The Energon Pub

[MaximalNui]

Skywarp having the ability to teleport made me so happy. Has this happened since G1?

Mostly in the comics, as far as I can remember.

I didn't say I was upset. I've always found excessive humanising of Transformers creepy. Just as I found sexualising the designs of Transformers Very creepy.

So an alien identifying as "he" or "she" is an appropriate amount of humanizing, but an alien not identifying as a he or a she is an excessive amount of humanizing.

[Of course, all of this disregards the fact Nightshade isn' an alien to begon with.]

Humanizing in this case may be done, not by the bots, but by the humans for ease of communication. We're used to certain verbal cues with communication. The bots may simply have adopted it as an easier way to communicate.

I think Hasbro's official line is that Transformers instinctively adapt to their social environment, rapidly learning new languages and customs, and that includes the concept of identifying with another race's gender roles. They then bring those ideas back to Cybertron, where some of it gets passed around and adopted by those who never had direct contact with a gendered race.

Although, again, this isn't really relevant to Nightshade.

In the end, it's a cartoon. I'm still mad they are using "they" as a singular. IT'S PLURAL DAMNIT! MORE THAN ONE! LERN UR GRAMMER!!!

FYI, they isn't strictly plural, according to US grammar standards. You probably use it as a singular without even realizing it. Like when talking about a toy haul or a toy someone got. It's their toy, their haul, ect.

It's almost like the language evolves and adapts to reality and how people use it, and not the other way around.

In closing, since this page progressed significantly while I was asleep. Also some were leaping to conclusions about what I was getting at.

I was talking to a nonbinary friend of mine (whom I jokingly nickname 'Mondas') not too long ago. That there was going to be a nonbinary character debuting in the new Transformers cartoon. Mondas was happy that there would be some representation, at the level of a child's cartoon. Which ideally will help to normalise the gender for that generation. Then I found out who the character was and relayed that. The exact quote was "Oh great, a robot? Not a human being ...FFS"

Did you mention they're living robots with human personalities who up until now were exclusively binary-coded? Or just that they were a robot?

Anyway, that's usually how this starts. First writers need to work loopholes and metaphors like alien/robot races to get past producers and moral guardians, and then when most of the audience is more comfortable with the concept they start using actual humans. It's how it happened with most of the other LGBTQ+ identities, it's how it'll happen with non-binaries too (it technically already happened with The Owl House).

You must remember that for a good portion of the fandom, episodes 1 and 2 are the only ones available, so if you can please extend a courtesy spoiler tag for details past those episodes, mostly for plot and some character related items.

Honestly, it's killing me not to talk about tbe Beast Machines influences seeded in the pilot and then built on on further towards the end of the season.

Technoorganics!

Bots that don't need energon!

Caves full of magic water!

Possible connections to the quintessons!

I agree on all of this, I didn't see it initially, but it is pretty in your face when you start to pay attention, and that's really neat

I actually only noticed the first point, but seeing everything else really strenghtens the connection.
I do hope Quintus himself shows up in the future.

[william-james88]

I'll admit while I am good with most designs, I was not a fan of this take on frenzy/rumble, aesthetics wise

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I'll admit while I am good with most designs, I was not a fan of this take on frenzy/rumble, aesthetics wise

I actually really liked that design, it was different, but it was really neat and I liked the head sculpt

[Dr. Caelus]

I'll admit while I am good with most designs, I was not a fan of this take on frenzy/rumble, aesthetics wise

I actually really liked that design, it was different, but it was really neat and I liked the head sculpt

I thought the design was enough of a departure I would have liked for her to be a new character altogether. That's trivial within the show, but new characters always stand a chance of making the jump beyond their introductory line to show up again in a place like the Legacy Line. Adding a new cassette, after all these years, would be good, and she would have been fun to eventually see running around with Rumble and Feenzy.

All in all, though, the thing I actually complained to my wife about was Ravage being blue.

[william-james88]

I'll admit while I am good with most designs, I was not a fan of this take on frenzy/rumble, aesthetics wise

I actually really liked that design, it was different, but it was really neat and I liked the head sculpt

I thought the design was enough of a departure I would have liked for her to be a new character altogether. That's trivial within the show, but new characters always stand a chance of making the jump beyond their introductory line to show up again in a place like the Legacy Line. Adding a new cassette, after all these years, would be good, and she would have been fun to eventually see running around with Rumble and Feenzy.

All in all, though, the thing I actually complained to my wife about was Ravage being blue.

I agree with making it a new character at that point. The only thing similar was the alt mode and colour. Though I will admit I did not realize Ravage was blue.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Did you mention they're living robots with human personalities who up until now were exclusively binary-coded? Or just that they were a robot?

They know what a Transformer is. However, in Mondas' words: "Generally most people don't see robots as being coded, at all. Just as a robot. An "it", a thing, a construct. So that isn't the ideal candidate to normalise atypical human concepts."

The way xe looked at it. The brother would have been the preferred option.

[Dr. Caelus]

However, in Mondas' words: "Generally most people don't see robots as being coded, at all. Just as a robot. An "it", a thing, a construct.

I don't buy that. Even if that were true, there's an enormous difference between a Roomba and C-3P0.

Also, if we were going to drill down to it, neither Nightshade nor Robby are robots or humans, they're both computer-rendered cartoons voiced by human performers and animated with human mannerisms, playing out a fantasy story about a family adopting water-drinking creatures born in a cave from primordial soup, a magic rock, prayers to an alien demi-god, and the imagination of children. There's really very little of anything related to robots in that.

[ZeroWolf]

Plus the gender coded robots horse already fled the barn with then adding Elita and Arcee back in the 80s (and with the Victory manga piling on with the occupants of the fortress that Deathsaurus was trying to bring back...).

[AllNewSuperRobot]

However, in Mondas' words: "Generally most people don't see robots as being coded, at all. Just as a robot. An "it", a thing, a construct.

I don't buy that. Even if that were true, there's an enormous difference between a Roomba and C-3P0.

Between a real life robot and a fictional one, sure. Real world robots (even the fancy Boston Dynamics ones) are thought of as machines. Which is something subjectively projected onto fictional ones too. The Droid Army in Star Wars Episode 1 or un-skinned Terminators similarly can be viewed as such.

That interpretation can also be dictated by real life experience and value judgements. To paraphrase the old saying: The difference between people who walk the walk (Nonbinary, LGBT+ etc), instead of talk the talk (Social Media virtue signalling). If someone nonbinary doesn't think a robot (at any level of sophistication) is good representation to them, in lieu of a human (animated or not), they are right to make that call.

[Dr. Caelus]

If someone nonbinary doesn't think a robot (at any level of sophistication) is good representation to them, in lieu of a human (animated or not), they are right to make that call.

(1) Once again, we're not talking about sophisticated robots.

(2) Your one non-binary friend is free to feel however they wish, but I'd sure be a lot more interested in the opinions of nonbinary individuals who have actually watched the show, than the second hand account of the opinion of one non-binary person who knows nothing about the show beyond what has been related to them by a not-non-binary person who has themself also not watched the show.

Also, didn't this conversation start with you complaining that making Nightshade non-binary was humanizing them too much? And now you're arguing that Nightshade shouldn't have been non-binary because they can't be humanized enough?

It sure seems like you just really want a reason to complain about the show, and are willing to slide from one subject to another, littering buzzwords (e.g., "sexualizing", "virtue signaling") as you go, to try and do that without having to actually watch the show.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Also, didn't this conversation start with you complaining about making Nightshade nonbinary was humanizing them too much? And now you're arguing that Nightshade shouldn't have been nonbinary because they can't be humanized enough?

No, not really.(A) I wasn't complaining, at any point, and (B) you're confusing yourself. The last point made no sense at all in regards to what was said. Assigning human traits to Transformers in a series with actual humans is humanising too much. That's what the humans should be there for. Just as someone mentioned early, there is a world of difference between the designs of Elita-1,Arcee etc and the aesthetic basis for Blackarachnia.


Upon mention of Nightshade, Mondas did actually look into the show and watch it themselves. More than I have, because I refuse to keep buying into more streaming services. So actually has a first hand basis to their opinion. Not that weirdly elaborate paragraph you went into. Throwing around buzzwords as you go

For the record, I enjoyed the one episode I've seen more than any point in Siege.

[ZeroWolf]

For the record, I enjoyed the one episode I've seen more than any point in Siege.

I'm not sure that's a hard feat to achieve to be fair.

[Dr. Caelus]

Just as someone mentioned early, there is a world of difference between the designs of Elita-1,Arcee etc and the aesthetic basis for Blackarachnia.

Can you point me to where someone said that?

[MaximalNui]

However, in Mondas' words: "Generally most people don't see robots as being coded, at all. Just as a robot. An "it", a thing, a construct.

I don't buy that. Even if that were true, there's an enormous difference between a Roomba and C-3P0.

Between a real life robot and a fictional one, sure. Real world robots (even the fancy Boston Dynamics ones) are thought of as machines. Which is something subjectively projected onto fictional ones too. The Droid Army in Star Wars Episode 1 or un-skinned Terminators similarly can be viewed as such.

That interpretation can also be dictated by real life experience and value judgements. To paraphrase the old saying: The difference between people who walk the walk (Nonbinary, LGBT+ etc), instead of talk the talk (Social Media virtue signalling). If someone nonbinary doesn't think a robot (at any level of sophistication) is good representation to them, in lieu of a human (animated or not), they are right to make that call.

I think that has less to do with them being robots and more with them being faceless, figuratively (and literally) mass-produced mooks, much like the completely-organic Stormtroopers. On the other hand, completely unique robots with clearly-defined personalites, like the before-mentioned C-3P0, or Data, or Ninjago's Zane, or every single Transformers that isn't a sparkless drone or an army builder, tend to be treated and accepted as people both in- and out-of-universe.

Also, how does that leaves series like BIONICLE and Shadow Raiders, which have absolutely no humans in sight? If they chose to add representation to a future reboot, it wouldn't count because they're "not human"?

This reminds me of something I read once about The Chronicles of Narnia (I'm looking for the site but I can't find it right now). Basically, some Christian fundamentalists criticized the books for portraying Jesus as "an animal", to which Lewis basically responded "to a child, a talking lion is a person".

[Sabrblade]

Just brainstorming, but, you guys know what I'd like to see happen in this show? I'd like to see Hot Rod introduced into the show in such a manner like this: Since the space bridge's destruction cut off the Earth-based Autobots and Decepticons from Cybertron, there was no contact between Cybertron and Earth, meaning neither planet had any way of knowing about anything that was going on the other planet.

With many years having passed since the end of the Great War on Earth and the show's present day, I'd like to see the Autobots on Cybertron believe that Optimus Prime was lost for good, and had since elected a new leader, with Hot Rod having become Rodimus.

Though, rather than via the Matrix, this Rodimus would have simply matured on his own and proven himself a confident and capable leader through growth and experience. Though, he'd still have the fun-loving adventurousness of his youth to balance out the weight of his new sense of responsibility. He'd be a serious leader who also has a fun side.

And most of all, with "Family" being such a heavy theme in this show, here's the biggest twist on this new version of Rodimus: When he and Optimus would finally reunite on Earth, having not seen each other for the first time in years, Optimus would reveal to the Maltos (and to us, the viewers) that this version of Rodimus... is Optimus Prime's own son!

This would also tie in to why Hot Rod, of all bots, would have stepped up to the role of leadership. He'd want to honor his missing dad by following in his footsteps and filling the big shoes that Optimus left to fill.

And this is all just wishful thinking on my part, but I feel the perfect voice actor for a Rodimus who is both grownup and still young at heart would be Townsend Coleman. Using his natural voice.

[Burn]

Finally finished the first season.

I went into it with low expectations based on the trailer and the first few minutes that had been previewed. Suffice to say, I was impressed. Story wise it was well done, not a fan of Alan Tudyk as Optimus Prime (heard his Harry Vanderspeigle Resident Alien character come out too many times - including mannerisms and inflections). Would also have expected "The Hound" to be a bit more menacing as Megatron.

Characters ... none were annoying. You always seem to have that one character each series that's really annoying, but not in this case. Absolutely love the character of Alex Malto, he brought the light heartedness at just the right time but seriousness when he had to. Perhaps the biggest let down character wise was Mandroid, it's just a little hard to take him seriously.

Animation wise, I've seen people complain about it, but I have no complaints.

"Controversies"? The pronouns thing had no bearing on me, it was almost a blink and you miss it kind of thing but I've seen people speak out for it and how it mattered to THEM.

As for gender swapping, not going to lie, I've never been a fan of that sort of thing, but again, it doesn't personally affect me. I look at Earthspark not as a sequel to G1, but a divergent timeline that was created when the Space Bridge was destroyed. It's a new universe, so characters are going to be different.

Overall, this series has the potential to be a great series for the young folk (you know, the people it's ACTUALLY aimed at) to become Transformers fans.

[Dr. Caelus]

I look at Earthspark not as a sequel to G1, but a divergent timeline that was created when the Space Bridge was destroyed.

I thought it was interesting that the timeline so explicitly diverges before that, actually.

Elita-1 accompanies Optimus Prime to Earth, and Bumblebee is left behind on Cybertron.

They are so very specific in calling that out, I feel like it probably has more importance than seems immediately obvious, and I suspect it's important because it influenced Optimus's willingness to destroy the spacebridge.

Assuming Novastorm is more or less the same seeker we see in G1, her presence on Earth is also notable, as the afforementioned divergence may have led Shockwave to send her across the spacebridge before it was destroyed, rather than retain her for protection on Cybertron. It will be interesting to see if Shockwave also came across at that point.

It will also be interesting to see whether Skullcruncher arrived with Scorponok's crew as he did in G1 Marvel. Scorponok would br a great Earthspark villain, and maybe explain Megatron's defection to protecting Earth.

[Sabrblade]

Optimus does also note that the war went on for decades on Earth, so it's not like it ended immediately after they got there. As in, it's not like the events of "More Than Meets the Eye, Parts 1-3" happened, then "Transport to Oblivion" happened, and then the war just ended.

That G1-styled flashback was just animated for pure fan service. We see a photograph of how Megatron looked back during the war and he looks just like he does in the present, only with a Decepticon symbol on his chest instead of the G.H.O.S.T. insignia.

[Dr. Caelus]

Optimus does also note that the war went on for decades on Earth, so it's not like it ended immediately after they got there. As in, it's not like the events of "More Than Meets the Eye, Parts 1-3" happened, then "Transport to Oblivion" happened, and then the war just ended.

That G1-styled flashback was just animated for pure fan service. We see a photograph of how Megatron looked back during the war and he looks just like he does in the present, only with a Decepticon symbol on his chest instead of the G.H.O.S.T. insignia.

Megatron fought on for 15 years, so I presumed he adopted a new alternate mode at some point in there. Presumably sometime after the V22 Osprey's first flight in 1989.

Addendum: Note thatSoundwave turns into a stealthfighter but his minions still turn into 1980s cassettes.

[Burn]

I look at Earthspark not as a sequel to G1, but a divergent timeline that was created when the Space Bridge was destroyed.

I thought it was interesting that the timeline so explicitly diverges before that, actually.

Elita-1 accompanies Optimus Prime to Earth, and Bumblebee is left behind on Cybertron.

ah yes, I did forget that. The space bridge part stood out for me the most, hence why I went with that point of divergence. But obviously there was a point earlier in history, obviously before they left Cybertron, which would have caused a divergent timeline.

Which makes you wonder ... could Earthspark spin off it's own version of Beast Wars?

[Dr. Caelus]

I look at Earthspark not as a sequel to G1, but a divergent timeline that was created when the Space Bridge was destroyed.

I thought it was interesting that the timeline so explicitly diverges before that, actually.

Elita-1 accompanies Optimus Prime to Earth, and Bumblebee is left behind on Cybertron.

ah yes, I did forget that. The space bridge part stood out for me the most, hence why I went with that point of divergence. But obviously there was a point earlier in history, obviously before they left Cybertron, which would have caused a divergent timeline.

I'm guessing MtMtE ep1 scene 1. Something happens that delays Bumblebee and Wheeljack returning to the Ark.

Which makes you wonder ... could Earthspark spin off it's own version of Beast Wars?

I wouldn't be surprised if Jawbreaker or Nightshade scan beast modes, since they're already technoorganic and we've already seen 5 bots with beast modes. Might tie into Grimlock dropping in in the second season, and Mandroid ratcheting up his upgrade plans.

[Sabrblade]

I wouldn't be surprised if Jawbreaker or Nightshade scan beast modes, since they're already technoorganic and we've already seen 5 bots with beast modes. Might tie into Grimlock dropping in in the second season, and Mandroid ratcheting up his upgrade plans.

Second season? You mean we gotta wait after 16 more episodes of Season 1 before Grimlock finally shows up? I was hoping he'd show up when the second or even third batch of Season 1 episodes drop.

[Dr. Caelus]

I wouldn't be surprised if Jawbreaker or Nightshade scan beast modes, since they're already technoorganic and we've already seen 5 bots with beast modes. Might tie into Grimlock dropping in in the second season, and Mandroid ratcheting up his upgrade plans.

Second season? You mean we gotta wait after 16 more episodes of Season 1 before Grimlock finally shows up? I was hoping he'd show up when the second or even third batch of Season 1 episodes drop.

Maybe not. He's in thevcross sell with the Wave 1 Deluxes.

[william-james88]

People,my self included, are confusing this first batch of episodes as the entirety of season one, which isn't the case. I don't know if the remaining 16 will be dumped and I hope they do include Grimlock. Also, no more need of spoilers, all episodes are only a click away for anyone with an internet connection.

[Sabrblade]

Most likely the next batch will be episodes 11-18, and then the third batch will be 19-26.