The Energon Pub

One thing that really bothered me in the film is when Optimus and that government representative where discussing why the Decepticons where still active, that they should leave the earth, etc. They said an agreement was signed between the two factions (US government and Autobots) that they could stay on Earth providing they helped track and destroy Decepticons... What gives the US power to honor that agreement without consulting another countries government or informing the general populous.

Just saying if the US wanted the Autobots to leave they could simply relocate to another country as the agreement was between the Autobots and the US, they don't have the power or right to speak for the rest of the world.

Nightscreech wrote:One thing that really bothered me in the film is when Optimus and that government representative where discussing why the Decepticons where still active, that they should leave the earth, etc. They said an agreement was signed between the two factions (US government and Autobots) that they could stay on Earth providing they helped track and destroy Decepticons... What gives the US power to honor that agreement without consulting another countries government or informing the general populous.

Just saying if the US wanted the Autobots to leave they could simply relocate to another country as the agreement was between the Autobots and the US, they don't have the power or right to speak for the rest of the world.

You have a point and yes they very well could re-locate to another country. However it's a movie, and a very poorly written one at that.

Galvatron628 wrote:You have a point and yes they very well could re-locate to another country. However it's a movie, and a very poorly written one at that.

True there are many plot elements that annoyed me, this was just a major one.

I'm starting to realize myself that I'm lieing to myself about ROTF. The plot is so crappy that only the action saves the movie. It might just be the worst plot ever...

I still don't know how i feel about it. as a filmmaker the story sucks, but i was very entertained. Then theirs the special effects which is something i dabble in as well. POPCORN is probably the best way to describe it.

Well your point here just really shows another flaw in the plot IMO. Yeah I agree the action and special effects are top notch but more and more I'm starting to realize the critics were right the movie as a whole sucks.

Originally I would of said it was better than the first but after getting over the action and SFX I'm realizing that the first was better overall. Granted yeah it defitintly wasn't devoid of plotholes or errors but I can honestly say I felt it did the TF franchise justice on the silverscreen, while I can't really say that about ROTF.

They took the expression, leader of the free world literally ...

Its a movie so take it with a grain of salt.

Galvatron628 wrote:Well your point here just really shows another flaw in the plot IMO. Yeah I agree the action and special effects are top notch but more and more I'm starting to realize the critics were right the movie as a whole sucks.

.

Are you kidding me right now? Your going to let something as stupid as the Autobots working with the U.S. government ruin a movie that's about transforming robots??? This is not, i repeat NOT A PLOT HOLE OF THE MOVIE Don't let stupid thoughts like this change your opinion if you truly enjoyed the movie. And please remember... This is a movie. Not a war documentary.

I can't believe you guys are looking so far deep into a movie about Alien robots from outerspace. Seriously...

Personally, I found it political satire. Particularly the part where the president was hiding out in his bunker and issuing bold but toothless statements. But I don't want to turn this into a political thing--I come here to Seibs because right now politics depresses the bejeezus out of me.

Actually, to counterbalance that, I have to say that I was actually pretty pleased that they *tried* to incorporate other military special ops groups into the NEST team. Sure, they were all from English speaking countries, but it's a step.

HK, I want to see a Decepticon go up against the Spetznatz.

Oh for crying out loud folks lighten up!

5150 Cruiser wrote: I can't believe you guys are looking so far deep into a movie about Alien robots from outerspace. Seriously...

Amen

I can't believe this is even a thread, but to answer the topic anyway.....

The Transformers were a secret, known only to a few in the US Administation - Why the hell would they ask anyone else

Who cares!

ScoutSi wrote:Oh for crying out loud folks lighten up!

5150 Cruiser wrote: I can't believe you guys are looking so far deep into a movie about Alien robots from outerspace. Seriously...

Amen

I agree.

Listen folks,

IT IS ONLY A MOVIE

You are supposed to go to the movies and HAVE FUN, not critique them to death like people have been lately.

Cyber Bishop wrote:I agree.

Listen folks,

IT IS ONLY A MOVIE

You are supposed to go to the movies and HAVE FUN, not critique them to death like people have been lately.

I agree with you to an extent--it's an action movie. It was fun. I had a good time and don't think I wasted my money. But....(deep breath)

Actually, for some of us, critiquing things to death is kind of our job. In fact, I spent part of this weekend critiquing critiques. As part of my actual-yes-they-pay-me-to-do-this job. It's kind of hard to turn those Mad Skillz (tm) to the off position.

And 'just a movie'? Film has actually replaced books and poetry as the 'literature' of the 21st century. No one reads any more. At least, none of my students don't. So, what do I do? Do I force them to read Thomas Hardy because that's what I was forced to do when I was their age, or do I tackle what they find interesting and show them that that, too, speaks on the same level as Bard Billy Shakespeare?

And another 'just a movie'--up where I live, they finally concluded that this moron who set off a bomb outside a Starbuck's was directly inspired/motivated by _Fight Club_. Which is also *just a movie*.

HK, and now I'm gonna get banned for disagreeing with Da Boss

Yes it is "just a movie" and No this little thing didn't ruin it for me. I think that no doubt the movie could of just been a 100 times better, and in fact I expected a lot better. My first time through I enjoyed every minute of it, but when I got done watching it, I didn't feel as excited leaving the theatre as I did with the first Transformers. The first movie by no means is mistake free, but as I said before it did Transformers justice, while this one really didn't.

But I feel with just a little tweaking, and removing of toilet humor "filler" scenes the movie could of been a lot better. Give the Fallen more screen time, to make him more evil and threatening, make an epic battle at the end with the Fallen and Prime instead of Prime just beating the **** out of him and calling it a day, Fix mistakes such as the outside of the smithsonian looking like an airfield in Arizona, the "6 bogies coming up" line, trash the Pretender Alice alltogether, Make the Construcitcons the real contructicons, and while Devastator's formed throw in Thundercracker, Skywarp, Ramjet, Thrust, and Dirge to substitute, which could of easily been accomplished much the same way they had 20 contructicons by using Starscream's CGI Model.

My real problem is the plot is paperthin and theres too much stuff you are "just supposed to know". What does an average movie goer even know about Energon for instance? There was no mention of it what-so-ever in the first TF movie, but this one you are just supposed to know. And I still want to know why Demolisher said "the fallen will rise again" when he was already alive and well living on a moon on Saturn?

Galvatron628 wrote:Yes it is "just a movie" and No this little thing didn't ruin it for me.

It's kind of funny how you slam me for my 'just a movie' thing, and then spend 500 words nitpicking the movie, isn't it?

I just suggest that there's a lot more room between 'just a movie therefore insignificant' and 'I must base my whole life/religion on this movie and try to theme my wedding by it.' There's a level at which we can and should take the artefacts of our culture seriously. Just sayin'. Movies also help us 'think out loud'--a lot of the working through the issues of Vietnam were done in the movies--_Apocalypse Now_, for example. So, yeah, I will argue that 'just a movie' is BS, and kind of insulting for those of us who study films and pop culture. Thanks for pooping on my career choice, guys.

However, I agree that a Michael Bay movie, maybe doesn't make it to 'artefact' status. But then again, if people in the Renaissance knew Shakespeare was going to be so revered, they probably would have kept like actual records of his existence, so who knows? (And OMG no, I am NOT saying Bay is Shakespeare. The very thought sends me into gigglefits).


HK, when you come down to it, wasn't Transformers *JUST A CARTOON*? (Gasp! Blasphemy!)

hellkitty wrote:

Galvatron628 wrote:Yes it is "just a movie" and No this little thing didn't ruin it for me.

It's kind of funny how you slam me for my 'just a movie' thing, and then spend 500 words nitpicking the movie, isn't it?

Sorry I wasn't trying to slam you, not at all. IF anything I actually agree with you. Sorry you felt that way. I was more or less pointing out to all the posters that said it was "just a movie".

Galvatron628 wrote:Sorry I wasn't trying to slam you, not at all. IF anything I actually agree with you. Sorry you felt that way. I was more or less pointing out to all the posters that said it was "just a movie".

Okey-doke. Sorry for misreading!

HK, up too late trying to get a head start on tomorrow's procrastinatin'.

Fix mistakes such as the outside of the smithsonian looking like an airfield in Arizona, the "6 bogies coming up" line

Minor issues, really. You probably wouldn't want to watch the early James Bond films since they were chock full of egregious mistakes and comical editing...yet, those films are beloved by many....(including myself).

trash the Pretender Alice alltogether

She was one of the best parts of the film for me(easy on the eyes, too).

Make the Construcitcons the real contructicons

One Consructicon team combined, the other set of construction vehicles turned into killer robots. Close enough to the Constructicons for me.

and while Devastator's formed throw in Thundercracker, Skywarp, Ramjet, Thrust, and Dirge to substitute

And we're talking a combined 5 minutes of screen time and just 5 more Decepticon carcasses.

My real problem is the plot is paperthin

Paperthin plots are slasher flicks. ROTF has a plot that is not needlessly complex for its type of movie. I wasn't looking for simulataneous, nuanced, and intertwined plotlines ivolving Ironhide searching the inner recesses of his spark for the true reasons behind his anger or Scorponok learning how to handle the separation from Blackout....and thankfully, I didn't get that.

Sorry, my friend, I don't mean to pick on you, but if you allow them to, minor quibbles will ruin anything for you.

As for the original post....the Autobots were on U.S. soil at the time. They could have told them to go to Canada, but that would just be rude, wouldn't it?

This is a common problem when "World Domination" and or "Apocolypse" comes into play. I think there are alot of movies that have the same problem. Off the top of my head I can think of "The Day the Earth Stood Still" "Armageddon" "X-men 3" and alot of the bond movies, even though that's england not the US.

The fact that Other governments don't act or the UN doesn't have a meeting or w/e is just a oversight. I don't look too into it and just try to enjoy the movie.

Galvatron628 wrote:Yes it is "just a movie" and No this little thing didn't ruin it for me. I think that no doubt the movie could of just been a 100 times better,

Of course it could have been better. Any movie can be made better in some way or form especially when you nit pick stupid things like..

Galvatron628 wrote: Fix mistakes such as the outside of the smithsonian looking like an airfield in Arizona, the "6 bogies coming up" line,

While these are mistakes, they in no way effect the story or plot. And if minor things like this affect your feelings of a movie about Alien Robots, then well, your never going to be happy. Things that have no effect on the story or plot

Galvatron628 wrote:My real problem is the plot is paperthin and theres too much stuff you are "just supposed to know". What does an average movie goer even know about Energon for instance? There was no mention of it what-so-ever in the first TF movie, but this one you are just supposed to know.

Starscream explained it quite well. He holds a clone in his hand as it falls dead saying..
"Without Energon, the clones will die!" What does this tell you?
This tells me that energon is the source that gives the clones the power/life needed to live. Heck, even my mother who's only exposure to TF has been the movies figured this out. At some point, people need to use common reasoning when it comes to the story and plot.
Anyways, i felt this is one of the things Bay and company did as a nod to fans,...
But again, it seems that fans will never be happy.

Galvatron628 wrote: And I still want to know why Demolisher said "the fallen will rise again" when he was already alive and well living on a moon on Saturn?

Com'on man... Do i need to hold your hand while you pee too? Ever think that when he says "Rise" he means come down and finish what he started thousands of years ago? To rise as Leader once again? If you let small things like this bother you, (things that don't affect the story or plot what-so-ever) then your never going to be happy.

While I partially agree with the topic. THe President seemed to be the leader of the alliance which knew about the transformers. So I would say he talked to them before hand. Like many things in the movie could have been fixed with 2 seconds of dialogue.

For the record I loved the movie. Yes loved it. It was one of the five most enjoyable movie experiances I have had in years.

So did everyone miss the Multi national patches for NEST? Obviously everyone also missed the chinese helping cover up and control the area in the beginning while working with the US led NEST group. I think it was a joint government thing with the US leading the way like it always does in the UN lol.

On another note, why is everyone so critical about how factual a movie about giant robots is? I feel sorry for the people that just can sit back and enjoy it without tearing it apart.

No matter what anyone says the movie obviously made a crap load of money and movies that suck dont normally make this much money.

I just blame the writer's strike.

Kenny28 wrote:I just blame the writers

Fixxed to represent my opinion. The base story was good for the movie, the realization of every subplot is just garbage.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Galvatron628 wrote:Yes it is "just a movie" and No this little thing didn't ruin it for me. I think that no doubt the movie could of just been a 100 times better,

Of course it could have been better. Any movie can be made better in some way or form especially when you nit pick stupid things like..

Galvatron628 wrote: Fix mistakes such as the outside of the smithsonian looking like an airfield in Arizona, the "6 bogies coming up" line,

While these are mistakes, they in no way effect the story or plot. And if minor things like this affect your feelings of a movie about Alien Robots, then well, your never going to be happy. Things that have no effect on the story or plot

Galvatron628 wrote:My real problem is the plot is paperthin and theres too much stuff you are "just supposed to know". What does an average movie goer even know about Energon for instance? There was no mention of it what-so-ever in the first TF movie, but this one you are just supposed to know.

Starscream explained it quite well. He holds a clone in his hand as it falls dead saying..
"Without Energon, the clones will die!" What does this tell you?
This tells me that energon is the source that gives the clones the power/life needed to live. Heck, even my mother who's only exposure to TF has been the movies figured this out. At some point, people need to use common reasoning when it comes to the story and plot.
Anyways, i felt this is one of the things Bay and company did as a nod to fans,...
But again, it seems that fans will never be happy.

Galvatron628 wrote: And I still want to know why Demolisher said "the fallen will rise again" when he was already alive and well living on a moon on Saturn?

Com'on man... Do i need to hold your hand while you pee too? Ever think that when he says "Rise" he means come down and finish what he started thousands of years ago? To rise as Leader once again? If you let small things like this bother you, (things that don't affect the story or plot what-so-ever) then your never going to be happy.

Keep in mind I loved the original. As for this one I loved the Action, but the plot just sucks. Period.

I'm not asking for deep character development. I'm not asking for the Dark Night. I just want a deeper plot that makes more sense, is that too much to ask for? By all means the first one was pretty damn clear with the Allspark! More or less the subplots and characters were pretty well defined. This one is pretty damn undefined. Lets see, we are teased with cameos of Arcee, Ironhide, Ratchet, and Sideswipe, but the majority of the movie is just Bumblebee and the moron twins. Honestly the autobots got more screen time in the first one it would seem.

And I'm sick of this whole "what do you expect from an Alien robot movie" talk. Seriously, I said it for a while too, but for crying out loud it could be a lot better. See Beast Wars. See Beast machines. Yes you can make good plots and storylines with Alien Robots!