The Energon Pub

Transformers 3 and Beyond
An article by Seibertron board member, Skywarp-2


Well So after the SDCC 2009 Comicon, we learned from Tyrese Gibson, that Micheal Bay will indeed be returning to helm the 3rd installment of the transformers Franchise..

What can we as fans do to ensure that we have a 6 movie run??

Fan Pressure,Fan Pressure, great ideas, with more Fan pressure..

the problem has been, in the past say, with the 90's examples of ruination due to "Hollywood" and their views creeping into what is normally a great franchise.. I.E. the Original Tim Burton Batman Series..

arguably the replacement of Michael Keaton, and the director for Batman 3 was a bad stroke..the script writer had autonomy, and Michael Keaton declined to do the movie because of the horribly written script.. Had Warner Bros. had any guts, they would have listened to their director Tim Burton, got a new script and kept Michael Keaton for what would have been golden franchise movies there after.. instead it paved the way for George Clooney and Go Go Bat Ice Skates in Batman and Robin.. a Completely notorious flop. However, this little Hollywood lesson may have taught the industry that realism, and Practicality will no doubt win Over Movie goers in the end..this lesson though still stingy, paved the way for the recent Dark knight and Batman Begins flicks, So has Hollywood learned form these mistakes?

Take for example, movie franchises with a certain amount of Magic only last with that magic for a brief amount of time. Sitcoms like friends had magic, and it's time ended rightfully so, just as the Original Star Wars series Magic was held, and ended there after.. the Prequel series, though strong with Fanbase to a certain extent was no where as hailed Story and Acting wise, like the original. What is there to be learned by this?

Hollywood, and their executives have a recent history in the fantasy, comic Book, and sci-fi realm to now guide them to Box office success. This assumes they follow this example and don't repeat the mistakes of the past. I for one don't want to see a George Clooney campy version of Transformers in the future. However, I can see Jeremy Irons playing an evil scientist infected by Transformers technology and becoming a cyborg Doctor Arkevil, (Name change of course). The Live action Transformers Movie is what it is, gruff, alien and scrap metal like robots, with little or no in depth backside story to the bots themselves..Lots of action, and lots of Frustrating CGI fighting. Frustrating in that you get what looks like sneak peek shots of the robots battling in like 3 to 4 seconds, while you get 23 minutes of Shia Labeouf Saying "NO! Oh No!", and "No!" again..

So what can Hasbro, Paramount, Steve Spielberg, Michael Bay, Roberto Orci, and Alex Kurtzman learn from Hollywood's past?

Don't screw it up!

If we are going to move forwards with a franchise and expand into about 6 movies, effectively giving Michael Bay this Movie series as his "Star Wars" trilogy, then there should be some key story points and in depth ideas brought to the series..If you are going to do a trilogy, the what the 2nd Movie brings up is a cliffhanger for the last movie, and brings ideas and things into focus that will ultimately have a direct effect on the last of the trilogy..

For instance, the Star Wars New Hope movie sets up the premise, the characters, and the Universe in which we begin to learn about the force, the Empire, etc. In Return of the Jedi, we get more of a back story, the villains gain an upper hand, and our heroes are left in a precarious set of circumstance, and being split apart form each other. In return of the Jedi, family issues between Luke and his relationship to his father are resolved and we see the final death blow to the empire bringing the more adult acting characters and a graduation effect in the end.. Leia in her slave outfit presents a sort of womanhood in her appearance, no long timid and hidden. Luke has become a Jedi and masters his faith and belief, asserting himself and facing the emperor..

So these ideas and story plot points, simple Human emotional responses and evolutions in attitudes and experience give us a depth we would not otherwise have.

where have we gotten to?

The Biggest thing I can offer up is my own opinion. I am in no means a "polished writer" Nor am I a "seasoned Producer of cinema" But what I am is a fan of movies, and fantasy. I love a good Science Fiction series, and Giant sentient Robots is one of the top tiers of that realm of interest.

So how does the Writers and studio execs make this budding franchise work? Well if they decide to just go and do a 3rd movie, then it is up to the writers to finally put a closing statement on their storyline for the Transformers movie. in the first flick we had the battle for the Allspark. We learned that Cybertron was dying and that the Allspark is needed to revive their civilization. We learned that sector 7 was a secret government group that had been aware of the "Transformers/aliens" before the story took place with Sam and Mikaela. Megatron is awakened, a battle for the Allspark ensues, and Megatron gets the full brunt of the Allspark's power, in effect only leaving a shard, which Optimus Prime pulls from Megatron's chest. The Defeated Decepticons are dumped in the Marianna Trench and left for dead, with all the Autobots and Decepticons battle covered up by the military.

In the second film, we see a bit more of a back story develop, we learn of the Fallen. We learn that the council of Primes had once found a way to produce a specific type of radiation called Energon, which is a process where by they harvest a sun, and turn it into a black hole, and the resulting release of energy, they turn into Energon, which will maintain and keep their race from aging and eventually falling apart.. with the Allspark gone, the only power source they have left is also gone, and all hope for their race to survive and revive Cybertron is also gone. Megatron gets rebuilt and the shard from the first flick is stolen to revive him. The back story for the fallen is revealed, and we find out that the original Cybertronians were tribal like, and their language is older then the Decepticons and Autobots..The fallen is the 1st Decepticon which from his face is their Symbol. We also learn that Prime is the last Prime of their race, and the Matrix of leadership is nothing more then a power source key for their Sun harvesting Machine..but the Matrix is used to bring back Prime to life, and in the end we find out that Prime can combine with another Autobot's body and use that as temporary weaponry..We see Jetfire rip out his spark chamber, leaving a possibility his character could be rebuilt and return as a much younger Skyfire.

there was also some story progression with Sam and Mikaela, a relationship beginning to take shape, and a somewhat small history shown to exist..Sector 7 has been shut down, and replaced by a Joint US and Autobot task force called "Nest" which seek and hunt down Decepticons in an effort to defeat their threat and free Earth. A new "Obama" liaison and administration that Blames the Autobots for the war on Earth, and places the military at odds with the Defense Secretary.. a direct comment on current political events. Even Slyly adding into the movie the current President's name in a brief TV news cast soundbite in the movie..

Where we can go?

So where do they go from here? what story plots will they have to develop to bring the substance and the storyline full circle. I don't know the answer to that, but I do feel that as a story, the loose ends from the 2nd film and the 1st film should be tied up regardless of the directions the studio decides to dictate. As Writers, Orci and Kurtzman, are going to have to go back and review what they have created, and decide what is the end game for the trilogy? How do the loose ends developed in the story get tied up and make the package nice and neat going forward? If they have no more prospects of doing a movie past 3, then the last flick needs to finish off the story and bring the whole thing to a close..

What is the ultimate Goal for the Autobots? Restoration of Cybertron? Their past and history has been lost to the ravages of the war and time, as was the premise established in the 2nd movie. Even the Cybertronian language had been forgotten and was unreadable to many of their race. How does the interaction between the Humans and the robots proceed? The Studio and writers were right about 1 thing, that the "Human factor" is as important to the movie story, as is the CGI and Robots themselves. Much to angst of hardcore Transformers fans who have become accustomed to the Robots themselves as characters. Yet if you hearken back to the original 1984 transformers cartoon, what made it work was arguably the interaction between the world of Super Transforming Robots and that of the Earth. Spike and Sparkplug the father and son helping the Autobots in their war against the Decepticons. The nefarious plans of Doctor Arkevil and his threats of world Domination by using the Decepticons, in tern they use him for their own goals.

In the 1986 movie we shot forwards, and lost much of Spike and Bumblebees role int he series, replaced by Daniel his son, and evens till after that we moved into the 3rd series and lost the human factor almost all together. Which arguably killed the series coupled with a weak storyline and character development. No Prime and Megatron dichotomy existed between Rodimus Prime and Galvatron.

If the series is to progress beyond 3 films then there should be a story direction that grabs the public, and unnecessary deaths does not a good plot make. If the writers and the studio wish to see a long and successful franchise, then the story must become more indepth and focused on the Transformers Back story, and have a more aligned Human interaction. Transformers 3 should have the Decepticons emerging as the victors in the end and set up a cliff hanger for the continuation of the series, ultimately ending in War being won by the Autobots, and Cybertron restored to glory by the 6TH film.

So the 1st movie set up the premise, and brought us the beginnings of the war. The 2nd Flick brought us some back story, legend and a bit of Transformer history. It also brought us potential Human antagonists for the Autobots, and a human alliance that made you feel as if Epps and Lennox were buddies at arms with the Autobots.. A comradeship that was only briefly explored..that should be expanded on.

In the 3rd film, we should see the Megatron and Starscream interaction come to ahead, and even some betrayal by Megatron's Second in command. What ultimately happens in Transformers 3 should set up for a spike and climax to continue through Transformers 4 and then wind down in Transformers 5, and then close out and wrap up everything in Transformers 6. Assuming they go that far, if not then Transformers 3 should wrap up the loose ends from Transformers 1 and 2, and leave the audience with a sense of accomplishment, that the overall story for 1,2,and 3 is consistent and achieves what it had been set up to achieve..

Should Optimus Prime ultimately die? well that story has become part of the original Mythos, but why repeat the sins of the past like in the 1986 flick. It didn't do so well then, and why would you want to attempt to do that now..

Should Ultra Magnus be in the 3rd film? I say yes, bring on the full truck and Trailer combiner and make an awesome commander in waiting for the story, it will seem as if optimus as a great leader has always planned to train an apprentice for his role someday.. and great story plot and very human in appeal.

Should Rodimus Prime emerge? assuming they decide to go forward with 6 movies. Otherwise introducing new bots in the 3rd flick beyond what is already established would be confusing, especially if there are already bots like ratchet, sideswipe, etc..those characters need more development in the 3rd flick.. See I am conflicted on this idea, only because it didn't go over well in the original series with the whole rodimus replacement thingy. However, if the writers believe that Rodimus Prime in the live action movie can further the story as well maybe a New addition to the "Prime" Dynasty, then maybe it could work..Like for instance Optimus Prime using the Matrix begins to reform a council of Primes Beginning with Rodimus who is a great general, or Sentinel who is also a great leader in another sector of Space.. and they form a new council of Primes.. with Ultra Magnus waiting in the wings..

Should Unicron eventually show up in the movie series? I think that if they push forward with 6 total flicks that unicron could be done, but not as a full fledged planet..maybe a robotic monster that will drill down to t a planets core, and consume it leaving that world dead and hollow.. now that would work well. Or possibly a space swarm of robots seeking to convert all life into energy and it's swarm as a whole is called the Unicron..either way, I don't think a giant planetoid would serve the series well..though in CGI it would look awesome..

In summary of what I have written, it is basically up to the writers, and the studio to determine where they take this franchise form here.. ultimately my opinion is a drop of water in a bucket of ideas..but if Orci,a nd Kurtzman are to end this trilogy on a good note, then the toeing up the 1st 2 films and their plot wholes is a must to do in the 3rd flick.. and a resolution to the series is needed..maybe an opening for another 3 movies.. but most of the story needs to come to a final conclusion..

If they are indeed going to move forward on 6 movies, then they should NOT repeat the mistakes of the past.. do not let time relapse between the first 3 movies and the last 3 as they did with Star Wars.. and the director and major characters must remain the same.. if that formula gets reworked, it could have the opposite reaction to the fan and mass audience community..

Had Bryan Singer and the original Writers been involved in X-3 It would have fared better then to kill the franchise with major character mass killings..and cheesy dialogue. Just as they did with Batman series in the 1990's and so on..

change is good, but in some cases people become a fan of what they initially liked int he first place, and with movies, what works isn't always needed to be fixed..keeping a director, major actors, and writers is key to the success of movies that have the potential to live on as a franchise.. that is how popular sitcoms last so long. We tune in to watch what we are accustomed to seeing and are involved in their story..Once all the newness wears off, it is ultimately the story we become enamored with..


They have a chance if a 6 movie Franchise is planned and all participants are on board..but I hope that if we are to only get 3 movie, they tie everything up and leave us audience members with a satisfactory ending. Not like that Screwed up Ending to the Matrix Trilogy!


Well, if my little article was off base on anything I do apologize. This is just my opinion of the series, and what has come before. I may be in error on some things, but the bottom line of what I believe is this...Transformers 3 the Live action movie has potential, the franchise has the potential to succeed to 6 films. But with how Hollywood and it's "idea" machines work sometimes, that potential is wasted..My great hope is that Orci, Kurtzman, Bay, Spielberg, Paramount, and Hasbro have all learned from the history of the past movie franchises, and can move forward to make this series what it potentially may become, a great long lasting sci-fi ride into the world of the transformers!


Sincerely,
Skywarp-2

A very well written statement Skywarp, However as much as I want to see TF3 as well as the returning cast come back I just really want TF3 to be the final transformers film.

I know some people on here are gonna think that the idea of TF3 being the last one in the series would sound like a bad idea but honestly I think that even though the TF films are doing extremely well in the box office I think the third one should come and the series is drawn to a close.

As for ideas I dont know, I dont want Unicron or Galvatron to appear because I dont know how you can wrap a story round those 2 characters. As for ending wise I should think that the third film gets a great 100% perfect ending which puts the final nail in the coffin. 6 movies isnt as satisfying as it would appear to most people who are fans of Sagas like Star Wars.

This is how I would see the second trilogy (if made) would go yearwise.

TF4 - 2014

TF5 - 2016

TF6 - 2018

..... Honestly I think 3 movies of TF are really enough. Also I get the feeling that other 80's franchises like He-man, Thundercats etc. that are waiting for there big screen debut are kinda being overshadowed by Transformers abit, this is just my view. Even though G.I. Joe is coming out next month I think they could have made it abit earlier

Plus as exciting as these movies are getting and they get better each time they progress but I cant stress but go on other message boards and see other people have positive/negative views on the Transformers and its beginning to get abit over exaggerate.

I think now the time has come for Transformers 3 to be the last one and lets keep it at that. Let other 80's movies come along.

Skullgrin140 wrote:A very well written statement Skywarp, However as much as I want to see TF3 as well as the returning cast come back I just really want TF3 to be the final transformers film.

I know some people on here are gonna think that the idea of TF3 being the last one in the series would sound like a bad idea but honestly I think that even though the TF films are doing extremely well in the box office I think the third one should come and the series is drawn to a close.

there is nothing wrong with having that feeling, or belief..I too at some point questioned whether or not a 4th, 5th or even a 6th film would be a good thing overall for the genre.. however, there is so much back story and History that has only been lightly touched upon by the first 2 movies.. and I feel that if Orci, and Kurtzman don't expand the Transformers history and range the movies will feel very light and unsatisfactory story wise if ended in just a 3rd movie,

Maybe a glimpse at Autobot outposts and such, stretched out to span the Galaxy looking for the Allspark and giving a larger universal view of the characters and back story, and maybe a shot here and there of Transformers with a couple of strange Green aliens..similar to the quick shots of Cybertron. Just a few clips like that would do wonders in explaining where Sideswipe and other Autobots came from and how they travel the stars would be a neat thing to delve into as well.. like a quick shot of a Cybertronian pod doing a space bridge jump across half the galaxy to earth orbit and so on..clips and little tidbits like this would have to be worked into a story line, and honestly to tie up the loose ends and holes in the previous 2 movies, it is gonna take more then just 1 to do that..unless you compress story and then the movie feels rushed, like Revenge of the Fallen felt..That movie had so much story it could have been expanded on and filmed as 2 separate movies..

Maybe they'll do an expanded release of both the 1st flick and the 2nd..and have a bit more robot back story and some other story holes and things explained..

Skullgrin140 wrote:As for ideas I dont know, I dont want Unicron or Galvatron to appear because I dont know how you can wrap a story round those 2 characters.

I can, you see with this live action movie, not everything has to be done like the original movies.. take for instance the idea I put forth above, that Prime now has the Matrix inside of him, and with this item, he can upgrade other Autobots and make them a "Prime" as he is..Sentinel, and Rodimus are the next up.. Megatron goes after the matrix, and become an upgraded version of himself.. going mad he declares himself now to be Galvatron and there you have it..a sort of tie in to the 1986 movie, and yet it is it's own thing.. Magnus is chosen by Optimus as the new Lord High protector, rather then a New Prime.. and is upgraded, with the armor trailer..then becoming the new Lord High Protector Ultra Magnus!! Ultra Magnus and Rodimus Prime defeat Galvatron..

As for Unicron, it doesn't have to be a direct threat to earth in order for Unicron to be in the movie.. all that the movie writers really need do is to design a Unicron as a robot that devours planets cores, or a swarm of other smaller robots that combine and devour life on worlds for fuel, or a Large Super Robot that is out past Jupiter or something that takes the Autobots igniting some kind of weapon to destroy it..Not as grand as the 1986 Huge Planetoid, but a bit more realistic..

Skullgrin140 wrote:As for ending wise I should think that the third film gets a great 100% perfect ending which puts the final nail in the coffin. 6 movies isnt as satisfying as it would appear to most people who are fans of Sagas like Star Wars.

This is how I would see the second trilogy (if made) would go yearwise.

TF4 - 2014

TF5 - 2016

TF6 - 2018

..... Honestly I think 3 movies of TF are really enough. Also I get the feeling that other 80's franchises like He-man, Thundercats etc. that are waiting for there big screen debut are kinda being overshadowed by Transformers abit, this is just my view. Even though G.I. Joe is coming out next month I think they could have made it abit earlier

Honestly there is a lot of preparation and Deals that have to be made before they could do Gi Joe and then you have the rights and ownership of properties like Thundercats, and He-Man.. Legal issues, and so on.. it's a convoluted Process.. I am amazed we get any movies these days with all the damn attorney involvement, and anti lawsuit stuff that studios have to walk through before doing anything..I am amazed anyone these days can so much as sneeze, and not get sued by someone claiming 2nd hand germ exposure..(Lawyers control the lobbyists, and Government politicians are way out of control. allowing frivolous lawsuits to expand out of control) So My opinion is that Transformers, is only bringing more attention to the 1980's properties, and not overshadowing them..

Skullgrin140 wrote:Plus as exciting as these movies are getting and they get better each time they progress but I cant stress but go on other message boards and see other people have positive/negative views on the Transformers and its beginning to get abit over exaggerate.

I think now the time has come for Transformers 3 to be the last one and lets keep it at that. Let other 80's movies come along.

Trust me, I am there with you, I would love to see more 80's properties come about int he movies.. however, with transformers, the ideas and story put forth by Orci and Kurtzman are so ambitious, that to not have more then a 3rd flick would short change the entire franchise and relegate transformers to a action flick with no substance what so ever.. which over time would destroy how valuable this movie series can become..the potential is there, and a 3rd flick is inevitable..but to not go deeper in depth with story content, and expand on the themes established in the 1st 2 films, and to not close the holes in the time and story lines, would be to make this movie franchise hollow..

And somehow I can not believe Paramount, Michael Bay, Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman, Steven Spielberg, and Hasbro would allow this series to continue without a tie up to the story developments..to finish the film franchise in the 3rd flick with unresolved issues, or no in depth robot history..and answers to holes in Revenge of the fallen.. would be to have the entire lord of the rings books presented with foot notes, and that is it..right now, I feel like I have read 5 chapters of the transformers Novel, and got 8 more to go, and with only the chance I may read 1 chapter more, and a set of footnotes..

I want the rest of the 8 chapters.. which would mean 4 more movies..3 if there are issues.. I can live with 5 Transformers movies.. but 6 would be ideal..

If they go with just one more, a 3rd flick.. then it's like taking those 8 more chapters and abridging them into a quick and incoherent story..

While I value your opinion of the franchise, I still believe in order to tie up the back story and the universe as a whole that Orci and Kutzman have created, they would need at least, at the very least 2 more movies to do it, and do it right so the audience and hard core fans are satisfied.. and to also shut up the critics..with 2 more movies, they could still have all the frivolous fun they could want, and have enough time in the flicks to delve in depth into some substance.

Bottom line..6 would be my fanboy dream, 4 movies (2 more sequels) would be enough to give the writers time to make the movies tie up and make more sense..giving the ending of the franchise a great send off..

Well, I agree with your statement for 2 more movies. Still maybe 3 & 4 can be a 2 part movie to detail more on Unicron (if he does appear) Even though I am strongly protesting agaisnt the idea of 6 movies I think that 3 is a decent number or maybe 4 of TF movies.

I dont see any way of stopping Galvatron or Unicron from getting into Live Action, but if they do appear then I suggest that those 2 characters dont end up suffering like the UT trashy characters.

Still I have a problem that most 80's franchises are sitting at the back and Transformers is getting ahead in the lead and its kinda sad really, Still G.I. Joe is catching up.

Skullgrin140 wrote:Well, I agree with your statement for 2 more movies. Still maybe 3 & 4 can be a 2 part movie to detail more on Unicron (if he does appear) Even though I am strongly protesting agaisnt the idea of 6 movies I think that 3 is a decent number or maybe 4 of TF movies.

I dont see any way of stopping Galvatron or Unicron from getting into Live Action, but if they do appear then I suggest that those 2 characters dont end up suffering like the UT trashy characters.

Still I have a problem that most 80's franchises are sitting at the back and Transformers is getting ahead in the lead and its kinda sad really, Still G.I. Joe is catching up.

yeah Gi Joe will be getting it's debut.. but I Kinda wonder how it can make any money with No cobra Commander.. atleast I have not seen anything on him appearing in the movie trailers..

Thundercat could work if they came to it with a Chronicles of Narnia approach..

He-man, well they learned their lessons after the 1987 flick..Dolf Lundgren...Blech! why tie Earth into a property that is not of Earth.. but pure fantasy!! it never made sense to me..

honestly out of all the 80's properties I'd love to see.. I'd like to see a serious take and star wars epic style silverhawks movie..

Very good article. I for one would like to see more Transformers films after #3. They don't necessarily have to be produced by Bay and crew, and be tied into the first three movies, but nonetheless I would very much like to see more Transformers live-action movies.

TRANS+CRAZY wrote:Very good article. I for one would like to see more Transformers films after #3. They don't necessarily have to be produced by Bay and crew, and be tied into the first three movies, but nonetheless I would very much like to see more Transformers live-action movies.

thanks, I was worried the whole time I was writing it that I was rambling on and on.. but I think that 2 good feed backs is a great start..

I wonder if they do stop the transformers flicks at 3, would they consider a live action Transformers movie set in the future? I could imagine some sort of Human Space Fleet and Transformers side by side together fighting Unicron, in a pseudo Starship troopers kinda way.. that would so rock out!! Space the final War!!

I was wondering though, Would Bay still be attached to the series if he was gonna take it beyond 3? or would he just serve as a producer?

good stuff, good ideas...

and i think Magnus should appear soon and also have a trailer even if prime never does... for magnus its part of him....

The more specific you want the more disappointed you will get.
Its better to be ready for anything.

Skullgrin140 wrote:I was wondering though, Would Bay still be attached to the series if he was gonna take it beyond 3? or would he just serve as a producer?

not sure, he may just walk after the 3, and say someone else do something with it..problem is, it keeps coming back and defying the odds.. makes tons of money, the market for it is huge, and as a career to walk away from it would be folly..he's got major credibility now..he's in the top 10 grossing movies of all time..

agent1159 wrote:good stuff, good ideas...

and i think Magnus should appear soon and also have a trailer even if prime never does... for magnus its part of him....

thanks, I'm not the only one with excellent ideas.. this forum is full of smart wonderful people.

yeah Magnus should definitely have the trailer be part of his body..I can see the rails on the truck/car carrier turning into armor and rail guns as weapons..

TulioDude wrote:The more specific you want the more disappointed you will get.
Its better to be ready for anything.

so true.. so true..I'm ready for anything to be sure, but it is nice to dream..takes the stress out of the hum drum everyday work life..

Good read as usual Skywarp-2. I always enjoy your ideas and musings on Transformers. However I feel you are wrong on a few points.

skywarp-2 wrote:The Studio and writers were right about 1 thing, that the "Human factor" is as important to the movie story, as is the CGI and Robots themselves. Much to angst of hardcore Transformers fans who have become accustomed to the Robots themselves as characters.

I totally believe that this is important, and especially vital for the first two movies, but later movie releases can get away with less human interaction (I am not saying no interaction what so ever; just much less than we've seen in the past two movies). Alhough this idea will only be successful if the story focuses on the human characteristics/feelings of the robots. If the writing is strong enough and the CG robots are able to convey emotions that viewers can relate to, I believe that the movie can be successful with less human interaction. if it is just a 2 hour bot-battle-fest then no.

skywarp-2 wrote:Yet if you hearken back to the original 1984 transformers cartoon, what made it work was arguably the interaction between the world of Super Transforming Robots and that of the Earth. Spike and Sparkplug the father and son helping the Autobots in their war against the Decepticons.

There was another cartoon about transforming robots with emotions that was on Earth and had human allies and wasn't as successful as Transformers. That cartoon was Challenge of the Gobots. If you look at both cartoons, there are a lot of similarities yet one toy franchise became very popular and one became a joke and fell into obscurity. My belief as to why the TF cartoon was more successful was that it didn't talk down to its audience and treated them in a more mature way than COTG did. That is what made Transformers the more successful franchise, and not due solely to the interaction with the humans.

skywarp-2 wrote:In the 1986 movie we shot forwards, and lost much of Spike and Bumblebees role int he series, replaced by Daniel his son, and evens till after that we moved into the 3rd series and lost the human factor almost all together. Which arguably killed the series coupled with a weak storyline and character development.

Again I disagree with parts of this. I do feel that you are correct that the 1986 movie was the trigger to the downfall of the Transformer line in the late 1980's, but it wasn't because of the lack Spike and BB's interaction. It was because Optimus Prime was killed off. Unbeknownst to the Hasbro bigwigs, they just created a cultural icon like Superman, or Spiderman and they offed him within the first 20 min of the film. They even had to bring him "back to life" twice in the cartoons in order to rectify their mistake. But the rest of what you say is true especially about Rodimus and Galvatron not having the same dichotomy.

skywarp-2 wrote:change is good, but in some cases people become a fan of what they initially liked int he first place, and with movies, what works isn't always needed to be fixed..keeping a director, major actors, and writers is key to the success of movies that have the potential to live on as a franchise.. that is how popular sitcoms last so long. We tune in to watch what we are accustomed to seeing and are involved in their story..Once all the newness wears off, it is ultimately the story we become enamored with..

I agree with you that keeping directors, writers, actors is necessary to the sustained health of the franchise, but keeping a movie too similar to its previous releases isn't a good thing. If TF 3 is too much like its predecessors, people are going to keep their $11.00 and not go to the movies. Look at the Police Academy or Robocop series (to name a few) and they pretty much fizzled out because they played it too safe and didn't change very much. They became stagnant, boring and they withered away. It's a tough balance keeping a franchise fresh enough so people will want to see it yet keeping it familiar enough so viewers can relate with what had previously happened.

skywarp-2 wrote:Well, if my little article was off base on anything I do apologize. This is just my opinion of the series, and what has come before. I may be in error on some things, but the bottom line of what I believe is this...Transformers 3 the Live action movie has potential, the franchise has the potential to succeed to 6 films. But with how Hollywood and it's "idea" machines work sometimes, that potential is wasted..My great hope is that Orci, Kurtzman, Bay, Spielberg, Paramount, and Hasbro have all learned from the history of the past movie franchises, and can move forward to make this series what it potentially may become, a great long lasting sci-fi ride into the world of the transformers!

I do agree that the franchise has the potential to succeed to 6 films, I would rather have the loose ends from the first two movies tied up in the next movie rather than stretched out to six movies. Unless they decide to shoot the movies a la Lord of the Rings style (shoot all four movies at once and then edit and release them every year or so). I don't think that the general audience has the patience nor the recollection to be able to remember what had happened in the past and what is going on in movie 5 for example. Generally speaking, trilogies seem to be the defacto in Hollywood and I think that the story from the first two movies can be neatly wrapped up and have some new arcs introduced to get TF4 rolling.

Here's how they could go about with TF 3 and wrap up the loose ends. The Autobots and humans salvage the sun eater thingie in the pyramid and restore it and help the Autobots construct a starship so they can leave Earth and head back to Cybertron where they can find a star in an uninhabited solar system they can use to revitalize and restore their war ravaged planet. A few Autobots remain on earth to create a space bridge door/portal on Earth. The Dcons are in hiding to make the Autobots think they have eliminated them from the planet and are aware of Prime's plans. They want to recover the machine and use it to reformat Cybertron into a war planet, or for power, or whatever. A small group of humans goes with the Autobots into space; Sam is with them because he has residual powers from the Allspark and the Matrix of Leadership that is needed to restore the planet. The Autobots blast off of Earth, and the Dcons, who built their own ship, follow them leading to the final confrontation between Megatron and Prime on Cybertron. Autobots win and activate the space bridge so they can travel between Earth and Cybertron very quickly. So the first 1/4 of the movie is on Earth, next 1/4 is in space, and the final 1/2 is on Cybertron with flashbacks and history lessions interspersed throughout the space and first 1/4 of Cybertron portions of the film. With the movie done like this, you can limit the amount of human interaction and get more into the Transformer back story, it pretty much wraps up most of the loose ends from the previous two stories and leaves the door open for new stories and future movies.

Another reason I'm for the trilogy idea is incase the writers/actors/producers end up quitting; or tire of writing/acting/working on the movie; (God forbid) die; etc the story arc is wrapped up and we don't end up with the Batman Forever equivalent of Transformers (unless this happens before TF3 is written of course...). If kept in trilogy form, I can see the franchise possibly hit nine releases and be like some of the strongest franchises out there like Star Trek or James Bond.

whatever the case, i just want part 3 to be good.... so we can forget about rotf

As a fan of Transformers and other properties that have branched out to film adaptation, I want first and foremost a good story. Many other things fall into place when a good story is at its core. TF3 and beyond should have good stories at the very least, ehanced by good action and pacing.