The Energon Pub

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Emerje wrote:I don't really see why Deathsaurus would need to be Commander class, he doesn't need to be that complex. Hasbro said Star Saber was Leader size so a large leader like Grimlock should be enough plus his partners can be sold as Core figures like SS Ravage.

Emerje

That's the keyword here. "size".
We all know that nowadays, it means nothing.

Well to some people size still has some meaning.

No matter what "size" means for yourself, it won't translate to this reality. We will have to deal with scout sized but complex deluxes like SS '07 Jazz, "voyager +" leaders, and complex deluxes sold as voyagers from now on.

I'm honestly fine with it as long that scale is respected and the complexity and quality of the toy reflect the price-point.

Jtprime17 wrote:The case assortments have been updated since my last post in August. Example Galvatron is in wave 1 now. Also prime soundwave was a miscommunication between some retailers. Soundwave it’s actually S Soundwave PR so another package refresh.

Thanks

Emerje wrote:Eh, as far as I'm concerned multiple figures coming together in any way makes a combiner, it doesn't matter how essential or ridiculous their inclusion is. We still call Magnaboss a 3 figure combiner despite Silverbolt being nothing more than decorations and boob canons.

And really, it's silly that people are so hooked up on the arms when the legs are basically the same between both animation models so it's just the arms that are in question. Also since there's a break in Dragstrip where the elbow joint will be we can tell he'll be forming the bulk of the arm, why are we so hooked up on combiner pegs and fists directly inserting into the car?

Because of the elbow joint. It'll look more like a normal combiner than whole cars hanging off his shoulders. I'm looking forward to it, I think the arms with a dedicated elbow joint will look a lot better in the end than the elbow hips and crotch we had in CW.

Emerje

Menasor has long been the gestalt that nobody seems quite sure what to do with. There were just so many things about the Stunticons that didn't 'work'. Either the toys didn't jive with the cartoon model, or the cartoon model never looked like the toys. And that confusion has sort of carried on over the years to this very day.

The G1 gestalt was smaller, and it never looked very well designed. The Motormaster unit wasn't a very good torso, and the smaller cars didn't turn into proper 'limbs', they really were just the car figures, stuck onto the torso. I'm sure the animators for the cartoon show were looking at the toy and thinking 'how the bleep do we make this work?'

And what they came up with was that weird trailer/skeleton with the cars pasted onto it. It bore only superficial resemblance to the Menasor toy, and collectors had to grimace every time they saw the cartoon and were reminded that the figure they owned was little like what was on the screen. Even the animated commercial for the toy showed the Arialbots more than the Stunticons - probably because they wanted to gloss over the fact that the cartoon depiction was nothing like what was being advertised. And you have to admit - the animated Arialbots looked a hekkuvva lot more like their G1 toys than the Stunticons did, and that included their gestalts.

Fast forward to the CW line, when all our old favorite combiners started coming back, and Hasbro winced and said, 'I guess that means we have to do Menasor too'. But they had a problem. G1 Motormaster was a tiny little semi truck with a trailer attached. They couldn't do that, and scale him with the deluxe limbs. So they had to go cab only. Which could have been fine, except that they used the normal robot hips, splayed them out, and covered it with a crotch-shaped panel to make the pelvis. And it didn't work. The proportions are off visually, and the hip ratchets just aren't strong enough to support all that weight. So CW Menasor is a floppy mess that, for all the articulation, can't hold any poses, and must be constantly monitored to make sure it doesn't fall over. The Optimus Maximus and G2 repaints suffer the same problem.

This Legacy/Commander version seems to be their attempt at compromise. They know Menasor got the short end of the stick in CW, so they're giving him sole combiner focus in this line. Yes, it looks like the deluxe limbs will parts-form onto the Commander/trailer skeleton. But as long as the skeleton is rock solid, holds its poses, and is well proportioned? I'm OK with that. Especially if they fix the pelvis so it's solid and functional, not just the voyager hips hidden by a flimsy plastic loincloth. I'll make some compromises with appearance, in exchange for a solid figure with good articulation that can hold it's poses and balance well on a shelf. That appears to be where they're going with this version of Menasor.

I suppose we'll see some leaks of Motormaster soon, and then we can get a better idea of how this Menasor will look and scale. I'll reserve final judgement until then. But I sold my CW Menasor a while back, for the same reasons listed above. Here's hoping this time they make him a set worth collecting.

I mean, Legacy Menasor can't be much worse than CW Menasor, right? I still have the UW version but plan to offload it next year after I've collected the new one.

I'll be pretty damn bummed if Menasor ends up leaning more towards the "cars slapped onto Motormaster" look rather than being properly integrated (Which the cartoon did sometimes, iirc? Makes me wonder why so many 3rd party peeps always go for the poorly animated model.)
But emerje's posts do give me better hope that it'll probably be more integrated than we think - at the very least we won't get the cars slapped onto the arms and legs...I hope.
I personally didn't dislike the CW/UW versions of the Stunticons but even then I'd still much rather have a Motormaster that looks more like his G1 self than a retooled Optimus lol

SpaceEagle wrote:I'll be pretty damn bummed if Menasor ends up leaning more towards the "cars slapped onto Motormaster" look rather than being properly integrated

Then start being bummed since drag strip has been released and he has 0 integration with a main body. He simply splits in half to be pasted on somewhere.

Anyways, about them repacking Wheeljack, I did come across a sentence that put everything in a different perspective. Yes, this is the 3rd release of Wheeljack (who also had a Walmart exclusive Netflix redeco at retail). But is anyone seeing Wheeljack on shelves? My walmart shelves are super well stocked and he is not there. So another release of him at the tail end of the year would just be more product for anyone to buy.

AcademyofDrX wrote:I mean, Legacy Menasor can't be much worse than CW Menasor, right? I still have the UW version but plan to offload it next year after I've collected the new one.

I'm on the fence about selling my UW Menasor...
With the upgrade kits I have for him, he's really not that bad, and imo does a really solid job of what seems like a lot of people's complaints; in some ways it is more visually interesting compared to the G1 animated version. The arm/leg figures aren't just attached to large, blocky bot limbs.
CW overall still holds a solid, positive place for me in TF toy history.
That line had me excited more than any other minus SS86.
Now, I don't see the CW Stunticons as nostalgic as my TF Classics figures (which I don't think I'll ever sell my sealed copies), but this Legacy version is going to have to be lights-out for me to sell my UW Menasor.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, Menasor really needs a complete design overhaul. Objectively the worst looking Decepticon Gestalt (Computron, I'd say is his Autobot "fugly" counterpart).

Meanwhile, any more news on Cybertron Metroplex?

I say repacking Wheeljack is dumb and unneeded. Fewer people that wanted ER Wheeljack missed the original release for him or were unable to get him at the time. And, looking on eBay now, his online prices are still tolerable. Repacking him instead of, say, Sunstreaker - who tends to be FIFTY TO SIXTY DOLLARS these days - is an idiotic waste of a slot.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

chuckdawg1999 wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Emerje wrote:I don't really see why Deathsaurus would need to be Commander class, he doesn't need to be that complex. Hasbro said Star Saber was Leader size so a large leader like Grimlock should be enough plus his partners can be sold as Core figures like SS Ravage.

Emerje

That's the keyword here. "size".
We all know that nowadays, it means nothing.

Well to some people size still has some meaning.

No matter what "size" means for yourself, it won't translate to this reality. We will have to deal with scout sized but complex deluxes like SS '07 Jazz, "voyager +" leaders, and complex deluxes sold as voyagers from now on.

I'm honestly fine with it as long that scale is respected and the complexity and quality of the toy reflect the price-point.

Part of me thinks chuckdawg was actually just making a dirty joke there lol.

SpaceEagle wrote:I personally didn't dislike the CW/UW versions of the Stunticons but even then I'd still much rather have a Motormaster that looks more like his G1 self than a retooled Optimus lol

I also didn't dislike them (the limbs at least, and Motormaster's okay as an individual robot), aside from Drag Strip. And I feel the same about Motormaster, although I'd also be good with a tractor-only one (since his G1 cab looks even dinkier next to the limb Stunticons than WFC Optimus does next to WFC Autobot cars) that made a torso worth a damn. Why of all torsos to bungle did they have to screw up the guy whose combiner uses a sword...

Having seen a review of Dragstrip that's the retail release version, I think there will be some tab on the arm segment of Menasor that triggers the catch on Dragstrip separating the halves. There's no way to press the release on Dragstrip without the use of a spudger or some similar tool.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:Having seen a review of Dragstrip that's the retail release version, I think there will be some tab on the arm segment of Menasor that triggers the catch on Dragstrip separating the halves. There's no way to press the release on Dragstrip without the use of a spudger or some similar tool.

Indeed. There's probably going to be a tab on Meansor's arm to engage the split and maybe activate something on the arm itself, like releasing the hands from the forearm or something, and extending the arm to enable the elbow. Some form of Automorph if you will.

Otherwise, Dragstrip makes no sense since part of him needs to end up on Menasor's shoulder piece and there's no way to activate the button otherwise.

Twincast is the figure from wave 4 I'm looking forward to, I'm good with TR Blaster so I can get Twincast fresh as a new mold to me

I too look forward to Twincast... but not as much as I might.

I am however fully looking forward to Pointblank. And disappointed to not see Sureshot's name in the listings. Couldn't he have been made instead of whatever this "energon monster" rando is? Sureshot would seem a particularly strong choice in my eyes since he could probably have Joyride as a moldmate.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I too look forward to Twincast... but not as much as I might.

I am however fully looking forward to Pointblank. And disappointed to not see Sureshot's name in the listings. Couldn't he have been made instead of whatever this "energon monster" rando is? Sureshot would seem a particularly strong choice in my eyes since he could probably have Joyride as a moldmate.

I'm certain Sureshot will be along soon. I'm expecting that with the exception of combiners, groups or teams will be spread across multiple years. Legacy has very weak theming, so that will help introduce some continuity over time.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:As I've mentioned elsewhere, Menasor really needs a complete design overhaul. Objectively the worst looking Decepticon Gestalt (Computron, I'd say is his Autobot "fugly" counterpart).

Meanwhile, any more news on Cybertron Metroplex?

What more news would you want? We know he's coming, will be available in late summer/early fall, price point will be around the same. we just wait till we get nicer pics and for the toy to be preorderable.

It is admittedly a bit frustrating that Hasbro's marketing department has seemingly been sitting there going "guhhh" when it comes to providing the full pic load for this year's products.

Regarding Menasor's G1 design...



Aside from the unfortunate disposition of the truck cab halves? Not really seeing the ugly.

IMO the only design change Menasor needed was to make the truck cab halves be the kneecaps instead of the buttcheeks - it'd fix his being the runt and let his arm robots have their legs extended like with every other combiner of that system.

FYI, I updated the waves in the news article and in the post on the other page. The only thing "new" is that JTPrime said we are getting another repack: Core Class Megatron.

You know what's funny about the Titan-class figures that are updates? Every single one, even this line's upcoming Cybertron Metroplex, can do the "Don't talk to me or my son ever again" meme with their original figure... except for Fort Max and Grand Max.

Something I'd like to try doing when I get Pointblank is recreating the UK Scorponok advert as best I can. Possibly down to the miscasting of the Terrorcons as Autobots (barring a lotto win or other windfall, it'll be that or using the PotP Dinobots).

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Ah-ha-ha-hah-ha, no. We don't know that. In fact, that blasted break in Drag Strip says he'll look more like that than not - that's why I've been complaining! The only difference is the arm bots will be split between the upper and lower arms. Instead of, you know, actually being the arms like they're supposed to.

100%. I have this exact concern. It's just going to be Motormaster as a cab, plus ALL OF MENASOR from his trailer that you pull apart to form a metric ton of kibble, plus the actual Stunticons pegged on in the blandest Sunbow style "combiner" ever made. It will look like the Newage and Magic Square nonsense we are seeing from 3P companies. Why can't Hasbro actually sit down and design a proper combiner?

CW had flaws, but it was primarily with joint tolerances and general bad designs. CW Menasor's shoulders not pegging in tightly, the weak hips on Motormaster, and the the limb hips used as combiner elbows. The connection ports and real transformation of limbs was not the issue that needed solving.

william-james88 wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:As I've mentioned elsewhere, Menasor really needs a complete design overhaul. Objectively the worst looking Decepticon Gestalt (Computron, I'd say is his Autobot "fugly" counterpart).

Meanwhile, any more news on Cybertron Metroplex?

What more news would you want? We know he's coming, will be available in late summer/early fall, price point will be around the same. we just wait till we get nicer pics and for the toy to be preorderable.

That's what I was looking for.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:It is admittedly a bit frustrating that Hasbro's marketing department has seemingly been sitting there going "guhhh" when it comes to providing the full pic load for this year's products.

That's not an accident or incompetence, it's by design. Can you imagine if they dropped a whole year's worth of product shots at once? The next day the boards would be clamoring for next year's releases, and after months of no updates, march on Rhode Island with pitchforks!

Another character we should have got, either in lieu of the energon monster rando or perhaps in lieu of Crankcase: Needlenose.

Scottywan82 wrote:Why can't Hasbro actually sit down and design a proper combiner?

I think they have done in the past, tbh. I would count CW/PotP as an example.

Scottywan82 wrote:CW had flaws, but it was primarily with joint tolerances and general bad designs. CW Menasor's shoulders not pegging in tightly, the weak hips on Motormaster, and the the limb hips used as combiner elbows. The connection ports and real transformation of limbs was not the issue that needed solving.

Indeed. And honestly, I don't think the limb hips used as combiner elbows was all that bad. Would have worked better if the hips were ratcheted, yes, but I personally haven't found it to be bad. I also felt plenty of the limb designs worked (although the Hasbro Technobots save Afterburner are bleh). Of the ones I've experienced, the Drag Strip mold is the only one I've been irked by. It's why I was initially excited when we first saw Legacy Drag Strip - being more geewun would have eliminated a fair bit of CW DS's awkwardness since the arms could have tucked in in altmode.

Has it been said anywhere if Legacy is going to last any longer than a year? I've seen the name "Legacy: Evolution" thrown around, so is it possible that "Evolution" is the first in a potential trilogy? I mainly ask because reading the full leaked list of Legacy toys has left me a bit underwhelmed. For the most part, this line feels like Hasbro just going through a laundry list of characters they intended to make for the War for Cybertron Trilogy but didn't have enough slots for. It is disappointing that a toyline themed around the Multiverse only has a small handful of characters from outside the first five years of G1. This is why I'm hoping Legacy lasts more than a year, and we get more Multiverse characters as time goes on.

I'm fine with the focus being mainly on neo-G1 still, because a lot of the time when Hasbro does a post-G1 character in CHUG it's at best a poor man's version, and even the ones that genuinely improve on the original in numerous ways usually still have some disappointments.

Meanwhile there's still a fair few G1s, including big names, that still await satisfactory modern toys.

Evolution was an early name for Legacy, and there has been a lot of speculation that it might be following a theme / sub-theme like Prime Wars and War for Cybertron, but the better point of comparison is probably Generations immediately ahead of T30. The lack of a strong theme or communicated multi-year plan makes me think Legacy is basically the new brand name for this segment of Generations.