The Energon Pub

Shadowman wrote:And PS, I've only ever heard it called "cerebral palsy." I've never heard the term "spastic" attached to it.

Same here. And I've heard "cerebral" used plenty of times with no connection to any form of disability.

Just to prove hasbro aren't the only company to drop the ball on character names check this out fromthe house of mouse:
http://www.disneycarstoys.net/disney-ca ... mater-toys

That's right Teki and PAKI.

Not very PC mr mouse again some thing which probably won't see light of day in Europe I'm not sure if calling some one Paki in America is as offensive as it is over here to our Indian, Pakistani and Bangladesh community

Neurie wrote:Not very PC mr mouse again some thing which probably won't see light of day in Europe I'm not sure if calling some one Paki in America is as offemsive as it is over here to our Indian, Pakistani and Bangladesh community

Nope, never heard it used as an insult over here.

Shadowman wrote:Jack, let me explain something that you aren't quite grasping. You live on your side of the Atlantic, I live on my side. This is a cultural difference, and you have no place telling me what words are okay and what words aren't. In our culture, the word "spastic" carries little to no weight at all. It does over there, sure, I can accept that, and bravo to Hasbro for avoiding what sounds like a PR apocalypse.

But America is not bound to your laws. Don't try to tell me I can't say a word because YOUR culture doesn't like it.

And PS, I've only ever heard it called "cerebral palsy." I've never heard the term "spastic" attacked to it.

Thank you. Essentially I can't add to anything you or Dagon have already said.

Except in adding that I have a great-uncle with CP, and we simply have always referred to it as exactly that - CP as the slang. Why we'd even need another word so far removed from CP as "spastic" when we have "CP" is beyond me. The UK usage is foreign to us.

The term is so benign here that several members have already chimed in saying they named their pets "Spaz" *just like the dog's name in the live action "Spawn" movie from several years back.*

Shadowman wrote:

Neurie wrote:Not very PC mr mouse again some thing which probably won't see light of day in Europe I'm not sure if calling some one Paki in America is as offemsive as it is over here to our Indian, Pakistani and Bangladesh community

Nope, never heard it used as an insult over here.

Agreed.

Here's some food for thought:

Imagine TakTomy release the 5-pack in question with 'Fag and the Stunticons' emblazoned across the front of the box.

See my point?

Jimmy Drift wrote:Here's some food for thought:

Imagine TakTomy release the 5-pack in question with 'Fag and the Stunticons' emblazoned across the front of the box.

See my point?

Your "food for thought" is stale and moldy. It's been compared many times before.

And nobody is even debating whether the name should have been changed or not. The point anymore is the damnation that everyone is casting down upon our side of the Atlantic for the word not meaning the same here. It's absolutely bizarre that we've been called insensitive because it doesn't offend us in the same manner. Not only bizarre, but quite stupid.

Like I said, I could care less what the word means there. Be offended if you must, Hasbro has already done their part. But don't you dare cast your beliefs on me or anyone here for not being outraged about a word with little actual meaning to us. And don't you dare *tell us* that we're wrong and you are right. We have our usage and it's entirely unrelated, so stop already.

Pontimax 01 wrote:

Jimmy Drift wrote:Here's some food for thought:

Imagine TakTomy release the 5-pack in question with 'Fag and the Stunticons' emblazoned across the front of the box.

See my point?

Your "food for thought" is stale and moldy. It's been compared many times before.

And nobody is even debating whether the name should have been changed or not. The point anymore is the damnation that everyone is casting down upon our side of the Atlantic for the word not meaning the same here. It's absolutely bizarre that we've been called insensitive because it doesn't offend us in the same manner. Not only bizarre, but quite stupid.

Like I said, I could care less what the word means there. Be offended if you must, Hasbro has already done their part. But don't you dare cast your beliefs on me or anyone here for not being outraged about a word with little actual meaning to us. And don't you dare *tell us* that we're wrong and you are right. We have our usage and it's entirely unrelated, so stop already.

Calm down there dude - when did i 'cast my beliefs' on you?

And i never told you that you're wrong - from a personal standpoint, i've stated my opinion on this matter on a number of occasions in this thread.

It is a discussion, after all - you can think what you like.

Pontimax 01 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

Neurie wrote:Not very PC mr mouse again some thing which probably won't see light of day in Europe I'm not sure if calling some one Paki in America is as offemsive as it is over here to our Indian, Pakistani and Bangladesh community

Nope, never heard it used as an insult over here.

Agreed.

I have heard "Packy" used as an insult for Pakistanis etc, but in defense of Disney, those characters are japanese and Paki wouldnt be pronounced "Pack-y" it would be more pronounced like "Paw Key" as the japanese don't quite have the same pronunciation structure as english speakers do. Ive also never seen the insult spelled the way the disney character's name is spelled, granted it makes sense why one would draw the connection based on spelling alone.

Some people here are posting in a really spastic manner.

I suppose I'll be deleting some posts now.

I thank the above moderator for proving my point. 'Spastic' is clearly an insult in both countries.

Forget what the word means in Britain. Concentrate on its impact in America.

Fact: if there are Americans who have been told by their doctor that they suffer from spastic cerebral palsy or a similarly named condition and who therefore think of 'spastic' as being part of who they are, then widespread use of it as a casual rebuff to mean 'clumsy' or 'klutzy' or 'foolish' marginalises them.

That's all that's going on here. The only way you can argue it's not harmful is if these Americans don't exist because you have completely different medical terms.

Jack_Cade wrote:I thank the above moderator for proving my point. 'Spastic' is clearly an insult in both countries.

It's not.

You're wrong.

That's all there is to it.

Jack_Cade wrote:I thank the above moderator for proving my point. 'Spastic' is clearly an insult in both countries.

Forget what the word means in Britain. Concentrate on its impact in America.

'Spastic' is clearly an insult in Ireland/UK/Australia etc., but please don't try to make the word an insult in America too.

It's not offensive to our American brethren - so just let it go, already.

Jimmy Drift wrote:

Jack_Cade wrote:I thank the above moderator for proving my point. 'Spastic' is clearly an insult in both countries.

Forget what the word means in Britain. Concentrate on its impact in America.

'Spastic' is clearly an insult in Ireland/UK/Australia etc., but please don't try to make the word an insult in America too.

It's not offensive to our American brethren - so just let it go, already.

::Cross-Atlantic High Five::

Counterpunch wrote:It's not.

You're wrong.

Oh, so describing my post as 'spastic' was a compliment, was it? You say one thing and do another.

Meanwhile, what do we have here?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spastic

This is all UK site, is it? Oh wait - "founded in 1999 by Aaron Peckham while he was a freshman computer science major at California Polytechnic State University".

Jimmy Drift wrote:'Spastic' is clearly an insult in Ireland/UK/Australia etc., but please don't try to make the word an insult in America too.

According to the above link, it's similar in meaning to: retard idiot stupid mong crazy moron spacker fool spazz tard special **** loser spack mental hyper dumb drunk flid gimp fag bitch dumbass twat slow **** **** wanker tool window licker random spas nerd dickhead weird annoying joey cripple slut ugly dick **** freak downy and downer.

I guess none of those are insults in the US either.

And just in case there's still a denial floating around that it has anything to do with cerebral palsy, here's the New York Times website's list of alternative names for cerebral palsy:

Spastic paralysis; Paralysis - spastic; Spastic hemiplegia; Spastic diplegia; Spastic quadriplegia

First, it does not have those meanings to us in the US. But if you want ot believe UrbanDictionary instead of something like Merriam Webster, well go ahead. Plain and simple, spastic is equivalent to clumbsy in the US. And if calling someone clumbsy is an insult, well I'm sorry, because there are a lot worse things to be called than that (using US based insults at least).

Second, it seems all your posts are on this subject...if you joined to simply rile up the members of this board, well I have a problem with that.

Jack_Cade wrote:According to the above link, it's similar in meaning to: retard idiot stupid mong crazy moron spacker fool spazz tard special **** loser spack mental hyper dumb drunk flid gimp fag bitch dumbass twat slow **** **** wanker tool window licker random spas nerd dickhead weird annoying joey cripple slut ugly dick **** freak downy and downer.

I guess none of those are insults in the US either.

Never heard "mong" or "spack/spacker" (I'm guessing they're related?) before. "Special" is only an insult in context. "Mental" hasn't been used as an insult since the '90s. "Hyper" isn't an insult, just when someone is acting overly energetic. "Drunk" isn't an insult, it's the state of mind when you imbibe too much alcohol. Never heard "flid" before. "Wanker" I know for a fact is not an insult over here, no one actually uses it. A "window" is that piece of glass that separates the inside of your house form the outside while letting you see out. "Licker" is an enemy from Resident Evil, "Spas" is a type of shotgun (French made), "Joey" is just a regular name, "cripple" isn't an insult, "downy" is a brand of fabric softener, and a "downer" is just something that makes you sad.

Are you starting to get it? Cultural differences. It's true, you really ARE an outsider looking in. You have no clue what can and can't fly in our country but you keep attacking us like you do. Chill out and accept we're two different countries.

GetterDragun wrote:And if calling someone clumbsy is an insult ...

Yes, it is. Thank you. I never said it had to be a particularly harsh or strong insult. But it is a derogatory term. 'Clumsy' is derogatory. You don't call someone 'clumsy' unless you're criticising them bluntly in some way.

Shadowman wrote:Are you starting to get it?

I've always 'got it'. The question is: when will you guys get it? You use 'spastic' the same way you use 'clumsy', ergo it is a mild insult, ergo you are giving it negative connotations.

If you absolutely insist that something only counts as an 'insult' if it's really harsh, then fine, I'll just say 'spastic' is derogatory or a negative descriptor or a criticism. It doesn't change the argument one jot. If you use a word as a derogatory term/negative descriptor/criticism and that word also *properly* describes a group of people (see the NYTimes definitions) then the negative charge of the word carries through to the people and has a marginalising effect.

So tell me, when is the lightbulb going to come on, guys? Can you honestly not see beyond the apparent 'harshness/mildness' of a negative word and ask yourselves what its unnoticed effects are?

Shadowman wrote:You have no clue what can and can't fly in our country...

See, this is why I'm being all narky. Because it has nothing to do with 'what can and can't fly' in your country. It's irrelevant. I get that you guys call each other 'spaz' and 'spastic' all the time and none of you able-bodied people gets riled up about it. That's not my point. That has never been my point. And what I find really disturbing is that you all seem to be of the mindset of: "Well, *I* don't find it insulting, and neither do my friends, or their friends, so how can it possible by a problem?"

You'll excuse me from holding off on other topics at least until someone here shows they've got the nous to understand what I'm saying, rather than constantly thinking this is about whether 'spastic' is a harsh thing to call someone in the US.

Jack, let me put this in the simplest possible way I can: America has a different culture from the UK. We treat words differently from you. You need to accept that. No amount of arguing is going to change it.

Shadowman, let me put this as simply as I can: the different cultures thing is a complete red herring, a dead horse as far as this debate goes. I completely accept that you guys use 'spastic' to mean 'clumsy' or 'klutzy' and that you could call your own mother a spaz in a fit of pique and she probably wouldn't take offence. There's no argument about that, so telling me it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again is a waste of your breath.

But it makes no difference to the point I'm making. I'm absolutely baffled as to why none of you guys can get your heads round the fact that just because you don't find the word 'offensive' doesn't mean it's harmless. Why can't you get out of your own perspective for a moment and put yourself in the mind of an American who has spastic cerebral palsy, who has grown up in your country hearing the name of their condition constantly used to mean 'clumsy' or 'oafish'?

Suppose I start a trend for using the word 'American' to mean 'a teeny bit slow on the uptake'. Suppose it takes off in a big way and you suddenly find that everyone in the world is going round saying things like: "Wow, I came last. I'm so American at this game." "Our son's not doing well at school. He's a bit American, to be honest." "Wow, you're so clever you make other people look like Americans." "Hold on, go through that again would you - sorry, I'm being American." "Oh man, when it comes to maths, I'm a total American."

Wonder how you guys would feel about that after hearing it for a lifetime or two.

Jack_Cade wrote:Shadowman, let me put this as simply as I can: the different cultures thing is a complete red herring, a dead horse as far as this debate goes. I completely accept that you guys use 'spastic' to mean 'clumsy' or 'klutzy' and that you could call your own mother a spaz in a fit of pique and she probably wouldn't take offence. There's no argument about that, so telling me it again and again and again and again and again and again and again is a waste of your breath.

Oh good, so you finally got it. Now please, stop telling me what words I can use and what words I can't. It's getting extraordinarily irritating.

EDIT: This was posted way back on page 13:

Quaternion wrote:I have the medical condition called spasticity in my legs due to multiple sclerosis. I didn't find the name offensive. In fact, I thought it was pretty funny. I might actually buy the toy just for the name. I think the world takes itself too seriously. Lighten up, human race.

Jack_Cade has an agenda.

It's probably best if everyone ignores him since he's effectively trolling the entire conversation.

Man I hope there are a few samples in a Spastic box up for grabs, I find this whole thing hilarious and need the figure just for the name.

Jack_Cade wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:And if calling someone clumbsy is an insult ...

Yes, it is. Thank you. I never said it had to be a particularly harsh or strong insult. But it is a derogatory term. 'Clumsy' is derogatory. You don't call someone 'clumsy' unless you're criticising them bluntly in some way.

See, this is wrong. There's a difference between insulting someone by being derogatory versus basic critiscim. If this wasn't the case, we should go back and edit all the G1 Cartoons to remove the term Decepticreep, because that is a derogatory insult.

Jack_Cade wrote:You'll excuse me from holding off on other topics at least until someone here shows they've got the nous to understand what I'm saying, rather than constantly thinking this is about whether 'spastic' is a harsh thing to call someone in the US.

Great idea in fact, I'm going to enforce it. If I see another post in this thread from you I'll issue a warning. This has been a civilized discussion up to this point and I want to keep it that way.

Dead Metal wrote:Man I hope there are a few samples in a Spastic box up for grabs, I find this whole thing hilarious and need the figure just for the name.

Seeing they took a picture of one, I'm guessing there are at least a few out there. Of course, any sellers will undoubtedly try to cash in on the publicity.