The Energon Pub

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I'm personally just a bit worried about the feet. I haven't had very good experiences with Victorion or Computron with their feet with the ankle tilts. For 1 thing, the bot mode is too heavy for the ankle tilt to really be worth anything. and 2, only very specific bots actually work with it. If I use the cars as legs for Victorion, she topples over. If I only use one car and one coptor, she falls over. She will not balance on the cars, and there are stress marks from me trying.

computron has a similar issue, resolved because his combiner lean and foot connector lean were bad enough I bent Scattershots arm at the elbow just past the unlocking click, and how he stands nice and straight, albeit with his feet about an inch or 2 off alignment like he's taking a small step forward.

Hmm, that's weird, I haven't had nearly the level of problems with the Victorion/Computron feet as you have, but I definitely know what you mean. I actually think the main problem is the Vic/Comp feet are too light, as opposed to the combiners being too heavy. soecifically for how tall they are. That puts the center of gravity of the foot itself fairly high. Especially on the ankle tilts, I haven't used them because at the angle, the lack of weight for the foot itself compared to how tall it is just makes the foot want to flip on its side.

There is hope though, the shorter looking feet for the PotP voyagers also appear to be more solid than the Vic/Comp feet, to they are likely about the same weight, but shorter and less prone to tipping from a high center of mass.

Qwan wrote:

Rysquad wrote:

Qwan wrote:

Rysquad wrote:Deluxe and up probably won't have pegs for Titan Masters/Prime Masters to stand on, right?

The Deluxe Dinobots definitely do have pegs; I don't recall seeing them on the other Deluxes (nor can I even remember whether I saw any on Grimlock) but I might've just missed them. They're definitely not out of the question at least.

Going back on some of the actual pics, I think I see them on most of the figures.

Damn, would have been nice for Combiner Wars to have them ahead of Titans Return.

Indeed, but surely that might've spoiled the surprise a little early - or worse, given us false hopes before we knew what was actually coming. Had we seen little pegs all over everything early on in CW, I think a lot of people wouldn't have hesitated to call Micromasters, leading to probably a fair few disappointed faces when TMs inevitably showed up. (Not that TMs are inherently any better or worse than Micromasters, but even a lateral difference to expectations can often be a great blow.)

...Okay yeah I'm totally pulling that justification outta nowhere, but I'd say it makes about as much sense as any explanation you could give. Except maybe (and much more rationally I guess), that they hadn't decided TR's gimmick yet while they were working on early CW, much like what we ran into with TR PMOP being better suited for the not-yet-devised PotP Leader gimmick.

That said, I wonder if Inferno will have any retooling to accommodate TM/PM pegs. I'd say it's doubtful, but also not outside the realm of possibility either. It'd definitely be interesting though if he didn't, having him be the only figure (so far) that's completely incompatible with the main gimmick of the line. (I'd call combining the 'secondary gimmick', even though it takes more engineering work and compromise to the individual figures, since Prime Masters are really being played up as the main play feature of PotP.)

I have too many thoughts right now...

I'd buy guns that Titan Masters could ride on that can attach to 5mm ports on Combiner Wars figures in alt mode so I could have Titan Masters on Combiner Wars figures.

I think I see Titan/Prime Master compatible pegs on POTP Rodimus Prime's trailer, on Dreadwind but not Blackwing, on Jazz, on Starscream. I think I'm ok here but will miss the cockpits/seats for this run.

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

D-Maximus_Prime wrote:I'm personally just a bit worried about the feet. I haven't had very good experiences with Victorion or Computron with their feet with the ankle tilts. For 1 thing, the bot mode is too heavy for the ankle tilt to really be worth anything. and 2, only very specific bots actually work with it. If I use the cars as legs for Victorion, she topples over. If I only use one car and one coptor, she falls over. She will not balance on the cars, and there are stress marks from me trying.

computron has a similar issue, resolved because his combiner lean and foot connector lean were bad enough I bent Scattershots arm at the elbow just past the unlocking click, and how he stands nice and straight, albeit with his feet about an inch or 2 off alignment like he's taking a small step forward.

Hmm, that's weird, I haven't had nearly the level of problems with the Victorion/Computron feet as you have, but I definitely know what you mean. I actually think the main problem is the Vic/Comp feet are too light, as opposed to the combiners being too heavy. soecifically for how tall they are. That puts the center of gravity of the foot itself fairly high. Especially on the ankle tilts, I haven't used them because at the angle, the lack of weight for the foot itself compared to how tall it is just makes the foot want to flip on its side.

There is hope though, the shorter looking feet for the PotP voyagers also appear to be more solid than the Vic/Comp feet, to they are likely about the same weight, but shorter and less prone to tipping from a high center of mass.

I don't have Computron myself, but for Victorion I also haven't had nearly that number of problems either. Her toe bend got way too loose on one foot after I bent the toe to its fullest extent in both directions just to test it out; I guess I could nail-polish it but I just haven't been bothered. Positioning one of her legs one click back helps to take the forward-leaning weight off the loose toes, and pulls double-duty to counteract the Pyra Magna mold's wobbly hips as well. Even with the cars as legs, having her hips one click apart like that I haven't experienced any real stability issues - maybe a bit of a wobble if I get too crazy with posing, but I haven't ever had her topple from any kind of reasonable pose.

And, uh. Where was I going with that. Oh yes: in my experience the main problem with the Victorion feet (not sure about Compy) is the toe bend that can loosen up and render the combiner wibbly. Since these new PotP feet look like they'll be solid chunks (with their attachment point being way far back on the foot so there's plenty to toe to hold things up), I'm considerably more optimistic about these new ones actually.

(That said, I have a black set of KO Perfect Effect appendages in the mail right now that I had planned to put on Sky Reign, but will probably end up going to Volcanononjakuzurecus if I decide I like his combined mode - so the new hands and feet are probably a moot point to me for the time being anyway.)

Qwan wrote:I don't have Computron myself, but for Victorion I also haven't had nearly that number of problems either. Her toe bend got way too loose on one foot after I bent the toe to its fullest extent in both directions just to test it out; I guess I could nail-polish it but I just haven't been bothered. Positioning one of her legs one click back helps to take the forward-leaning weight off the loose toes, and pulls double-duty to counteract the Pyra Magna mold's wobbly hips as well. Even with the cars as legs, having her hips one click apart like that I haven't experienced any real stability issues - maybe a bit of a wobble if I get too crazy with posing, but I haven't ever had her topple from any kind of reasonable pose.

You're right, there are 2 slightly different problems. I was describing the Computron foot more than Victorion. Vicky's feet are more solid, but the toe hinge leads to instability front to back. for Comps, the feet are hollow and the plastic is a bit soft, so the ankle tilts are a little less stable to begin with. They also sit high, so the feet tend to want to flip inwards if you try to use an A stance and the ankle tilts. They basically tend to try and fall into the splits.

I have both Victorion and Megatronia. I've not had too much trouble getting either to stand properly, regardless of whether I use the helicopters (Victorion) or the cars (Megatronia) as the legs. Of course, I did a slight bit of alternate transforming to get the feet and legs to be more stable together for each. For the helicopters, you can use the semicircular tabs that normally form the top of the helicopter cockpit to prop up the legs against their natural forward lean into the feet. For the cars, at least with Trickdiamond (or Jumpstream), I fold down the rear spoiler to get the same effect. I've had these figures arranged as such for several months now, and there doesn't seem to be any wear on those parts or joints.

I don't have Hasbro Computron, having elected to get Takara's version instead, but I do have Takara's exclusive Baldigus, which has the same hands and feet as Hasbro's Computron. I don't have any difficulty getting Baldigus to stand with those particular feet, no matter what the configuration. I guess your mileage may vary.

Qwan wrote:Volcanononjakuzurecus

Okay,now that one I had to Google. Still meaning to get round to that show...
I think the biggest mystery of potp is how long you'll be able to keep this up

Emerje wrote:I meant to make a similar point earlier, but didn't have a chance. Hasbro rarely announces a figure without having something near finished ready to show first. Even when it's very obvious like the teaser they gave us for Overlord way-back-when, they still wont confirm something until they've gotten to at least the hand painted stage. This is a stance they've had for some time and it's fairly unique to them. Other toy companies, especially Takara Tomy, will announce things without even a drawing of the figure to show, but not Hasbro.

Emerje

This is actually an interesting point, and it goes along with the complaint that they used to show off the entire toyline at the start of the year and now they don't. Well, it's because in the 80s they had the entire line made at the beginning (since reused molds) whereas now they're still designing the last wave of toys as the first wave is hitting shelves, and the stuff in the middle is in various stages of physical development so they may not have anything to show.

Qwan wrote:(That said, I have a black set of KO Perfect Effect appendages in the mail right now that I had planned to put on Sky Reign, but will probably end up going to Volcanononjakuzurecus if I decide I like his combined mode - so the new hands and feet are probably a moot point to me for the time being anyway.)

Also I understood that reference. Good man.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Qwan wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

Qwan wrote:And speaking of the new combiner kibbles and bits, I propose the new acronyms be: HATs (Hand/Armor/Torso-bulkers) and FBPs (Foot/Buckler/Prime-holders

Or, and I know this is going to sound crazy, but we could just call them "Hands and Feet".

Yeah but that's no fun. What's the point of having a cool new thing if we can't make up dumb acronyms to refer to it by?

"HAT" and "FBP" aren't that dumb. Now "CHUG," THAT is a terrible acronym that needs to die already!

I may know what 'CHUG' mean but it still conjure up the imagery of people, well, chugging. Or maybe Transformers doing that with gasoline or energon, like giant robo-fratboys. And Guzzle living up to his name.

Skritz wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Qwan wrote:

steals_your_goats wrote:

Qwan wrote:And speaking of the new combiner kibbles and bits, I propose the new acronyms be: HATs (Hand/Armor/Torso-bulkers) and FBPs (Foot/Buckler/Prime-holders

Or, and I know this is going to sound crazy, but we could just call them "Hands and Feet".

Yeah but that's no fun. What's the point of having a cool new thing if we can't make up dumb acronyms to refer to it by?

"HAT" and "FBP" aren't that dumb. Now "CHUG," THAT is a terrible acronym that needs to die already!

I may know what 'CHUG' mean but it still conjure up the imagery of people, well, chugging. Or maybe Transformers doing that with gasoline or energon, like giant robo-fratboys. And Guzzle living up to his name.

Like it or not, CHUG is a word used by Hasbro staff as well so its more official than most fan words we use

Btw here's a list of acronyms
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Abbreviations

some are downright ludicrous...especially that Fully Automated Rapid Transit System

Stuartmaximus wrote:Btw here's a list of acronyms
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Abbreviations

some are downright ludicrous...especially that Fully Automated Rapid Transit System

LMAO

^ a little OT, but true, having grown up in the Bay Area of Northern CA. There's a town about an hour inland called Fairfield. Their Bus system was Fairfield Area Rapid Transit.

I know it is too early and given what we assumed with Titans Return that didn't pan out despite being obvious (read: Horrorcon voyagers), but it is plausible that we could see Monstructor in this line using Dinobot and Terrorcon molds, correct? This has gotten me thinking if Piranacon wouldn't be possible for later weaves:

• Rippersnapper into Overbite and Skalor.
• Cutthroat or Swoop heavily retooled into a manta ray monster for Seawing, using the wings for the...uh, wings I guess? Its not like the seacon ever looked like actual animals to begin with.
• Possibly Blot into Tentakil and/or Nautilator. This one I'm not a 100% sure as I think it would require a bit more retooling but it seem plausible enough. Of course, Nautilator would work better as a legends-class gun rather than a limb unless they shake the lineup.

Skritz wrote:I know it is too early and given what we assumed with Titans Return that didn't pan out despite being obvious (read: Horrorcon voyagers), but it is plausible that we could see Monstructor in this line using Dinobot and Terrorcon molds, correct? This has gotten me thinking if Piranacon wouldn't be possible for later weaves:

• Rippersnapper into Overbite and Skalor.
• Cutthroat or Swoop heavily retooled into a manta ray monster for Seawing, using the wings for the...uh, wings I guess? Its not like the seacon ever looked like actual animals to begin with.
• Possibly Blot into Tentakil and/or Nautilator. This one I'm not a 100% sure as I think it would require a bit more retooling but it seem plausible enough. Of course, Nautilator would work better as a legends-class gun rather than a limb unless they shake the lineup.

A little too soon to comfortably speculate about Piranacon/King Poseidon, but Monstructor/Dinoking was on their minds when designing the toys, as Cutthroat (who shares parts with Swoop) has an alternate head based on Wildfly/Yokuryu. The Terrorcon and Pretender Monster share the same basic Beast Mode to boot. Blot's body shape lends itself well to Scowl/Doryu and Icepick/Goryu, but Bristleback/Gairyu... I'm gonna leave Slog/Kakuryu and Birdbrain/Rairryu out for right now.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Skritz wrote:I know it is too early and given what we assumed with Titans Return that didn't pan out despite being obvious (read: Horrorcon voyagers), but it is plausible that we could see Monstructor in this line using Dinobot and Terrorcon molds, correct? This has gotten me thinking if Piranacon wouldn't be possible for later weaves:

• Rippersnapper into Overbite and Skalor.
• Cutthroat or Swoop heavily retooled into a manta ray monster for Seawing, using the wings for the...uh, wings I guess? Its not like the seacon ever looked like actual animals to begin with.
• Possibly Blot into Tentakil and/or Nautilator. This one I'm not a 100% sure as I think it would require a bit more retooling but it seem plausible enough. Of course, Nautilator would work better as a legends-class gun rather than a limb unless they shake the lineup.

A little too soon to comfortably speculate about Piranacon/King Poseidon, but Monstructor/Dinoking was on their minds when designing the toys, as Cutthroat (who shares parts with Swoop) has an alternate head based on Wildfly/Yokuryu. The Terrorcon and Pretender Monster share the same basic Beast Mode to boot. Blot's body shape lends itself well to Scowl/Doryu and Icepick/Goryu, but Bristleback/Gairyu... I'm gonna leave Slog/Kakuryu and Birdbrain/Rairryu out for right now.

Dinoking is also a possibility. Look I'll just say this: given how much Hasbro re-used mold/used shared engineering for CW, the odds of using those molds just for the Dinobot and Terrorcon are incredibly slim. It's just not the way Hasbro goes nowadays, what with pretool and retools and all this.

Mark my word that we'll at least see a third combiner out of those two limb sets, with Monstructor being the most likely candidate, possibly with Dinoking as a boxset or Takara set. Now wether Dinoking share molds with the hypothetical Monstructor or if they use Dinobots to reflect their pretender shells is anyone's guess should it even happen. Either way, I was merely speculating that, if they wanted to be more ambitious with those molds later on, that there some potential.

However the fact we have the likes of Jazz and the Dreadwing duo does make me wonder if Abominus and Volcanicus are the only complete combiners in the lineup, with the rest as spare torso and limbs. Unless Starscream is a pretool of Skyquake as a combiner torso. Plausible but mere speculation right now too.

I'm still holding out hope we will see more deluxe limbs as time goes on. Only 3 waves have been revealed (and a single deluxe for a 4th), theres still plenty of time to reveal additional waves that could complete the Inferno, Starscream, and Elita-1 Combiners as well as possibly introducing Piranacon, and Monstructor later. If we got all that out of this line, I'd be perfectly satisfied.

Still waiting anxiously for TT to announce their plans...

All I know is that, if I lack the budget to get a full combiner (given I want a few Leader class figures) I at least plan to get Darkwing and Dreadwings to display alongside Overlord, even if I suspect Takara will release them recolored as Buster and Hydra, which would be technically more accurate for display purposes.

o.supreme wrote:Still waiting anxiously for TT to announce their plans...

Admittedly, it would be funny to have two Kyoryu Gattai Senshi (Dinosaur Combined Warriors) in the same line.

I'll probably get the Dinos first, to tide me over for Abominus. Hopefully I can find Dead End, Brawl, Swindle and Blast Off at the very least.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Still waiting anxiously for TT to announce their plans...

Admittedly, it would be funny to have two Kyoryu Gattai Senshi (Dinosaur Combined Warriors) in the same line.

I'll probably get the Dinos first, to tide me over for Abominus. Hopefully I can find Dead End, Brawl, Swindle and Blast Off at the very least.

If Hasbro doesn't do a Dinoking, I wouldn't be surprised Takara does it.

Hasbro does do a lot more retools and pretools and blah blah blah these days, especially in regards to Combiners... which is why I'm all the more shocked that we have seen -zero- direct mold re-uses throughout the plethora of Deluxe limbs we've seen so far. Jazz, Moonracer, the Dinobots and the Terrorcons all have their own original molds - with a few parts shared here and there, but really, that's more of a Scourge/Highbrow dealio than a Blast Off/Quickslinger - and then even though they're re-using CW molds, Darkwing and Dreadwind still have heavy retooling done to them. It feels like Combiner Wars was popular enough to warrant more budget for more original molds in a sequel -- that, and they got this sort of thing figured out in TR.

Kurona wrote:Hasbro does do a lot more retools and pretools and blah blah blah these days, especially in regards to Combiners... which is why I'm all the more shocked that we have seen -zero- direct mold re-uses throughout the plethora of Deluxe limbs we've seen so far. Jazz, Moonracer, the Dinobots and the Terrorcons all have their own original molds - with a few parts shared here and there, but really, that's more of a Scourge/Highbrow dealio than a Blast Off/Quickslinger - and then even though they're re-using CW molds, Darkwing and Dreadwind still have heavy retooling done to them. It feels like Combiner Wars was popular enough to warrant more budget for more original molds in a sequel -- that, and they got this sort of thing figured out in TR.

It could just be they intended to release the new molds/release as many different molds as possible in the earlier waves, perhaps in part to alleviate the concerns of it being just 'Combiner Wars 2.0'. That and the remaining combiners, what few there were, seemingly share little in common to the point it seems like in PotP the old combiners may very well end up a minority given that the only returning combiner (at least in the Deluxe/Voyager line) so far is Abominus. Starscream is a spare torso, Elita-1 seem like she's getting her own team and Inferno seem like a spare torso too. Jazz and the Dreadwing duo seem unassociated so far.

This leave Abominus the only guy who exist as a 'set' of remade G1 characters, as the Dinobot may be remake of previous characters, their combined form is new*.
*The Beast doesn't exist.

Kurona wrote:Hasbro does do a lot more retools and pretools and blah blah blah these days, especially in regards to Combiners... which is why I'm all the more shocked that we have seen -zero- direct mold re-uses throughout the plethora of Deluxe limbs we've seen so far.

But then you get to Inferno who is almost a straight redeco of a toy from 3 years ago which is arguably worse than having a retool of a new toy (like Starscream and Elita One). And you mention those dreadwing deluxes, which are based on previous molds, like Hung Gurrr.

It looks like this will be more like the TR main line which had few straight redecos when it came to deluxes (3, with each having their own head).

william-james88 wrote:

Kurona wrote:Hasbro does do a lot more retools and pretools and blah blah blah these days, especially in regards to Combiners... which is why I'm all the more shocked that we have seen -zero- direct mold re-uses throughout the plethora of Deluxe limbs we've seen so far.

But then you get to Inferno who is almost a straight redeco of a toy from 3 years ago which is arguably worse than having a retool of a new toy (like Starscream and Elita One). And you mention those dreadwing deluxes, which are based on previous molds, like Hung Gurrr.

It looks like this will be more like the TR main line which had few straight redecos when it came to deluxes (3, with each having their own head).

I was specifically talking about Deluxes though, and I did mention the Dreadwings being based on previous molds.

Voyagers seem... strangely left out when it comes to all the retooling advances. Specific cases like Broadside/Alpha Trion aside, new head redecoes/minor retools still seem to be the name of the game for them while Deluxes have advanced past that for the most part.

An interesting case he is, Hun-Gurrr is not a retool in the traditional sense. He is completely new, only his transformation into Torso Mode is largely lifted from CW Silverbolt, and the shape of some of his parts is similar. That's all that ties him to the Aerialbot leader. As for his Beast Mode, any figure with decent articulation can be put in a similar configuration, look at Scourge who did just that in the Legends manga. I dare you to try it

Comparing Dreadwing and BlackwingDarkwing with Skydive and Air Raid, they share more parts than one would think. The legs, the lower arms and especially the wings and tail fins are kept intact, and the total assembly has minor tweaks for the Dreadwing combo, like the repositioning of the wings and the latter's cockpit. Pretty interesting.

Two different approaches for reusing CW figures so far (aside from the before unused Inferno pretool), or their engineering. I wonder if two separate groups within the total design team were responsible for each.