The Energon Pub

So after a bit of off topic discussion in the titans returns thread, I realised there was a good conversation to be had about Titan class.

So sound off about your thoughts on this size class, do you love them as big centre pieces or are they too big for your collections.

Personally I won't be getting any titan class toys, but this is because I have no space for them. The toys themselves I like but I'll just have to look at the nice pictures everyone puts up

I have no problem with titan class as I find it the only way to do the characters like Metroplex, Fort Max, etc properly. They're supposed to be towering ridiculously over everyone else. The only problem I see is a future release of Unicron or Primus. They're supposed to be the biggest of the big so having them in the same size class as Metroplex doesn't make sense. I think it would've worked a bit better if fort max and metro were devastators size that way they could still release the two planet formers without it looking too off, or without having to increase them to 3 feet.

Space is less of a problem than affording them. I only managed to get Devy by just happening to have a little extra cash around while it was being sold. No such luck with Metroplex, and I'm guessing Fort Max will also not be making it's way into my life.

Well... I tend to get little Transformers -- Legends, Kreons -- so a humongous 'base' would be pretty cool. But, part of the reason I get tiny TFs is because they're cheap. Going from the occasional $10 purchase to a $200 one is pretty drastic.

Literal or figurative?

I like mine big. So I can do a pew pew make believe Battle of Autobot City 2005. Trouble is Companies wince on such products. The smaller products, more shelf space more small sales. Cityformers eat up to much space hence their limited releases whether we want to admit it or not.

Just how many USS Flagg's were sold anyway? They were big and EXPENSIVE.

They HAVE a place in our collections when we engage in imagination play. I'm using this icon x infinity addressed to Primus to keep the guy/gal at Hasbro who green lit the Cityformers class line. May he/she still maintain his/her clout at the executive board so we'll have more Cityformers in the future.

May the Cityformers line be just as successful as the first..........updated Metroflex was.

May we have a future Scorponok, Trypticon, Omega Supreme and even a modern Overlord to fight with the headmaster Godginrai.

May we have mini city type packs similar to the Micromaster line back in 1991 where the mini components/buildings. could be assembled into a mini city which can connect to Fortmax and the rest.

The Titan Class was introduced to handle the larger figures, such as Metroplex and Devastator, and even the now-seemingly-failed new Fort Max. The fact they called it a Titan Class was just to emphasize size and damage to our wallets. Also, I would love it if there is an updated Tidal Wave in the TR line.

I just had an idea which will never be realized by Hasbro, regarding the Primus and Unicron figures. What if we got a figure that was almost human-sized, and we could only get it by buying its pieces separately, which would be around Metroplex-sized? Like arms and legs that are as big as Plex and and a torso and a head (which would be a bit smaller on Primus, but probably 2 feet on Unicron, considering his horns). Obviously, the completed figure would be around $800 to $1000, but it would definitely stand out. I don't know if Hasbro or any other toy company ever did something like this before. It would be like the Marvel Universe figures where an arm or a leg came with a certain figure that would assemble into a larger figure. Except, you know, Titan-sized. And as with Tidal Wave and Devastator, the limbs could transform into their own vehicles.

Rodimus Prime wrote:The Titan Class was introduced to handle the larger figures, such as Metroplex and Devastator, and even the now-seemingly-failed new Fort Max. The fact they called it a Titan Class was just to emphasize size and damage to our wallets. Also, I would love it if there is an updated Tidal Wave in the TR line.

I just had an idea which will never be realized by Hasbro, regarding the Primus and Unicron figures. What if we got a figure that was almost human-sized, and we could only get it by buying its pieces separately, which would be around Metroplex-sized? Like arms and legs that are as big as Plex and and a torso and a head (which would be a bit smaller on Primus, but probably 2 feet on Unicron, considering his horns). Obviously, the completed figure would be around $800 to $1000, but it would definitely stand out. I don't know if Hasbro or any other toy company ever did something like this before. It would be like the Marvel Universe figures where an arm or a leg came with a certain figure that would assemble into a larger figure. Except, you know, Titan-sized. And as with Tidal Wave and Devastator, the limbs could transform into their own vehicles.

Now that's an interesting idea, one that would only work though if solely marketed for collectors, which means hasbro would have to do their best not to screw it up. As you say though price would be a deciding factor as would space.

A compromise could be a leader class component that cones with a voyager or deluxe exclusive figure that in unicrons case could represent his heralds and in primus case his knights (or primes)

Thanks for the comments so far guys, seems a lot of you aren't bothered too much on space concerns other than noideaforaname who just collects the smaller guys and gals

Rodimus Prime wrote:The Titan Class was introduced to handle the larger figures, such as Metroplex and Devastator, and even the now-seemingly-failed new Fort Max. The fact they called it a Titan Class was just to emphasize size and damage to our wallets. Also, I would love it if there is an updated Tidal Wave in the TR line.

I just had an idea which will never be realized by Hasbro, regarding the Primus and Unicron figures. What if we got a figure that was almost human-sized, and we could only get it by buying its pieces separately, which would be around Metroplex-sized? Like arms and legs that are as big as Plex and and a torso and a head (which would be a bit smaller on Primus, but probably 2 feet on Unicron, considering his horns). Obviously, the completed figure would be around $800 to $1000, but it would definitely stand out. I don't know if Hasbro or any other toy company ever did something like this before. It would be like the Marvel Universe figures where an arm or a leg came with a certain figure that would assemble into a larger figure. Except, you know, Titan-sized. And as with Tidal Wave and Devastator, the limbs could transform into their own vehicles.

Kind off a bummer that the sentiment for Hb Fortmax has been an utter fail. Maybe the sentiment will change once a lot of the fans get to play with him soon.

I really really really want this line to continue.

As for the the concept you presented about that parts toy, only other toy company who would pull such a stunt are the domestic Japanese ones. Though not "human" size but I've seen figures whose prices are soooooo out there I'm wondering if they were crazy releasing them in the first place. Will they like recoup their investment?

fenrir72 wrote:Kind of a bummer that the sentiment for Fortmax has been an utter fail. Maybe the sentiment will change once a lot of the fans get to play with him soon.

To be fair, that comment was based on my personal opinion of the figure as I have seen it in reviews so far, and having had the Metroplex figure in my hand before, as well as from reading others' comments so far, which is to say a small part of the fandom. So that's just me not liking it, I wasn't trying to speak for anyone else. Maybe I should have phrased it differently.

As for the the concept you presented about that parts toy, only other toy company who would pull such a stunt are the domestic Japanese ones. Though not "human" size but I've seen figures whose prices are soooooo out there I'm wondering if they were crazy releasing them in the first place. Will they like recoup their investment?

Like ZW said, it would have to be marketed to collectors only, no way in hell the average parent would buy a 2-foot tall arm for an even taller completed figure in a toy store. So it would have to be done as an exclusive through a convention or an online store. Or maybe TRU has the stones to distribute it. In any case, it would be sold to those of us who know exactly what we're getting and are invested enough in the concept and the character the figures represent (Primus and Unicron would be the only 2 this could be done for, I would think.) And yes, that heralds-and-knights idea is also very good. But just think, a 5-foot-tall Transformer that actually transforms as a whole AND as a set of smaller parts (like Tidal Wave, except on a larger scale). The detail would be mind-blowing, and the engineering would be near-impossible.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Kind of a bummer that the sentiment for Fortmax has been an utter fail. Maybe the sentiment will change once a lot of the fans get to play with him soon.

To be fair, that comment was based on my personal opinion of the figure as I have seen it in reviews so far, and having had the Metroplex figure in my hand before, as well as from reading others' comments so far, which is to say a small part of the fandom. So that's just me not liking it, I wasn't trying to speak for anyone else. Maybe I should have phrased it differently.

As for the the concept you presented about that parts toy, only other toy company who would pull such a stunt are the domestic Japanese ones. Though not "human" size but I've seen figures whose prices are soooooo out there I'm wondering if they were crazy releasing them in the first place. Will they like recoup their investment?

Like ZW said, it would have to be marketed to collectors only, no way in hell the average parent would buy a 2-foot tall arm for an even taller completed figure in a toy store. So it would have to be done as an exclusive through a convention or an online store. Or maybe TRU has the stones to distribute it. In any case, it would be sold to those of us who know exactly what we're getting and are invested enough in the concept and the character the figures represent (Primus and Unicron would be the only 2 this could be done for, I would think.) And yes, that heralds-and-knights idea is also very good. But just think, a 5-foot-tall Transformer that actually transforms as a whole AND as a set of smaller parts (like Tidal Wave, except on a larger scale). The detail would be mind-blowing, and the engineering would be near-impossible.

Part by part fig would be a novel concept. Again, a big risk project for any toy company with deep pockets and the market share target would be so narrow. Maybe a 3 foot one would be viable 'cause if the risk would fail, I'd be voted out of the board of directors in a flash.

As for that issue with 'max, no intention to start another discussion. Just hope/pray that we get more Cityformers in the future.

I've read many an article concerning failed products, whether it be vehicles, videogame consoles or other toys and especially now with social media, sometimes bad press, whether it be deserved or not can kill a product even before it starts to take off. That's what my primary concern was in the first place.

This as much as I gleaned from those many articles/blogs related to how toylines fail:

Cause of failure of toyline/products

1. Stupid conceptualization of the product (many examples)
2. Insistence on targeting just the "boys only" market (many examples)
3. Pricing (unless justified): PS3 first release
4. Lack of advertisement/media support to increase awareness of the product
5. The product has run it's course (TF end of G1)
6. Overstock or multiple versions of a single product (cough.....MOTU (revived version))
7. Timing and location

I would like to see this class go bye bye. As I said in the other thread, I feel the time and money put in to it would be better served making better figures in the smaller classes.

Ironhidensh wrote:I would like to see this class go bye bye. As I said in the other thread, I feel the time and money put in to it would be better served making better figures in the smaller classes.

What about "playsets" types instead of Transforming Cityformers? Something like the Terror Dome or the Pitt during the G.I. Joe 80s days? Or even something like the USS Flagg? Don't you miss those times?

Back then, I couldn't even afford the "Flagg". Now I'm after those lost years.

fenrir72 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:I would like to see this class go bye bye. As I said in the other thread, I feel the time and money put in to it would be better served making better figures in the smaller classes.

What about "playsets" types instead of Transforming Cityformers? Something like the Terror Dome or the Pitt during the G.I. Joe 80s days? Or even something like the USS Flagg? Don't you miss those times?

Back then, I couldn't even afford the "Flagg". Now I'm after those lost years.

Now, I don't wish to put words into ironhidesh's mouth but if I recall correctly, I think it was that they are too big for his collection purposes and that his kids would break them during play (which is quite bad at the price point)

fenrir72 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:I would like to see this class go bye bye. As I said in the other thread, I feel the time and money put in to it would be better served making better figures in the smaller classes.

What about "playsets" types instead of Transforming Cityformers?

I kinda agree with Ironhidensh, especially with what we ended up with in Titan Class. The figures are just too simple. But, that's in hindsight. I also do think Fort Max would have fared better if he was a playset instead of just a figure. Like, if he came with a set of Legends Class figures to occupy him in city/base mode. Or, better yet, Hasbro needs to bring back the Micromaster-sized figures, if only as part of suggested playsets. They were even smaller than Legends.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:I would like to see this class go bye bye. As I said in the other thread, I feel the time and money put in to it would be better served making better figures in the smaller classes.

What about "playsets" types instead of Transforming Cityformers?

I kinda agree with Ironhidensh, especially with what we ended up with in Titan Class. The figures are just too simple. But, that's in hindsight. I also do think Fort Max would have fared better if he was a playset instead of just a figure. Like, if he came with a set of Legends Class figures to occupy him in city/base mode. Or, better yet, Hasbro needs to bring back the Micromaster-sized figures, if only as part of suggested playsets. They were even smaller than Legends.

A "literal" non transforming Fortress Maximus or "Autobot City". But of course the "transforming" feature as an added treat.

As you mentioned on hindsight, what if it was Fortmax who got released first? Maybe the criticism wouldn't be to strong. Now, 'max has ended up with bits and pieces of 'flex. For some, that would be a hard pill to swallow to get a somewhat recycled fig.

Btw, just for the say of it, using the Rule of Nine when calculating burn injuries in humans, based on my cursory evaluation of the Titan Fortmax here are the proportional new and recycled parts (yup, I have waaaaaay too much free time in between "Emergency" calls).

Recycled

Front Arms at 2.5% each= 4.5%
Chest/torso front at 9.0% but from what I see, only half the chest is recycled so= 4.5%
Chest/torso back = 4.5%
Legs at 9% each but again I estimate only about half is actually recycled so 4.5% per legs so x 2 = 9%

So total would be = 22.5% of Fortmax are recycled

New parts

Head= 9.0%
Half chest front= 4.5%
Half chest back= 4.5%
Front arms= 2.5% x 2= 4.5%
Back arms= 4.5% x 2= 9.0%
Trunk/groin= 10.0%
Part of the legs= 4.5% x 2= 9.0%
Back trunk= 9.0%
Back legs= 9.0 x 2=18.0%

Total new parts= 77.5 % of Fortmax are new

77.5 + 22.5 % = 100%

Fenir, I think most people's problems are that he was a retool at all. Then it was the nature of the retool that he wasn't able to assume the same forms as the G1 toy.

This is kinda the discussion I want to have about this price point though. Retools are something we expect now, they've been apart of the line since its inception
For the price point of the titan class, however, it can lead to bad taste in people's mouths having to pay that much for something that already partially own. Hence a lot of people waiting for the inevitable sales.

I just wonder if Hasbro are paying attention and putting everything into trypticon that they can.

ZeroWolf wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:I would like to see this class go bye bye. As I said in the other thread, I feel the time and money put in to it would be better served making better figures in the smaller classes.

What about "playsets" types instead of Transforming Cityformers? Something like the Terror Dome or the Pitt during the G.I. Joe 80s days? Or even something like the USS Flagg? Don't you miss those times?

Back then, I couldn't even afford the "Flagg". Now I'm after those lost years.

Now, I don't wish to put words into ironhidesh's mouth but if I recall correctly, I think it was that they are too big for his collection purposes and that his kids would break them during play (which is quite bad at the price point)

Your recall is good.

As for when I was a kid, I was never really in to playsets. My mom couldn't really aford them, for one, and I prefered to use my imagination and surrounding furniture and yard. The only players I ever had were Cat's Lair from Thundercats, and Boulder Hill from M.A.S.K.

And since we're discussing Titan Class and playsets, how about an Ark playset? Like, a 4 or 5-foot long and maybe 3-feet wide Ark (from any continuity, but I'd LOVE the Ark from the G1 comics) with Legends class figures inside. Once again, it would be for collectors, unless it was really flimsy and hollow, which would drop the price, then maybe average parents would buy it. Kinda like that Milennium Falcon Eric played with on That 70s Show, but maybe a bit larger. And even though the book does have inaccuracies, I'd like it if Hasbro used Furman's design plans from "The Ultimate Guide to Transformers" that came out in 2007. In it was an awesome 2-page feature of the Ark. This right here: I couldn't find a bigger sized pic on short notice. Anyone else for an Ark playset?

The price and the retooled parts. That's the heart of the problem among the opposition. A good point of contention and not without merit.

I don't know if this might be related but if you all recall the DotM Ark? So thin and light. Supposedly used as a reference/example of creating an even bigger figure (TF:Prime Optimus Maximus) with the same amount of plastics as the Ark. Looking back then, Hb didn't want to risk too much on a bigger figure.

Could this be the same reason with 'max? 22% recycled/retool parts?

Anyway Irondensh.........You had those PLAYSETS?! You lucky lucky boy.......and yet now you don't dig them playsets types anymore? Why?

fenrir72 wrote:
Anyway Irondensh.........You had those PLAYSETS?! You lucky lucky boy.......and yet now you don't dig them playsets types anymore? Why?

I never really played with them. They were just there. Pricey scenery that wasn't as much fun to play on as the furniture.

Playsets are too limiting.

I'm also not a huge fan of play sets. Had a few different ones as a kid but I never got much out of it. I feel like the draw with them is the lights, sounds and other gimmicks and I never cared for all that as a kid. I just wanted a fun, good looking toy my imagination fills in the rest. Even now I won't buy something with lights and sounds in it and if I do I immediately take out the batteries.

steals_your_goats wrote:I'm also not a huge fan of play sets. Had a few different ones as a kid but I never got much out of it. I feel like the draw with them is the lights, sounds and other gimmicks and I never cared for all that as a kid. I just wanted a fun, good looking toy my imagination fills in the rest. Even now I won't buy something with lights and sounds in it and if I do I immediately take out the batteries.

If you read my previous posts, I detest batteries. But every since I've seen those holiday catalog, I've always been smitten with Playsets. I remember that particular Hotwheels gas station, didn't have batteries but lots'a working parts/features. Similar to G1 Fortmax. Elevator, jail, gravity and inertia powered launchers. Even the original Metroplex had that gravity powered launchers too.

Anyways, personal preference among you guys (fortunate of you back then to have one or two of them playsets.)

Had to drop in on the playset conversation. I personally love them. As a kid they just kind of gave a centerpiece to play around. Putting pillows under blankets to make a rugged landscape around some base was always fun. It's kind of sad that playsets have mostly died out except with Lego. When I had the floor space in my room I loved to put Metroplex in his city mode and set up battles around him with the legends class figures. I'm looking forward to hooking up Fort Max with the Leader class bases when I get him.

For the Titan-class as is... too big and expensive for me. And I... already have a third-party Fort Max. So I personally don't feel I need another one of him. I'll barely have enough room for Trypticon when he comes out.

Playsets, though? I could dig an Ark.

My main problem with the Titan Class is that it's not proportional to the other classes in terms of detail and complexity. Its just big. That wasnt the case in G1. Fort Max and Scorponok for instance have more articulation than the smaller classes, more playability, more details and waaaaay more accessories. For max himself comes with extra figures and they each have their own weapons, its pretty cool. Scorponok has a crap ton of accessories for you to build the base with and turn it totally different from any other mode. They also have extra features like working elevators, ramps and moving legs.

Armada understood that too. The best toy from the Armada line is Unicron, he also happens to be the biggest with the most features and the toughest transformation (even though it is just rolling him into a ball). He has a bunch of projectiles and light features at a few point (one being his hand). Oh and his fingers are articulated. And we make joke on RID/Beast Machines Primal being too big at Supreme Class but he offered more than any other Best Machines toy and had the detail and paint and features to match his class.

But now, the biggest class just looks like an upscale. That started with Cybertron where the supreme class Starscream was literally just the voyager one upscaled. There was no added details, the sculpting was just stretched out and it shows. For Devastator, Takara made the design and then asked Hasbro what class they wanted and Hasbro chose for them to be voyagers. There was no need to. These guys are now individually MP scale with the detail of a deluxe toy.

Now lets look at Titans Return. At the leader scale we actually have toys that have 3 modes, on being a base, they are headmasters, and Blaster has payability features with the legends class casettes. The Titan class has a price that is more than 3 times Leader Blaster. Does it have 3 times the features, 3 times the detail, 3 times the playability, 3 times the complexity, 3 times the acessories? No, its just big.

So in the end, I am all for titan class if it actually gives you more than the other classes and is proportional in detail, playability and accessories as was the case in the G1 era and the early Supreme Class TFs.