Cheesinator wrote:Arrival To Earth and Unicron themes will be very cool to hear! I was hoping for the original Bayverse Decepticon theme as well, but see how this wouldn't be the movie for that (if they are indeed ever bringing it back).noctorro wrote:Now being realistic, I heard from a couple of directions that the movie has that thick modern layer of wokeness. People aren't eating that anymore and there is already a shift back to normal/good. But since delays that virus could still be in this movie.
Tbh I've seen a lot of, uh, interesting takes on this topic but this is the first time I've seen inclusion of non-white people in a movie as being a virus.
Kinda jarring to see hateful rhetoric like that in a forum about transforming robots, but oh well.
-Kanrabat- wrote:TF-fan kev777 wrote:First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.
Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...
Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
First-Aid wrote:Cheesinator wrote:noctorro wrote:Now being realistic, I heard from a couple of directions that the movie has that thick modern layer of wokeness. People aren't eating that anymore and there is already a shift back to normal/good. But since delays that virus could still be in this movie.
Tbh I've seen a lot of, uh, interesting takes on this topic but this is the first time I've seen inclusion of non-white people in a movie as being a virus.
Kinda jarring to see hateful rhetoric like that in a forum about transforming robots, but oh well.
He worded it horribly but I suspect what he means is that the stereotypical "Wokeness" is significant enough that it becomes the story. Nothing wrong with equality, race,, etc. Honestly, I'm not homophobic, racist, etc, I just don't care about it UNLESS it overrides the story. I think his worry is that race will BECOME the story and not the Transformers. It could be an element, but it shouldn't BE the story. Culture/race/etc could be the backdrop/setting, but in the case of ROTB it shouldn't overshadow the fact that there are giant f--king robots trying to blow the snot out of each other.
Hopefully I'm wording it better and it makes more sense. Please let me know if I'm not. It's really hard to explain this...it's like walking on eggshells. And I'm generally pretty crappy at explaining things that aren't related to medicine...
Cheesinator wrote:First-Aid wrote:Cheesinator wrote:noctorro wrote:Now being realistic, I heard from a couple of directions that the movie has that thick modern layer of wokeness. People aren't eating that anymore and there is already a shift back to normal/good. But since delays that virus could still be in this movie.
Tbh I've seen a lot of, uh, interesting takes on this topic but this is the first time I've seen inclusion of non-white people in a movie as being a virus.
Kinda jarring to see hateful rhetoric like that in a forum about transforming robots, but oh well.
He worded it horribly but I suspect what he means is that the stereotypical "Wokeness" is significant enough that it becomes the story. Nothing wrong with equality, race,, etc. Honestly, I'm not homophobic, racist, etc, I just don't care about it UNLESS it overrides the story. I think his worry is that race will BECOME the story and not the Transformers. It could be an element, but it shouldn't BE the story. Culture/race/etc could be the backdrop/setting, but in the case of ROTB it shouldn't overshadow the fact that there are giant f--king robots trying to blow the snot out of each other.
Hopefully I'm wording it better and it makes more sense. Please let me know if I'm not. It's really hard to explain this...it's like walking on eggshells. And I'm generally pretty crappy at explaining things that aren't related to medicine...
That does make more sense, but (unless I'm misunderstanding) I don't get how the issue could be wokeness itself, rather than the same issue *every* live action Transformers movies has had wherein the humans take up the bulk of the screentime and provide the skeleton of the story that the Transformer-related setpieces are placed around.
Whether it's LeBouf fumbling through his romances and quirky family, Wahlberg dysfunction with his daughter or being an Arthurian knight or something (I barely paid attention to TLK), or Hailee Steinfeld dealing with the loss of her dad...the core story of the movies has always heavily involved humans and their drama, with the big robot fights being almost totally unrelated. So it seems a bit odd if someone only has a major issue with that now when the only difference seems to be that the human drama is about race (and as far as we know, that isn't even the case in ROTB; we just know the main characters are nonwhite and will do nonwhite things).
(All that said, I'd also prefer human action is kept to a minimum if it means more robot interactions)
-Kanrabat- wrote:TF-fan kev777 wrote:First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.
Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...
Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
First-Aid wrote:He worded it horribly but I suspect what he means is that the stereotypical "Wokeness" is significant enough that it becomes the story.
william-james88 wrote:The only thing "woke" about the film is that this time it stars black and latino people as the main human characters, rather than white ones. We will see their struggles, just as we saw the struggles of past white protagonists.
-Kanrabat- wrote:TF-fan kev777 wrote:First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.
Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...
Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
Kamijou Touma wrote:The music of the TF live action movies makes me appreciate the 86 movie music all the more. The music is just awful.
william-james88 wrote:First-Aid wrote:He worded it horribly but I suspect what he means is that the stereotypical "Wokeness" is significant enough that it becomes the story.
The only thing "woke" about the film is that this time it stars black and latino people as the main human characters, rather than white ones. We will see their struggles, just as we saw the struggles of past white protagonists. If that's enough to be considered woke than that tells me that the word "woke" has lost all meaning.
Cheesinator wrote: We know so little about the human plot at the moment, that anyone using 'woke' as a serious criticism is exposing themselves pretty blatantly.
-Kanrabat- wrote:TF-fan kev777 wrote:First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.
Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...
Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
First-Aid wrote:Cheesinator wrote: We know so little about the human plot at the moment, that anyone using 'woke' as a serious criticism is exposing themselves pretty blatantly.
Not necessarily. Many people are dealing with a perceived overdose of it right now. It could be paranoia that it's going to affect the plot. It may simply be paranoia. I freely admit though that at some point TV and movies became more about "teaching lessons" on things that most people already know than about the escape from reality or the art; it detracts from the fun of the movie/show.
Burn wrote:I honestly don't get why having people of different ethnicities in leading roles = wokeness. It's just plain **** stupid.
It might be when the director himself stated that "this film will be for black and brown people." That's a quote from 1 of the early pages of this thread. As in, whites f**k off. At least he has the backbone to come out and say it outright that that's the agenda here. The music selection just solidifies it even more.Burn wrote:I honestly don't get why having people of different ethnicities in leading roles = wokeness. It's just plain **** stupid.
Rodimus Prime wrote:It might be when the director himself stated that "this film will be for black and brown people." That's a quote from 1 of the early pages of this thread. As in, whites f**k off. At least he has the backbone to come out and say it outright that that's the agenda here. The music selection just solidifies it even more.
Previously I stated that the Transformers story itself might suffer for it (much like it did in previous films), but with all the details released already, the movie might be worth a watch on streaming sometime.
-Kanrabat- wrote:Burn wrote:I honestly don't get why having people of different ethnicities in leading roles = wokeness. It's just plain **** stupid.
The "wokeness" is turning this into something "extraordinary", "groundbreaking", "so stunning", "so brave", when it's none of the above.
The woke will go full "LOOK, LOOK, I CAST COLORED PEOPLE IN MY THING!" with religious fervor.
-Kanrabat- wrote:TF-fan kev777 wrote:First-Aid wrote:Okay, did anyone else notice that we all get a wonderful shot of Starscreams crotch anytime he sits in that throne? That's unnerving. Couldn't they have put n extra flap in there? It's....weird.
Its kind of like Basic Instinct, but not in a good way...
Goddammit, now I can't unsee it.
Cheesinator wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:Burn wrote:I honestly don't get why having people of different ethnicities in leading roles = wokeness. It's just plain **** stupid.
The "wokeness" is turning this into something "extraordinary", "groundbreaking", "so stunning", "so brave", when it's none of the above.
The woke will go full "LOOK, LOOK, I CAST COLORED PEOPLE IN MY THING!" with religious fervor.
Oof, bringing religious fervor into it and saying that it's the woke side that are guilty of it. That seems very tone-deaf, especially these days.
Also, deeply ironic way of describing 'woke' when no one in this thread is saying anything about nonwhite people being cast in the movie as some great thing, but you and others apparently have some major issue with it. Like, why blame the (nonexistent in this thread) "woke people"? Just say what you really feel about the casting and be up front about it, at least.
It might as well be when a creator of the presentation at hand outright states that the setting and story is done specifically due to the involvement of those cultures.Cheesinator wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:It might be when the director himself stated that "this film will be for black and brown people." That's a quote from 1 of the early pages of this thread. As in, whites f**k off. At least he has the backbone to come out and say it outright that that's the agenda here. The music selection just solidifies it even more.
Previously I stated that the Transformers story itself might suffer for it (much like it did in previous films), but with all the details released already, the movie might be worth a watch on streaming sometime.
Simply portraying cultures of black and brown people is not really the same as "whites **** off". In the same way portraying white families (and their cultures) in the previous movies was not a "POC **** off".
Of course not. I enjoy a lot of movies and TV shows that have majority non-white casts. But when a story is done for the purpose of appealing only to a select segment of the population, at the expense of previously established stories and characters, that is wrong.Just to be clear, would you prefer that all films have only (or at least predominantly) white casts? And any deviance would be 'woke'?
First-Aid wrote:Cheesinator wrote: We know so little about the human plot at the moment, that anyone using 'woke' as a serious criticism is exposing themselves pretty blatantly.
Not necessarily. Many people are dealing with a perceived overdose of it right now. It could be paranoia that it's going to affect the plot. It may simply be paranoia. I freely admit though that at some point TV and movies became more about "teaching lessons" on things that most people already know than about the escape from reality or the art; it detracts from the fun of the movie/show.
Rodimus Prime wrote:It might as well be when a creator of the presentation at hand outright states that the setting and story is done specifically due to the involvement of those cultures.Cheesinator wrote:Rodimus Prime wrote:It might be when the director himself stated that "this film will be for black and brown people." That's a quote from 1 of the early pages of this thread. As in, whites f**k off. At least he has the backbone to come out and say it outright that that's the agenda here. The music selection just solidifies it even more.
Previously I stated that the Transformers story itself might suffer for it (much like it did in previous films), but with all the details released already, the movie might be worth a watch on streaming sometime.
Simply portraying cultures of black and brown people is not really the same as "whites **** off". In the same way portraying white families (and their cultures) in the previous movies was not a "POC **** off".Of course not. I enjoy a lot of movies and TV shows that have majority non-white casts. But when a story is done for the purpose of appealing only to a select segment of the population, at the expense of previously established stories and characters, that is wrong.Just to be clear, would you prefer that all films have only (or at least predominantly) white casts? And any deviance would be 'woke'?
-Kanrabat- wrote:
Have you read the interviews of that director?
He's race-baiting like there's no tomorrow. THAT'S "wokeness". The woke will defend any positions, as long that it follow the ALGORITHM of what is "virtuous" to say. It's a religion of chaos with ever changing rules.
The proof is if any woman speak against feminism, any gay person speak against the overreach of the LGBT "community", or any black people speak against race-grifting and/or the victimhood mentality, they all get "excommunicated" by their "friends".
It's very easy to call us "racist" or any "ism" when we disagree with your ideology. It's the same with a hardcore Christian who see the "devil" everywhere.
Dare to seek out more information about what you believe in. You'll see.
Or just stay as you are. The woke "goal posts" will move and suddenly, you'll "sin" by believing the same thing you always believed in. Then it will be your turn to be called a "ism" and you'll not even know why.
Cheesinator wrote:Look man, you hate wokeism and that's fine (or at least, has nothing to do with Transformers). As long as you're not hurting anyone, it's all good and there's really no need to unpack it here.
Until we know anything more about the movie other than 'the leads are nonwhite', this all seems a little unnecessary though.
I'll be annoyed too if the entire plot of the movie is about racial struggles between humans...but I really, really do not see Unicron and the Terrorcons factoring into that.
Because Michael Bay didn't come out and say "this movie will be for whites" before any of the movies he directed. Neither did Travis Knight before Bumblebee, which had a non-white main character as well. Steven Caple should have taken a clue from them and kept his racist trap shut.Cheesinator wrote:How is this gearing up to be any different to the predominantly white areas/casts we saw in previous films? ROTB is apparently gonna feature areas with different demographics. There are a lot of those in America (and the rest of the world).
I don't have the problem with the cast itself. My problem is with the reason for the casting, which the director himself admitted to. The actors are in it because they're minorities, not because they might be good actors. The human parts of the film are set in minority-dominated settings, not because Transformers might interact with them the same as other cultures, which is perfectly plausible, but because of the fact that they are minority-dominated settings. Do you understand the difference?I'll annoyed too if they do something weird and portray the whole country/planet as nonwhite, but showing a black kid have a black family and live in a predominantly black neighbourhood is really no different to anything we've seen before in Transformers. Except you guys had no issues with it then.
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