Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:51 pm

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God damn it Lorenzo making this a prequel limits what stories can be told by a huge martian.

You can't have the mass populace finding out about the Transformers because they don't know till 2007 unless you pull off the whole Men In Black mind wipe scene (Or the military nukes the town or executes/silences civilian witnesses.) So that limits where the movie can take place and where the Transformers can be in robot mode.

You have to make Sector 7 the only actual military involved with the Transformers since the most of USA doesn't know anything in 2007 (I think the current President at the time knows about Sector 7 but not that they had Megatron if I remember the film correctly)

You can't have Megatron around on Earth at all which limits his presence to flashbacks and prequels on Cybertron because he's frozen since sometime before 1897 where he was first discovered by Sam's great grandfather and then at Sector 7's base in the 1930's at Hoover Dam (Which was created to keep the Allspark in the first place, and let me remind you that Shatter and Dropkick were inside the base and give full access to all of Sector 7's equipment, there is no logical reason why they did not find out about either the Allspark or Megatron, they were able to detect Bumblebee's signal from Saturn's moon so they must have some good scanners.)

You limit the fates of characters in the films and who can show up, you can't kill certain characters who appear in the other films and character development is wasted on them because they die off later with little characterization which will leave people unsatisfied or dread at the fact that say Jazz is going to die in the first Transformers film anyways so what's the point of giving him any role? Like no fan is going to get invested in them, Bay fan, G1 fan or otherwise.

Ah yeah at some point you need to "upgrade" the characters to Bayverse looks like Starscream has to stop being a Seeker and turn into a dorito at some point or Soundwave becoming vastly different and gaining a new voice.

You put someone new like Bludgeon on Earth and then you got to kill him off because he can't be around by 2007, can't bring in any tech like Space Bridges or Matrix because of the other films.

I'm starting to ramble but my god making this a prequel or at the very least not going into a new direction is absolutely idiotic.

Did The Last Knight not happen or something? Will nothing have been learned?
Last edited by Deadput on Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?

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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:52 pm

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
In all honesty, it doesn't really matter, but for the sake of *geek talk*, there are way to many inconsistencies in ALL the live action movies. I tried to squint and head-canon things for myself, but once I saw the TLK, the damage to the continuity was pretty much irreparable. I'm just glad BB was a decent film, and I dont place it in any context or continuity with any other film. I don't get caught up with what to call it, other than just a "Transformers Film", plain and simple.

The Autobots general unfamiliarity with earth Culture in the first film, to me, pretty much indicates it was supposed to be their first time on Earth. Not sure how you could process that any other way, and that's just scratching the surface. Each successive film presents a problem/problems, and causes a larger contradiction as time goes on.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:57 pm

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They just need to stop interviewing this guy. He is not the only one part of the project, and seeing how successful it is, you should just stop trying to make it a Prequel and justifying an even bigger continuity headache.

Just call it a reboot! Let it happen!
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:58 pm

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
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o.supreme wrote:In all honesty, it doesn't really matter, but for the sake of *geek talk*, there are way to many inconsistencies in ALL live action movies. I tried to squint and head-canon things for myself, but once I saw the TLK, the damage to the continuity was pretty much irreparable. I'm just glad BB was a decent film, and I dont place it in any context or continuity with any other film. I dont get caught up with what to call it, other than just a "Transformers Film", plain and simple.

I don't care for being super strict to the continuity of things generally even if plot holes bug me, but I don't think that trying to salvage a film franchise that breaks continuity with each film is going to be worth it.

TLK tanked, if that's not a wake up call, then franchise suicide will be the eventual fate, I don't want the Transformers films to just stop for a long time because stubborn people don't try to fix their mistakes.

Are any of us going to be invested as much when a reboot is announced 10 years later? G1 will be even older at that point and the 80's folks will be much older then so your losing the prime opportunity to draw in those people, who's going to care for Transformers at 50 or 60 years old?
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:02 pm

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
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D-Maximal_Primal wrote:They just need to stop interviewing this guy. He is not the only one part of the project, and seeing how successful it is, you should just stop trying to make it a Prequel and justifying an even bigger continuity headache.

Just call it a reboot! Let it happen!

This is the same guy who tried to sabotage Peter Cullen's audition for the 2007 film and in general has a major need to attempt to avoid anything from the G1 era.

He's got a bigger ego about the film franchise than Micheal Bay, and I don't think the latter's ego was that much of a problem most of the time.

I will always blame this guy mostly for the previous 5 movie's shortcomings, mostly TLK since he's the one who decided to combine a bunch of separate scripts into one movie. (Aoe Sequel, Knights, WW2, Refugee stuff with Canopy and Izabella)
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Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?

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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:13 pm

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Deadput wrote:who's going to care for Transformers at 50 or 60 years old?


Original Star Trek fans are still very much into their *Trek* despite all the reboots and re-imaginings. They hold those original 3 TV seasons and 6 theatrical films as *gold*. If I'm still alive in another 10-20 years, I'll still be into Transformers. Even if the brand is ruined by horrible changes, that doesn't undo the original toys and show I grew up enjoying.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:14 pm

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
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o.supreme wrote:
Deadput wrote:who's going to care for Transformers at 50 or 60 years old?


Original Star Trek fans are still very much into their *Trek* despite all the reboots and re-imaginings. They hold those original 3 TV seasons and 6 theatrical films as *gold*. If I'm still alive in another 10-20 years, I'll still be into Transformers. Even if the brand is ruined by horrible changes, that doesn't undo the original toys and show I grew up enjoying.

True I said that without thinking about other franchises, I mostly meant that because Transformers is a mostly kid's franchise, more so then Star Trek or Star Wars and people tend to out grow things...sometimes.

Since Earth has that point of view that your a man child if you still "play with toys" and that kind of thing.
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Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?

Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.


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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Nemesis Maximo » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:16 pm

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Thanks for clearing that up, Lorenzo. It’s nice to know that you and other Hollywood types totally and completely understand how a movie is perceived by fans. Now I question why I questioned the continuity in the first place. But now it all makes sense.

The above quote was 100% sarcastic.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:18 pm

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Deadput wrote:
o.supreme wrote:In all honesty, it doesn't really matter, but for the sake of *geek talk*, there are way to many inconsistencies in ALL live action movies. I tried to squint and head-canon things for myself, but once I saw the TLK, the damage to the continuity was pretty much irreparable. I'm just glad BB was a decent film, and I dont place it in any context or continuity with any other film. I dont get caught up with what to call it, other than just a "Transformers Film", plain and simple.

I don't care for being super strict to the continuity of things generally even if plot holes bug me, but I don't think that trying to salvage a film franchise that breaks continuity with each film is going to be worth it.

TLK tanked, if that's not a wake up call, then franchise suicide will be the eventual fate, I don't want the Transformers films to just stop for a long time because stubborn people don't try to fix their mistakes.

Are any of us going to be invested as much when a reboot is announced 10 years later? G1 will be even older at that point and the 80's folks will be much older then so your losing the prime opportunity to draw in those people, who's going to care for Transformers at 50 or 60 years old?

To be fair, to get my interest, they just have to say no G1 or just say we're doing beast wars. They do that and I'm there. Also, I expect a new tf reboot in the next 6 years, and to be integrated with their hasbro movie verse they want, gi Joe vs the Transformers (though we know how it plays out and despite the beginning of the film, it's Joe's and Autobots vs Cobra and cons at the end)

Personally I believe the tf franchise needs to keep looking forward instead of constantly going back to the past, there will be a time when that tactic fails... Then what do you do...
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Nemesis Maximo » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:19 pm

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D-Maximal_Primal wrote:They just need to stop interviewing this guy. He is not the only one part of the project, and seeing how successful it is, you should just stop trying to make it a Prequel and justifying an even bigger continuity headache.

Just call it a reboot! Let it happen!

Very much this. Since when are Producers ever the people who have any clue?

Kevin Feige is literally the only Hollywood producer without his head up his own ass.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:23 pm

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Nemesis Maximo wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:They just need to stop interviewing this guy. He is not the only one part of the project, and seeing how successful it is, you should just stop trying to make it a Prequel and justifying an even bigger continuity headache.

Just call it a reboot! Let it happen!

Very much this. Since when are Producers ever the people who have any clue?

Kevin Feige is literally the only Hollywood producer without his head up his own ass.

Honestly, this deserves to be a reboot. It deserves to have its own future ahead of it.

Also, I cannot fathom Bee never seeing Charlie again. Or the thought of Charlie dying in DotM or TLK during massive attacks.

Bring them back and keep them back, outside of the other 5 movies. I enjoyed those 5 movies, but let this stand alone in a new universe.

Please.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:05 pm

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D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Also, I cannot fathom Bee never seeing Charlie again. Or the thought of Charlie dying in DotM or TLK during massive attacks.
Isn't the San Francisco area (which is where Brighton Falls seems to be near to), like, never attacked in any of the five main movies? If so, I think the Watsons and Memo might be okay.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:14 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Also, I cannot fathom Bee never seeing Charlie again. Or the thought of Charlie dying in DotM or TLK during massive attacks.
Isn't the San Francisco area (which is where Brighton Falls seems to be near to), like, never attacked in any of the five main movies? If so, I think the Watsons and Memo might be okay.

It wasn't, but who knows what Bay had destroyed during TLK when Cybertron struck, or where they could have moved to
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:23 pm

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D-Maximal_Primal wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Also, I cannot fathom Bee never seeing Charlie again. Or the thought of Charlie dying in DotM or TLK during massive attacks.
Isn't the San Francisco area (which is where Brighton Falls seems to be near to), like, never attacked in any of the five main movies? If so, I think the Watsons and Memo might be okay.

It wasn't, but who knows what Bay had destroyed during TLK when Cybertron struck, or where they could have moved to
Until we get any confirmation, I'm sticking to thinking that the Bumblebee movie just swept TLK under the rug, wanting us to pretend it didn't happen. :D
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:25 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Also, I cannot fathom Bee never seeing Charlie again. Or the thought of Charlie dying in DotM or TLK during massive attacks.
Isn't the San Francisco area (which is where Brighton Falls seems to be near to), like, never attacked in any of the five main movies? If so, I think the Watsons and Memo might be okay.

It wasn't, but who knows what Bay had destroyed during TLK when Cybertron struck, or where they could have moved to
Until we get any confirmation, I'm sticking to thinking that the Bumblebee movie just swept TLK under the rug, wanting us to pretend it didn't happen. :D

And I'm just gonna keep thinking Bee is in an alternate universe where life is far better and he and Charlie reunite :D
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Sentinel_Primal » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:37 pm

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... So... Prime's logic was, leave the planet, go back, and then leave for the exact same reason... Is that what he's saying? Cause that's entirely stupid, and not even Bayverse Prime was that stupid. Stupid enough to continue talking to Sam after RotF, but not so stupid that he would waste time, energy, and potentially lives on that stupid of a plan
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:58 pm

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Sentinel_Primal wrote:... So... Prime's logic was, leave the planet, go back, and then leave for the exact same reason... Is that what he's saying? Cause that's entirely stupid, and not even Bayverse Prime was that stupid. Stupid enough to continue talking to Sam after RotF, but not so stupid that he would waste time, energy, and potentially lives on that stupid of a plan
The Autobots left Cybertron in Bumblebee because they couldn't win against the Decepticons and needed to regroup and establish a new base elsewhere. Optimus chose Earth and sent Bumblebee there in advance of the others. The AllSpark had nothing to do with the events of the Bumblebee movie.

Lorenzo doesn't say that they go back to Cybertron later, just that they go "back out", as in back out into space. They leave Earth for whatever reason. Maybe they leave Earth because they decide to go looking for the AllSpark, not knowing that it was on Earth all along. So they leave to go look for it, with Bumblebee staying behind just in case. And that "just in case" proves to be correct when he discovers that the AllSpark is serendipitously on the very same planet that Optimus had sent him to back in 1987, so he calls Optimus and the others back to Earth when he discovers this news years later in 2007.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:51 pm

RodimalToyota wrote:Old Bony is a great Producer, He doesn’t wanna sacrifice any DVD and BluRay sales of the first five movies. By telling everyone its a soft reboot. IMO they should want to distance themselves from the Bay movies. People that absolutely loathed the Micheal Bay movies loved BumbleBee. Regular old casual movie goers.

Sadly, the numbers show that the regular casual audience didnt watch this film.

o.supreme wrote:
Deadput wrote:who's going to care for Transformers at 50 or 60 years old?


Original Star Trek fans are still very much into their *Trek* despite all the reboots and re-imaginings. They hold those original 3 TV seasons and 6 theatrical films as *gold*.

Even Star Trek V?

Nemesis Maximo wrote:Thanks for clearing that up, Lorenzo. It’s nice to know that you and other Hollywood types totally and completely understand how a movie is perceived by fans. Now I question why I questioned the continuity in the first place. But now it all makes sense.

The above quote was 100% sarcastic.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

When i read this interview i was all giddy that I could actually use 100% in the title.

Sabrblade wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Also, I cannot fathom Bee never seeing Charlie again. Or the thought of Charlie dying in DotM or TLK during massive attacks.
Isn't the San Francisco area (which is where Brighton Falls seems to be near to), like, never attacked in any of the five main movies? If so, I think the Watsons and Memo might be okay.

It wasn't, but who knows what Bay had destroyed during TLK when Cybertron struck, or where they could have moved to
Until we get any confirmation, I'm sticking to thinking that the Bumblebee movie just swept TLK under the rug, wanting us to pretend it didn't happen. :D

Agreed, it also fits with Lorenzo literally pretending Unicron didnt happen.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:04 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
o.supreme wrote:
Deadput wrote:who's going to care for Transformers at 50 or 60 years old?


Original Star Trek fans are still very much into their *Trek* despite all the reboots and re-imaginings. They hold those original 3 TV seasons and 6 theatrical films as *gold*.

Even Star Trek V?
Or Star Trek: The Slow Motion Picture?
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:20 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
o.supreme wrote:
Deadput wrote:who's going to care for Transformers at 50 or 60 years old?


Original Star Trek fans are still very much into their *Trek* despite all the reboots and re-imaginings. They hold those original 3 TV seasons and 6 theatrical films as *gold*.

Even Star Trek V?
Or Star Trek: The Slow Motion Picture?

Oh that one has its fans, trust me. It is quite loved, especially for how daring it was to go that route in the midst of star wars madness.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Aimless Misfire » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:59 pm

When they remade/copied Star Wars episode IV & called it The Force Awakens people were pissed & hated it. When they remade/copied the 2007 Transformers movie & called it Bumblebee everybody loved it.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:21 pm

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Aimless Misfire wrote:When they remade/copied Star Wars episode IV & called it The Force Awakens people were pissed & hated it. When they remade/copied the 2007 Transformers movie & called it Bumblebee everybody loved it.

Besides the kid and their car part Bee and 2007 are vastly different in plot progression and character, and even the bid and car part turn out differently.

As for Star Wars people hated the prequel Star Wars movies what the hell else would people directing the next Star Wars film realistically have done? The actual plot points copy a lot from the first Star Wars film step by step.

Perhaps people didn't like Force Awakens because it was a "bad film", Bumblebee is a good film despite similarities to the 2007 film.


Final battle in Bumblebee is different from the 2007 film, the beginning was different from 2007 film and so on.

Taking inspiration from other parts from the franchise isn't the same thing as copying the exact same story progression but tweaking a few things.
Va'al wrote:
Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?

Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.


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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby SillyMcGilly » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:43 pm

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Deadput wrote:God damn it Lorenzo making this a prequel limits what stories can be told by a huge martian.

You can't have the mass populace finding out about the Transformers because they don't know till 2007 unless you pull off the whole Men In Black mind wipe scene (Or the military nukes the town or executes/silences civilian witnesses.) So that limits where the movie can take place and where the Transformers can be in robot mode.

You have to make Sector 7 the only actual military involved with the Transformers since the most of USA doesn't know anything in 2007 (I think the current President at the time knows about Sector 7 but not that they had Megatron if I remember the film correctly)

You can't have Megatron around on Earth at all which limits his presence to flashbacks and prequels on Cybertron because he's frozen since sometime before 1897 where he was first discovered by Sam's great grandfather and then at Sector 7's base in the 1930's at Hoover Dam (Which was created to keep the Allspark in the first place, and let me remind you that Shatter and Dropkick were inside the base and give full access to all of Sector 7's equipment, there is no logical reason why they did not find out about either the Allspark or Megatron, they were able to detect Bumblebee's signal from Saturn's moon so they must have some good scanners.)

You limit the fates of characters in the films and who can show up, you can't kill certain characters who appear in the other films and character development is wasted on them because they die off later with little characterization which will leave people unsatisfied or dread at the fact that say Jazz is going to die in the first Transformers film anyways so what's the point of giving him any role? Like no fan is going to get invested in them, Bay fan, G1 fan or otherwise.

Ah yeah at some point you need to "upgrade" the characters to Bayverse looks like Starscream has to stop being a Seeker and turn into a dorito at some point or Soundwave becoming vastly different and gaining a new voice.

You put someone new like Bludgeon on Earth and then you got to kill him off because he can't be around by 2007, can't bring in any tech like Space Bridges or Matrix because of the other films.

I'm starting to ramble but my god making this a prequel or at the very least not going into a new direction is absolutely idiotic.

Did The Last Knight not happen or something? Will nothing have been learned?


Sometimes I think Lorenzo's pride gets in the way of the brand. Either that or he's an absolute idiot, but I doubt that.

Basically, I 100% agree. It really ticks me off knowing what Travis Knight intended, and yet Lorenzo if forcing the whole round peg of this movie into the square hole of the last five. Eventually the entire brand will just shatter.

Frankly, I think if Lorenzo were taken out of the picture for next entries, the whole thing would ignore the last movies. But you know Paramount cares more about avoiding temporary risks than giving themselves more wiggle room for later. Idunno, I really enjoyed Bumblebee, but what Lorenzo is trying to do with it really pisses me off frankly. There's literally nowhere else to go that people would enjoy fully as prequels. It's just ridiculous. If the next movies try to tie themselves in more, I'm gonna be seriously disappointed, because they're basically setting themselves up for a boring bomb again.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby Megatron Wolf » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:01 pm

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Wasnt it already established that this is a retcon & not a reboot? I finally got around to seeing it and this movie retcons alot of stuff in the previous movies, and it cant be explained away by saying they left then came back especially the WWII stuff. Now i know the movies are a mess when it comes to continuity but even taking that into account theres no way bumblebee is a 100% prequel.
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Re: Transformers Bumblebee Movie SPOILER Discussion Thread

Postby zfogshooterz » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:59 am

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Actually, I would've been fine if it's a reboot or just a fun solo film now.

For the past five films, I've (verily and) easily forgo the continuity inconsistencies due to its visual direction consistency. Bumblebee's G1 direction just killed it for me personally. The characters of the past five films looks consistent and I see as each new movie a new chapter/adventure for them. The mythological aspect is pretty awesome and bring something new to the table (for me). With the characters looking G1 now. They totally seem like different characters now. And with that already in my mind, all the continuity inconsistencies for Bumblebee just became completely blatant.

Of course aside from the G1 visuals. There's also the WWII inconsistency that heavily bugs me. Had these two issues not been there, it'll be quite a cool film personally. I actually left the theater (after watching) feeling that the previous five films is far more superior than this as I did not get the awesome mind-blowing feeling like I did after watching TLK and the others.

So yeah, I guess in my mind this film doesn't exist in the Bayverse and will be as a completely separate film/alternate reality.
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