>
shop.seibertron.com amazon.seibertron.com Facebook Twitter X YouTube Pinterest Instagram Myspace LinkedIn Patreon Podcast RSS
This page runs on affiliate links — your clicks may earn us a few Shanix. Want the full transmission? Roll out to our Affiliate Disclosure.

Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Do you love your new Hercules set? Can't get enough of FansProject's items? Upset that you bought a knock off when you thought you were getting an original? Use this forum to tell everyone your thoughts about unlicensed and knock off TF products.

Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby mooncake623 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:27 am

Weapon: Concussion Rifle
Is there any Third party offerings (Original design not KOs) that has windows? I can't think of one. Everyone single Car, construction vehicle,truck ect. they all seem to have windows painted in.

Is this a cost cutting method? hmmm..
Looking for:
Botcon Redux Spark (Pyro)
"Comfort is the death of creativity "
"My country is the world... and my religion is to do good"
Image
User avatar
mooncake623
City Commander
Posts: 3749
News Credits: 461
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:27 am
Location: NYC
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 6
Rank: 5
Courage: 9
Firepower: 10
Skill: 7

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby Mkall » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:44 am

Weapon: Twin Sonic Cannons
Not that I can think of, but that's not a bad thing really when it comes to the uniformity of a figure.

Let's look at a figure that has windows/windshield, I'll use Classics Bumblebee because most of us have one of his many releases. For him to have a windshield and look neat and clean in robotmode, his entire chestpiece is made of translucent plastic so that the windshield is transparent. The roof has to be painted. Compare BB's chest to his molded plastic doors or feet. It's a similar colour, but not exactly the same.

Transparent plastic, to my knowledge anyways, is also not as flexible or as strong as coloured plastic. Given how complex some 3rd party offerings are, there are bits and pieces being forced to do all sorts of crazy things that would cause a Hasbro designer to cringe.

Pound for pound coloured plastic may also be cheaper, but I'm not sure on that. I do know that if they want a transparent piece, they'd have to set up a whole new mold-tree just to make it. So in the long run, it is more expensive to add windows to a figure.
Image

Discord: Mkall#0376

My Collection! Updated Oct 21, 2022
Mkall
God Of Transformers
Posts: 11158
News Credits: 402
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:50 pm
Strength: 7
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 6
Endurance: 6
Rank: 8
Courage: 8
Firepower: 6
Skill: 10

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:14 pm

TFC's Reflector has a lens. Does that count? You also have Uranos whose members all have windows. I think FP's Stunticons would actually look much better with windows. But, then, I like actual windows on figures.
Gauntlet101010
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 5527
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:13 pm

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby mooncake623 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:20 pm

Weapon: Concussion Rifle
Agreed, not saying it's always a bad thing but on some pieces it would be nice. I would be nice to have windows for FP's stunticons, or IGEAR's COGs and Hench. What I also don't understand is why must you have to have the roof be transparent Plastic as well why not just get the roof to be regular plastic and glue it together? won't the cost of that even out the cost of the amount of paint used?
Like RTS Jazz for instance the roof and windshield could easily be two pieces.
Looking for:
Botcon Redux Spark (Pyro)
"Comfort is the death of creativity "
"My country is the world... and my religion is to do good"
Image
User avatar
mooncake623
City Commander
Posts: 3749
News Credits: 461
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:27 am
Location: NYC
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 6
Rank: 5
Courage: 9
Firepower: 10
Skill: 7

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby necr0blivion » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:22 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Offhand I have two examples: FP's Steel Core and iGear's Medical/Weapon Specialists.

This would be a cost cutting effort which I absolutely agree with. Gotta maximize what's on a sprue. Otherwise companies will either incur more production costs which may increase the consumer's price or we'll end up with painted clear plastic parts that don't always match the rest of the figure. Mkall's Bumblebee reference is spot on, as well as the Classics Red Alert/Sideswipe/Sunstreaker mold - but it's not as noticeable.

Think about ToyWorld's Hegemon for a moment. They used clear red plastic for the back of his head (light piping effect) and also the scope of his gun. Yet the figure also ended up with the same red clear plastic for his elbow joints and the back of his legs. I think most people found this curious, some may have been a bit upset by this choice because it doesn't seem to be necessary. I'm guessing this was done to maximize what was created on each sprue in order to rein in costs. The aesthetic of the figure isn't harmed too badly because of these inclusions, so hopefully it was a win-win for everyone, albeit a bit thought provoking.

With Steel Core, FP made use of the clear green plastic to also create the blade of his weapon. Not sure where the Specialists make use of additional clear plastic parts, but maybe this wasn't such a big deal since both figures needed the same windshield and it is a large piece.
Image
necr0blivion
Gestalt
Posts: 2066
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 1:24 pm
Strength: 7
Speed: 9
Endurance: 7
Rank: 7
Courage: 6
Firepower: 5
Skill: 7

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby mooncake623 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:22 pm

Weapon: Concussion Rifle
Gauntlet101010 wrote:TFC's Reflector has a lens. Does that count? You also have Uranos whose members all have windows. I think FP's Stunticons would actually look much better with windows. But, then, I like actual windows on figures.



Oh okay had no idea about Uranos. I was thinking mainly in cars and trucks. Maketoy's Giant's alt Modes color window would look so much better if they have windshields (to me anyway)
Looking for:
Botcon Redux Spark (Pyro)
"Comfort is the death of creativity "
"My country is the world... and my religion is to do good"
Image
User avatar
mooncake623
City Commander
Posts: 3749
News Credits: 461
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:27 am
Location: NYC
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 6
Rank: 5
Courage: 9
Firepower: 10
Skill: 7

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby mooncake623 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:24 pm

Weapon: Concussion Rifle
hmmm.. just thought of it IGEAR! Weapons and Medical specialist they have a windshield! yep makes it look good!

EDIT:: didn't see necr0blivion's post. but yea more windows from Third Parties Please!!

Assulter's cockpit would look good in transparent plastic! (not that it looks bad as it)
Looking for:
Botcon Redux Spark (Pyro)
"Comfort is the death of creativity "
"My country is the world... and my religion is to do good"
Image
User avatar
mooncake623
City Commander
Posts: 3749
News Credits: 461
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:27 am
Location: NYC
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 6
Rank: 5
Courage: 9
Firepower: 10
Skill: 7

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:28 pm

iGear's and IT's Arcees both have windows too.

I agree on Giant. But I'd agree with any 3rd party TF having windos. It always looks better to me.
Gauntlet101010
Guardian Of Seibertron
Posts: 5527
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 9:13 pm

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby mooncake623 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:38 pm

Weapon: Concussion Rifle
Gauntlet101010 wrote:iGear's and IT's Arcees both have windows too.

I agree on Giant. But I'd agree with any 3rd party TF having windos. It always looks better to me.


yea! It's just sad that hasbro/takara can give us windows on a 12 dollar Deluxe but it would be too costly for 3P to include in a lot of figures that could benefit from it really shows the economies of scales at work here.
Looking for:
Botcon Redux Spark (Pyro)
"Comfort is the death of creativity "
"My country is the world... and my religion is to do good"
Image
User avatar
mooncake623
City Commander
Posts: 3749
News Credits: 461
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:27 am
Location: NYC
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 6
Rank: 5
Courage: 9
Firepower: 10
Skill: 7

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby Agamemnon » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:56 pm

Motto: ""I'd be the President of the procrastinator's club if I ever got around to submitting my application.""
Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
mooncake623 wrote:What I also don't understand is why must you have to have the roof be transparent Plastic as well why not just get the roof to be regular plastic and glue it together? won't the cost of that even out the cost of the amount of paint used?
Like RTS Jazz for instance the roof and windshield could easily be two pieces.

It may appear that this is an easy thing, especially from the perspective of any of us who have put together model cars in our lifetime. Unfortunately, there are other concerns, primarily cost, that prevent this.

I used to work for a company that had custom plastic parts made for our products. I worked in quality and dealt with the vendor many, many times. If it is at all possible to mold something in one color/material, that is the cheapest. It is possible to mold using two different colors, but matching the plastics is a good idea, and as Mkall said, there is a substantial difference in the makeup of clear plastics.

Adhesives in an industrial process are tricky. They have a tendency to gum up the injectors. Then there are issues with gassing. Have you noticed that toys these days are either pressure fitted or screwed together? I imagine it is far more effective to paint clear plastic to match than to glue together parts around a clear window.

Then there is the structure. One piece is much stronger than multiple molded pieces or pieces glued around a window. I'll have to go back to my G1 toys and see how some of those windows were accomplished. If I remember correctly, OP's windows were in the die cast portion.

So, in summary, I'm thinking that cost is probably the primary reason, factoring in the cost of paint versus adhesive/labor to assemble the parts. Secondary, and probably as important, is the structural stability and strength element.

I guess I'm okay with having painted windows. It never really bothered me.
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...
(I answer to Ag or Ags. Agamemnon is too long to type. Plus, there is something elemental about calling me Ag. :-D )
User avatar
Agamemnon
Faction Commander
Posts: 4980
News Credits: 10
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:41 am
Location: North Side, Twin Cities
Alt Mode: A donut. Mmmmm...donut
Strength: 5
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 2
Endurance: 6
Rank: 2
Courage: 9
Firepower: 5
Skill: 8

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby mooncake623 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:03 pm

Weapon: Concussion Rifle
Agamemnon wrote:
mooncake623 wrote:What I also don't understand is why must you have to have the roof be transparent Plastic as well why not just get the roof to be regular plastic and glue it together? won't the cost of that even out the cost of the amount of paint used?
Like RTS Jazz for instance the roof and windshield could easily be two pieces.

It may appear that this is an easy thing, especially from the perspective of any of us who have put together model cars in our lifetime. Unfortunately, there are other concerns, primarily cost, that prevent this.

I used to work for a company that had custom plastic parts made for our products. I worked in quality and dealt with the vendor many, many times. If it is at all possible to mold something in one color/material, that is the cheapest. It is possible to mold using two different colors, but matching the plastics is a good idea, and as Mkall said, there is a substantial difference in the makeup of clear plastics.

Adhesives in an industrial process are tricky. They have a tendency to gum up the injectors. Then there are issues with gassing. Have you noticed that toys these days are either pressure fitted or screwed together? I imagine it is far more effective to paint clear plastic to match than to glue together parts around a clear window.

Then there is the structure. One piece is much stronger than multiple molded pieces or pieces glued around a window. I'll have to go back to my G1 toys and see how some of those windows were accomplished. If I remember correctly, OP's windows were in the die cast portion.

So, in summary, I'm thinking that cost is probably the primary reason, factoring in the cost of paint versus adhesive/labor to assemble the parts. Secondary, and probably as important, is the structural stability and strength element.

I guess I'm okay with having painted windows. It never really bothered me.


Hmmm... thanks for the information! I guess it just makes more sense in that case to paint the roof. Even MP sideswipe's roof is painted. But MP 10 does have windows on hard plastic? And it looks beautiful!! =] never checked MP Rodimus's windows.
Looking for:
Botcon Redux Spark (Pyro)
"Comfort is the death of creativity "
"My country is the world... and my religion is to do good"
Image
User avatar
mooncake623
City Commander
Posts: 3749
News Credits: 461
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:27 am
Location: NYC
Strength: 8
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 6
Rank: 5
Courage: 9
Firepower: 10
Skill: 7

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby Lord Raze » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:20 pm

It may well be down to the engineering of the toy as well. A clear window is great when you can see through to a steering wheel and seats of a vehicle. Probably not so good when all you're looking at is the toys folded up arms or legs.
Lord Raze
Minibot
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:40 am

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby craggy » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:09 pm

FP's Chromedome has a translucent window as well. So his little dude can look out. Usually I'm not bothered by clear windows as a lot of the time all you end up with is the ability to see a bunch of robot parts all folded up inside. With that, and the potential quality issues, and extra cost, I'd rather not have it for most releases, but with headmasters and the like, it's a nice little inclusion. Also, a bit of light-piping now and then is always welcome.
assembling a Neo-G1/TF:TM cast. Please PM if you have (or know of) the following at a reasonable price: Classics or Henkei Astrotrain, Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, or 3rd Party iGear Ratchet and Ironhide.
Also looking for Universe Repugnus and Overbite, Frostbite and Longhorn and any Webdiver toys.
craggy
Faction Commander
Posts: 4773
News Credits: 4
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:07 pm

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby Banjo-Tron » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:41 am

Motto: "My banjo is everything; defeat is ukelele"
craggy wrote:FP's Chromedome has a translucent window as well. So his little dude can look out. Usually I'm not bothered by clear windows as a lot of the time all you end up with is the ability to see a bunch of robot parts all folded up inside. With that, and the potential quality issues, and extra cost, I'd rather not have it for most releases, but with headmasters and the like, it's a nice little inclusion. Also, a bit of light-piping now and then is always welcome.


I think the lack of light-piping bothers me more, it's almost the standard with Hasbro now, and the figures without it always look less impressive in my opinion. With regards to clear windows, I'm not sure there are many cases where they could be used, because the design of the figures means that transparent plastic wouldn't be suitable. I'm thinking of the Universe Prowl mould, where the lower legs are necessarily cast in solid plastic but the roof and doors are transparent.

While it's nice to have a clear windscreen, it looks inconsistent if other windows on the same vehicle are just painted. This is a problem with Universe Ironhide also. For consistency's sake, sometimes solid windows are better. I like the opaque look on FansProject's stunticons, and also maketoys Giant look fine with painted windows. But iGear were very lazy with their Hench figure, by just leaving the windows flat black. IMO this looks really cheap. Thankfully, Reprolabels amend this problem nicely.

Image

So I guess I am happy enough with painted windows, so long as they are painted in such a way that doesn't look cheap/lazy :)
User avatar
Banjo-Tron
Godmaster
Posts: 1523
News Credits: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:51 am
Location: UK, Surrey

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby Sodan-1 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:28 pm

Motto: "Motive is a universal weakness."
I don't need transparent windows as a general necessity, but I do think there are examples where they could've really benefited. Personally I think ToyWorld's Aurora should've had transparent windows. I hate that his chest has that giant black block on it.
Sodan-1
Gestalt
Posts: 2345
News Credits: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:35 pm
Location: Right where you'd least expect me to be.

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby Agamemnon » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:57 pm

Motto: ""I'd be the President of the procrastinator's club if I ever got around to submitting my application.""
Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Sodan-1 wrote:I don't need transparent windows as a general necessity, but I do think there are examples where they could've really benefited. Personally I think ToyWorld's Aurora should've had transparent windows. I hate that his chest has that giant black block on it.

Tinted, 8)
william-james88 wrote:Also be weary of hope in this hobby. Hope is just undiscovered disappointment.
My nephew wrote:Bacon is meat candy.
Agamemnon, barebacked rider of flying robo-dragon, and not often constipated either...
(I answer to Ag or Ags. Agamemnon is too long to type. Plus, there is something elemental about calling me Ag. :-D )
User avatar
Agamemnon
Faction Commander
Posts: 4980
News Credits: 10
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:41 am
Location: North Side, Twin Cities
Alt Mode: A donut. Mmmmm...donut
Strength: 5
Intelligence: 9
Speed: 2
Endurance: 6
Rank: 2
Courage: 9
Firepower: 5
Skill: 8

Re: Third party's lack of windows in their offerings

Postby xyl360 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:49 pm

I prefer they not use clear plastics considering what 3rd party figures typically cost. Clear plastic has a nasty habit of becoming brittle and crumbling over time, though it obviously stands up much better than the swirly gold plastic known for GPS.

It's not nearly as flexible and resilient as many colored plastics either, particularly the durable gray plastics used on joints.

As for light piping with clear plastics, Hercules had tons of that as does Uranos.

I can live without the clear windows as it actually looks good to me having the windows painted on the 2 FP not-Stunticons I've acquired so far. It doesn't bother me on the 2 Toyworld not-Throttlebots I've got either.
Image
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I am that which is, which was, and is yet to come.

And you will know my name is MEGATRON when I lay my vengeance upon you!
User avatar
xyl360
City Commander
Posts: 3036
News Credits: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:54 am


Return to Unlicensed and KO Transformers Toys


[ Incoming message. Source unknown. ] No Signal - Please Stand By [ Click to attempt signal recovery... ]


Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "INVINCIBLE RED SONJA #8 Cvr N FOC TMNT Dynamite Comics 2022 JAN228339 8N"
NEW!
INVINCIBLE RED SON ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "MY LITTLE PONY #9 Cvr A IDW Comics 2023 NOV221589 9A (A/CA)Mebberson (W)Bronfman"
MY LITTLE PONY #9 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "INVINCIBLE RED SONJA #9 Cvr N TMNT homage Dynamite Comics 2022 MAR229172 9N"
NEW!
INVINCIBLE RED SON ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TMNT Saturday Morning Adv #26 Cvr A IDW Comics 2025 APR251038 26A (CA) Schoening"
TMNT Saturday Morn ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "DC X SONIC THE HEDGEHOG #4 Cvr B DC Comics 2025 0425DC225 04B (CA) Di Nicuolo"
DC X SONIC THE HED ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TMNT VS STREET FIGHTER #4 Cvr C IDW Comics 2023 JUN231487 4C (CA) Reilly"
NEW!
TMNT VS STREET FIG ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #3 Cvr A Dark Horse Comics 2025 SEP241197 3A MOTU TMNT"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SONIC THE HEDGEHOG #79 Cvr A IDW Comics 2025 APR251018 79A (CA) Thomas"
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SONIC THE HEDGEHOG #79 Cvr C 1:10 RI IDW Comics 2025 APR251020 79C Fourdraine"
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "INVINCIBLE RED SONJA #8 Cvr V FOC 1:11 TMNT Dynamite Comics 2022 JAN228347 8V"
NEW!
INVINCIBLE RED SON ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SONIC THE HEDGEHOG #63 Cvr C 1:10 IDW Comics 2023 MAY231371 63C (CA) Fourdraine"
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "SONIC THE HEDGEHOG #79 Cvr B IDW Comics 2025 APR251019 79B (CA) McGrath"
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TMNT Saturday Morning Adv #26 Cvr B IDW Comics 2025 APR251039 26B (CA) Boxerbun"
TMNT Saturday Morn ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "DC X SONIC THE HEDGEHOG #4 Cvr A DC Comics 2025 0425DC224 04A (CA) Collar"
DC X SONIC THE HED ...
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.

Featured Products on Amazon.com

Buy "Transformers Authentics Megatron" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Studio Series 08 Leader Class Movie 1 Decepticon Blackout" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Class Dinobot Slug" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Titans Return Repugnus, Dastard, and Solus Prime Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Leader Evolution Rodimus Prime" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Bumblebee Movie Toys, Energon Igniters Nitro Bumblebee Action Figure - Included Core Powers Driving Action - Toys for Kids 6 and Up, 7-inch" on AMAZON
Buy "Masterpiece MPM-7 Bumblebee" on AMAZON
Buy "Cyberverse Warrior Class Windblade" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Legends Class Brawn" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Combiner Wars - MEGATRON Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Playskool Heroes Rescue Bots Optimus Prime Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Darkmoon and Astrotrain" on AMAZON
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.