The Energon Pub

yeah the red on the cab took me back a bit cos usually it's parts that are chrome. Took me a while to realise it was cos that's how he appeared on the show, however his bumper was a bit shorter so it was less obvious i guess.

really like him, but after sideswipe and smokescreen being so great, and with wheeljack also looking awesome, this one has some niggles. I can live with the cab not separating, tho it would've been awesome... think the butt flap is what bothers me the most, maybe if they could've separated it into 2 or have it fold in

anyways after generations metroplex, guess he'll be the most expensive piece in my collection. Bastard.

Samsonator wrote:Show accuracy be damned, a so-called Masterpiece should definitely have worked in a transforming cab, because it's something very integral to Ultra Magnus. They never show it in the cartoon, but we all know it's there.

OBJECTION!

I was not a child of the 80's, so I did not grow up watching G1 in the era that its toyline was out. Therefore, the way I watched the cartoon was through VHS tapes and DVDs that I bought from stores. And when I watched the cartoon and saw Ultra Magnus, I never, NEVER, imagined him having a smaller white Optimus Prime inside of him because, back then, I had never owned nor even seen pictures of a G1 Ultra Magnus toy. The guy on the show went from car carrier to red/white/blue robot and that's all I ever took him for. It wouldn't be until 2003 when Hasbro decided to reissue G1 Optimus, G1 Ultra Magnus, and G1 Hot Rod (renamed "Rodimus Major") at Toys "R" Us stores that I got to experience a G1 Ultra Magnus toy and learned about his white Optimus Prime inner robot.

And when I did, I was GLAD the cartoon omitted it and went for his Super Robot mode as his standard robot mode, because back then I was of the mindset that no one who isn't Optimus Prime should ever look just like Optimus Prime (except for evil clones like RiD Scourge and Nemesis Prime), as I believed Optimus Prime ought to be so special a character that his look must be one of a kind. Lesser characters can have ordinary separate-character redecos, but not Optimus, as I believed back then.

I wasn't a comic book reader back then either, so I didn't know about that one issue of Dreamwave's G1 comic that had Magnus get naked, but even still, that was just one comic issue out of many more.

These days, I know better from when I was younger, but my point still stands that not "everyone" believed (or even still believes) in Ultra Magnus having an Optimus Prime inner robot inside his body in the cartoon when going by just the cartoon alone.

Sabrblade wrote:

Samsonator wrote:Show accuracy be damned, a so-called Masterpiece should definitely have worked in a transforming cab, because it's something very integral to Ultra Magnus. They never show it in the cartoon, but we all know it's there.

OBJECTION!

I was not a child of the 80's, so I did not grow up watching G1 in the era that its toyline was out. Therefore, the way I watched the cartoon was through VHS tapes and DVDs that I bought from stores. And when I watched the cartoon and saw Ultra Magnus, I never, NEVER, imagined him having a smaller white Optimus Prime inside of him because, back then, I had never owned nor even seen pictures of a G1 Ultra Magnus toy. The guy on the show went from car carrier to red/white/blue robot and that's all I ever took him for. It wouldn't be until 2003 when Hasbro decided to reissue G1 Optimus, G1 Ultra Magnus, and G1 Hot Rod (renamed "Rodimus Major") at Toys "R" Us stores that I got to experience a G1 Ultra Magnus toy and learned about his white Optimus Prime inner robot.

And when I did, I was GLAD the cartoon omitted it and went for his Super Robot mode as his standard robot mode, because back then I was of the mindset that no one who isn't Optimus Prime should ever look just like Optimus Prime (except for evil clones like RiD Scourge and Nemesis Prime), as I believed Optimus Prime ought to be so special a character that his look must be one of a kind. Lesser characters can have ordinary separate-character redecos, but not Optimus, as I believed back then.

I wasn't a comic book reader back then either, so I didn't know about that one issue of Dreamwave's G1 comic that had Magnus get naked, but even still, that was just one comic issue out of many more.

These days, I know better from when I was younger, but my point still stands that not "everyone" believed (or even still believes) in Ultra Magnus having an Optimus Prime inner robot inside his body in the cartoon when going by just the cartoon alone.

OK... your personal feelings and path of discovery are valid, but that doesn't mitigate the fact that the G1 toy was what it was, nor that the MP line is looking to balance cartoon accuracy & G1 toy/vehicular accuracy.

An inner bot would have been appreciated. It is a legacy of Magnus that would not have made it into the official fiction if it were not inspired by G1 in some fashion, and it would have been nice to see the MP reflect this beyond the half-face under the real face.

This is not to say that MP-22 isn't looking great. What I'm trying to say, in short, is that your ignorance of the toy source material and personal passion for a unique Prime mold are not compelling reasons for the official MP team to neglect the inner robot.

Forgot to mention that I also grew out of the "Optimus should be unique" mindset I had back then.

But still, my point was in response to the claim of everyone believing Magnus to have an inner robot inside his body in the cartoon, when that may be true for the toy and non-cartoon fiction, but since the cartoon never presented it as such, we can't say for 100% certainty that Cartoon Ultra Magnus does really have a white Optimus inside himself.

Sabrblade wrote:Forgot to mention that I also grew out of the "Optimus should be unique" mindset I had back then.

But still, my point was in response to the claim of everyone believing Magnus to have an inner robot inside his body in the cartoon, when that may be true for the toy and non-cartoon fiction, but since the cartoon never presented it as such, we can't say for 100% certainty that Cartoon Ultra Magnus does really have a white Optimus inside himself.

Granted... but the flip side is there's no way to no cartoon Magnus didn't have an inner robot. It's 50/50, and that's fine. But we do know with 100% certainty that the toy did.

Expected Value for G1 Magnus having an inner robot = 1.5/2

megatronus wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Forgot to mention that I also grew out of the "Optimus should be unique" mindset I had back then.

But still, my point was in response to the claim of everyone believing Magnus to have an inner robot inside his body in the cartoon, when that may be true for the toy and non-cartoon fiction, but since the cartoon never presented it as such, we can't say for 100% certainty that Cartoon Ultra Magnus does really have a white Optimus inside himself.

Granted... but the flip side is there's no way to no cartoon Magnus didn't have an inner robot. It's 50/50, and that's fine. But we do know with 100% certainty that the toy did.

Expected Value for G1 Magnus having an inner robot = 1.5/2

I think you both have valid points. One more thing I would add was that the G1 cartoons were, in essence, 30-minute toy commercials. They were meant to get us kids (I was one of those children of the 80s) to beg our parents to buy us these really cool looking transforming toys. (Also of note, I did have Ultra Magnus as a kid in the 80s. So that colors my opinion greatly.) I certainly always assumed that Magnus had the inner white robot. Even kids who didn't have the toy would have seen the commercials. I seem to remember the inner robot being a part of those commercials...



That said, I would also take issue with Samsonator's wording and tone. Indeed, not everybody thought that way, perhaps even in the 80s. I do think it would have been a popular opinion for those who grew up in the 80s. Hence why some are disappointed in the end results here.

Personally, I think I like it fine the way it turned out. I would also have been okay with a white inner prime, though...

Looking at that commercial, the inner robot definitely wasn't the focus of the sell, so to speak. It got, what, a few seconds of screen time?

Myself, I don't miss the inner robot. Magnus is almost never portrayed as even having it, aside from a few obscure Dreamwave comics. Besides, I reckon having the robot be all one piece greatly increases his articulation- with how bulky Magnus is, and how much bigger he is than Prime, the MP-10 mold would need severe re-engineering to be able to don the armour and maintain decent articulation, not to mention the trailer would end up a floppy, partsforming mess.

Delta Magnus wrote:Myself, I don't miss the inner robot. Magnus is almost never portrayed as even having it, aside from a few obscure Dreamwave comics. Besides, I reckon having the robot be all one piece greatly increases his articulation- with how bulky Magnus is, and how much bigger he is than Prime, the MP-10 mold would need severe re-engineering to be able to don the armour and maintain decent articulation, not to mention the trailer would end up a floppy, partsforming mess.

im a white prime fan, but i agree with this. they would have had to sacrifice a lot, and the end result would have simply not been worth it.

whos to say they wont do a white prime repaint as the inner magnus bot down the road? they sure do love milking that MP10 mold...

*edit* more thoughts...
imagine a white magnus MP10, with say a handful of broken magnus armor bits? im drooling....

Delta Magnus wrote:Looking at that commercial, the inner robot definitely wasn't the focus of the sell, so to speak. It got, what, a few seconds of screen time?

It wasn't even really shown, all they did was show the kid pulling the legs down to stick it in the armor and then put the helmet on. If I didn't know about the existence of the white Prime, I would have assumed that the cab would just fold a bit to better fit into the body.
I mean if they intended to advertise the white Prime component, they would have shown it and said something like "Ultra Magnus can combine with his trailer to boot his power". Instead they only focused on alt-mode and Ultra Magnus mode, and all the clips they showed was of Magnus transforming from truck to armored mode without the inner bot, and that was original animation and not from any episode, on top of that Prime even says that he turns from trailer truck to his "powerful Autobot Commander". The shot of the white head doesn't even have a face, they obscure it almost to hide the fact that it's there.

Dead Metal wrote:It wasn't even really shown, all they did was show the kid pulling the legs down to stick it in the armor and then put the helmet on. If I didn't know about the existence of the white Prime, I would have assumed that the cab would just fold a bit to better fit into the body.
I mean if they intended to advertise the white Prime component, they would have shown it and said something like "Ultra Magnus can combine with his trailer to boot his power". Instead they only focused on alt-mode and Ultra Magnus mode, and all the clips they showed was of Magnus transforming from truck to armored mode without the inner bot, and that was original animation and not from any episode, on top of that Prime even says that he turns from trailer truck to his "powerful Autobot Commander". The shot of the white head doesn't even have a face, they obscure it almost to hide the fact that it's there.

This.



And as mentioned in a couple of interviews, Hasui tried to make the inner white robot happen, but it didn't work. So instead Kobayashi was assigned to do MP-22 with the cartoon transformation.

What you guys are saying is all true. Yet, I would also say that if people are of the opinion that they expected the white inner robot, that evidence is there as well. I'm not sure why this is becoming polarizing. I suppose for those that really, really wanted an inner white robot, this MP release is disappointing. Having lived through the 80s and getting the UM G1 toy, I can appreciate that perspective.

And yet, I am perfectly happy with how this turned out!

Agamemnon wrote:What you guys are saying is all true. Yet, I would also say that if people are of the opinion that they expected the white inner robot, that evidence is there as well. I'm not sure why this is becoming polarizing. I suppose for those that really, really wanted an inner white robot, this MP release is disappointing. Having lived through the 80s and getting the UM G1 toy, I can appreciate that perspective.

And yet, I am perfectly happy with how this turned out!

That's basically how I see it. An inner white robot would have been a great feature if workable, and many people hoped for & expected it. That said, MP-22 still looks pretty awesome.

Agamemnon wrote:I'm not sure why this is becoming polarizing.

same. if we had gotten a white prime with armor, i bet we'd have just as many complaints about parts forming and whatnot.

I'm an armor UM fan and I agreed with Hasui, MP UM should've been the armor version if it wasn't for the budget and ease of transformation. The armor version would've been the true MP which can satisfy both party. If you don't like the white Magnus, then don't transform him and reconfigure him straight to the armor version. Just because the white Magnus didn't appear in the cartoon, doesn't mean he did not exist. If we go by that route, I've never seen Rodimus trailer open up in the cartoon. Therefore, the toy battle mode with gun shouldn't exist. I know this is going to the extreme, but it's the same concept.

As for the white Magnus didn't get much screen time in the toy commercial. That is true for the U.S. But in Japan world, he sure got more screen time. They even showed the white Magnus with fist when he doesn't need to if going straight to the armor mode:

Actually, in the cartoon Rodimus Prime has a "full transformation" like Motormaster and Ultra Magnus.



He doesn't leave a semi-trailer behind like Optimus Prime, except for in animation errors.

I doubt they can translate that into a Masterpiece figure though. Unlike Magnus, Rodimus is quite svelte.

Cyberpath wrote:Actually, in the cartoon Rodimus Prime has a "full transformation" like Motormaster and Ultra Magnus.



He doesn't leave a semi-trailer behind like Optimus Prime, except for in animation errors.

I doubt they can translate that into a Masterpiece figure though. Unlike Magnus, Rodimus is quite svelte.

They managed it with the Titanium one:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:They managed it with the Titanium one:

And the Choro-Q, but neither has "Masterpiece" esthetics. It would probably involve a lot of folding panels.

Cyberpath wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:They managed it with the Titanium one:

And the Choro-Q, but neither has "Masterpiece" esthetics. It would probably involve a lot of folding panels.

Not as man as you'd think. Here's a Japanese pictorial:

Titanium Series Rodimus Prime on Ooebi's Hobby Factory.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Cyberpath wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:They managed it with the Titanium one:

And the Choro-Q, but neither has "Masterpiece" esthetics. It would probably involve a lot of folding panels.

Not as man as you'd think. Here's a Japanese pictorial:

Titanium Series Rodimus Prime on Ooebi's Hobby Factory.

No, he meant a full transformation style MP figure. It would need a lot of folding panels to go from show accurate Winnebago to show accurate Bot mode.

I had Ultra Magnus as a kid (the version with the nice silver painted face and painted antennae) so I was quite aware of the 'white Prime' component (the only thing I ever used that for was Prime when he appeared in the episode about the hate plague and was covered in that white alloy; it was never Magnus). It was never shown in the cartoon and as a kid I never thought of it as 2 forms for Ultra Magnus. I just looked at the white cab part as a part of the Ultra Magnus robot mode.

Takara has finally delivered the Ultra Magnus I've always wanted, so I'm happy with it. I much prefer this transformation to having to slap armor onto an MP-10.

Also, isn't it kinda neat that for once, Ultra Magnus isn't just a white redeco/retool of Prime?

Aside from the nostalgia as from the 80's as my reason for wanting the white inner robot, I thought they would have done it for the inevitable Powered Convoy repaint they could have made.

But that would be a bit hard now.

Eh, they can repaint him in Diaclone colours anyway. And probably will. I've never been too fussed about the Powered Convoy colours myself- they're alright, but they're nothing special.

In any case, I'd rather they ditched the inner robot and had a much more secure and well-made toy as a result than tried to do the inner robot thing and ended up with a floppy, gappy, partsforming mess.

Burn wrote:Aside from the nostalgia as from the 80's as my reason for wanting the white inner robot, I thought they would have done it for the inevitable Powered Convoy repaint they could have made.

But that would be a bit hard now.

They can, along with MP10 sans the trailer. Would make for a pretty badass display set, an expensive one though.

Delta Magnus wrote:Also, isn't it kinda neat that for once, Ultra Magnus isn't just a white redeco/retool of Prime?

But we've had several Ultra Magnus toy that were unique molds not redecoed from Optimus toys.