The Energon Pub

I ain't buying Either player until one of them has won.
and when the boxes stop being bright colors(300 on Blu-Ray)

Sid Burn wrote:Not going to dignify your flamebait but if you think that Sony having 6 of the 8 big hollywood studios behind it while HDdud only has 2 isnts the nail in the coffin, I cant help you.

if you choose to own a HD-DVD player instead of a Blu-ray player, you won't be able to play high definition movies from Disney (Buena Vista), Fox, Lionsgate, MGM, Sony, Warner and New Line which have all decided to support Blu-ray exclusively. With the majority of the movie studios supporting Blu-ray, the massive support from consumer electronics companies, the fact that PlayStation 3 features a Blu-ray Disc drive... well you can see the writing on the wall.

Hollywood may not bring us the the best content all the time, but they bring in the biggest money, and in the end, money decides format wars.

Universal and Paramount are the only studios still waving the HDDVD flag, but with Warner going Blu, my prediction is the same as Bay's, HDdud will die.

I am glad hollywood actually picked the better format this time.
You might not see the use of a larger capacity disc now, but in time the benefit will be obvious.

How can you classify stating the techincal similarities of both formats and asking you to justify your reasons for calling HD-DVD hddud as an attempt to flame you? Seriously your starting to come across a bit like one of those idiots off Gamefaqs, albeit with better grammer.

I too believe that Blu-Ray will be the eventual winner, as much as it doesn't benefit the public due to the medieval levels of content protection on Blu-Ray that serves no purpose other than to restrict access in other regions in this "globalised market" that every company seems to be shouting on about. Also in your reply you seem to have completely ignored the fact that I stated that I have both a HD-DVD player and Blu-Ray player and as such am well aware of the strengths and limitations of both formats.

HD-DVD
15/17gb per layer
Video codecs: Mpeg2, AVC, VC-1
Audio codecs: DD+5.1, DTS5.1, DD True HD 7.1, DTS 7.1
Interactive format: HDi, encompassing every major web based language
Region Coding: None
Encryption: AACS

Blu-Ray
25 gb per layer
Video codecs: Mpeg2, AVC, VC-1
Audio codecs: DD+5.1, DTS5.1, DD True HD 7.1, DTS7.1, Linear PCM
Interactive format: Sun Microsystems Java Virtual Machine based, BD-j
Region Coding: Yes, 3 a: North America & S.E Asia b: All Pal territories c: Rest of world
Encryption: AACS, BD+

I can't help but think that blu-ray will win now, which irritates me overall. It's not an issue of owning the players (I have both as well) so much as the blatant hypocrisy once again of our "free market" society. These products aren't actually competing, the studios are deciding for us. Paramount (and the rest of the supporters on the rebel moon base Yavin) will only holdout for so long now, and be forced to cave because of sony's greasy studio control. blu-ray is technically better yadda yadda, that's beside the point for me... the point is these crippled man-beasts in suits winking at you and smiling, saying they're doing what's best for the consumer as their grunt technicians put it right up your -

To Abilor and Samurai, I really dont see what the complaint is about.

Studios like Warner are helping to decide things, but those studios are only doing so based on sales. Bluray has a global lead of 3to1 in sales. Warner would be silly not to follow the money.
It is our dollars that decide these things much of the time. Sony is a large corporation but only is so based on revenue generated over many years based on great audio video equipment.

Be happy that this time, consumers picked the superior format that will stand the test of time, HDDVD is already at capacity with most HD encodings coming in at 25gigs.

The first DVDs didnt come close to filling a full disc yet this "improved" format is already near the brim? That is not the format I want to spend money on.

Microsoft has seen the future as well, stating that it would not be unwilling to incorporate a BDrom into xbox's if the format war's conclusion dictated it.

If the most compelling argument againt Blu is region encoded discs...get over it, dvds are region encoded, and there are ways around it. Sony has to please the creatives and the consumers, take it from someone who works in a creative industry, intellectual property is as fragile as it is precious. Region encoding, and even DRM is attractive to creators, as it helps to ensure they are not taken advantage of.

Anyway, I am happy to say that the discussions I have had with other board members (some more heated than others) have worked in my favour. HDdud will be dead in a year and we can all get on with our HD collections the way they should have been a year ago before paramount got their payoff.

Abilor wrote: blu-ray is technically better yadda yadda, that's beside the point for me...

Had to comment on this. Do consumers not want the better product? Is that not the entire point of this debate? How can it upset you when the better product is the one that will be in your home?

Sony isnt out to get you abilor, they want to sell you and everyone else electronics.

Sid Burn wrote:The first DVDs didnt come close to filling a full disc yet this "improved" format is already near the brim? That is not the format I want to spend money on.

If the most compelling argument againt Blu is region encoded discs...get over it, dvds are region encoded, and there are ways around it. Sony has to please the creatives and the consumers, take it from someone who works in a creative industry, intellectual property is as fragile as it is precious. Region encoding, and even DRM is attractive to creators, as it helps to ensure they are not taken advantage of.

Actually the first dvds were completely filled, and thats without extras, for the initial releases and they were only available on single layer discs as dual layer discs were still in development.

I still remember the debacle that arose from having to change side for the original Armageddon dvd to watch the second half of the movie as it was on a double sided disc. I also know to my chagrin that standards can evolve as my first dvd player(a first gen Phillips dvd player that I picked up at 1/3 retail thanks to a Tower sale) eventually couldn't play any new dvds and can anyone remember the "slight pause" that used to be mentioned when the player changes the layer its reading?

I know how precious protecting your intellectual property is as well believe me, I'm a mechanical engineer. I don't mind having a lot of rights protection as long as it doesn't restrict what I, the consumer, can do with the product that I've purchased outside of copying the contents of a disc as there is no reason to copy a high definition film other than to pirate it(if you want it on your iPod or psp[except the new Blu-ray flims that are coming out with a psp format version of the film also on the disc] there are other ways).

HD-DVD
15/17gb per layer
Video codecs: Mpeg2, AVC, VC-1
Audio codecs: DD+5.1, DTS5.1, DD True HD 7.1, DTS 7.1
Interactive format: HDi, encompassing every major web based language
Region Coding: None
Encryption: AACS

Blu-Ray
25 gb per layer
Video codecs: Mpeg2, AVC, VC-1
Audio codecs: DD+5.1, DTS5.1, DD True HD 7.1, DTS7.1, Linear PCM
Interactive format: Sun Microsystems Java Virtual Machine based, BD-j
Region Coding: Yes, 3 a: North America & S.E Asia b: All Pal territories c: Rest of world
Encryption: AACS, BD+

Just from a neutral point of view, it does look as if Blu has a bit more umph to it than HD-DVD. Marginal, yes, but a bit more. I do not own an HD-DVD player. I have a PS3, and I'm quite happy with it. I haven't noticed anybody trying to control and limit my actions in any way. I'm actually glad to have blu-ray functionality built in, 1)saved me some cash on buying a player, and 2) Blu's got a much wider selection.

On a side note, I'm just finding the flaming attitudes here quite...humorous. Carry on.

One thing to like about HD DVD is the absence of regional coding. For now.

Auto Bot wrote:One thing to like about HD DVD is the absence of regional coding. For now.

Exactly, for now :/

Micheal bay really is an idiot on this subject. Yeah I was wrong on it, I really thought HD-DVD would win the war, but it looks like Blu Ray is, but my main question for Mr. Mike is who cares anyway? They virtually are the same thing, just coded differently anyway! The picture quality is EXACTLY the same. Why does it matter whether something is released on Blu-Ray or HD DVD?

They both are one in the same IMO. I really Don't care who wins. As for me when I get a better TV, I'm probably just going to buy a Multi-player for it.

It's actually a good thing there's an HD-DVD vs Bly-Ray war going on. Whoever loses out, will drop its price drastically. Benefiting the consumers.

Imagine if only either one of them is developed, with no rivals. You'd see prices of player beyond &1000. It wouldn't be hard to imagine it climbing to the $5000 range. And they'd hang on to the prices for a pretty long time.

Auto Bot wrote:It's actually a good thing there's an HD-DVD vs Bly-Ray war going on. Whoever loses out, will drop its price drastically. Benefiting the consumers.

Imagine if only either one of them is developed, with no rivals. You'd see prices of player beyond &1000. It wouldn't be hard to imagine it climbing to the $5000 range. And they'd hang on to the prices for a pretty long time.

I don't see that happening. If it did, it wouldn't suprise me if studios start jumping ship back to HD-DVD. I mean, the individual studios don't make players, & if the players cost so much nobody wants the movies, they would stand to lose money.

They don't need to jump back. They can still hold on to the winning format as their primary deal.

And if the losing format gives a sweeter deal, the studios can reopen its doors, making this format a secondary deal.

Auto Bot wrote:It's actually a good thing there's an HD-DVD vs Bly-Ray war going on. Whoever loses out, will drop its price drastically. Benefiting the consumers.

Imagine if only either one of them is developed, with no rivals. You'd see prices of player beyond &1000. It wouldn't be hard to imagine it climbing to the $5000 range. And they'd hang on to the prices for a pretty long time.

Not true, it all depends on the price of the technology, can you remember how quickly the prices dropped on dvd players?

When dvd players were released at the end of 1996 they were well over $1000, within the next three years they dropped to the $300 mark, and that was without any rival format as all of the major electronics companies agreed on the format, which also would have been the case for Blu-Ray if Sony accepted the deal that HP were able to broker that HD-DVD would have been scrapped altogether if they incorporated Microsofts HDi coding format rather than Sun Microsystems BD-java that they use now.

Imagine how much cheaper a unified format would be now considering that the output of blue laser diodes wouldn't need to be split between players of two incompatable formats and the PS3.

That was because they made 4 different confusing formats (was it 4?) out of DVD, and each collection of companies supporting their respective format, have to fight it out. In effect, they created their own rivalry upon themselves.

Dumb. But did benefit the consumers.

Later on, when Chinese factories started churning out nameless multi-format drives, which worked better than those big names, they all have to drop the format war, and jumped into the multi-format bandwagon.

So by the time DVD became uniform, prices were already rock-bottom.

Now this scenario can't happen with high-density drives yet. Not until Chinese companies started to acquire the abilities to manufacture them without the throat-cutting royalties.

For now, we have to depend solely on the rivalry to expect falling prices. Especially so when one of them started to get the upper hand.

Auto Bot wrote:That was because they made 4 different confusing formats (was it 4?) out of DVD, and each collection of companies supporting their respective format, have to fight it out. In effect, they created their own rivalry upon themselves.

Dumb. But did benefit the consumers.

Later on, when Chinese factories started churning out nameless multi-format drives, which worked better than those big names, they all have to drop the format war, and jumped into the multi-format bandwagon.

So by the time DVD became uniform, prices were already rock-bottom.

Now this scenario can't happen with high-density drives yet. Not until Chinese companies started to acquire the abilities to manufacture them without the throat-cutting royalties.

For now, we have to depend solely on the rivalry to expect falling prices. Especially so when one of them started to get the upper hand.

Your thinking of the incompatability of early dvd players with the three different recordable dvd formats, dvd-r, dvd+r and dvd-ram, there was always a unified format for dvd-video.

This was due to the way the information was etched onto the discs, with dvd-ram being the best, but incompatable with standard drives. Dvd-r was the original format for standard recording and then dvd+r sprouted up 5 years later which is more stable allowing for higher burning speeds, but has a slightly reduced capacity, about 7MB per layer less than dvd-r.

My first super-expensive Sony DVD player can't read all types of DVD video formats. Piece of junk.

I ended up buying more VCDs than DVDs.

Until the Chinese players came out.