The Energon Pub

A thirteen and a half minute video on Escalation and I still don't have an answer to the biggest question on my mind: will FoC Escalation give the player points for assists?

It's the single biggest, most retarded aspect of the co-op mode. All that talk of working together, of talking to each other, of spending points together, but you can't earn points together. I'm royally f**ked off with using a third of my ammunition taking on a Titan only to lose the kill to some asshole who's been hidden in a corner somewhere waiting for things to quieten down.

Another article on wfc:
http://gamerant.com/transformers-fall-o ... ao-154197/
This one by text.

lolz at the Cliffjumper typo as well.

Dead Metal wrote:No, the statement is this:
The game shows us how Prime Bumblebee losses his ability to speak. Remember, War For Cybertron was set in the Prime/ Aligned continuity it's only logical that the sequel to it is also set in the Prime continuity.

Again, we don't know if Aligned is even one continuity yet, or many.

I'm not saying WFC/FoC isn't in the aligned continuity family, I'm saying that the G1 continuity family might share WFC/FoC with Aligned. It's more than possible. Remember, stranger things HAVE happened in the Transformers franchise.

Dead Metal wrote:We've been over this for the past two years, War for Cybertron is part of the Prime continuity not G1.

We've been "over this" because both sides have evidence that WFC/FoC are in each respective continuity family. What you're trying to do is ignore contradicting evidence and claim that everything points to your conclusion.

I'm not necessarily on the "WFC=G1" side. I'm just trying to be reasonable here.

Dead Metal wrote:Arguing against that makes you on par with the kind of people who believe that Reptoids have been simultaneously guiding and working towards destroying our species for the past 10 thousand years or so.

Yeah... no.

Sodan-1 wrote:A thirteen and a half minute video on Escalation and I still don't have an answer to the biggest question on my mind: will FoC Escalation give the player points for assists?

It's the single biggest, most retarded aspect of the co-op mode. All that talk of working together, of talking to each other, of spending points together, but you can't earn points together. I'm royally f**ked off with using a third of my ammunition taking on a Titan only to lose the kill to some asshole who's been hidden in a corner somewhere waiting for things to quieten down.

I know that feel bro.

Still, I'm pretty good in Escalation (if I do say so myself, placed around 100 in the leaderboards so either nerd or fan or kinda good). But that isn't my biggest annoyance, that is reserved for the weapon stealers. If you don't have the best connection you have to press "use" after you bought the gun to pick it up. And there are trolls that steal the gun you bought. You just have to be alone at a shop to buy stuff, never let anyone close.

But even more annoying is those trolls that go outside of the map and continue to play so that the match doesn't end. Those kids that say they "know a way out of the map". Sure, everybody knows that by now, just don't do it play normal and show some skill

Anyway, Escalation is the only reason I still play the game almost ever since the launch. It's so great to play an iconic character with 3 others and just battle hordes of enemies.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:No, the statement is this:
The game shows us how Prime Bumblebee losses his ability to speak. Remember, War For Cybertron was set in the Prime/ Aligned continuity it's only logical that the sequel to it is also set in the Prime continuity.

Again, we don't know if Aligned is even one continuity yet, or many.

Hasbro says it's one continuity.

orangeitis wrote:I'm not saying WFC/FoC isn't in the aligned continuity family, I'm saying that the G1 continuity family might share WFC/FoC with Aligned. It's more than possible. Remember, stranger things HAVE happened in the Transformers franchise.

Dead Metal wrote:We've been over this for the past two years, War for Cybertron is part of the Prime continuity not G1.

We've been "over this" because both sides have evidence that WFC/FoC are in each respective continuity family. What you're trying to do is ignore contradicting evidence and claim that everything points to your conclusion.

No sorry, you're confusing me with you, I'm not stating that everything points to "my" conclusion, I'm saying it points to the official conclusion.

You're ignoring the official word and the inconsistencies WFC and FOC have with all G1 continuities, which are even larger than the the ones it has with Prime, especially considering that Prime even has an episode devoted to retelling the main story points of WFC as its history.


Almost every incarnation of G1 has had its own history via stories set in those times or flashbacks, or even history footage from those times.
WFC jives with non of them.

You could make a better case of Animated sharing the same history as G1 due to the "history video" easter egg in the first episode, but please don't restart that one.

Here have it from Archer at a BotCon panel from last year.
http://www.seibertron.com/news/index.ph ... _sponors=y
Scroll down to Modern Continuity.

orangeitis wrote:I'm not necessarily on the "WFC=G1" side. I'm just trying to be reasonable here.

Erm, no actually not. Yes there are inconsistencies but looking at the points from earlier, well.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Arguing against that makes you on par with the kind of people who believe that Reptoids have been simultaneously guiding and working towards destroying our species for the past 10 thousand years or so.

Yeah... no.

I'm sorry, it does.

Dead Metal wrote:No sorry, you're confusing me with you,

Chill out, no need to be hostile. =D

Dead Metal wrote:I'm not stating that everything points to "my" conclusion, I'm saying it points to the official conclusion.

It's still your conclusion. You merely share it with Hasbro.

Dead Metal wrote:You're ignoring the official word and the inconsistencies WFC and FOC have with all G1 continuities, which are even larger than the the ones it has with Prime, especially considering that Prime even has an episode devoted to retelling the main story points of WFC as its history.

I'm not ignoring Hasbro's word, I'm simply acknowledging that inconsistencies take precedent in saying that the fictions are in different continuities over Hasbro's word. The similarities of the different fictions is irrelevant.

Dead Metal wrote:Almost every incarnation of G1 has had its own history via stories set in those times or flashbacks, or even history footage from those times.
WFC jives with non of them.

That doesn't matter to the issue here.

Dead Metal wrote:You could make a better case of Animated sharing the same history as G1 due to the "history video" easter egg in the first episode, but please don't restart that one.

Isn't Animated a G1 universe though? That was my understanding. Then again, I haven't watched it enough to come to a solid viewpoint yet.

Dead Metal wrote:Here have it from Archer at a BotCon panel from last year.
http://www.seibertron.com/news/index.ph ... _sponors=y
Scroll down to Modern Continuity.

I'm well aware what they said. But again, it's irrelevant.

Dead Metal wrote:

orangeitis wrote:I'm not necessarily on the "WFC=G1" side. I'm just trying to be reasonable here.

Erm, no actually not. Yes there are inconsistencies but looking at the points from earlier, well.

Yes, I am trying to be reasonable. You seem like you're assuming that I'm not because you don't agree with my open-minded view.

I'm not trying to say that Exodus/Exiles, WFC/FoC, or Prime isn't set in the same universe. I'm saying that it's very unlikely from a continuity perspective, and that(from what Matt Tieger said about it leading into G1) WFC/FoC could also be set in a new G1 universe, where the timeline branches out.

Dead Metal wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Arguing against that makes you on par with the kind of people who believe that Reptoids have been simultaneously guiding and working towards destroying our species for the past 10 thousand years or so.

Yeah... no.

I'm sorry, it does.

No, it does not. I'm presenting logic and evidence for my case. You have just made a claim that doesn't make any sense. Reptiles aren't sapient, so they are incapable of actively wanting to destroy the human species. Your reasoning is becoming increasingly irrational.

Just because you don't understand the other side's view don't mean that their view is as flawed as you perceive it to be. It just means that you're arguing without investigation, and are ignorant to the logic of the one(s) you're talking to. The very fact that you made such a comparison is evidence that you're being unreasonable, and if you're not gonna take your side of the issue on faith and refuse to take the time to understand, then you've already lost the argument.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:You could make a better case of Animated sharing the same history as G1 due to the "history video" easter egg in the first episode, but please don't restart that one.

Isn't Animated a G1 universe though? That was my understanding. Then again, I haven't watched it enough to come to a solid viewpoint yet.

I've seen you use the term "Primax" to refer to G1-related media. Animated has its own universal cluster called "Malgus", which is very much separate from Primax.

Sabrblade wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:You could make a better case of Animated sharing the same history as G1 due to the "history video" easter egg in the first episode, but please don't restart that one.

Isn't Animated a G1 universe though? That was my understanding. Then again, I haven't watched it enough to come to a solid viewpoint yet.

I've seen you use the term "Primax" to refer to G1-related media. Animated has its own universal cluster called "Malgus", which is very much separate from Primax.

Ah, that's right. Thanks for clearing that up. =)

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I'm not stating that everything points to "my" conclusion, I'm saying it points to the official conclusion.

It's still your conclusion. You merely share it with Hasbro.

No it's only my conclusion because it comes from the people who make Transformers. I mean how can you just completely ignore the word of those who are responsible for the thing we're debating here?
That's like going up to a family and argue against them belonging together, just because you first thought that their children where those of the neighbours.

Hasbro wrote up the new aligned bible as something new, a new starting off point to be used from now on, if they say it's not connected to G1 then it damn well isn't.

Dead Metal wrote:You're ignoring the official word and the inconsistencies WFC and FOC have with all G1 continuities, which are even larger than the the ones it has with Prime, especially considering that Prime even has an episode devoted to retelling the main story points of WFC as its history.

I'm not ignoring Hasbro's word, I'm simply acknowledging that inconsistencies take precedent in saying that the fictions are in different continuities over Hasbro's word. The similarities of the different fictions is irrelevant.

So just cos it's inconsistant means it voids HAsbro's word?
Cool, that means that every episode of the old G1 cartoon are their own continuities and have no real connection to each other.

Dead Metal wrote:Almost every incarnation of G1 has had its own history via stories set in those times or flashbacks, or even history footage from those times.
WFC jives with non of them.

That doesn't matter to the issue here.

It does, because you're trying to make it fit in.

Dead Metal wrote:You could make a better case of Animated sharing the same history as G1 due to the "history video" easter egg in the first episode, but please don't restart that one.

Isn't Animated a G1 universe though? That was my understanding. Then again, I haven't watched it enough to come to a solid viewpoint yet.

I don't even want to comment on that one.

Dead Metal wrote:Here have it from Archer at a BotCon panel from last year.
http://www.seibertron.com/news/index.ph ... _sponors=y
Scroll down to Modern Continuity.

I'm well aware what they said. But again, it's irrelevant.

I'll save this for later, it comes in handy.

Dead Metal wrote:

orangeitis wrote:I'm not necessarily on the "WFC=G1" side. I'm just trying to be reasonable here.

Erm, no actually not. Yes there are inconsistencies but looking at the points from earlier, well.

Yes, I am trying to be reasonable. You seem like you're assuming that I'm not because you don't agree with my open-minded view.

I'm not trying to say that Exodus/Exiles, WFC/FoC, or Prime isn't set in the same universe. I'm saying that it's very unlikely from a continuity perspective, and that(from what Matt Tieger said about it leading into G1) WFC/FoC could also be set in a new G1 universe, where the timeline branches out.
[/quote]
This is where the point from earlier comes into play, you know the one where you state that what the creators say is irrelevant. How come Matt Tieger has more validly to you than the guys whose work and ideas it's based off? Remember, WFC and FOC are adaptations of the same source material as Exodus and Exiles.


It's not open-minded, it's insane. You can't make something fit for something it wasn't intended to. Hey how about we'll throw in the idea that WFC can also be shared by the Movie universe, although the movies and their material completely contradict it.

But hey, we're all open-minded here who says that WFC doesn't branch out into Prime, G1, Movie, RID, Armada, hell it could actually also be the back story to Ghostbusters and Go-Bots.

Dead Metal wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Arguing against that makes you on par with the kind of people who believe that Reptoids have been simultaneously guiding and working towards destroying our species for the past 10 thousand years or so.

Yeah... no.

I'm sorry, it does.

No, it does not. I'm presenting logic and evidence for my case. You have just made a claim that doesn't make any sense. Reptiles aren't sapient, so they are incapable of actively wanting to destroy the human species. Your reasoning is becoming increasingly irrational.

You have just explained to me the point of the comparison I made. Because, there are people who believe everything that's on this page and that's who I compared you to.

Just because you don't understand the other side's view don't mean that their view is as flawed as you perceive it to be. It just means that you're arguing without investigation, and are ignorant to the logic of the one(s) you're talking to. The very fact that you made such a comparison is evidence that you're being unreasonable, and if you're not gonna take your side of the issue on faith and refuse to take the time to understand, then you've already lost the argument.

No no no no, I at first too though that WFC was a new G1, but it doesn't fit at all.
Adding to that that Tieger is always so eager to say "This is the first time that the history of the Transformers had been told" further proves that this can't be G1.
The G1 continuities have their own histories, that have all been told, heck the histories are part of their incarnations. That alone completely negates this as being the back story to any version of G1 ever.

Also, trying to figure out where something fits while ignoring the facts laid down by the frigen owners and creators is being unreasonable.

Also, that line of just taking faith and believing your side of the argument based on it, actually makes you the looser of the argument, you should look up what faith means before you try to use it as an argument winner.

Couldn't WFC also be the background for the Movies? Excluding the design aesthetic. Theres seems to be enough vagueness in the movies backgrounds to just attach them to WFC. Prime and Megatron used to be brothers, etc etc, last of the primes, etc, and then WFC is supposed to be connected to Prime, and then Prime is sort of supposed to be connected to the movies or some crap? Seems like such a mess.

Wait, why do I care about the movies.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Couldn't WFC also be the background for the Movies? Couldn't WFC also be the background for the Movies? Excluding the design aesthetic. Theres seems to be enough vagueness in the movies backgrounds to just attach them to WFC.

"Movie Prequel", "Defiance", "Tales of the Fallen", and "Foundation" say otherwise.

MINDVVIPE wrote:and then Prime is sort of supposed to be connected to the movies or some crap?

Prime has no ties to the movies.

Sabrblade wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:Couldn't WFC also be the background for the Movies? Couldn't WFC also be the background for the Movies? Excluding the design aesthetic. Theres seems to be enough vagueness in the movies backgrounds to just attach them to WFC.

"Movie Prequel", "Defiance", "Tales of the Fallen", and "Foundation" say otherwise.

MINDVVIPE wrote:and then Prime is sort of supposed to be connected to the movies or some crap?

Prime has no ties to the movies.

Gotcha. There is that one point someone brought up, about dark energon from WFC being different from Prime. How does that roll? is that just a flaw that Hasbro sorta overlooks for storytelling purposes and the 2 (prime and WFC) are connected regardless? Sorry if these questions seem simple compared to the crazy debate just previous, but I wanted to keep things simple as much as possible with all the crazy different things people are saying.

MINDVVIPE wrote:There is that one point someone brought up, about dark energon from WFC being different from Prime. How does that roll? is that just a flaw that Hasbro sorta overlooks for storytelling purposes and the 2 (prime and WFC) are connected regardless? Sorry if these questions seem simple compared to the crazy debate just previous, but I wanted to keep things simple as much as possible with all the crazy different things people are saying.

It was stated at BotCon 2011 that the differing effects between the Dark Energon of the games/books and the Dark Energon of the cartoon were due to the different time periods. Present-day Dark Energon acts differently from ancient Dark Energon, though both still hold the same corrupting properties.

Sabrblade wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:There is that one point someone brought up, about dark energon from WFC being different from Prime. How does that roll? is that just a flaw that Hasbro sorta overlooks for storytelling purposes and the 2 (prime and WFC) are connected regardless? Sorry if these questions seem simple compared to the crazy debate just previous, but I wanted to keep things simple as much as possible with all the crazy different things people are saying.

It was stated at BotCon 2011 that the differing effects between the Dark Energon of the games/books and the Dark Energon of the cartoon were due to the different time periods. Present-day Dark Energon acts differently from ancient Dark Energon, though both still hold the same corrupting properties.

Elves did it, gotcha.
I don't need so much reasoning to enjoy it anyway, just curious. Thanks.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Elves did it, gotcha.

Dead Metal wrote:No it's only my conclusion because it comes from the people who make Transformers. I mean how can you just completely ignore the word of those who are responsible for the thing we're debating here?
That's like going up to a family and argue against them belonging together, just because you first thought that their children where those of the neighbours.

This part right here demonstrates that you don't understand my position on this. Your analogy is far from accurate.

First of all, I'm not ignoring what Hasbro is saying. I'm merely acknowledging what Matt Tieger(you know, the one who's in charge of creating the WFC/FoC games), and considering his word to be just as official as, say, Aaron Archer, when it comes to WFC and FoC.

Dead Metal wrote:Hasbro wrote up the new aligned bible as something new, a new starting off point to be used from now on, if they say it's not connected to G1 then it damn well isn't.

Well I disagree, as Hasbro didn't make the games up themselves.

Dead Metal wrote:So just cos it's inconsistant means it voids HAsbro's word?
Cool, that means that every episode of the old G1 cartoon are their own continuities and have no real connection to each other.

In a narrow sense, but I don't mean that narrow of a sense. If that were true, certain chapters of Exodus would be in separate continuities with other chapters. I'm merely referring to major events, like how and when Megatron met Starscream, which is different in Exodus compared to the WFC meeting.

Dead Metal wrote:Almost every incarnation of G1 has had its own history via stories set in those times or flashbacks, or even history footage from those times.
WFC jives with non of them.

Not to you, at least.

Dead Metal wrote:It does, because you're trying to make it fit in.

I'm not "trying" to fit anything in anywhere. I give credit to where credit is due, and I care about the truth. You seem to want to disregard one official word for another... I wish to accept both, if they weren't in contradiction.

Dead Metal wrote:This is where the point from earlier comes into play, you know the one where you state that what the creators say is irrelevant. How come Matt Tieger has more validly to you than the guys whose work and ideas it's based off? Remember, WFC and FOC are adaptations of the same source material as Exodus and Exiles.

WFC and FoC were meant to be based from G1. This is what Matt Tieger wanted.

Dead Metal wrote:It's not open-minded, it's insane. You can't make something fit for something it wasn't intended to. Hey how about we'll throw in the idea that WFC can also be shared by the Movie universe, although the movies and their material completely contradict it.

It's not insane. Again, you simply just don't understand it.

Dead Metal wrote:But hey, we're all open-minded here who says that WFC doesn't branch out into Prime, G1, Movie, RID, Armada, hell it could actually also be the back story to Ghostbusters and Go-Bots.

Because it wasn't meant to be a prequel to anything except G1.

Open-mindedness does not mean you should accept every viewpoint no matter how irrational. It means accepting evidence, and avoiding faith, which by definition, is a belief in something in spite of contradicting evidence.

Dead Metal wrote:No no no no, I at first too though that WFC was a new G1, but it doesn't fit at all.
Adding to that that Tieger is always so eager to say "This is the first time that the history of the Transformers had been told" further proves that this can't be G1.
The G1 continuities have their own histories, that have all been told, heck the histories are part of their incarnations. That alone completely negates this as being the back story to any version of G1 ever.

If assuming you're correct, then the contradiction there would be that Exodus too is telling of the same history, thus still rendering that untrue.

I'm not going to jump to a conclusion and assume what he means though, because I don't know.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, trying to figure out where something fits while ignoring the facts laid down by the frigen owners and creators is being unreasonable.

Indeed it is, I agree 100%. But Matt Tieger is a creator of the work in question, so by that, he should count too.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, that line of just taking faith and believing your side of the argument based on it, actually makes you the looser of the argument, you should look up what faith means before you try to use it as an argument winner.

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]I have no faith. If I'm presented with enough evidence, I'll believe the evidence provided. But if two contradicting evidences are provided, I'm not just going to cling to one of them.


I'll ask you this: Do you think that what Matt Tieger says should be taken as official? Why or why not?

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:No it's only my conclusion because it comes from the people who make Transformers. I mean how can you just completely ignore the word of those who are responsible for the thing we're debating here?
That's like going up to a family and argue against them belonging together, just because you first thought that their children where those of the neighbours.

This part right here demonstrates that you don't understand my position on this. Your analogy is far from accurate.

First of all, I'm not ignoring what Hasbro is saying. I'm merely acknowledging what Matt Tieger(you know, the one who's in charge of creating the WFC/FoC games), and considering his word to be just as official as, say, Aaron Archer, when it comes to WFC and FoC.

Here he clearly states that it's for the new universe going forward.

You also have to take into account that in the video where he says it kinda leads into G1, that the guy he was talking to has no idea of what Prime is.

Dead Metal wrote:Hasbro wrote up the new aligned bible as something new, a new starting off point to be used from now on, if they say it's not connected to G1 then it damn well isn't.

Well I disagree, as Hasbro didn't make the games up themselves.

They did however create the Aligned continuity "Bible", of which WFC and FOC is an adaptation of.
The only times Matt mentions G1 is in explanations about the designs and inspiration, and well to better make people understand what he's talking about.

Dead Metal wrote:So just cos it's inconsistant means it voids HAsbro's word?
Cool, that means that every episode of the old G1 cartoon are their own continuities and have no real connection to each other.

In a narrow sense, but I don't mean that narrow of a sense. If that were true, certain chapters of Exodus would be in separate continuities with other chapters. I'm merely referring to major events, like how and when Megatron met Starscream, which is different in Exodus compared to the WFC meeting.

Yes, Exodus is also inconsistent in and of itself, Starscream being introduced as a Scientist and then later somehow lacking scientific knowledge.

Simply put, that's what you get when different teams work on the same material, take a look at Maximum Carnage if you want another good example of inconsistencies in a continuity.

Dead Metal wrote:Almost every incarnation of G1 has had its own history via stories set in those times or flashbacks, or even history footage from those times.
WFC jives with non of them.

Not to you, at least.

Oh but to you? Tell me more.

Dead Metal wrote:It does, because you're trying to make it fit in.

I'm not "trying" to fit anything in anywhere. I give credit to where credit is due, and I care about the truth. You seem to want to disregard one official word for another... I wish to accept both, if they weren't in contradiction.

As said before, Matt Tieger said himself that it's for the new material.

Dead Metal wrote:This is where the point from earlier comes into play, you know the one where you state that what the creators say is irrelevant. How come Matt Tieger has more validly to you than the guys whose work and ideas it's based off? Remember, WFC and FOC are adaptations of the same source material as Exodus and Exiles.

WFC and FoC were meant to be based from G1. This is what Matt Tieger wanted.

Not what Hasbro wanted, and seeing how the games are simply adaptations of the Prime universe backstory written by Hasbro, well.

Also, where do you get this from that Tieger wanted it that way, from that one interview, while ignoring all other interviews and press releases Tieger had?

Dead Metal wrote:It's not open-minded, it's insane. You can't make something fit for something it wasn't intended to. Hey how about we'll throw in the idea that WFC can also be shared by the Movie universe, although the movies and their material completely contradict it.

It's not insane. Again, you simply just don't understand it.

Then try to make me understand, tell me exactly how all previous G1 fiction allows for the existence of WFC and FOC as their history.

Dead Metal wrote:But hey, we're all open-minded here who says that WFC doesn't branch out into Prime, G1, Movie, RID, Armada, hell it could actually also be the back story to Ghostbusters and Go-Bots.

Because it wasn't meant to be a prequel to anything except G1.

Wrong, it was commissioned as the back story for Aligned, you're trying to make it fit for both, which is trying to keep the cake while also eating it.

How about you prove to me that WFC isn't also the back story to the Movies, Armada and Ghostbusters?
Just because you don't understand my point that goes against official word doesn't make it any less valid.

Open-mindedness does not mean you should accept every viewpoint no matter how irrational. It means accepting evidence, and avoiding faith, which by definition, is a belief in something in spite of contradicting evidence.

So if you know what faith means, why did you say that I needed faith to believe your point?
How about the contradicting evidence of this being in G1? Or wait, no that doesn't count for you does it.

Dead Metal wrote:No no no no, I at first too though that WFC was a new G1, but it doesn't fit at all.
Adding to that that Tieger is always so eager to say "This is the first time that the history of the Transformers had been told" further proves that this can't be G1.
The G1 continuities have their own histories, that have all been told, heck the histories are part of their incarnations. That alone completely negates this as being the back story to any version of G1 ever.

If assuming you're correct, then the contradiction there would be that Exodus too is telling of the same history, thus still rendering that untrue.

Yes it's a telling of the same history, and they both contradict each other, this is due to them being made at the same time by different people, using older/ never versions of the same material. Just like comic and novel adaptations of Movies, they have to be released at about the same time as the movie they're based on so they work with older scripts, and very often they won't get any updated material.

I'm not going to jump to a conclusion and assume what he means though, because I don't know.

But you already have, in fact that's your rebuttal to a lot of my points.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, trying to figure out where something fits while ignoring the facts laid down by the frigen owners and creators is being unreasonable.

Indeed it is, I agree 100%. But Matt Tieger is a creator of the work in question, so by that, he should count too.

Again, that was one interview, with someone who only knows the old stuff and the movies, out of many official interviews and statements.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, that line of just taking faith and believing your side of the argument based on it, actually makes you the looser of the argument, you should look up what faith means before you try to use it as an argument winner.

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]I have no faith. If I'm presented with enough evidence, I'll believe the evidence provided. But if two contradicting evidences are provided, I'm not just going to cling to one of them.
[/quote]
There is no evidence that this is part of G1, unless a new G1 universe shows up and uses WFC as its history.
There is also the special G1 download pack, that comes with G1 skins, you know the one that's advertised with "relive history with the G1 pack".
If this would fit in or bee the back story to G1, wouldn't it be advertised as "Earth-mode pack"?

I'll ask you this: Do you think that what Matt Tieger says should be taken as official? Why or why not?

Yes it should be, but don't forget the times he states it's for the new universe, oh wait then again the creators of BW intended "Welcome to the Darkside" to be a Star Wars reference and not the name of the ship, and "Unicron Spawn" to be an insult ala "Son of a B**ch", but look what happened to those.

Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

Sabrblade wrote:Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

lolz, there's nothing intellectual about it.
It's just two people getting angry about something silly.

Dead Metal wrote:Here he clearly states that it's for the new universe going forward.

Dead Metal wrote:As said before, Matt Tieger said himself that it's for the new material.

Of course. But it seems as though Hasbro is forcing Matt and his team to adhere to Aligned in FoC, when originally, they were going for a more G1ish universe.

Dead Metal wrote:You also have to take into account that in the video where he says it kinda leads into G1, that the guy he was talking to has no idea of what Prime is.

Why? Unless there was proof that was relevant, it has no bearing on the issue. If he was trying to "dumb it down", there's no actual evidence for it. Merely your assumption.

Dead Metal wrote:They did however create the Aligned continuity "Bible", of which WFC and FOC is an adaptation of.
The only times Matt mentions G1 is in explanations about the designs and inspiration, and well to better make people understand what he's talking about.

Matt don't mention Aligned any more than that either though.

Dead Metal wrote:Simply put, that's what you get when different teams work on the same material, take a look at Maximum Carnage if you want another good example of inconsistencies in a continuity.

Sorry, that isn't an argument for WFC/FoC being strictly in the Prime universe. Yes, works with entirely different art styles and major inconsistencies to be part of the same universe. But the difference is who is deciding what's what. Is it the company running the franchise? Or is it the author, creator, or orchestrator of the specific work in question? Simply put: In this case, you're favoring the former, and I'm favoring the latter.

But it can get more complicated than that. If the company forces the creator of the fiction to adhere to the universal continuity, disregarding the creator's intent and any inconsistencies in the continuity it would create, it creates a rift in the creator's continuity as the creator's ideas are forced to turn direction.

Not to mention that some terms when dealing with continuity are vague at best. Many officials at Hasbro might consider all "G1" universes in one universe, despite different authors/creators, vast inconsistencies and storytellings between works, and different styles and compliments of characters.

Dead Metal wrote:Not what Hasbro wanted, and seeing how the games are simply adaptations of the Prime universe backstory written by Hasbro, well.

But... they weren't. High Moon wrote the stories for the game and submits them to Hasbro for approval. That's why we're even getting Dinobots in FoC. If it was just up to Hasbro, they wouldn't have even been considered.

Dead Metal wrote:Also, where do you get this from that Tieger wanted it that way, from that one interview, while ignoring all other interviews and press releases Tieger had?

I'm not ignoring anything. My conclusion is based on his statements in all of his interviews.

Dead Metal wrote:Then try to make me understand, tell me exactly how all previous G1 fiction allows for the existence of WFC and FOC as their history.

You misunderstand the nature on different continuities within a continuity family. They don't 'allow' each other to be grouped with them. What makes them grouped into continuity families are merely aesthetical, plot, and character similarities with each other. Timeline inconsistencies usually warrant separation by universes.

Dead Metal wrote:Then try to make me understand, tell me exactly how all previous G1 fiction allows for the existence of WFC and FOC as their history.

Now you're putting words into my mouth. I never said that WFC/FoC fits anywhere into existing G1 continuities. I said they might fit into a G1 continuity.

Dead Metal wrote:Wrong, it was commissioned as the back story for Aligned, you're trying to make it fit for both, which is trying to keep the cake while also eating it.

I'm not trying to make anything do anything. I'm merely acknowledging more facts than you are.

Dead Metal wrote:How about you prove to me that WFC isn't also the back story to the Movies, Armada and Ghostbusters?

I don't have to. You don't prove negatives in that sense. Besides, WFC wasn't mentioned to be a bakground story to Armada or Ghostbusters. It was only mentioned to be a backstory to G1 and Prime.

Dead Metal wrote:Just because you don't understand my point that goes against official word doesn't make it any less valid.

But you misunderstand that I'm trying to go against Hasbro's word. You're the one that's trying to go against official word by disregarding Matt Tieger's explanations as mere G1 references. I'm willing to accept both Hasbro's and Tieger's explanations, but they're in contradiction. Which is why I offered the explanation that WFC/FoC might be both a G1 and a Prime backstory.

Dead Metal wrote:So if you know what faith means, why did you say that I needed faith to believe your point?

I did not say that.

Dead Metal wrote:How about the contradicting evidence of this being in G1? Or wait, no that doesn't count for you does it.

There is no contradicting evidence to WFC or FoC being in a Primax-cluster(G1) universe, nor does it contradict being in an Aligned universe. But in the same universe as the G1 or Prime cartoons or Exodus/G1 comics? There are plenty of contradictions there.

Dead Metal wrote:Yes it's a telling of the same history, and they both contradict each other, this is due to them being made at the same time by different people, using older/ never versions of the same material. Just like comic and novel adaptations of Movies, they have to be released at about the same time as the movie they're based on so they work with older scripts, and very often they won't get any updated material.

Movies and novel adaptions are always different continuities, as far as I know.

Dead Metal wrote:But you already have, in fact that's your rebuttal to a lot of my points.

Please point out where I have jumped to any conclusions.

Dead Metal wrote:Again, that was one interview, with someone who only knows the old stuff and the movies, out of many official interviews and statements.

That was an example of one interview. There are others. Another such example is this.

Dead Metal wrote:There is no evidence that this is part of G1, unless a new G1 universe shows up and uses WFC as its history.

That's exactly the point I've been trying to make all this time. What are you arguing about if you agree with me?

Dead Metal wrote:There is also the special G1 download pack, that comes with G1 skins, you know the one that's advertised with "relive history with the G1 pack".
If this would fit in or bee the back story to G1, wouldn't it be advertised as "Earth-mode pack"?

Irrelevant.

Dead Metal wrote:Yes it should be, but don't forget the times he states it's for the new universe, oh wait then again the creators of BW intended "Welcome to the Darkside" to be a Star Wars reference and not the name of the ship, and "Unicron Spawn" to be an insult ala "Son of a B**ch", but look what happened to those.

Now you're being nonsensical. What's wrong with WFC being an introduction into a new G1 universe? Is it that hard to accept as a possibility?

Sabrblade wrote:Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

We really should make a thread specifically for this though, I feel bad about hijacking poor Metroplex's discussion thread.

But as long as Dead Metal stays civil and don't whip out more unintellectual insults, I'll be fine with it.

Sabrblade wrote:Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

Haha you said it!

Not to be a third party, but I thought WfC/FoC was supposed to be a prequel to the Prime continuity, but mainly G1-inspired and it was as simple as that...? Or do I need to watch more Prime?

(Anyway! If anyone has the final word in this, surely it's Encyclopedic Teletraan of Sabrblade...? XD)

Dead Metal wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

lolz, there's nothing intellectual about it.
It's just two people getting angry about something silly.

sure there is! Within all the back-and-forth you guys are doing are some very smart points each of you are making.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Not what Hasbro wanted, and seeing how the games are simply adaptations of the Prime universe backstory written by Hasbro, well.

But... they weren't. High Moon wrote the stories for the game and submits them to Hasbro for approval. That's why we're even getting Dinobots in FoC. If it was just up to Hasbro, they wouldn't have even been considered.

I think the stories of the games are more of a joint-effort between High Moon and Hasbro, with High Moon providing the more specific plot details, and Hasbro giving the basic overall plot and some pointers on how it's supposed to abide by the established timeline of the Binder. Though, now that I think about it, this would be a good question to ask at the next BotCon or whatever convention next has a FOC panel.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Yes it's a telling of the same history, and they both contradict each other, this is due to them being made at the same time by different people, using older/ never versions of the same material. Just like comic and novel adaptations of Movies, they have to be released at about the same time as the movie they're based on so they work with older scripts, and very often they won't get any updated material.

Movies and novel adaptions are always different continuities, as far as I know.

In the specific cases of the Bay movies, I think the way those movies and their comics and novel adaptations are treated is that, while the final cut versions of the movies themselves are treated as the most canon versions, anything in the adaptations that didn't make it into the films that doesn't contradict the films themselves (like certain details about the Harvester in ROTF) can also be considered canon to the films' continuity, while anything in the adaptations that is in conflict with the films (like Barricade outright dying in the Movie 1 comic) is definitely not canon to the films. Though, this is still a shaky idea, but it does better help the continuity of the films work with their prequel/sequel comics.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Again, that was one interview, with someone who only knows the old stuff and the movies, out of many official interviews and statements.

That was an example of one interview. There are others. Another such example is this.

What immediately follows after his saying that it's grounded in the G1 cartoon makes it sound like means that the game's character aesthetics are grounded in the G1 cartoon, meaning that the designs (rather than the entire game) are directly taken from the G1 cartoon and then, as he says, modernized to get the new look we have now.

orangeitis wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Keep going, guys. This kind of intellectual discussion is very entertaining.

We really should make a thread specifically for this though, I feel bad about hijacking poor Metroplex's discussion thread.

But as long as Dead Metal stays civil and don't whip out more unintellectual insults, I'll be fine with it.

No worries. Though, whenever such a thread is ever made, it never gets as investing as this discussion has become, so I'm enjoying it as is.

Swiftknife24 wrote:Haha you said it!

Not to be a third party, but I thought WfC/FoC was supposed to be a prequel to the Prime continuity, but mainly G1-inspired and it was as simple as that...? Or do I need to watch more Prime?

(Anyway! If anyone has the final word in this, surely it's Encyclopedic Teletraan of Sabrblade...? XD)

Now this is kinda unfair and I usualy don't like doing it, but since Sabreblade has brought up some of the points I was going to bring up, I will simply elaborate.

Sabrblade wrote:

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Not what Hasbro wanted, and seeing how the games are simply adaptations of the Prime universe backstory written by Hasbro, well.

But... they weren't. High Moon wrote the stories for the game and submits them to Hasbro for approval. That's why we're even getting Dinobots in FoC. If it was just up to Hasbro, they wouldn't have even been considered.

I think the stories of the games are more of a joint-effort between High Moon and Hasbro, with High Moon providing the more specific plot details, and Hasbro giving the basic overall plot and some pointers on how it's supposed to abide by the established timeline of the Binder. Though, now that I think about it, this would be a good question to ask at the next BotCon or whatever convention next has a FOC panel.

That is indeed how this works, Hasbro submits a story and bible, highlighting what they want to have in the game, High Moon adapts it and submits changes. Some of which make it in others don't.

orangeitis wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Yes it's a telling of the same history, and they both contradict each other, this is due to them being made at the same time by different people, using older/ never versions of the same material. Just like comic and novel adaptations of Movies, they have to be released at about the same time as the movie they're based on so they work with older scripts, and very often they won't get any updated material.

Movies and novel adaptions are always different continuities, as far as I know.

In the specific cases of the Bay movies, I think the way those movies and their comics and novel adaptations are treated is that, while the final cut versions of the movies themselves are treated as the most canon versions, anything in the adaptations that didn't make it into the films that doesn't contradict the films themselves (like certain details about the Harvester in ROTF) can also be considered canon to the films' continuity, while anything in the adaptations that is in conflict with the films (like Barricade outright dying in the Movie 1 comic) is definitely not canon to the films. Though, this is still a shaky idea, but it does better help the continuity of the films work with their prequel/sequel comics.

The Transformers Movie comics are all made to be in continuity with the movies, which is why the writers always work closely with idw. Sadly the comics have dead lines to adhere to in terms of getting work done while movies can be changed very close to the release date. The first TF movie for instance received its final cut two weeks before the premier, a point in which the comics had already been trade form.
Reign of Starscream even went through 4 rewrites before the movie team gave the final OK, they even referenced it in ROTF and changed Starscreams character model to match that of the comic.

Dead Metal wrote:But you already have, in fact that's your rebuttal to a lot of my points.

Please point out where I have jumped to any conclusions.

Dead Metal wrote:Again, that was one interview, with someone who only knows the old stuff and the movies, out of many official interviews and statements.

That was an example of one interview. There are others. Another such example is this.

What immediately follows after his saying that it's grounded in the G1 cartoon makes it sound like means that the game's character aesthetics are grounded in the G1 cartoon, meaning that the designs (rather than the entire game) are directly taken from the G1 cartoon and then, as he says, modernized to get the new look we have now.

Firstly, you're jumping to conclusions by misunderstanding what is being said and then taking things out of context and arranging them with a seed of truth to justify your beliefs, and make them more believable, which is the exact same thing conspiracy theorists do. Which brings us back to the Lizardmen.

Ah that video, OK let me quote what he says:

Matt Tieger wrote:Honestly, this is the game that I've been waiting 25 years for to play. It's very nostalgic in that it's grounded in the Generation 1, G1, 1984 cartoon. We took a lot of our colours, feel, and style for the characters when we designed them and then modernised those. So we figured out what made an Autobot an Autobot and a Decepticon a Decepticon, and we figured out the styles for those but it all had to be grounded in that cartoon feel - but modern, and realistic, and gritty.

He's talking about the design aspect of the game, here's another video in which he elaborates on this:

Design team including Tieger wrote:What we first did - was a lot of research. And we came up with a story that was always touching back to G1, that cartoon from the '80s, right? And made sure that that was our primary touchstone, and then we drew inspiration from other places but, that was our cornerstone.

And we went back to the Generation 1 cartoon, and the Generation 1 movie, and then there where other influences like Tron, and Bladerunner, and some of the textual sciencefiction stuff that we tried to bring in like Aliens.

He's talking about feeling and the design style, he's not talking about this being part of it. So if you try to use him talking about the feel and design of the game being similar and based on G1 as your argument for it being G1, well you're also putting this in the same universes as Tron, Aliens, and Blade Runner.

^ Some quote tag code needs a fixin' above for the movie response.

Sabrblade wrote:^ Some quote tag code needs a fixin' above for the movie response.

I know, you broke it in the first place, I've already tried 3 times but to no avail.