The Energon Pub

Let's drop this back and forth before I start throwing more warnings.

Ok, i concede i may have taken some of the comments personally, i apologise to anyone i offended. I have some advice for you all, don't come on here after you've been the pub. Peace....

Ultimately as much as fan wanna hang Bay out to dry, we'd have nothing complain about even if he didn't do what he did. This was a new begining for transformers, and it's more popular now than it's ever been. Now that it's once again proving it's the money maker it is, projects besides Bay's will turn up.

Such as War for Cybertron. This is a direct result of transformers popularity picking back up. We aren't just getting a movie or cartoon tie in. Which tie ins suck because they re a video game conforming to a movie story line, which movies rarely have enough content to make a good game. Why they usually end up having crowbar in tons of other scenes and villains that weren't in the film. It's a bad starting point for a video game alot of times. Now we have a game being make simply for purpose of creating a kick ass transformers game.

More stuff like this is going keep happening. Even if transformers fans cry foul, we've seen this all before. Stuff was different, oh no. Beast wars had people crying and moaning too simply for being different. I'm not saying Bay project doesn't have it's share of flaws, oh it does. But expecting a love letter to G1 is not going happen.

Seriously go rewatch G1(the DVDs are out, and if you feel you need G1 skins, they have them in the ROTF video game heh.), it had plenty of flaws in it that people complain about if a movie directly followed it, though ironically Changing Gears is almost same plot as ROTF. In general G1 plot were always about Megatron and the Decepticons doing something awful to the planet in order harvest energon.

As for real transformers, I consider beast wars and animated every bit as vital to franchise as G1 as all them have contributed something cool.

Lastly for all that is holy, don't put Unicron in this next film. He's a lame villain and not something the heroes even get to fight. Only thing that ever happens is he gets plot deviced to death. I like bad guys the heroes can blow the face off themselves, or atleast scrap it out with. Trypticon, Tidal Wave or Menasor(bring on the stunticons baby, Silverbolt is coming and needs his rivals) interest me far more than Unicron.

SlyTF1 wrote:

omega666 wrote:ROTF was just awesome. If this one is better it's because it's without those two canon destroying writers. I am glad they are gone.

You can't get more true than this.

Lastjustice wrote: Seriously go rewatch G1(the DVDs are out, and if you feel you need G1 skins, they have them in the ROTF video game heh.), it had plenty of flaws in it that people complain about if a movie directly followed it, though ironically Changing Gears is almost same plot as ROTF. In general G1 plot were always about Megatron and the Decepticons doing something awful to the planet in order harvest energon.

This is my pet peeve right there. A lot of complaining came from the plotholes and such, but when I saw the 2007 movie, the plot never bothered me one bit. It's a pimped-out saturdaymorning plot and nothing more. ROTF did the same thing more or less... Albeit a bit too gimmicky (plot-device overkill).
Neither of these movies are any less then any G1 episode plotwise. Maybe it's the expectation of something beter that killed it for a lot of people.

Watch Batman-brave and the bold, then go watch Dark Knight. Cartoons recruit the next generation of fans, the movies should give the older generation of fans a more satisfying experience than ROTF did.

It is truly amazing how these debates over the TF movieverse. flame up. It is a tremendous waste of time for every party involved, and it always ends up with someone losing an eye............or at least getting in trouble on the board. And the number of goofballs will increase as we get closer to the release date of the movie. I enjoyed the 1st and 2nd movies, and guarantee that I will enjoy the 3rd movie. Is the movieverse perfect? Hell no. Is it still fun? Hell yes it is. I'm not expecting this to be a Shakespear adaptation. It's transforming robots for crying out loud. Some of the people who are griping, and will soon start to gripe, need to get a little more realistic with the expectations.

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Watch Batman-brave and the bold, then go watch Dark Knight. Cartoons recruit the next generation of fans, the movies should give the older generation of fans a more satisfying experience than ROTF did.

Question: Are you saying that TDK was a satisfying experience?

Prime Riblet wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Watch Batman-brave and the bold, then go watch Dark Knight. Cartoons recruit the next generation of fans, the movies should give the older generation of fans a more satisfying experience than ROTF did.

Question: Are you saying that TDK was a satisfying experience?

I'd say the Nolan movies have plenty of dense moments in them. From the machine that magically only evaporated water but doesn't effect humans who are 70% water, yet can instantly turn water below the street into stream in a matter of secs. To Joker being tossed into a cell with only a lone cop keeping him there. (which he manages take down despite just being manhandled by batman.) Then his men manage somehow get explosives on to two boats full of big drums past the national guard twice. Also they somehow were able to call the exact street and altitude a helicopter was going fly down with a cable and bring it down, I guess the joker is freaking clarvoyent. (I'm sure I can think of more, but that's plenty.)

All this was pretty hard to swallow. Movies aren't usually air tight though, they simply meant to entertain us.

Lastjustice wrote:

Prime Riblet wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Watch Batman-brave and the bold, then go watch Dark Knight. Cartoons recruit the next generation of fans, the movies should give the older generation of fans a more satisfying experience than ROTF did.

Question: Are you saying that TDK was a satisfying experience?

I'd say the Nolan movies have plenty of dense moments in them. From the machine that magically only evaporated water but doesn't effect humans who are 70% water, yet can instantly turn water below the street into stream in a matter of secs. To Joker being tossed into a cell with only a lone cop keeping him there. (which he manages take down despite just being manhandled by batman.) Then his men manage somehow get explosives on to two boats full of big drums past the national guard twice. Also they somehow were able to call the exact street and altitude a helicopter was going fly down with a cable and bring it down, I guess the joker is freaking clarvoyent. (I'm sure I can think of more, but that's plenty.)

All this was pretty hard to swallow. Movies aren't usually air tight though, they simply meant to entertain us.

Exactly! You explain my thought well!

I can't say that TDK was a bad flick, but it was nothing any more special than any other action flick. People just act like RoTF was the only film in history with a plot hole.

Exactly! You explain my thought well!

I can't say that TDK was a bad flick, but it was nothing any more special than any other action flick. People just act like RoTF was the only film in history with a plot hole.

Sure thing, I just usually get stoned to death when I'd bring up those things when the movie first came out. Now seems like the bat-hype simmered down and people are actually starting be willing have legit conversations and rate it a bit more fairly. It's not a bad film, but it really got highly overrated. (so did begins though when first came out.) I guess being better than the Schumucker films set the bar rather low.

Picking at The Dark Knight, which WAS and still is a satisfying experience, won't make ROTF look any better. For gods sake, ROTF was AWFUL. You want to defend it, thats fair enough, i just cant get into the coca-cola commercial style direction and the join the dots script, but each to his own.

Lastjustice wrote:

Prime Riblet wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Watch Batman-brave and the bold, then go watch Dark Knight. Cartoons recruit the next generation of fans, the movies should give the older generation of fans a more satisfying experience than ROTF did.

Question: Are you saying that TDK was a satisfying experience?

I'd say the Nolan movies have plenty of dense moments in them. From the machine that magically only evaporated water but doesn't effect humans who are 70% water, yet can instantly turn water below the street into stream in a matter of secs. To Joker being tossed into a cell with only a lone cop keeping him there. (which he manages take down despite just being manhandled by batman.) Then his men manage somehow get explosives on to two boats full of big drums past the national guard twice. Also they somehow were able to call the exact street and altitude a helicopter was going fly down with a cable and bring it down, I guess the joker is freaking clarvoyent. (I'm sure I can think of more, but that's plenty.)

All this was pretty hard to swallow. Movies aren't usually air tight though, they simply meant to entertain us.

I was asking myself these throughout the movie! How in the name of ass can one man in a clown suit not stand out so much, to set up all that crap?

It's called a movie. You sit back and relax, and enjoy. You don't criticize what's going on. TDK was amazing for what it did. ROTF in it's own right.

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Picking at The Dark Knight, which WAS and still is a satisfying experience, won't make ROTF look any better. For gods sake, ROTF was AWFUL. You want to defend it, thats fair enough, i just cant get into the coca-cola commercial style direction and the join the dots script, but each to his own.

You offer a lot of OPINIONS with very little FACT. Your views on both movies are OPINIONS! Do you not grasp this concept? Opinions do not equal facts no matter how hard you want to try to make it that way.

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Picking at The Dark Knight, which WAS and still is a satisfying experience, won't make ROTF look any better. For gods sake, ROTF was AWFUL. You want to defend it, that's fair enough, i just cant get into the coca-cola commercial style direction and the join the dots script, but each to his own.

Man, I went easy on it, I have full blown rants tearing the Dark Knight a complete new one. You know there's no defense for all dumb crap in The Dark knight. You basically cop out and give me a nice lil fanboyish reply, and no it sucks. Anyone can say thumbs up or down, with out any supportive for it's as meaningless as me saying no way it was good. Honestly your posts probably aren't worth me going all out like this, but I like make my point in a rather large grandiose way, call it my inner Doctor Doom. If I do it, I do it big heh!

As a comic fan/superhero fan, I honestly despise the Dark knight when people prop it up as being the end all of movies especially comic movies. It truthfully has very little super hero or comic elements to it. As people said before, it's basically the movie Heat with a couple characters in costumes. It's like calling a car an American made vehicle because a few bolts in it were made in Texas. It's a drama/thriller wrapped in a thin coating of comic stylings, and 31 layers of pretentiousness . (Hence why people like Roger Ebert can get behind it because was snobbish enough to suit their tastes. Like wrapping a Big mac in 100 dollar bills and serving it on a silver platter somehow makes it sophisticated to eat.)It tries make several points the Watchmen does far better, and is rather lifeless and mechanical while it does it.

"Why so serious?" Someone should ask Nolan that. Despite having a character named the Joker in it, he's not remotely funny or interesting for most part. He's just a thug dressed like the Joker. He has absolutely no charisma, yet everyone just seems follow him.(which his men allow him to burn a mountain of money and don't just shoot him and take it for themselves, despite tripping over each other for peanuts at the beginning of the film.) None of the elements of being the Joker were really there at all. Like his first act of terrorism was to pour a industrial vat of fail into the Chicago...I mean Gotham river since everyone just jobs to him as he has entirely too much plot convenience on his side the whole film.

I'm not saying that it needed be a campfest like the Joel Schumucker films, but I felt the Burton films got waaay closer being a true Batman film than Nolan does. It might be a watchable film, but as a super hero or a batman film it falls flat on its face.(which by far best Portrayal of all time of Batman and Joker the animated series of the 90s by Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill.)

Batman is horribly portrayed in these films.(while there's a few minor things I liked such as his martial arts training streamlined on a sole style that fits his role, than 127 styles he's supposedly a master of in the comics, which is freaking stupid whoever wrote that. There isn't enough time in the day master all that.) As Bruce Wayne, he's completely obnoxious, and unlikeable.(makes you wonder why Rachel was ever his friend in the first place.) As Batman he roars like he's got a sore throat. Bale himself doesn't seem even get the character as he thinks Batman is all about Anger. Batman isn't about that at all, he's about redemption, and stopping from whatever happened to him from happening to someone else.

At night he's trying catch the guy who killed his parents, as inside he's never gotten over that. When they made Joel Chill a character who was openly known to be his parents killed and was murdered. (which Bruce tried do before he ever became batman.) they effectively crapped all over his character. Once Joe Chill was dead, Bruce really has no motivate to do anything with his life.(in the Burton film, they messed up a bit making Joker his parents killer, but that didn't get revealed till he was already long set in his ways, versus Nolan killer is both revealed and killed before he ever became batman or even tried train for it.) He has no link to anything, so he just became batman because the movie said so at this point. There's really no reason for him not spend the rest of his days a chemically dependent loser who lives off his inheritance as seemed be the direction his character was headed for.

You have people running around dressed up in funny outfits beating up each. No matter how many needlessly long winded speeches you toss in the movie, it's still that at the core, and you should have some fun with the movie. Ironman actually does this. Everything Tony Stark stark is a person, and a very flawed one that is easy to grasp. But he has fun with who he is, but has some serious points too.

Revenge of the fallen is similar in that regard. It keeps a happy mix of serious and lighthearted moments.Which the original transformers, and just about every series between has done. Sure some of it's humor failed, or was a bit more vulgar than Id preferred (as an uncle with two kiddos who came along.) but I forgave it for it. It's heart was in the right place, it just didn't all come out right. it wasn't trying be Citizen Kane with giant transforming robots. It was a summer blockbuster which stuff blows up in, as a transformers movie should be.

I'm not saying they can't stand go and beef up the story side a bit, and flesh out some characters better, they absolutely could. (and give a roll call for all bad guys so people know who and what they are before they're blown to pieces like in the first film. I don't care if they die in 30 secs, let us atleast get a name.)

Sexfighter (which I'd ditch that handle name, it's lame, regardless if I like your posts or not.) you seems absolutely hate the new transformers movies. Fine, we get it. If you hate it so much why are spending so much energy on it? There will eventually be some new line of transformers complain about not being G1 too. Plus I'm sure the Dark Knight forums somewhere could use another fan.

More fun to poke at the Dark Knight!

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yv8aT0UFc Joker jail scene spoof

- Dark Knight meets superman 1 and 2
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FywMOuMqNuI
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeT1t0lQn5Q

Wow...long speech...but very good points.
On a completely unrelated note, once I saw someone's sig here with Batman fighting a Shark I knew he was awesome.

Now on-topic....sorta I guess, this whole "core mythology" well I'm relatively new to TransFormers(sorta) so...what mythology are they referring to? Unicron? Something else I can't remember?

I still don't get why(besides the vulgarness and Leo) hated Revenge of The Fallen....when you get down to it...there isn't all that much to hate...unless you count Leo...then there's quite a bit to hate....

Yeah Geewun has Batman with the shark attacking him in his sign from the old Adam West batman movie. I saw him posting with that in other threads. (such as the Megaman 10 thread I started.)

I personally didn't hate any characters from the new transformers movies, human or otherwise. While i think Mudflap should have died to Devastator, as to give some character growth to Skidz, as his brother told him he had be more serious in combat in the beginning of the film, and could been a reason for his character to grow up then. Plus Devastator should killed something. The twins were perfectly acceptable fodder for most fans heh. (Heck I wish one of them was in first film to kill instead of Jazz.) I was ok with them surviving though, as I couldn't hate them after they showed they had heart fighting Devastator. But I'd been just as ok with one or both of them dead too hehe.

I like my name, remember your 'why so serious' quote?...dear me. Look, don't attack ME, I attacked your movie, as is my right, because i thought it was moronic, and should have been better. Im not gonna sit here and pick holes in.....no, That would be rude. You made a good point about Nolan taking it LESS serious, i'd go with that to a degree, and Burtons vision was closer to the mythology. However, Batman Returns went a bit pearshaped for me. Nolans doing well, Bay aint in the same league, hes a bit of a laughing stock round Hollywood, you MUST be aware of this.??? I want Transformers 3 to be brilliant, im just not expecting anything near that. If im wrong, i'll change my name just for you.

[quote=

I personally didn't hate any characters from the new transformers movies, human or otherwise. While i think Mudflap should have died to Devastator, as to give some character growth to Skidz, as his brother told him he had be more serious in combat in the beginning of the film, and could been a reason for his character to grow up then.[/quote]
Dear me my friend, they were embarressing.

Dude, you've been warned once about trolling and baiting. You really want that second warning?

Yes, you don't like ROTF, we get that. But if you want people to respect your opinion then you need to start bringing in some legitimate arguments to it instead of simply refuting things and using childish insults to take potshots at the movie.

Burn wrote:Yes, you don't like ROTF, we get that. But if you want people to respect your opinion then you need to start bringing in some legitimate arguments to it instead of simply refuting things and using childish insults to take potshots at the movie.

This pretty much what I'd reply. I don't have a problem with discussing flaws of something. I rip apart stuff I love all the time. It's what I do. I just have to accept what are realistic complaints to even warrant being mad about. Just prove I'm not some sort of fanboy, I'll do your job for you sexfighter to show you how it's done.

- Transformers (2007)
- Too much humans, not enough bot time.
- Really short fights that often got interrupted or cut away to humans doing something else.
- Barracade's fate was never resolved.
- Brawl name being messed up.
- Jazz being killed, they should really bought a more expendable character in or gave him some better fights before he bought the farm. (I'd love for him to fought and defeated Starscream like he does in the game. Then have Megatron kill him after he has the upperhand over Screamer. A nice battle of the first officers then.)
- Several poor plans that were used thru out the film. The kids wasting time to tie up sector 7 after dismantling their vehicles, Prime not carrying with Sam and Miekala instead of driving them. Prime allowing bumble bee be simply taken away instead of tailing him for leads. The autobots and the army just sitting out in the open while the decepticons come after them, instead of taking cover in a near by warehouse or something and actually thinking a helicopter could get the all spark safely away. Prime wanting use the All spark on himself which would leave Megatron alive. Sam using the All Spark on Megatron instead of just running while the jets continued to bomb the daylights out of Megatron.


- Revenge of the Fallen
- Not giving any identification to the majority of the Decepticons. They came and went with little attachment.
- Not making it more clear that Ironhide was one who defeated Demolisher during the opening fight. Prime slowed him down while Ironhide blew out his tire, but all happened so fast was hard tell how it went down the first time I watched it.
- Not giving better fights to more characters. Lots of wasted potential since some either died too quickly, or barely were used such as Sideswipe. (he atleast got to kill Sideways heh.) Bumble bee and Prime got their due, but the rest needed some love.
- Not having Arcee And Miekala team up, again wasted potential. I was waiting for her reverse her line from the first film, you drive while I shoot.
- Devastator only fighting the twins, and then digging. He should attacked the city Sam was taking cover in to force him out. having several Autobots fight him and defeat him would been much more exciting than more armed force tactical strikes. I don't mind the military being in the film, but their kill count got a bit high compared to the autobots being used.
- Having the Fallen active early on in the film. This made Megatron look bad, and it all seemed out of place. He really should been buried somewhere and been communicating with megatron and Starscream through holograms(or to Soundwave, as they could had him searching for the fallen as his reason for being in space.)The Fallen role and powers should been explained abit better, as you can draw several sound reasons why only a prime can defeat him. Just they should given a clear cut answer for those who didn't come to them.
- A bit too much vulgar and lowbrow humor. Hopefully they clean it up next time. I could forgive the Sam's happy time comment as it was a single throw away comment in the first film. (which thankfully my niece and nephew never asked me to field heh. I was dreading Uncle Mike, whats that mean after the film.)
- Odd changing of day times and surroundings. You see shots radically change like Simpsons geography. (in the Simpsons movie Nevada and Alaska were neighboring states to Springfield.)I accept the notion being an alternate earth some stuff might be in different spots than our earth, but atleast cover your tracks better about it. During the final battle, Sam and the armed forces show up in the morning from the tomb of the primes. By time the fighting was ending, the sun was going down, are they suggesting it took Sam all day get from the tomb of the primes to Optimus and the fighting went that long? (sunrise to sun set easily is 12 hours or more.)
- For being best protected Naval base, the allspark was stolen rather easily. I'd liked it better if some besides ravage was enough to break in for boasting such a thing.
- The Decepticons killing one of their own when there should likely been tons of parts form their other fallen comrades near by. While it did showcase just how their the strongest survive mentality was and over all ruthlessness,I suppose was real point of them doing it.I'd personally like the idea of brawls parts being used. It would have explained the treads.
- Some better explanation to how cover up went down between the first film and the second. I understand there was a whole communication black out during that time. But some people didn't recall that fact. It didn't have be long, just some quick throw away comment while NEST team was getting ready kick butt in the beginning. "Good this is clear, I'm glad we don't have lockdown all witnesses like we did in mission city after the battle during the 2 week communication blackout."


- The final complaint about both films. More, I want more transformers. I accept Hollywood can't afford make the movie in my head, but I still would like something closer if possible. But long as they leave me wanting more I will keep following it. Ultimately I'm still happy as I've watched both films more than enough. (first movie probably about a dozen times, and Rotf likely 5-7. Certain clips I've watched dozens of times though like the fights on youtube while waiting for the DVD.)

I just don't rise to the bait any more Burn, but if you like ROTF its ok to bait, i get it. Anw way,

Transformers 2007- Wasnt perfect, but set up, potentially, a decent franchise. I didnt like the designs on the Cons, too radical, the direction was too workman like but, as i said, i expected a more for the sequel...

ROTF-2009- Dear me, where to start...
1- the dialogue, just...awful, dear me. Riblets right about the smutty jokes, tacky and unfunny.
2- the 1st scene where Prime and a gang of soldiers are hunting down a Con in Japan(??) i think, Primes voice over just ruined it, the Bots seemingly having integrated into Earths defence forces a little quickly and too easily. It seemed messy from the off.
3.Why were the Fallens brothers all identical? Bit lazy to say the least.
4. Every soldier in the defence force, acting hard, lookin sexy, walkin tough toward the camera in slow motion, would have laughed, but id paid for this.... dear me.
5. Riblet wants more Bot time. Im with him on this, im not interested in the one dimensional GI joe wanna-be's...they bore me. The transformers, we want the camera to stay on them.
6.Sams parents, what the hell do they need to be in it so much for..and so badly done too? Shocking.
7.Didnt like Devasator, looked like Brundle-fly, very scrappy. Maybe they'll get the special teams more streamlined, (and NO, that doesn't mean i want a direct G1 homage, Prime was done ok.) You want bulky and outta proportion, then you've got an Omega Supreme.
8.Tuturro's playin it too campy, the guys a class actor, hes just not takin the script too serious..and who can blame him.
9.If the simple dialogue is to keep the kids attention, why is Megan Fox always bending over?? For the kids?? Think not,very cheap Mr Bay, if i wanna look at pretty ladies in blatantly provocotive positions, i'll do it elsewhere
Thats it for now

SEXFIGHTER wrote:Im saying IIIIFFFF you liked it, thats your agenda, im not interested cobber. Im not baiting here, im being attacked for standing up for RRREEEEAAALLL transformers. For gods sake, i LOVE TRANSFORMERS a LOT more than the average Lady Ga Ga fan....

That's a big lie right there.

I'm the average Lady Gaga fan. Look at my collection, I'm ballin' outrageous.

Anyway, your arguments are boring and you are baiting. That's ok though. I've seen baiting and you Sir, are no Alvin Prime.

Last thing...not trying to sound mean but...

3.Why were the Fallens brothers all identical? Bit lazy to say the least.

Doesn't that sorta answer itself? They weren't identical anyways...

And still...uh does anyone have any idea what core mythology they mean?
What is this "core mythology" anyways?