The Energon Pub

I finally got to see Megatron, Optimus Primal, and Cheetor, no Rattrap today at a local Walmart. I think for myself, it was cool to see Optimus Primal again, since i had the original back in the day. I didn’t purchase any of them but i know they may become scarce on the shelves so a second attempt to buy any of them might be a long shot. You never know though!

SGM

o.supreme wrote:So I finally saw Cheetor and Rattrap at walmart today. I had no intention of getting them, but it was just nice to see something, anything *new*.

Having seen them in person now, I have to ask, (Seinfeld voice) What's the deal with the overly large cards? (end Seinfeld voice).

I mean I've seen them on Toybiz reproductions of Marvel action figures, and the rerelease of The Real Ghostbusters vintage figures as well (not sure who makes those), and now BW. Also, while MOTU Origins gets it right on most of its action figures, I see battle-Armor He-Man & Skeletor have the overly large ones, and I can't for the life of me understand why. I mean if companies are trying to be environmentally friendly, one would think going with the original (smaller) cardback size would be best, and probably more aesthetically pleasing to adult collectors who want these.

I mean I know the reissues of Original Transformers figures at Walmart didn't mimic the OG packaging look 100%, but they got closer than I've seen on most other reissue lines. (With the exception of Prime without his trailer which wasn't a thing in 84-86)

Have there been comparisons with original cards?

I've been trying to find comparison pics online unsuccessfully. But I recall the cards for basic figures to be smaller, ( bigger than a current core, but smaller than deluxe), and the card Cheetos is on is way oversized, like the card they would have used for the original Gator/ Bat 2 pack.

If anyone can find a comparison, that would be awesome.

Picked up Rattrap today, he was the only Beast Wars reissue on the shelves. Funny seeing a Basic figure on a Deluxe card back, but they're selling him at the same price point as Cheetor so they must have wanted to make the cards match. Comparing old Cheetor packages with the reissue, just eyeballing it they appear to be identical sizes.




Emerje

Emerje wrote:Picked up Rattrap today, he was the only Beast Wars reissue on the shelves. Funny seeing a Basic figure on a Deluxe card back, but they're selling him at the same price point as Cheetor so they must have wanted to make the cards match. Comparing old Cheetor packages with the reissue, just eyeballing it they appear to be identical sizes.




Emerje

Rattrap's card back is smaller than Cheetor's.

Rattrap being a basic figure is on a card that is basically the equivalent of a modern day deluxe card (I strongly recall Basic figure cards were smaller in the original BW release), whereas Cheetor actually being a deluxe toy, has an overly large sized card compared with his original. At least that's how it felt when I saw them.

I mean they say, things that seem large when you are a kid usually get smaller the older you get, although I was already an adult when BW came out. This would be a case of the opposite though. I may be 100% wrong, however There is a retro toy store near me. If I can visit there over the weekend, hopefully they may have some original BW on card so I can get a comparison.

I do know for a fact though, that the retro ToyBiz Marvel action figures and Real Ghostbusters ones are on larger cards than they originally were in the late 80's/early 90's. Perhaps seeing them is tricking my brain on the BW ones somehow.

A rant:

Such a shame to see walmart mangle these boxes
The security lock seems kinda overboard..
I didn't want that figure anyway, but, even still.
I mean, it was the same cost as leader.. I have never seen them lock up a leader class figure...
Just, no

You must not have seen any of the pics I took of the reissue Optimus Prime a while back. THAT was a flipping joke with the security tags

william-james88 wrote:Rattrap's card back is smaller than Cheetor's.

Width, but what about height? That still seems wider than the original.




The reissue looks a lot smaller on the card and in the bubble than the original.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:

william-james88 wrote:Rattrap's card back is smaller than Cheetor's.

Width, but what about height? That still seems wider than the original.




The reissue looks a lot smaller on the card and in the bubble than the original.

Emerje

I simply pointed out that Rattrap and Cheetor were not on cards of the same dimensions qhich is what was implied in your post (or at least read that way). I do think it looks bigger than the original.

I've only seen Rattrap in person so I was just assuming they were the exact same sized cards since I thought they were packed in the same case. I don't have my original cards handy (buried in the closet or out in storage) so I can't say if they match or not. You'd think someone by now would have compared the old and new backers. Maybe there's no point because they're no different? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Emerje

Emerje wrote:I've only seen Rattrap in person so I was just assuming they were the exact same sized cards since I thought they were packed in the same case. I don't have my original cards handy (buried in the closet or out in storage) so I can't say if they match or not. You'd think someone by now would have compared the old and new backers. Maybe there's no point because they're no different? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Emerje

Or most didn't bother keeping them back in '96?

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

Emerje wrote:I've only seen Rattrap in person so I was just assuming they were the exact same sized cards since I thought they were packed in the same case. I don't have my original cards handy (buried in the closet or out in storage) so I can't say if they match or not. You'd think someone by now would have compared the old and new backers. Maybe there's no point because they're no different? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Emerje

Or most didn't bother keeping them back in '96?

Maybe I'm expecting too much for there to be MOC collectors out there that also bought these.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

Emerje wrote:I've only seen Rattrap in person so I was just assuming they were the exact same sized cards since I thought they were packed in the same case. I don't have my original cards handy (buried in the closet or out in storage) so I can't say if they match or not. You'd think someone by now would have compared the old and new backers. Maybe there's no point because they're no different? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Emerje

Or most didn't bother keeping them back in '96?

Maybe I'm expecting too much for there to be MOC collectors out there that also bought these.

Emerje

I still have a MOC Walmart Transmetal Rattrap and Tripredacus Agent. I also still have Mutant Beast Wars Icebird's opened packaging, and BotCon 1999 Windrazor's opened packaging.

The Rattrap I've had since its original release (well, actually, it was originally my brother's, but I inherited it from him. I had my own Walrat back then too, but opened it, and still have it).

Windrazor was purchased from eBay a few short years ago, while Tripredacus Agent and Icebird were both purchased at RoboCon 2019. The seller had other MOC Beast Wars toys.

Sabrblade wrote:I still have a MOC Walmart Transmetal Rattrap and Tripredacus Agent.

Cool. Since those 2 are deluxe on card, can you by chance compare them to the recent Cheetor Reissue to confirm if the Cheetor card is in fact bigger? Or even if you could provide the dimensions of any original BW deluxe card? Then next time I or anybody else here sees the new Cheetor's at Walmart we can compare.

o.supreme wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I still have a MOC Walmart Transmetal Rattrap and Tripredacus Agent.

Cool. Since those 2 are deluxe on card, can you by chance compare them to the recent Cheetor Reissue to confirm if the Cheetor card is in fact bigger?

I would if my Walmarts would actually carry them. Either their shelves are empty or they still have some Retro Headmasters taking up that space.

o.supreme wrote:Or even if you could provide the dimensions of any original BW deluxe card? Then next time I or anybody else here sees the new Cheetor's at Walmart we can compare.

I just measured the cardbacks for both Tripredacus Agent and Icebird. Both are Deluxe cardbacks that are just a smidge shorter than 12 inches tall and just under 8 1/2 inches wide.

Though, keep in mind that they use the 1999-2000 style packaging for Transmetal 2s and Fox Kids redecos, which may possibly differ from the dimensions of the 1996 Deluxe cardbacks.

Still waiting to see those guys, I hope to actually see them in store and pick one up

Sabrblade wrote:I just measured the cardbacks for both Tripredacus Agent and Icebird. Both are Deluxe cardbacks that are just a smidge shorter than 12 inches tall and just under 8 1/2 inches wide.

Though, keep in mind that they use the 1999-2000 style packaging for Transmetal 2s and Fox Kids redecos, which may possibly differ from the dimensions of the 1996 Deluxe cardbacks.

Well I am shocked. I measured reissue Cheetor today at Walmart and it is the same (just under 12 inches tall by 8 1/2 inches wide) I could have sworn the cardbacks for deluxes were smaller back then...especially since I worked at retail and saw all of them come case fresh from 1996-1998. I am pretty sure they were all the same size even the latter Fox Kids releases. So I was wrong.

Basic Rattrap is the same height (just under 12 inches), but only 7 inches wide. *If someone has an old school basic card they can measure for comparison?

Also just for grins, though I'm not contesting it, The Supreme Boxes were 9 1/2 inches tall by 11 wide (forgot to get the depth )

o.supreme wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I just measured the cardbacks for both Tripredacus Agent and Icebird. Both are Deluxe cardbacks that are just a smidge shorter than 12 inches tall and just under 8 1/2 inches wide.

Though, keep in mind that they use the 1999-2000 style packaging for Transmetal 2s and Fox Kids redecos, which may possibly differ from the dimensions of the 1996 Deluxe cardbacks.

Well I am shocked. I measured reissue Cheetor today at Walmart and it is the same (just under 12 inches tall by 8 1/2 inches wide) I could have sworn the cardbacks for deluxes were smaller back then...especially since I worked at retail and saw all of them come case fresh from 1996-1998. I am pretty sure they were all the same size even the latter Fox Kids releases. So I was wrong.

Basic Rattrap is the same height (just under 12 inches), but only 7 inches wide. *If someone has an old school basic card they can measure for comparison?

Also just for grins, though I'm not contesting it, The Supreme Boxes were 9 1/2 inches tall by 11 wide (forgot to get the depth )

For the record, Cheetor's card looked bigger to me too than what I remembered as a kid.

Family reunion at Walmart

So, I just checked my Walmart and all four of them were there. But, I won't be getting any of them since I already have the 10th Anniverary Optimus Primal and Megatron, the Telemocha Series Cheetor, and the 1997 show-accurate Takara redeco of Rattrap. But I sure was tempted.

Anyway, I examined the cardbacks for Cheetor and Rattrap, and for those who've been saying that they seem different from the originals, whether in size or whatnot, I do gotta agree. While the size of the cardbacks is unchanged, there is something that just feels... "off" about them.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I still have some vintage BW cardbacks from 1999-2000, so I have ready access to tangible cardbacks from back then. Compared to those, the cardboard of these reissues feels... not "thinner" per se but definitely more flimsy. While BW cardbacks could always bend somewhat, these ones for Cheetor and Rattrap feel very flexible, while my vintage ones feel stronger and studier after all these years.

Plus, I think I may have figured out what's creating the optical illusion of the cardbacks seeming bigger. It could be that the packaging bubbles (which house the figure) might be smaller. They don't look as wide as the ought to be, so if they are smaller, that would make the cardbacks look bigger.

Granted, I didn't have many pre-Transmetals figures back in the day, so I have very little experience with the Basic and Deluxe packaging of 1996-1997 that these reissues are trying to replicate.

So, according to this Tweet, Rattrap is apparently a brand new recreated mold and not the original pulled out of storage or something - https://twitter.com/BladeGnome/status/1449142151389061122

I got Rattrap from Pulse about a week ago. He's a fun little guy, only one I didn't own before, so the only one I bought.

Sabrblade wrote:So, according to this Tweet, Rattrap is apparently a brand new recreated mold and not the original pulled out of storage or something - https://twitter.com/BladeGnome/status/1449142151389061122

Really... The tooling may be lost, but they still had the Master copy handy?

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:So, according to this Tweet, Rattrap is apparently a brand new recreated mold and not the original pulled out of storage or something - https://twitter.com/BladeGnome/status/1449142151389061122

Really... The tooling may be lost, but they still had the Master copy handy?

I found this video to be very enlightening, and confirmed suspicions I had for a long time:



I also asked Scott to clarify, and he did. Basically ANY toy can be recreated if a company wants to spend the $$$. So all the talk about toys like Mirage, or the original Dinobots' Molds being lost/destroyed being the reason why it is impossible to get new commemorative toys of them is not actually true. There are enough samples in existence to use them to create a new Mold, it's just that Hasbro doesn't want to spend the money to do so, which is understandable.