The Energon Pub

News Credits: 5 · by **RodimalToyota** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:35 pm

Gauntlet101010 wrote:
Stuff Guantlet101010 wrote

sorry, wanted to condense that lol

You've got more emotion in that then anything else. While Hasbro "owns" Transformers.. there was many people involved, 99% of which are now gone, and receive no money for previous designs, or stories.

Also, most 3P stuff is not bootlegs, or KO's, they are basically shout outs to the original designs which we all love, that Hasbro won't do, because it's seen as out dated or not profitable to the average consumer.

3P takes nothing from Hasbro, if it did, Hasbro would shut them down.

So your argument for Pro-Hasbro, actually helps out pro-3P.

I'm not buying these guys because they are better, then Hasbro, or superior, or cheaper, or more available.. that's what would get Hasbro involved. I'm buying them because they fit a small niche market, of super-hyper-deluxe fans that hyperventilate over G1 style designs, and have lots of money to spend if you massage their G1 organ, that Global Hasbro doesn't see as profitable. That are too expensive, to exclusive, and too small of a run to bother with. You can love Hasbro all you want, but all they want is your money, like a Horny teen on Prom night, all they want is your stash. While they work hard to keep the brand fresh and new, they may throw in some vintage styled designs now and then. However keep in mind, no matter how big the designers are fans, the penny monkeys will be there to say "no" unless research says it will sell well.

News Credits: 5 · by **RodimalToyota** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:44 pm

Gauntlet101010 wrote:
RodimalToyota wrote:Hasbro can't walk into court and say "our Megatron from 20 years, that we will never sell again, looks like this Hegemon fellow who isn't available anywhere but some e-tailers"

But that's my sticking point, right there! G1 Megatron isn't from 20 years ago. Not really. He's been reissued several times by Takara (most recently by DotM, and let's not get too hung up over the differences between Hasbro and Takara) and they've made the mini G1 Megs as part of the Universe line.

Plus G1 toons have been on the air relatively recently, and the DVDs of the episodes are still readily available. In fact that very model is used as recently as the new TF Regeneration one comics. So, unlike background characters from TFTM, the image of G1 Megatron is still widly associated with the franchise.

But you say that, despite the very wide use of the G1 Megatron image ... Hegemon is still in the clear because his alt. mode is sufficiently different and because they don't have a physical product *exactly* resembling this?

It just has to do with wether they are still paying for the TM and C for the "Gun" mode version of the Megatron character. If you're not going to be using it in a mass media format, you aren't gonna pay the money it cost's to register something your not gonna use, unless your Apple and it means 100's of millions. Hasbro is a big TOY company, but it's still has a relatively small yearly income, and profit/debt ratio. (stock nerd talk)

News Credits: 1 · by **Gauntlet101010** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:47 pm

RodimalToyota wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:
Stuff Guantlet101010 wrote

sorry, wanted to condense that lol

You've got more emotion in that then anything else. While Hasbro "owns" Transformers.. there was many people involved, 99% of which are now gone, and receive no money for previous designs, or stories.

Also, most 3P stuff is not bootlegs, or KO's, they are basically shout outs to the original designs which we all love, that Hasbro won't do, because it's seen as out dated or not profitable to the average consumer.

3P takes nothing from Hasbro, if it did, Hasbro would shut them down.

So your argument for Pro-Hasbro, actually helps out pro-3P.

I'm not buying these guys because they are better, then Hasbro, or superior, or cheaper, or more available.. that's what would get Hasbro involved. I'm buying them because they fit a small niche market, of super-hyper-deluxe fans that hyperventilate over G1 style designs, and have lots of money to spend if you massage their G1 organ, that Global Hasbro doesn't see as profitable. That are too expensive, to exclusive, and too small of a run to bother with. You can love Hasbro all you want, but all they want is your money, like a Horny teen on Prom night, all they want is your stash. While they work hard to keep the brand fresh and new, they may throw in some vintage styled designs now and then. However keep in mind, no matter how big the designers are fans, the penny monkeys will be there to say "no" unless research says it will sell well.

Let's remember that I am not actually anti-3rd party. There are not my arguments. They are arguments and sentiments that I've seen on why other people are anti-3rd party.

I am a fan of Transformers CHARACTERS and UNIVERSE, specifically Seasons 1 - the movie. I appreciate Hasbro / Takara for what they've done, but I'm not particularly loyal to them. I do, however, want legit versions of what I'm buying over a KO. Whether that's a legit version of a G1 characer or a legit version of a 3rd party product.

News Credits: 1 · by **Gauntlet101010** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:52 pm

RodimalToyota wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:
RodimalToyota wrote:Hasbro can't walk into court and say "our Megatron from 20 years, that we will never sell again, looks like this Hegemon fellow who isn't available anywhere but some e-tailers"

But that's my sticking point, right there! G1 Megatron isn't from 20 years ago. Not really. He's been reissued several times by Takara (most recently by DotM, and let's not get too hung up over the differences between Hasbro and Takara) and they've made the mini G1 Megs as part of the Universe line.

Plus G1 toons have been on the air relatively recently, and the DVDs of the episodes are still readily available. In fact that very model is used as recently as the new TF Regeneration one comics. So, unlike background characters from TFTM, the image of G1 Megatron is still widly associated with the franchise.

But you say that, despite the very wide use of the G1 Megatron image ... Hegemon is still in the clear because his alt. mode is sufficiently different and because they don't have a physical product *exactly* resembling this?

It just has to do with wether they are still paying for the TM and C for the "Gun" mode version of the Megatron character. If you're not going to be using it in a mass media format, you aren't gonna pay the money it cost's to register something your not gonna use, unless your Apple and it means 100's of millions. Hasbro is a big TOY company, but it's still has a relatively small yearly income, and profit/debt ratio. (stock nerd talk)

Well ... I'll take your word on it. I suppose I'm not fully convinced, at least for products like the IT line and Hegemon, but there's no concrete points I can make and it's more of a general feeling that it can't possibly true, so you may very well have the right of it.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:00 pm

Rated X wrote:However I honestly dont understand the position of "Pro-Hasbro" Transformers fans who are "Anti-Third party". I know you are not one of them, however maybe you can shed some light on what makes them tick...

Why do they need to justify themselves to you? Why can't you simply accept that people feel that way?

Is it bothering you they feel that way?
Is it impacting on your life?
Are you threatened by their existence?

I'll put this simply. We know your stance, you make it numerous times every time this discussion comes up.

People think differently from you. Deal with it because you're a broken record playing a tune that went out of style a long time ago.

News Credits: 5 · by **RodimalToyota** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:14 pm

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well ... I'll take your word on it. I suppose I'm not fully convinced, at least for products like the IT line and Hegemon, but there's no concrete points I can make and it's more of a general feeling that it can't possibly true, so you may very well have the right of it.

Don't take my word for it, or anyone else's, it's all about what "YOU" like.
If you really feel the need, you can research it, that's all I did, but just for the "discussion" of it. In reality, if someone makes, something I want, I'll buy it. If I can buy a legitimate version, I will. If the only way to get it, is to buy a KO, I will. My only allegiance is to my sense of taste, and artistic pleasure in seeing these characters in various forms.

I bought Giant.. Because my options were.. Vintage Block Devy, or Energon..WTF Devy. Giant gave me a better option. If Tak, or Hasbro one day release a MP line of Constructions I will buy it in haste. As I Support them.. when it makes sense, financially, and artistically.

by **Rated X** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:18 pm

xyl360 wrote:I'm insulted by it, and I love 3rd party toys.

It's not about money or corporate CEO's and to use your analogy of a sports team or college, 3rd parties and KO's alike would be like a bunch of guys dressing up as players from Penn State but aren't actually from Penn State, just a bunch of guys pretending to be.

That's the difference between 3rd parties and actual licensed products. It doesn't matter how much they homage/look like something, unless they are actual licensed "Transformers" products, they are NOT in reality Transformers, they are transforming robot toys (likely inspired by) the Transformers franchise.

That's not a bad thing either in my opinion. Thanks to both 3rd party and KO companies I've been able to add pieces and characters to my shelves that the actual Transformers franchise (be it Hasbro, Takara or anyone who got a legal license for their characters/franchise) would have never created or provided to fans like me who wanted them.

Purple seeker? Hasbro: "NO!" Takara: "NO!" CHMS: "Sure, here you go !"

Same with the third party Devastators and everything else. I look at them on my shelf as part of MY Transformers collection, but I am NOT delusional enough not to realize that in reality they are not actual Transformers. They are transforming robot toys that happily resemble characters from the official Transformers franchise which I'm a fan of.

I am not anti-3rd party, or even anti-KO (I did buy a KO Henkei Wildrider after all ), but I also know the difference between what makes something an official piece of branding/licensed product and what makes it a 3rd party, unlicensed homage or knockoff of something else.

What I choose to spend my money on and put on my shelf is my business, but don't assume that all 3rd party fans (such as myself) think like you do, because we don't. And if I were kissing the corporate butt of Has/Tak, then I wouldn't have spent the thousands (yes, I said THOUSANDS) on 3rd party toys and KO's that I have and even more that I plan to in the future.

I understand where your coming from. You explained your stance very well, but didnt really expand on why my stance would offend you. For me personally, if it looks like a duck and it quacks, it a duck. As Transformers fans, we need not worry about which pot of molten plastic our figure came from. A Hasbro pot ? A CHMS pot ? Who cares ? (As long as the quality is on par with the original mold) If we as Transformers fans start worrying about Hasbro's corporate interests, then we might as well be a bunch of My Little Pony fans, Jabronies, or what ever it is they call themselves...

Im not delusional when I call my CHMS Rainmakers Transformers. The neon green one is more Acid Storm than Hasbro's camo version will ever be. If I put them both together and showed them to someone who had seen the cartoon but not toy line, they would probally think the CHMS version was official and the camo version was some kind of a wacky Chinese KO. (like all those Ruinitron camo KO's)

Being a Transformers fan comes from the heart. It shouldnt revolve around what Hasbro currently thinks we should support or not support. Hasbro says we (collectors) dont need Rainmakers or Battle Tankers in our lives. Hasbro says we (as collectors) need TF Prime and FOC in our lives and we should support where theyre taking the brand. As a G1 purist, I dont. So I guess Im delusional for saying Delicate Warrior is more of a "transformer" than TF Prime blue Arcee will ever be ? Lets just forget about G1 all together and accept how the NEW Hasbro keeps butchering the Transformers universe. Maybe next year Bumblebee will be red and hell be a motorcycle too. But since it will be an "official" decision, we (as collectors) should all get with the program.

Thats where Im at my friend. If it's considered a rant, then so be it. But I was never trying to offend you or any of the regular 3rd party supporters that post on these threads.

News Credits: 1 · by **Gauntlet101010** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:23 pm

RodimalToyota wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well ... I'll take your word on it. I suppose I'm not fully convinced, at least for products like the IT line and Hegemon, but there's no concrete points I can make and it's more of a general feeling that it can't possibly true, so you may very well have the right of it.

Don't take my word for it, or anyone else's, it's all about what "YOU" like.
If you really feel the need, you can research it, that's all I did, but just for the "discussion" of it. In reality, if someone makes, something I want, I'll buy it. If I can buy a legitimate version, I will. If the only way to get it, is to buy a KO, I will. My only allegiance is to my sense of taste, and artistic pleasure in seeing these characters in various forms.

I bought Giant.. Because my options were.. Vintage Block Devy, or Energon..WTF Devy. Giant gave me a better option. If Tak, or Hasbro one day release a MP line of Constructions I will buy it in haste. As I Support them.. when it makes sense, financially, and artistically.

Oh, I definitely agree with you on this.

I think you've misunderstood me ... for my part, this debate is more of an intellectual argument over what could violate Hasbro's copyright. I've already bought Hegemon and most of the IT line and Giant just came in the mail the other day.

Morally / ethically, I really don't care too much whether it violates Hasbro's or Takara's copyright. I don't feel I owe them that degree of loyalty. For me this is purely an intellectual exercise. :-B

News Credits: 2 · by **xyl360** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:46 pm

Rated X wrote:
xyl360 wrote:I'm insulted by it, and I love 3rd party toys.

It's not about money or corporate CEO's and to use your analogy of a sports team or college, 3rd parties and KO's alike would be like a bunch of guys dressing up as players from Penn State but aren't actually from Penn State, just a bunch of guys pretending to be.

That's the difference between 3rd parties and actual licensed products. It doesn't matter how much they homage/look like something, unless they are actual licensed "Transformers" products, they are NOT in reality Transformers, they are transforming robot toys (likely inspired by) the Transformers franchise.

That's not a bad thing either in my opinion. Thanks to both 3rd party and KO companies I've been able to add pieces and characters to my shelves that the actual Transformers franchise (be it Hasbro, Takara or anyone who got a legal license for their characters/franchise) would have never created or provided to fans like me who wanted them.

Purple seeker? Hasbro: "NO!" Takara: "NO!" CHMS: "Sure, here you go !"

Same with the third party Devastators and everything else. I look at them on my shelf as part of MY Transformers collection, but I am NOT delusional enough not to realize that in reality they are not actual Transformers. They are transforming robot toys that happily resemble characters from the official Transformers franchise which I'm a fan of.

I am not anti-3rd party, or even anti-KO (I did buy a KO Henkei Wildrider after all ), but I also know the difference between what makes something an official piece of branding/licensed product and what makes it a 3rd party, unlicensed homage or knockoff of something else.

What I choose to spend my money on and put on my shelf is my business, but don't assume that all 3rd party fans (such as myself) think like you do, because we don't. And if I were kissing the corporate butt of Has/Tak, then I wouldn't have spent the thousands (yes, I said THOUSANDS) on 3rd party toys and KO's that I have and even more that I plan to in the future.

I understand where your coming from. You explained your stance very well, but didnt really expand on why my stance would offend you. For me personally, if it looks like a duck and it quacks, it a duck. As Transformers fans, we need not worry about which pot of molten plastic our figure came from. A Hasbro pot ? A CHMS pot ? Who cares ? (As long as the quality is on par with the original mold) If we as Transformers fans start worrying about Hasbro's corporate interests, then we might as well be a bunch of My Little Pony fans, Jabronies, or what ever it is they call themselves...

Im not delusional when I call my CHMS Rainmakers Transformers. The neon green one is more Acid Storm than Hasbro's camo version will ever be. If I put them both together and showed them to someone who had seen the cartoon but not toy line, they would probally think the CHMS version was official and the camo version was some kind of a wacky Chinese KO. (like all those Ruinitron camo KO's)

Being a Transformers fan comes from the heart. It shouldnt revolve around what Hasbro currently thinks we should support or not support. Hasbro says we (collectors) dont need Rainmakers or Battle Tankers in our lives. Hasbro says we (as collectors) need TF Prime and FOC in our lives and we should support where theyre taking the brand. As a G1 purist, I dont. So I guess Im delusional for saying Delicate Warrior is more of a "transformer" than TF Prime blue Arcee will ever be ? Lets just forget about G1 all together and accept how the NEW Hasbro keeps butchering the Transformers universe. Maybe next year Bumblebee will be red and hell be a motorcycle too. But since it will be an "official" decision, we (as collectors) should all get with the program.

Thats where Im at my friend. If it's considered a rant, then so be it. But I was never trying to offend you or any of the regular 3rd party supporters that post on these threads.

Oh, I hear you loud and clear. I'm not talking about brand loyalty at all, simply the acknowledgement that the only companies that make the official brand of Transformers products are Hasbro, Takara and their licensees.

I definitely agree about the butchuring part too and I definitely don't back every play that Has/Tak makes (in fact, I loathe many of them these days, including several that you've mentioned above). Heck, that's the same reason I myself buy third party toys and KO's to fill the gaps, the gaps being versions of characters/toys that I want that Has/Tak has yet to produce.

So I guess the only thing I'm debating here is semantics, a minor point really, about what a real 'Transformer' is vs a likeness of/homage to a 'Transformer' made by someone else. No big deal though. I'm just glad that we have these 3rd parties around and I hope they keep it up. Has/Tak needs some competition, particularly in the collectors' market, to shake things up and make them at least consider that they aren't necessarily making all the money they could be off of fans like us that want more than what they are offering now every time they decide to reinvent the franchise.

News Credits: 1 · by **njb902** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:56 pm

I have a question to ask before jumping in here. Not all countries fallow "international law" so by what basis are we judging this on?

News Credits: 5 · by **RodimalToyota** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:28 pm

njb902 wrote:I have a question to ask before jumping in here. Not all countries fallow "international law" so by what basis are we judging this on?

It's all based on what's being sold in the US.
The legalities are blurred between governments.
Basically Hasbro has the right to protect the infringment here, and in the UK, under the UN's guidelines for IP protection.

you can't stop China, but you can stop them from exporting the stuff here, by getting it caught by ICE.

by **roBROmanceFTW** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:16 pm

Legalities aside, the Transformers universe(s) is(are) vast. On top of that, HasTak is always retelling and retooling the age-old story to keep the franchise "fresh." As such, just because it isn't officially "canon," doesn't mean it shouldn't constitute a part of YOUR understanding of the Transformers universe(s). Heck, if in your mind you believe that Voltron should belong in the Transformers universe, so be it. It's your preference. Hell, if you think Steelcore doesn't have a spot in the Transformers universe, so be it. IMO, third parties really help to expand on the toy aspect of the 'verse. Small though it may be, they definitely have an established fanbase that wants more than what HasTak churns out.

My 2 cents.

News Credits: 1 · by **datguy86** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:04 am

I just like giant mafuggin robots and buy them as I see fit.

by **Mekatron** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:57 am

KO's cross legal boundaries, 3rd Parties cross moral boundaries... simple as that. I'm not really understanding why there's even a debate going on here...

Curious... I've been wondering lately, are there OTHER popular USA toy lines that have a huge 3rd-party following like Transformers, or is this all fairly unique?

by **Rated X** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:41 am

Mekatron wrote:KO's cross legal boundaries, 3rd Parties cross moral boundaries... simple as that. I'm not really understanding why there's even a debate going on here...

Curious... I've been wondering lately, are there OTHER popular USA toy lines that have a huge 3rd-party following like Transformers, or is this all fairly unique?

Just go to the front page of BBTS. Theres no way every one of those custom figurines and busts from obscure movies and books can be officially authorized.

News Credits: 3 · by **Midnight_Fox** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:58 pm

Mkall wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:I can see his point and it explains a lot.

But I do wonder about products like IT's Quints. They're obviously based on the Quintessons. Is the lack of an official toy really preventing Hasbro from suing them? Are the Quints, either Arcee, or Hegemeon really 15% different than Hasbro's designs?

I'm not sure either. Based on the quote above, a case could be made that since the toys mimic nearly exactly animation designs that they could be confused for official Hasbro designs and thus could possibly be counted as IP theft. However I'm just grasping at straws since I'm neither a lawyer or even remotely educated on toy law.

I suggest looking at the "Games Workshop vs Chapterhouse Studio" case currently waiting to go to court in December, as that's the exact issue at hand: GW sued CHS for copyright infringement for models based on GW's art and aesthetics. Just ignore anyone saying they sued because CHS' website uses GW trademark terms to advertise compatibility, which is legal according to United States fair use laws.

It's very relevant to the TF 3rd party debate.

News Credits: 49 · by **Scaleface** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:34 pm

Thing is at this point Hasbro has not taken ANY legal action against anyone that we know about. So if they don't take any action we can only assume the either don't care or don't think they would win.

News Credits: 198 · by **DevastaTTor** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:44 pm

Midnight_Fox wrote:
Mkall wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:I can see his point and it explains a lot.

But I do wonder about products like IT's Quints. They're obviously based on the Quintessons. Is the lack of an official toy really preventing Hasbro from suing them? Are the Quints, either Arcee, or Hegemeon really 15% different than Hasbro's designs?

I'm not sure either. Based on the quote above, a case could be made that since the toys mimic nearly exactly animation designs that they could be confused for official Hasbro designs and thus could possibly be counted as IP theft. However I'm just grasping at straws since I'm neither a lawyer or even remotely educated on toy law.

I suggest looking at the "Games Workshop vs Chapterhouse Studio" case currently waiting to go to court in December, as that's the exact issue at hand: GW sued CHS for copyright infringement for models based on GW's art and aesthetics. Just ignore anyone saying they sued because CHS' website uses GW trademark terms to advertise compatibility, which is legal according to United States fair use laws.

It's very relevant to the TF 3rd party debate.

Definitely relavent and will be interesting to see how it plays out. However GW is small time compared to Hasbro so they have more at stake protecting their brands. Not to mention, collectors are the main consumers of their products so CHS was competing in the same market space.

News Credits: 49 · by **Scaleface** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:58 pm

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I still have a hard time believing that Hasbro/Takara can't do anything against the Impossible Toys line. I mean, I can see it being not worth their while, but being powerless? Those things are almost exactly like the animation model.

Impossible Toys saving grace may be the fact that none of these characters had toys. Hasbro can't claim any toy was copied. These are just toys that resemble a cartoon character from 20 years ago.

News Credits: 198 · by **DevastaTTor** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:21 pm

Why don't they go after 3Ps? Because it's not worth the effort. Even Fansproject, as good as they are, probably doesn't have millions or even thousands of dollars to go after. In the end, it's Hasbro/TT spending a bunch of money to basically tell someone "don't do that". And with so many 3Ps out there now, they'd cut one head off the third party dragon and two more would grow out in its place. As long as 3Ps aren't in the general consumer retail space, they'll just turn a blind eye.

News Credits: 2 · by **xyl360** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:40 pm

DevastaTTor wrote:Why don't they go after 3Ps? Because it's not worth the effort. Even Fansproject, as good as they are, probably doesn't have millions or even thousands of dollars to go after. In the end, it's Hasbro/TT spending a bunch of money to basically tell someone "don't do that". And with so many 3Ps out there now, they'd cut on head off the third party dragon and two more would grow out in its place. As long as 3Ps aren't in the general consumer retail space, they'll just turn a blind eye.

Yep, you're probably pretty close to the truth there.

Besides, you can bet that Has/Tak pays attention to what the 3rd parties are doing, what the trends are, what collector demand is for based on what the 3rd parties are being successful at selling, as well as engineering tips on how to accomplish things they haven't done yet or figures they've not tried to make yet. It makes sense, and I really don't mind it. I don't want the 3rd parties to go away and of course I don't want Has/Tak to stop doing what they're doing either.

They can sell as many Botshots and whatever else I won't buy as they need to in order finance lines like Generations/WfC/FoC/Prime (to a lesser degree) and especially the MP line.

In the meantime, I'll keep playing with my toys from Hasbro, Takara, Fansproject, TFC, Dr Wu and whoever else is making the stuff that I'm into

.

News Credits: 3 · by **Midnight_Fox** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:21 pm

DevastaTTor wrote:
Midnight_Fox wrote:
Mkall wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:I can see his point and it explains a lot.

But I do wonder about products like IT's Quints. They're obviously based on the Quintessons. Is the lack of an official toy really preventing Hasbro from suing them? Are the Quints, either Arcee, or Hegemeon really 15% different than Hasbro's designs?

I'm not sure either. Based on the quote above, a case could be made that since the toys mimic nearly exactly animation designs that they could be confused for official Hasbro designs and thus could possibly be counted as IP theft. However I'm just grasping at straws since I'm neither a lawyer or even remotely educated on toy law.

I suggest looking at the "Games Workshop vs Chapterhouse Studio" case currently waiting to go to court in December, as that's the exact issue at hand: GW sued CHS for copyright infringement for models based on GW's art and aesthetics. Just ignore anyone saying they sued because CHS' website uses GW trademark terms to advertise compatibility, which is legal according to United States fair use laws.

It's very relevant to the TF 3rd party debate.

Definitely relavent and will be interesting to see how it plays out. However GW is small time compared to Hasbro so they have more at stake protecting their brands. Not to mention, collectors are the main consumers of their products so CHS was competing in the same market space.

GW is more small time compared to Hasbro, but, they are one of the largest companies in the gaming industry and thus are technically rivals of Hasbro due to WotC. Also, ask any other game company and they're the 500 lbs gorilla in the room that has to be competed with. The fact that they've finally decided to return to GenCon shows that only now do they feel threatened by other companies.

In addition, GW's proven track record indicates that their tactics are to bully companies into submission, NOT to actually bring them to court. CHS obtaining pro-bono representation and thus being able to actually afford to fight wasn't expected and it's showing with the way GW's US lawyers are handling the case(inability to specify what they're bringing the case against until 1.5 years into deposition, inability to prove that they own the copyrights that they're claiming, claiming generic geometric shapes and symbols[chevrons, arrows, skulls, Roman numerals, etc.] as copyrighted). Dakkadakka actually has a very good thread about the case commented on by several lawyers and other studiers of law with direct commentary on the case files.