they would potentially be able to align together.
There is no Voyager Era... The TNG Era Stretches from... you guessed it, TNG to Nemesis.
Devastron, if they were only in a marvel comic... No.
Optimus N1701, yes they have armada level tech.
HardHead wrote:AutobotGeneral wrote:HardHead wrote:If it was Voyager era, then yes, they would potentially be able to align together.
There is no Voyager Era... The TNG Era Stretches from... you guessed it, TNG to Nemesis.
Devastron, if they were only in a marvel comic... No.
Optimus N1701, yes they have armada level tech.
Then specify. You put me under the impression you were assuming we were using the factions as they were in the TNG series, as apposed to the 'Voyager' era, or DS9 era (Dominion war etc)
OptimusN1701 wrote:Ok, since Armada tech is in play, then the Federation has access to its temporal research facilities, meaning that they could activate one or more temporal stasis fields around Cybertron and then lay waste to the planet from space. Or they can equip their and their allies' ships with corbomite reflectors, which can reflect projectile weaponry.
And just for anyone's info, the Trekkies have thousands of ships at their disposal. This was seen during the Dominion War when the Breen's energy dampening weapon made it so only the Klingon fleet was left effective since they were immune to it. and the Klingons had at least 1500 ships at that point.
And with reference to God Sunstreakers comment about the Cardassian/Romulan sneak attack, it failed because a founder was posing as a Romulan officer and tipped off the Dominion forces to the plot, resulting in an ambush
Insurgent wrote:Firstly, the Cardassian/Romulan assault showed no damage to the surface because they were infiltrated by a shapeshifter which tipped off the Dominion, so there was nothing on the planet to show damage. But season6/7 of DS9 (which takes place in TNG era as the war is mentioned in Insurrection and First Contact in a season 5 ep of DS9) shows that the Klingons, Romulans and Federation can work together to fight the greater evil. If we are talking TNG Borg, then they will prove to be a match for tf ships (they would be able to assimalate the tf's as it's not just organics they assimilate, they go after the technological just as effectively). Yes, they don't adapt to projectile weapons like (photon) torpedoes, but their ships can self heal. Quickly. (TNG ep "Q-Who") They adapt their weapons to penetrate shields (same ep) and the cubes are a few kilometers across. Couple that with the fact that they could use a tractor beam to scoop the entire tf outposts off the planet surface and leave them floating in space, useless (see TNG ep "Best of Both Worlds").
Klingons do not always fight with melee weapons. They prefer to, but they will just as easily pull out a disruptor or a really big gun and shoot. If the Trek species pulled together all of their ships, they could decimate the few tf planets.
God Sunstreaker wrote:Insurgent wrote: Firstly, the Cardassian/Romulan assault showed no damage to the surface because they were infiltrated by a shapeshifter which tipped off the Dominion, so there was nothing on the planet to show damage. But season6/7 of DS9 (which takes place in TNG era as the war is mentioned in Insurrection and First Contact in a season 5 ep of DS9) shows that the Klingons, Romulans and Federation can work together to fight the greater evil. If we are talking TNG Borg, then they will prove to be a match for tf ships (they would be able to assimalate the tf's as it's not just organics they assimilate, they go after the technological just as effectively). Yes, they don't adapt to projectile weapons like (photon) torpedoes, but their ships can self heal. Quickly. (TNG ep "Q-Who") They adapt their weapons to penetrate shields (same ep) and the cubes are a few kilometers across. Couple that with the fact that they could use a tractor beam to scoop the entire tf outposts off the planet surface and leave them floating in space, useless (see TNG ep "Best of Both Worlds").
Klingons do not always fight with melee weapons. They prefer to, but they will just as easily pull out a disruptor or a really big gun and shoot. If the Trek species pulled together all of their ships, they could decimate the few tf planets.
You're funny.
The card/rom insistent can't be used to show that a bombardment is useful because there was no damage...so it doesn't matter how or why nothing was shown. The point is, nothing was shown
Yeah...they can't work together...but the borg can't work the the other groups. Auto Gen specifically said the borg were the early TNG borg and not the voyager borg. So there is conflict within the allies. Also...you haven't said how the feds and friends are any match for the tf ships and forces.
The borg ships can only self heal if they have time to heal. TF ships won't give them the time. And tf ship guns are strong enough that the borg won't be able to adapt to them.
The borg also can't assimilate robot life...they were never show to, and they failed to assimilate Data. So they can't do it.
The borg never scooped up any cities or settlements with tractor beams. That one reference you're thinking of was a hole in the ground made by borg weapons. Unfortunately we don't know how long it took for the borg ship to do that. On the other hand we have an accurate account of how fast an Autobot ship can vaporize rock that size, and it's pretty close to instantaneous.
Klingons will not "just as easily" pull out a gun and shoot their enemy. When they attacked DS9 they were all about melee, so much so that a pregnant Kira beat the crap out of one. It was sad.
I still don't see where you can come up with your conclusion that by pulling all the trek fleets together that trek will decimate tf planets.
The only planet killers trek has are out...it's one shot tech that was lost after it was used. The ships have to get in striking distance of Cybertron or one of the colonies, which they can't. Cybertron is mobile so they don't know where it is...and the tf ships are too strong.
Example, the Ark is bigger than a borg cube and it can cut one in half in a few seconds of sustained laser fire. It would take hours for a trek ship to do any significant damage to the Ark. And unfortunately for trek ships the Ark is going to shoot back destroying whatever ship it hits in a second or two. And the borg are too stupid to send multiple ships against a superior foe, and the tf's can definitely handle one cube at a time.
Not that the tf's care....there are no trek races anymore. Megaron killed them.....cause he went back in time. Then Unicron ate all the planets for good measure.
Transformers are just too insanely powerful.
Insurgent wrote:God Sunstreaker wrote:Insurgent wrote: Firstly, the Cardassian/Romulan assault showed no damage to the surface because they were infiltrated by a shapeshifter which tipped off the Dominion, so there was nothing on the planet to show damage. But season6/7 of DS9 (which takes place in TNG era as the war is mentioned in Insurrection and First Contact in a season 5 ep of DS9) shows that the Klingons, Romulans and Federation can work together to fight the greater evil. If we are talking TNG Borg, then they will prove to be a match for tf ships (they would be able to assimalate the tf's as it's not just organics they assimilate, they go after the technological just as effectively). Yes, they don't adapt to projectile weapons like (photon) torpedoes, but their ships can self heal. Quickly. (TNG ep "Q-Who") They adapt their weapons to penetrate shields (same ep) and the cubes are a few kilometers across. Couple that with the fact that they could use a tractor beam to scoop the entire tf outposts off the planet surface and leave them floating in space, useless (see TNG ep "Best of Both Worlds").
Klingons do not always fight with melee weapons. They prefer to, but they will just as easily pull out a disruptor or a really big gun and shoot. If the Trek species pulled together all of their ships, they could decimate the few tf planets.
You're funny.
The card/rom insistent can't be used to show that a bombardment is useful because there was no damage...so it doesn't matter how or why nothing was shown. The point is, nothing was shown
Yeah...they can't work together...but the borg can't work the the other groups. Auto Gen specifically said the borg were the early TNG borg and not the voyager borg. So there is conflict within the allies. Also...you haven't said how the feds and friends are any match for the tf ships and forces.
The borg ships can only self heal if they have time to heal. TF ships won't give them the time. And tf ship guns are strong enough that the borg won't be able to adapt to them.
The borg also can't assimilate robot life...they were never show to, and they failed to assimilate Data. So they can't do it.
The borg never scooped up any cities or settlements with tractor beams. That one reference you're thinking of was a hole in the ground made by borg weapons. Unfortunately we don't know how long it took for the borg ship to do that. On the other hand we have an accurate account of how fast an Autobot ship can vaporize rock that size, and it's pretty close to instantaneous.
Klingons will not "just as easily" pull out a gun and shoot their enemy. When they attacked DS9 they were all about melee, so much so that a pregnant Kira beat the crap out of one. It was sad.
I still don't see where you can come up with your conclusion that by pulling all the trek fleets together that trek will decimate tf planets.
The only planet killers trek has are out...it's one shot tech that was lost after it was used. The ships have to get in striking distance of Cybertron or one of the colonies, which they can't. Cybertron is mobile so they don't know where it is...and the tf ships are too strong.
Example, the Ark is bigger than a borg cube and it can cut one in half in a few seconds of sustained laser fire. It would take hours for a trek ship to do any significant damage to the Ark. And unfortunately for trek ships the Ark is going to shoot back destroying whatever ship it hits in a second or two. And the borg are too stupid to send multiple ships against a superior foe, and the tf's can definitely handle one cube at a time.
Not that the tf's care....there are no trek races anymore. Megaron killed them.....cause he went back in time. Then Unicron ate all the planets for good measure.
Transformers are just too insanely powerful.
And you clearly haven't seen Star Trek, or you don't pay attention. Kira isn't pregnant at that time, the Klingons do fire weapons (maybe not in that instance, but they have done on too many times to count) and as for the crator:
Watch the episode "The Best of Both Worlds" And pay attention. They scan the crator and say there is residual something or other from a tractor beam, meaning they scooped up the entire colony in one go. And it was quick enough to ensure no colonists escape. The Ark is the same size (more or less) than a Galaxy Class ship (like the Enterprise D) and their weapons are not insanely powerful. The Borg can assimalate robotic life, they simply chose not to in the case of Data because the queen wanted an equal. The episode of Enterprise when the Borg appeared (And they were from First Contact meaning they are TNG era Borg and thus, applicable here) assimilated parts of the ship. Note the Borg assimilate species AND THEIR TECHNOLOGY. Their ships are also able to self heal on the fly. I point you to the episode I referenced earlier (Q Who) when the Enterprise fires torpedoes at the cube and it heals itself while flying after them.
And I never said planet killing scale. I meant orbital bombardments that were shown to be effective during the Dominian War. Cybertron is not mobile, and even if it was, Star Trek has sensors that cover sectors of space that span lightyears, so they could easily track it down.
Star Trek also has shields that protect them from weapons fire. I know they can be worn down, but no tf ship has shields. Also, the Ark fired through an asteroid filed, then ran out of cannon power. Star Trek ships can keep firing constantly. Which means the Ark is going to be useless in a fight. They can destroy maybe 3 ships. Then they run out of power while the rest of the armarda wipes them out. tfs also dont have faster than light travel.
TF's would probably win ground battles, but space battles would go to the Trek guys.
One last thing. It was posted at the start: NO UNICRON!!
God Sunstreaker wrote:You still didn't address most of the random points I typed up. I don't think you're really trying.
OptimusN1701 wrote:Ok...looks like you two have really been going at it.
Well, first things first: Since the stipulations say the TFs are at movie lethality, looks like the Maximals and Predacons are completely out of the picture, as well as the Jap spin off cartoons.
Secondly, We, the Trekkies, cant assimilate the Tfs with the Borg, so that's out.
That said, in the TNG episode "The Neutral Zone," the Federation and Romulan bases were said to be "scooped up right out the ground." This was intended by the series' writers to be a massive allusion to the Borg and their awesome power who would appear in the second season.
As described in the episode "The Pegasus" the Federation developed a phase cloaking device in violation of the treaty of Algeron. This can enable a ship to both cloak and pass through solid matter. With this cloaking device installed on small scout ships ladden with quantum torpedoes or trilithium, the Klingons could use these to stage suicide attacks on Transformer ships and planets by decloaking and materializing inside of them and triggering the weapons.
now the Klingons would be the only ones to do this because the Feddies and Romulans frown upon the act of suicide, and they probably wouldnt give such tech the Borg
Oh, and damn you Insurgent for bringing up the trilithium probes before I could
AutobotGeneral wrote:Oh and one final rule... No Trek One-Shots. The Trilithium Device (which died with Soran and Luursa/B'etor) is out. And the Genesis Device (which died with the destruction of the Genesis Database and the death of David Marcus) is out. However I will allow one trek bonus... All Good Things Ent-D Level Tech.
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