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DeathReviews wrote:And in some measure, it makes me resentful that they forced price point hikes on some figures to dump in these weapons, which many of us didn't even really want, and perhaps diminish the engineering on those figures because they thought the weapons made them 'good enough'.
DeathReviews wrote:The Energon weapon thing may have been a neat concept, but it just doesn't work out that well in real life. There's the fact that they have to force some figures to take weapons which don't make any sense (like Blitzwing), just to carry on the gimmick.
And there's the fact that these weapons just don't 'combine' well. You can jam them all together sure, but they don't look good. And any combo weapon you make out of them would be unwieldy, and ineffective to the point of mockery if you tried to actually use it. Yes, they're toy weapons, so real life doesn't matter. But they're at least meant to allow SOME suspension of disbelief. I don't look at any of the combos in that diagram, and say to myself, "Yeah, that could work".
And in some measure, it makes me resentful that they forced price point hikes on some figures to dump in these weapons, which many of us didn't even really want, and perhaps diminish the engineering on those figures because they thought the weapons made them 'good enough'.
o.supreme wrote:So I guess we'll call this Minerva from Victory as opposed Masterforce. Anyway, looks cool. However, I am a bit surprised. I don't think we ever had confirmation Red Alert ever showed up in a Walgreens store, it was online only ( Pulse very limited, and occasionally on Walgreens.com). Kind of disappointing since I had been able to find all the others going back to TR Brainstorm fairly easily.
Sabrblade wrote:It's basically IDW2 Minerva, who is not a Headmaster.
AcademyofDrX wrote:DeathReviews wrote:And in some measure, it makes me resentful that they forced price point hikes on some figures to dump in these weapons, which many of us didn't even really want, and perhaps diminish the engineering on those figures because they thought the weapons made them 'good enough'.
That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works
AcademyofDrX wrote:DeathReviews wrote:And in some measure, it makes me resentful that they forced price point hikes on some figures to dump in these weapons, which many of us didn't even really want, and perhaps diminish the engineering on those figures because they thought the weapons made them 'good enough'.
That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works
You're right, that's not how it works. And I thought I wrote it clearly enough in the article. It's the other way around. None of the engineering is diminished, it is instead improved by having a leader budget for a voyager sized toy. The gauntlets are just there to help sell the figure to people who need a visual aid to substantiate paying leader prices.
DeathReviews wrote:Based on the size and engineering seen in videos, that seems to be all it's worth. Instead, we have to pay leader price for a voyager figure (again) and have our intelligence insulted with the notion that the inclusion of these gauntlet weapons somehow makes Blitzwing "worth" the price of a Leader figure.
DeathReviews wrote:You're right, that's not how it works. And I thought I wrote it clearly enough in the article. It's the other way around. None of the engineering is diminished, it is instead improved by having a leader budget for a voyager sized toy. The gauntlets are just there to help sell the figure to people who need a visual aid to substantiate paying leader prices.
I'll allow that it 'works' in that it represents what Hasbro is actually DOING. But it doesn't 'work' for many of us in the sense that we're being asked to believe that figures like Blitzwing are 'improved' by mere reason of the inclusion of these gauntlet pieces.
I (for one) would rather have paid voyager price for Blitzwing, because based on the size and engineering, that seems to be all it's worth. In exchange for that, I would have been perfectly happy to live without the energon gauntlets. Instead, we have to pay leader price for a voyager figure (again) and have our intelligence insulted with the notion that the inclusion of these gauntlet weapons somehow makes Blitzwing worth the price of a Leader figure. The only way I could see myself using those silly things is if they could be fitted onto Mensaor's forearms somehow and become proper gloves. Don't see how that's possible though.
Rtron wrote:DeathReviews wrote:You're right, that's not how it works. And I thought I wrote it clearly enough in the article. It's the other way around. None of the engineering is diminished, it is instead improved by having a leader budget for a voyager sized toy. The gauntlets are just there to help sell the figure to people who need a visual aid to substantiate paying leader prices.
I'll allow that it 'works' in that it represents what Hasbro is actually DOING. But it doesn't 'work' for many of us in the sense that we're being asked to believe that figures like Blitzwing are 'improved' by mere reason of the inclusion of these gauntlet pieces.
I (for one) would rather have paid voyager price for Blitzwing, because based on the size and engineering, that seems to be all it's worth. In exchange for that, I would have been perfectly happy to live without the energon gauntlets. Instead, we have to pay leader price for a voyager figure (again) and have our intelligence insulted with the notion that the inclusion of these gauntlet weapons somehow makes Blitzwing worth the price of a Leader figure. The only way I could see myself using those silly things is if they could be fitted onto Mensaor's forearms somehow and become proper gloves. Don't see how that's possible though.
You don't lower Blitzwing to voyager price just by removing the gauntlets. I can't say I know how Hasbro specifically budgets, but my educated guess is that those gauntlets are not what makes that figure leader price. Blitzwing's parts count and weight for the figure itself is probably between voyager and leader, with parts count being very close to a "normal" leader. There's now way not including the gloves makes him suddenly a voyager, as they only represent 4 parts. That's less than a Core class worth of parts, and they probably don't represent that much weight percentage either.
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:Rtron wrote:DeathReviews wrote:You're right, that's not how it works. And I thought I wrote it clearly enough in the article. It's the other way around. None of the engineering is diminished, it is instead improved by having a leader budget for a voyager sized toy. The gauntlets are just there to help sell the figure to people who need a visual aid to substantiate paying leader prices.
I'll allow that it 'works' in that it represents what Hasbro is actually DOING. But it doesn't 'work' for many of us in the sense that we're being asked to believe that figures like Blitzwing are 'improved' by mere reason of the inclusion of these gauntlet pieces.
I (for one) would rather have paid voyager price for Blitzwing, because based on the size and engineering, that seems to be all it's worth. In exchange for that, I would have been perfectly happy to live without the energon gauntlets. Instead, we have to pay leader price for a voyager figure (again) and have our intelligence insulted with the notion that the inclusion of these gauntlet weapons somehow makes Blitzwing worth the price of a Leader figure. The only way I could see myself using those silly things is if they could be fitted onto Mensaor's forearms somehow and become proper gloves. Don't see how that's possible though.
You don't lower Blitzwing to voyager price just by removing the gauntlets. I can't say I know how Hasbro specifically budgets, but my educated guess is that those gauntlets are not what makes that figure leader price. Blitzwing's parts count and weight for the figure itself is probably between voyager and leader, with parts count being very close to a "normal" leader. There's now way not including the gloves makes him suddenly a voyager, as they only represent 4 parts. That's less than a Core class worth of parts, and they probably don't represent that much weight percentage either.
I bolded and underlined the crucial part here. When figures in the end fall between two standard price points, Hasbro will always go for the higher one, but adding things to make it seem more worth while isn't necessarily a bad step to take even if it's to "cover up"
Hasbro's no stranger to that you know: when they imported Takara's Car Robots line for RiD 2001, Takara's liberal pricing made quite a few figures not fit with Hasbro's set price points, like Wedge and the Bullet Trains. Wedge was cheaper than Deluxe, but got bumped up to Deluxe anyway, and the trains got bumped to Mega.
Rtron wrote:Jelze Bunnycat wrote:Rtron wrote:DeathReviews wrote:You're right, that's not how it works. And I thought I wrote it clearly enough in the article. It's the other way around. None of the engineering is diminished, it is instead improved by having a leader budget for a voyager sized toy. The gauntlets are just there to help sell the figure to people who need a visual aid to substantiate paying leader prices.
I'll allow that it 'works' in that it represents what Hasbro is actually DOING. But it doesn't 'work' for many of us in the sense that we're being asked to believe that figures like Blitzwing are 'improved' by mere reason of the inclusion of these gauntlet pieces.
I (for one) would rather have paid voyager price for Blitzwing, because based on the size and engineering, that seems to be all it's worth. In exchange for that, I would have been perfectly happy to live without the energon gauntlets. Instead, we have to pay leader price for a voyager figure (again) and have our intelligence insulted with the notion that the inclusion of these gauntlet weapons somehow makes Blitzwing worth the price of a Leader figure. The only way I could see myself using those silly things is if they could be fitted onto Mensaor's forearms somehow and become proper gloves. Don't see how that's possible though.
You don't lower Blitzwing to voyager price just by removing the gauntlets. I can't say I know how Hasbro specifically budgets, but my educated guess is that those gauntlets are not what makes that figure leader price. Blitzwing's parts count and weight for the figure itself is probably between voyager and leader, with parts count being very close to a "normal" leader. There's now way not including the gloves makes him suddenly a voyager, as they only represent 4 parts. That's less than a Core class worth of parts, and they probably don't represent that much weight percentage either.
I bolded and underlined the crucial part here. When figures in the end fall between two standard price points, Hasbro will always go for the higher one, but adding things to make it seem more worth while isn't necessarily a bad step to take even if it's to "cover up"
Hasbro's no stranger to that you know: when they imported Takara's Car Robots line for RiD 2001, Takara's liberal pricing made quite a few figures not fit with Hasbro's set price points, like Wedge and the Bullet Trains. Wedge was cheaper than Deluxe, but got bumped up to Deluxe anyway, and the trains got bumped to Mega.
Exactly, otherwise, they'd be losing money on the figure. In this case, they'd be losing money on one of the most expensive figures of the "normal" classes. Could Hasbro tank that money loss? I have no idea, but that's not how ANY business works, specially not corporations. They're not going to lose even a single usd per figure just because the design fell in-between classes.
Till-all-R1 wrote:JazZeke wrote:Yeah, aside from Blitzing's silly gloves, the gimmick isn't an intrusive one. It may dip into the plastic budget, but aside from that the toys don't have to be engineered around them like Mini-Cons or combining does.
Seems this "gimmick" was designed for Legacy Line so I can assume that an obligator reissue/repaint of Blitzwing is going to happen with normal hands within the next two years. lol
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:
Worth noting is that this phenomenon only props up because of their focus on accurate robot mode cartoon scale: as the characters are different heights, their figures end up in different sizes that may or not coincide with any set price points. If you look at other lines, you may find that they are sized to price point, but not current (WFC and later) Generations.
You don't lower Blitzwing to voyager price just by removing the gauntlets. I can't say I know how Hasbro specifically budgets, but my educated guess is that those gauntlets are not what makes that figure leader price. Blitzwing's parts count and weight for the figure itself is probably between voyager and leader, with parts count being very close to a "normal" leader. There's no way not including the gloves makes him suddenly a voyager, as they only represent 4 parts. That's less than a Core class worth of parts, and they probably don't represent that much weight percentage either.
If I was rich, I'd start a youtube channel exclusively dedicated to weighting, taking apart, and counting the parts and plastic distribution of every figure that comes out. Given there's so much people (rightly) worried about what they're getting for their money, it seems like an endeavor that could gain a good bit of traction.
Rtron wrote:If I was rich, I'd start a youtube channel exclusively dedicated to weighting, taking apart, and counting the parts and plastic distribution of every figure that comes out. Given there's so much people (rightly) worried about what they're getting for their money, it seems like an endeavor that could gain a good bit of traction.
Jelze Bunnycat wrote:Rtron wrote:Jelze Bunnycat wrote:Rtron wrote:You don't lower Blitzwing to voyager price just by removing the gauntlets. I can't say I know how Hasbro specifically budgets, but my educated guess is that those gauntlets are not what makes that figure leader price. Blitzwing's parts count and weight for the figure itself is probably between voyager and leader, with parts count being very close to a "normal" leader. There's now way not including the gloves makes him suddenly a voyager, as they only represent 4 parts. That's less than a Core class worth of parts, and they probably don't represent that much weight percentage either.
I bolded and underlined the crucial part here. When figures in the end fall between two standard price points, Hasbro will always go for the higher one, but adding things to make it seem more worth while isn't necessarily a bad step to take even if it's to "cover up"
Hasbro's no stranger to that you know: when they imported Takara's Car Robots line for RiD 2001, Takara's liberal pricing made quite a few figures not fit with Hasbro's set price points, like Wedge and the Bullet Trains. Wedge was cheaper than Deluxe, but got bumped up to Deluxe anyway, and the trains got bumped to Mega.
Exactly, otherwise, they'd be losing money on the figure. In this case, they'd be losing money on one of the most expensive figures of the "normal" classes. Could Hasbro tank that money loss? I have no idea, but that's not how ANY business works, specially not corporations. They're not going to lose even a single usd per figure just because the design fell in-between classes.
Worth noting is that this phenomenon only props up because of their focus on accurate robot mode cartoon scale: as the characters are different heights, their figures end up in different sizes that may or not coincide with any set price points. If you look at other lines, you may find that they are sized to price point, but not current (WFC and later) Generations.
Tuned Agent wrote:A bit of a tangent, but I do worry that the "in between classes" figures are going to end up lowering fan's standards over time. At what point will the not-quite-a-class figure just become accepted as the standard for that class? When ER Cliff and Netflix Bee came out, people complained about their size, but eventually warmed up to them because they felt complex, weren't hollow, were slathered with paint, and had a ton of accessories. Then Huffer comes along, who's simple, has very hollow legs, and has an average amount paint and accessories, but nobody batted and eye. Bee and Cliff were worth deluxe money, so obviously Huffer is too, right? Classes are just price points now, after all. I don't know if an overall lowering of standards will ever really happen, but it's food for thought.
Also, a tad off topic, but there are some businesses/corporations that willingly sell certain products for a loss, usually in order to encourage more sales of other products with higher profit margins. A good example are Sony and Microsoft with the PS5 and Series X, which are sold at a loss to make the consoles more competitively priced and affordable, which in turn encourages more people to buy more games (which is where the real money is made). Not really applicable to transformers of course.
ZeroWolf wrote:Till-all-R1 wrote:JazZeke wrote:Yeah, aside from Blitzing's silly gloves, the gimmick isn't an intrusive one. It may dip into the plastic budget, but aside from that the toys don't have to be engineered around them like Mini-Cons or combining does.
Seems this "gimmick" was designed for Legacy Line so I can assume that an obligator reissue/repaint of Blitzwing is going to happen with normal hands within the next two years. lol
Blitzwing has normal hands, the gauntlets are accessories that you don't need to display with Blitzy if you don't want.
primalxconvoy wrote:From the same people that tried to make non-Headmaster TF characters in Titans Return into Headmasters, comes a Headmaster character that isn't a Headmaster.
As for Sh*tswing's gauntlets; they're talking out of their @rses. They could have EASILY added covers for the tank to cover the gap at the front and/or part of the awful faux cockpit. It could easily be used as a shield too. Then, add some wing extenders, or even, just better engineering and more plastic to make a half-decent figure.
Money saved, Hasblo, do better.
ZeroWolf wrote:primalxconvoy wrote:From the same people that tried to make non-Headmaster TF characters in Titans Return into Headmasters, comes a Headmaster character that isn't a Headmaster.
As for Sh*tswing's gauntlets; they're talking out of their @rses. They could have EASILY added covers for the tank to cover the gap at the front and/or part of the awful faux cockpit. It could easily be used as a shield too. Then, add some wing extenders, or even, just better engineering and more plastic to make a half-decent figure.
Money saved, Hasblo, do better.As pointed out further up, Minerva isn't a headmaster in Victory nor in the recent comics.
That's not relevant as she WAS a Headmaster in Super God Masterforce and the original toy was also a Headmaster. My point stands.Also that gap in Blitzwing is cartoon accurate, which is sadly what they were going for. Plus as stated, the weapons fit the gimmick which has been present throughout, a rather fun gimmick at that. If you want a better Blitzy, I'm sure hasbro will try again in a few years or so
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