The Energon Pub

To continue on from what a few people have said already, the word really is a commonly used word that has no remotely offensive connotation and isn't even considered an insult. I wouldn't say it refers to being clumsy or oafish. The context I've always understood for it was to be a closer synonym to spontaneous, unexpected or erratic. It is such a commonly used word that I can easily see Hasbro being unaware that it has a different connotation overseas. I don't know the logistics of it, but now that the problem is evident, I think they should definitely change its name for the UK and other regions where it is an inappropriate name. Calling him something like "Wild card" would convey a similar personality, but I don't know if that's a common expression outside of the U.S. For all I know it could be even more offensive.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:People are too sensitive over childish insults and that reaction only strengthens the word's power. I don't think Hasbro should have to research what every word means in every country just so they won't offend someone who decided to let bother them. What will happen if someone decides that Soundwave if offensive to deaf people, or Bulkhead is offensive to people with ample craniums?

Or Lockdown to former convicts? Or Highbrow to people with large foreheads? Or Erector to people with ED? Or Windbreaker to people with irritable bowel syndrome?

Shall I go on?

Anyway, I think none UK/AUS people are still surprised by how much venom is produced when reacting to this word. It was unfortunate on Hasbro's part, but less unfortunate than naming Nexus Maximus after a sex toy. As language changes, and globalization gets, well, more global, this will probably keep happening.

I don't really know how they can avoid this universally.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:Or Erector to people with ED? Or Windbreaker to people with irritable bowel syndrome?

Shall I go on?

Please do

One way would be to do a quick wikepedia search or use dictionary.com to do a search that would take 2 minutes tops.

But any ways my intentions were to show this had become noticed outside of the tf community not to start a argument or for people to be trolled/flamed/belittled by other members. There's several forums you can go to for that just by saying hello.

Jimmy Drift wrote:

Razorclaw0000 wrote:Or Erector to people with ED? Or Windbreaker to people with irritable bowel syndrome?

Shall I go on?

Please do

Mindwipe to people with amnesia, Blurr to people with bad vision, Seaspray to people with motion sickness, Skids is self explanatory. There's a million of these.

And the flaming continues.

Why can't you guys accept that a lot of people from UK/Ireland/Australia find this word offensive?

I don't think it's flaming. My comments were me trying to understand the issue. It's the same (as Counterpunch pointed out earlier) as with "fag". It's totally OK in the UK, but over here, it's incredibly offensive. Any word can be made offensive with the right spin.

Also, we don't even now for sure that this is the final name. What we saw at BBTS was probably a package mock up. Until we see a stolen version, I'm still skeptical.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:It's the same (as Counterpunch pointed out earlier) as with "fag". It's totally OK in the UK, but over here, it's incredibly offensive.

Fair point, and apologies for the outburst - was not aimed at you.

(To me, the word 'fag' is pretty harmless - heck, it can be used as slang for a cigarette!)

So, i respect an Americans feelings in relation to the misuse of that term - i would expect the same courtesy be extended to us by Hasbro in relation to 'spastic'

As I have said in a similar thread on the topic, a word can be offensive by the way it is used. As a Australian I don't find the word offensive as I use it more in the way the US does.

Jimmy Drift wrote:And the flaming continues.

Why can't you guys accept that a lot of people from UK/Ireland/Australia find this word offensive?

Words only have the meaning that people give them. If they let a word offend them then that word will remain offensive. It's nothing more than calling someone a poo head, they're just words that only bother someone if they let them. I don't see why everyone has to watch what they say because some people can't deal with a few syllables.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:People are too sensitive over childish insults and that reaction only strengthens the word's power. I don't think Hasbro should have to research what every word means in every country just so they won't offend someone who decided to let bother them. What will happen if someone decides that Soundwave if offensive to deaf people, or Bulkhead is offensive to people with ample craniums?

I point out again that Spastic was used so much as an insult that the charity changed it's name to remove the word Spastic. Spastic used to be the official word but is now seen as offensive.¡ That's slightly different to calling someone a poo head. There has been so much insulting that the word changed meaning!

Bulkhead is a part of a ship. Soundwave is a physical term. As yet these are not considered insults to people. Maybe in a few decades this will change and the discussion will start again over these names. Language changes:

Counterpunch wrote:

Mykltron wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Comparing the n-word to "spaz" is a poor comparison. One was created with the intent to be demeaning the other was created with a non-offensive intent.

Not so. My theory was that, as many French people settled in the south (EG New Orleans, from the French town Orlèan), the N word was an Americanised pronunciation of the the French word for black people - nègre. Afterwards if became perjorative. According to Wikipedia I was close:

wiki wrote:The word originated as a term used in a neutral context to refer to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger, meaning the color "black".

Add to that today's obsession with equal rights and political correctness and, well, maybe comparing the two isn't totally fair but for us Brits it's not THAT far off.

Like most other people who don't live in the US and/or are not African American, you clearly do not understand the difference between the word "Negro" and the N-word.

We aren't talking about a word that was co-opted by a 1980's television show here, we're talking about an entirely different thing here. Of course there is a Latin root to it all and of course there is some derivative from past languages, but the word was used entirely to set aside a group of people and set them aside in a derisive way.

When those slaves were brought to the Americas, they were not seen as Africans or as any name specific to where they came from, they were bundled into one word that defined their new station.

Again, the situation with that word and "spaz" is entirely different and there is NO comparison between the situation.

I still disagree. When wiki says 'The word originated as a term used in a neutral context' I understand this as meaning the N word was originally used neutrally, then became insulting later. Perhaps the article is badly written and I've misunderstood but if I understand correctly then both words started neutrally and evolved to become offensive. There lies the similarity, the difference being that one word was allowed to go much, much farther. I'm not taking any moral/immoral ground here, just discussing etymology! If someone can find evidence that the N word didn't begin neutrally than I shall revoke my argument.

Pretender Skywarp wrote:Have we seen the bio for this one yet?

I would be very interested in seeing if his character is described as "clumsy" or "oafish". If I understand correctly, that would fit in contextually with the US use of the word?

...and make it worse for people over here! Have you ever seen someone with cerebral palsy? They have no co-ordination. This is where your word spaz comes from. Playing like a spaz (Tiger Woods) means playing like someone with a mental problem.



To people who are not offended by the word spastic, please consider this:
I live in England and I am not offended by the N word. I am amazed that you are so offended by the word that I can't even spell it out in full in a discussion about language being offensive. If I was writing a paper about the etymology of the N word I would have to use it but here I will be flamed despite the lack of offensive intent. You probably cannot comprehend my lack of offense over this word but I assure you it has nothing to do with racism on my part! One of my favourite dance partners is a black lady.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

Jimmy Drift wrote:And the flaming continues.

Why can't you guys accept that a lot of people from UK/Ireland/Australia find this word offensive?

Words only have the meaning that people give them. If they let a word offend them then that word will remain offensive. It's nothing more than calling someone a poo head, they're just words that only bother someone if they let them. I don't see why everyone has to watch what they say because some people can't deal with a few syllables.

I don't entirely disagree with this, however, replace "poo head" in your post with the N word and you'd probably upset a lot of people.

I sort of see the point though. I mean, lord forbid a company based in a primarily English speaking country worry about what a word means in England (and the rest of the UK, but I'm simplifying for you all).

When used as nouns there are certain words which can change their meanings [sometimes depending on the region]. Jerk, prick, pansy etc. are all non-offensive when used as verbs but you would take offense if you were referred to as such. Usually there isn't a problem when naming TFs, either because Hasbro is careful when vetting possible names or through dumb luck. This is one of those unusual circumstances.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:Seaspray to people with motion sickness

lol, gross!

Mykltron wrote:

kirbenvost wrote:I dunno, isn't the n-word just as offensive over there?

Not in areas I've lived. Maybe in run-down city areas with lots of black people. KKK didn't really happen here. I shall ask my black friends when I see then what they think about it.

It has more to do with slavery of black people in general rather than the KKK. The term existed before then.

Mykltron wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Mykltron wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Comparing the n-word to "spaz" is a poor comparison. One was created with the intent to be demeaning the other was created with a non-offensive intent.

Not so. My theory was that, as many French people settled in the south (EG New Orleans, from the French town Orlèan), the N word was an Americanised pronunciation of the the French word for black people - nègre. Afterwards if became perjorative. According to Wikipedia I was close:

wiki wrote:The word originated as a term used in a neutral context to refer to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger, meaning the color "black".

Add to that today's obsession with equal rights and political correctness and, well, maybe comparing the two isn't totally fair but for us Brits it's not THAT far off.

Like most other people who don't live in the US and/or are not African American, you clearly do not understand the difference between the word "Negro" and the N-word.

We aren't talking about a word that was co-opted by a 1980's television show here, we're talking about an entirely different thing here. Of course there is a Latin root to it all and of course there is some derivative from past languages, but the word was used entirely to set aside a group of people and set them aside in a derisive way.

When those slaves were brought to the Americas, they were not seen as Africans or as any name specific to where they came from, they were bundled into one word that defined their new station.

Again, the situation with that word and "spaz" is entirely different and there is NO comparison between the situation.

I still disagree. When wiki says 'The word originated as a term used in a neutral context' I understand this as meaning the N word was originally used neutrally, then became insulting later. Perhaps the article is badly written and I've misunderstood but if I understand correctly then both words started neutrally and evolved to become offensive. There lies the similarity, the difference being that one word was allowed to go much, much farther. I'm not taking any moral/immoral ground here, just discussing etymology! If someone can find evidence that the N word didn't begin neutrally than I shall revoke my argument.

Where the Wikipedia article is unclear is when the word evolved from the neutral 'Negro' to the N-word as we know it. It evolved from a simple word used to refer to a group of people, to a derogatory term. In essence, the process is the same as the current topic at hand, but the big difference is that as it evolved it became a new word, one which is completely derogatory, whereas this transformer name is still used in some areas without any derogatory meaning.

Aaaaanyway, that's going way off on a different tangent.

Pretender Skywarp wrote:As an aside, I can't see them going to all the trouble to rename, re-trademark and repackage, given the way the European market is treated at the best of times, this'll be skipped.

Well it's still very early and they may be only mockups at this point, so maybe they can change it. But I guess you have a point, considering how much stuff doesn't get released there, they might just skip it.

Mykltron wrote:

Pretender Skywarp wrote:Have we seen the bio for this one yet?

I would be very interested in seeing if his character is described as "clumsy" or "oafish". If I understand correctly, that would fit in contextually with the US use of the word?

...and make it worse for people over here! Have you ever seen someone with cerebral palsy? They have no co-ordination. This is where your word spaz comes from. Playing like a spaz (Tiger Woods) means playing like someone with a mental problem.

That was more of an effort on my part to understand the US use and Hasbros' possible intentions. I guess there are just some things that don't translate or have entirely different meanings.

Could you imagine showing one of the old Harry Enfield "Wayne & Waynetta" sketches to an American Gay Rights Group? "I'm having a faaagggggg", would probably be treated with the same disdain as "spastic" would be in the UK.

Pretender Skywarp wrote:

Mykltron wrote:

Pretender Skywarp wrote:Have we seen the bio for this one yet?

I would be very interested in seeing if his character is described as "clumsy" or "oafish". If I understand correctly, that would fit in contextually with the US use of the word?

...and make it worse for people over here! Have you ever seen someone with cerebral palsy? They have no co-ordination. This is where your word spaz comes from. Playing like a spaz (Tiger Woods) means playing like someone with a mental problem.

That was more of an effort on my part to understand the US use and Hasbros' possible intentions. I guess there are just some things that don't translate or have entirely different meanings.

Could you imagine showing one of the old Harry Enfield "Wayne & Waynetta" sketches to an American Gay Rights Group? "I'm having a faaagggggg", would probably be treated with the same disdain as "spastic" would be in the UK.

Have to weigh in on this, since some people obviously don't 'get' what the problem is here.

It's not that 'spastic' is a word British people find 'offensive'; it's that it's a word that has been heavily used to victimise a vulnerable group, same as 'fag' and 'nigger', and is therefore deeply hurtful to a large number of people who have been systematically bullied through its use. Tracing the etymology of the words and saying they aren't exactly the same is completely missing the point. When you jokingly call your mate a 'spaz' or 'spastic', you're implicitly reinforcing the idea that people with cerebral palsy are idiots who don't deserve respect.

In this sense, the only difference between the UK and the US is that we've cottoned onto the fact that it's a word charged with hate and discrimination, while US peeps apparently think it's OK so long as you use it in a light-hearted fashion. Sure, go ahead and keep using it as long as you think it's OK that your actions contribute towards people feeling excluded, depressed and sometimes even suicidal. Pretend it's their problem and not yours.

So to be clear, I'm not personally 'offended' when I hear someone call someone else a spastic; I just think "What an utter prick."

A clarification on 'fag' as well. It's only inoffensive in the UK when used to refer to a cigarette. The word is just as charged with hate when used to refer to gay people (except, of course, when it's gay people using it in an effort to reclaim the word).

this is a repaint right? I really hope the mould has held up well, because it'll be pretty bad for Hasbro if the figure has loose joints. just saying, y'know?

edit: I'm curious that the article linked to was from the Daily Record, surely the Daily Mail has got to get on board with this?

A point of clarification should be made...people in the US are not lacking any sensitivity towards those with a disability, plasy, or severe handicap. We get just as offended when groups with no way to defend themselves against verbal attack are so attacked. The words are different, but the outrage is still the same.

It boils down not to a matter of sensitivity, but rather of diction. The offending word has little to no meaning in the US or much of the world. Apparently it's quite offensive in the UK, that's not being argued against.

It's a matter of "Your taboo, is not our taboo."

Should the name be changed for a UK release? Absolutely.

Should the people in the UK understand that the way they see the word isn't the majority view point? Absolutely.

Is the mold that is in question the best PCC figure to date? Absolutely.

Erm actually its probably more the rest of the world where English is the spoken language(IE ex-common wealth) as they all have the same dictionary used in England as a basic tool to describe the menaing of a word.

It really is only America where there is a divurgance from standardised English due to the fact that they broke away much sooner. The words meaning is the same in Asutralia, New Zealand, Malta, The faulklands, Seychelles, Ireland, Kenya etc etc as it is in the UK (we have noticed the Aussies posting on this too dont worry).

Hasbro just needs to start thinking like the large global conglomerate organisation it pertains to be with cross border branding and actually hire proper researchers as well as proof readers who can actaully do such a simple thing as use google/bing/infoseek/chrome/lycos or what ever search engine the use.

Gone are the days when the US HQ can bury its head in the sand and say it was an over sight as way back when they had a proper European, UK, etc offices which dealt with things like renaming.

Since they changed thier business model and took all back in house and these branches are now used as little more than distribution hubs.

Still could have been worse, they could have called it Jihad or named it after a religous prophet of some kind, that would have been a real bone head move.

As for the Scottish paper, I dont think any of the major paper shave caught wind of this but there is an aweful lot of chatter on twitter about it now from non-transformer fans.

Neurie wrote:Erm actually its probably more the rest of the world where English is the spoken language(IE ex-common wealth) as they all have the same dictionary used in England as a basic tool to describe the menaing of a word.

Isn't it the result of a British TV show that the word took on this meaning?

This is a localization of a word's use, nothing more.

kirbenvost wrote:

Mykltron wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Mykltron wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Comparing the n-word to "spaz" is a poor comparison. One was created with the intent to be demeaning the other was created with a non-offensive intent.

Not so. My theory was that, as many French people settled in the south (EG New Orleans, from the French town Orlèan), the N word was an Americanised pronunciation of the the French word for black people - nègre. Afterwards if became perjorative. According to Wikipedia I was close:

wiki wrote:The word originated as a term used in a neutral context to refer to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger, meaning the color "black".

Add to that today's obsession with equal rights and political correctness and, well, maybe comparing the two isn't totally fair but for us Brits it's not THAT far off.

Like most other people who don't live in the US and/or are not African American, you clearly do not understand the difference between the word "Negro" and the N-word.

We aren't talking about a word that was co-opted by a 1980's television show here, we're talking about an entirely different thing here. Of course there is a Latin root to it all and of course there is some derivative from past languages, but the word was used entirely to set aside a group of people and set them aside in a derisive way.

When those slaves were brought to the Americas, they were not seen as Africans or as any name specific to where they came from, they were bundled into one word that defined their new station.

Again, the situation with that word and "spaz" is entirely different and there is NO comparison between the situation.

I still disagree. When wiki says 'The word originated as a term used in a neutral context' I understand this as meaning the N word was originally used neutrally, then became insulting later. Perhaps the article is badly written and I've misunderstood but if I understand correctly then both words started neutrally and evolved to become offensive. There lies the similarity, the difference being that one word was allowed to go much, much farther. I'm not taking any moral/immoral ground here, just discussing etymology! If someone can find evidence that the N word didn't begin neutrally than I shall revoke my argument.

Where the Wikipedia article is unclear is when the word evolved from the neutral 'Negro' to the N-word as we know it. It evolved from a simple word used to refer to a group of people, to a derogatory term. In essence, the process is the same as the current topic at hand, but the big difference is that as it evolved it became a new word, one which is completely derogatory, whereas this transformer name is still used in some areas without any derogatory meaning.

You seem to be saying that the N word was invented as an insult. Do I understand you correctly?

Wiki says:
'Nigger is a noun ... The word originated as a term used in a neutral context to refer to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger,'
and to me this suggests that niger and negro evolved into nigger, which later became used as an insult.

However, etymonline says:
'From the earliest usage it was "the term that carries with it all the obloquy and contempt and rejection which whites have inflicted on blacks" [cited in Gowers, 1965]'
but goes on to say:
'But as black inferiority was at one time a near universal assumption in English-speaking lands, the word in some cases could be used without deliberate insult.'

I think calling Hasbro UK "little more than a distibution hub" is actually a great exaggeration and giving them far more credit than they deserve. I'd share the words I find more accurate to describe them, but I know I'd offend more people.

I dont think so Counterpunch, but if it was when it would have aired it would probably have been braodcast to all the English speaking counties in the Common Wealth at that time, so would have have been very wide spread trough out English speaking countries.

Counterpunch wrote:

Neurie wrote:Erm actually its probably more the rest of the world where English is the spoken language(IE ex-common wealth) as they all have the same dictionary used in England as a basic tool to describe the menaing of a word.

Isn't it the result of a British TV show that the word took on this meaning?

This is a localization of a word's use, nothing more.

Neurie wrote:I dont think so Counterpunch, but if it was when it would have aired it would probably have been braodcast to all the English speaking counties in the Common Wealth at that time, so would have have been very wide spread trough out English speaking countries.

I'm not following this. Is what the result of a British TV show that the word took on this meaning? Are you asking if 'spastic' has been associated with a handicap? Cos that word and meaning dates back to 1896.