The Energon Pub

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Megatron has never had a consistent look across all reinventions of the franchise. A great MANY characters and names have not had a consistent or even quasi-consistent look across all reinventions of the franchise, and if you can't deal with that then tough slag. Optimus, Jazz, and Bumblebee are exceptions. So the movieverse was simply following precedent. And honestly, Movie Megs essentially had a movie-stylized version of the original's buckethead, in his first body.

Bumblebee does not prove anything other than Travis Knight being a drooling rabid GEEWUNNER corrupting the established movieverse to appeal to rabid GEEWUNNERs instead of letting it be its own thing and fixing it on its own terms. The Bumblebee movie needs to be either heavily altered or stricken from the canon entirely. because it does to the series what Bumblebee did to Seymour Simmons (which was a dumb bit, admittedly, but still). Also, from the screenshots I've seen, Bungledbee's Cybertron footage looks like videogame-grade CGI, not photorealistic movie-grade CGI which looks like crap in what's supposed to be a live-action movie and makes it as garbage as the cloud-of-squares "transformations" from Age of Extinction. And it goes against continuity.
The reason that the robots get relatively little screen-time in the first movie is because of budget. Convincing photorealistic CGI, especially of complex giant robots, IS BLOODY EXPENSIVE. And the first movie had the added costs of developing the aesthetic and the specific rigging and rendering for it.

At this point I'm feeling spiteful enough towards the Bumblebee movie's rabid GEEWUNnery that I want to see SS38's mold melted down and recast as molds for Bumper Battlers.

[no-one]

picture "borrowed" words added

I really hope this design gets an MPM.

[ZeroWolf]

I suspect it will at one point, and Cyberpath, why should the designs look like G1? The live action movies are not adaptions of G1.

[Nemesis Primal]

Bumblebee does not prove anything other than Travis Knight being a drooling rabid GEEWUNNER corrupting the established movieverse to appeal to rabid GEEWUNNERs instead of letting it be its own thing and fixing it on its own terms. The Bumblebee movie needs to be either heavily altered or stricken from the canon entirely.

Well since Bumblebee is a confirmed reboot at this point, haven't you gotten exactly what you just said? It's a separate canon, a Beeverse as opposed to the Bayverse, the established movieverse is unrelated.

Also I would absolutely never define myself as a GEEWUNNER, and yet I thought Bumblebee was a massive step in the right direction, so I don't see how the designs have ruined or corrupted anything. My only honest complaint about the movie was that the toys made me think Barricade would be in it and he wasn't. Whether you like the designs or not, Bumblebee was just an actually good movie compared to the Bay films being varying levels of not good, and the new designs are just one of the factors that aided that quality upgrade.

Also I agree with the sentiment that if you're making a movie of a pre-existing franchise, the designs for the characters should still be recognizable unless they're new characters/new interpretations of characters like Barricade or Blackout, that just makes sense, and at this point most of the casual audience who have seen the Bay films will associate those designs with those movies, regardless of if they made better movies with the same designs later. Changing the designs is a good way to make people more interested in the new movies. If the movies look different, that helps people more readily believe that the movies will be different.

[no-one]

The live action movies are not adaptions of G1.

That's crazy, I've always thought they were an adaption of G1 characters and lore into a live action movie.

[Ig89ninja]

The live action movies are not adaptions of G1.

That's crazy, I've always thought they were an adaption of G1 characters and lore into a live action movie.

I believe we have gotten a bit off track, this is a discussion about the movie TOYS not the movies themselves.

[Cyberpath]

I suspect it will at one point, and Cyberpath, why should the designs look like G1? The live action movies are not adaptions of G1.

Ah but it is, and "G1" is The Transformers. G1 is just how they referred to it after the "Generation 2" gimmick (-- older toys in wacky redecos, plus some new figures in the same spirit. And the same cartoon with CGI intro & interludes.)

It tells the story of sentient robots from Cybertron, Autobot and Decepticons, led by Optimus Prime and Megatron respectively. Ending up on Earth, showed around by Witwicky, etc. This was all invented by "G1" (whether package/cartoon/comics.) It was the first and the most iconic. Even now, 30 years later, the toys & merch (Masterpiece, Siege, Combiner Wars, Titans Return, Power of the Prime, statues, etc) are based on the classic material.

One of the films was even straight up based on Megatron's Master Plan.

They can make it however they wish. But it's my opinion that it should have been truer to the original material. Apparently it's a very controversial here.

I really hope this design gets an MPM.

Werking it.

(Yours?)

[Sabrblade]

Spider-Man didn't have to be constantly reinvented year after year in order for that franchise to stay afloat.

"Bumblebee" already proved that they could have used updated classics.

The Hasbro brand team of the time simply wasn't of that mindset. They were always looking to redesign and re-innovate. That's also why the original Classics line from 2006 all had G1 characters in new 21st Century-styled bodies instead of looking more faithful to the 1980s designs, which that team considered to be "outdated" and "out-of-place for the 2000s" (their opinions, not mine).

Blackout and Scorponok were literally in the first scene of the movie.

Hardly comparable to "Bee's" awesome opening act on Cybertron, his crash on Earth, escaping the army men, his run-in with the Decepticon that muted him, and how fast the girl found him. Compared to 30 minutes of Shia Labeouf. I was genuinely bored.

That's not what you said, though. You said that it took too long for the robots to show up onscreen in the first movie when Blackout and Scorponok were both literally in the movie's very first scene.

And there was no way we would have ever gotten an opening scene in 2007 that was like the Bumblebee movie's Cybertron's scene. In 2007, we were still in that "comic book/superhero movies must be super realistic and serious with washed out colors" phase that Fox's X-Men films and Batman Begins had put us through. Those kinds of movies were too scared of being too "comic book-y" out of fear that audiences wouldn't take them seriously enough for them to be considered good. It took the likes of the Avengers movies and other fun MCU films like Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man to really let movies of this genre go all out on the fun and colorful nature of comic books. But before they came along, the 2007 Transformers movie was locked in how the genre was at the time, and its sequels continued to be stuck in that same rut even after the MCU revolutionized things for the better. It wasn't until Bumblebee finally broke away from that mindset that it allowed us to finally have a Transformers movie that wasn't trying so hard to be taken too seriously. And it wasn't because of the G1-based designs, but because of the good solid writing and competent directing rooted in logic and sense.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The Bumblebee movie would still be just as good a movie as it was even if it didn't have the G1-based designs or the Cybertron scenes. Those were just icing on the already very delicious cake.

Also, more of an observation then an argument but I've always been confused when people said they couldn't follow the action as I've never had trouble with that. I thought Megatron's design was good, I mean did you have a problem with Cybertron Megatron? In his original colour scheme, he doesn't look like any past Megatrons. In fact Armada megs didn't look like others either.

Edit: Fixed for spellings

Other than the silver paint I'm not really seeing any similarities, anything that made him stand out as Megatron. The most memorable feature was left out. I didn't appreciate the bug-like faces either.

I think "Bee" did a good job adapting the classic looks for the Bay world. I instantly recognised Wheeljack, Arcee, Soundwave, Cliffjumper, Brawn, etc. And the best part was my favourite character.

You didn't answer his question about Cybertron Megatron.

It was the first

But not the only.

[no-one]

(Yours?)

No and I should have stated that. I "borrowed" the pic and added the words.

[Cyberpath]

That's not what you said, though. You said that it took too long for the robots to show up onscreen in the first movie when Blackout and Scorponok were both literally in the movie's very first scene.

I meant the Autobots, and a proper introduction. Like I already clarified -- what seems like an eternity of Shia Labeouf VS. all the robot action in Bee + how quickly the girl found him once he'd gone into hiding. The former was very boring to me the latter interesting and fun.

And there was no way we would have ever gotten an opening scene in 2007 that was like the Bumblebee movie's Cybertron's scene. In 2007, we were still in that "comic book/superhero movies must be super realistic and serious with washed out colors" phase that Fox's X-Men films and Batman Begins had put us through. Those kinds of movies were too scared of being too "comic book-y" out of fear that audiences wouldn't take them seriously enough for them to be considered good. It took the likes of the Avengers movies and other fun MCU films like Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man to really let movies of this genre go all out on the fun and colorful nature of comic books. But before they came along, the 2007 Transformers movie was locked in how the genre was at the time, and its sequels continued to be stuck in that same rut even after the MCU revolutionized things for the better. It wasn't until Bumblebee finally broke away from that mindset that it allowed us to finally have a Transformers movie that wasn't trying so hard to be taken too seriously. And it wasn't because of the G1-based designs, but because of the good solid writing and competent directing rooted in logic and sense.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The Bumblebee movie would still be just as good a movie as it was even if it didn't have the G1-based designs or the Cybertron scenes. Those were just icing on the already very delicious cake.

Already said the first movies had problems other than the designs. And whatever their reasoning for making the characters so different, I don't have to agree with it.

Also, more of an observation then an argument but I've always been confused when people said they couldn't follow the action as I've never had trouble with that. I thought Megatron's design was good, I mean did you have a problem with Cybertron Megatron? In his original colour scheme, he doesn't look like any past Megatrons. In fact Armada megs didn't look like others either.

Edit: Fixed for spellings

Other than the silver paint I'm not really seeing any similarities, anything that made him stand out as Megatron. The most memorable feature was left out. I didn't appreciate the bug-like faces either.

I think "Bee" did a good job adapting the classic looks for the Bay world. I instantly recognised Wheeljack, Arcee, Soundwave, Cliffjumper, Brawn, etc. And the best part was my favourite character.

You didn't answer his question about Cybertron Megatron.

What's the question here? The guy in the pic doesn't look like Megatron either.

It was the first

But not the only.

So? I think it should have been based on the first and most iconic.

(Yours?)

No and I should have stated that. I "borrowed" the pic and added the words.

I figured; yours are sharper.


Quoting's getting too complicated.

[no-one]

You didn't answer his question about Cybertron Megatron.

I don't care for it nor do I care for most of the Bayverse designs, but I really like the designs of the Prime series which designs and characterizations stray from G1 as much if not more than the movies. It all comes down to a matter of opinions and preferences. Like how some people like Bee Prime more than the original movie Prime. Like it or not Bee Prime is canon now, even if they change him in future movies.

Pretty sure we're all at this point now...

(Yours?)

No and I should have stated that. I "borrowed" the pic and added the words.

I figured; yours are sharper.

Thanks, that means a lot

[ZeroWolf]

It does plus bee being a reboot doesn't mean what people think it does, but we can all thank bees producer for the confusion it's a reboot in that it's telling new stories, but not in that it's keeping to 07 continuity (what with megs being on ice and all )

Now a studio series question since news is a bit thin on the ground this side of SDCC, what's the next wave supposed to be?

[no-one]

Now a studio series question since news is a bit thin on the ground this side of SDCC, what's the next wave supposed to be?

All G1 bots from Bee's intro

a man can dream right?

[Ig89ninja]

Also, did someone ask for a comparison of RotF Devastator, the SS Constructicons, and CW Devastator? If so, I can get a picture up tomorrow night if someone reminds me

Yeah, that was me.

It’s rewind remind time!

[Nemesis Primal]

Now a studio series question since news is a bit thin on the ground this side of SDCC, what's the next wave supposed to be?

The next upcoming wave is Hightower, copter Drift, car Dropkick, Long Haul, KSI Boss, and Leader Optimus. We don't know the wave after that, and then we start getting Constructicons again next year.

[TulioDude]

C'mon HasTak,Blitzwing,you know you wanna make him...

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Bumblebee does not prove anything other than Travis Knight being a drooling rabid GEEWUNNER corrupting the established movieverse to appeal to rabid GEEWUNNERs instead of letting it be its own thing and fixing it on its own terms. The Bumblebee movie needs to be either heavily altered or stricken from the canon entirely.

Well since Bumblebee is a confirmed reboot at this point, haven't you gotten exactly what you just said? It's a separate canon, a Beeverse as opposed to the Bayverse, the established movieverse is unrelated.

1. It is not a confirmed reboot except by the DC Comics "Arbitrarily half changed and half not rather than actually restarted" definition. It changes some things, but despite being called a reboot is obviously still intended to lead up to the first movie's events from what I gather.
2. That is absolutely not what I want. What I want is for the movieverse to be fixed on its own terms and see its story through to the end. If necessary, rewinding to after Dark of the Moon and throwing out Age of Extinction (and regrettably, TLK along with it). But at the very least, doing things like reconciling the lore and answering questions. And bonking Steven Spielberg on the head and locking him in a closet so that they can show what the hell happened to Sam (I would also like to see DOTM Carly replaced by Mikaela, but that's a pipe dream). If Bumblebee is somehow a true reboot, I won't be getting that. If it isn't, then it's just tying things up in knots even worse. So from where I stand it's bad news either way.

Also I would absolutely never define myself as a GEEWUNNER, and yet I thought Bumblebee was a massive step in the right direction, so I don't see how the designs have ruined or corrupted anything.

I consider them a corruption because they contradict the established aesthetic and continuity. Especially the Cybertronian designs and especially especially Soundwave.

Bumblebee was just an actually good movie compared to the Bay films being varying levels of not good, and the new designs are just one of the factors that aided that quality upgrade.

1. Some of the Bay movies are good IMO.
2. Throwing more continuity issues on the pile isn't a quality upgrade in my books. And nor is using a pseudo-reboot to sweep things under the rug or wallpaper over them. An upgrade would be the aformentioned locking of Spielberg in a closet, because Spielberg is one source of the Bayverse's problems. (And if BB is somehow a true reboot and its own thing, that also means it can't be an upgrade for the Bayverse because of it being its own thing. Although they should still lock Spielberg in a closet lest they wind up with some of the same problems all over again)).
3. Nothing was wrong with the old designs except for AoE Galvatron and Drift.

Also I agree with the sentiment that if you're making a movie of a pre-existing franchise, the designs for the characters should still be recognizable unless they're new characters/new interpretations of characters like Barricade or Blackout

1. And you're talking like the rest of the characters somehow can't be new interpretations because...?
2. How were Optimus and Bumblebee not recognizable as-was? Especially Optimus.

Spider-Man didn't have to be constantly reinvented year after year in order for that franchise to stay afloat.

"Bumblebee" already proved that they could have used updated classics.

The Hasbro brand team of the time simply wasn't of that mindset. They were always looking to redesign and re-innovate. That's also why the original Classics line from 2006 all had G1 characters in new 21st Century-styled bodies instead of looking more faithful to the 1980s designs, which that team considered to be "outdated" and "out-of-place for the 2000s" (their opinions, not mine).

Well,the Bayformer designs are radical even by that measure. The Bayformer designs are the way they are because of Paramount's execs and design team, who as outsiders insisted that the complex faux-organic look was necessary to make them more believable as alien lifeforms to people who weren't already Transformers fans. It might seem unnecessary in hindsight, but I can appreciate the work put into developing the aesthetic and I personally rather like it.

Getting back on the subject of toys, I'd love to see pics of SSDOTM Megatron alongside DOTM Leader Sentinel Prime and ROTF Leader Optimus - or the DOTM retool from the Jetwing set.

[Cobotron]

I'll tell you what I don't like about the movies, they get everyone so damn twisted up and angry all the time.

Let's get back on topic y'all. This is the toy thread. Studio Series to be exact.
If you want to continue this, how about we move it to the Bee Movie thread.
Or even start a new thread specific to this debate. That'd be fine.

On topic please.

Here's hoping muscle car Dropkick is better than both Shatter and heli Dropkick.
I'd like to have at least one Bee Movie Con for Bee and Prime to slap around.

[no-one]

Here's hoping muscle car Dropkick is better than both Shatter and heli Dropkick.
I'd like to have at least one Bee Movie Con for Bee and Prime to slap around.

An unadvertised feature of muscle car Shatter is authentic parts falling off battle damage. I'd pick her up (on clearance) just because the alt mode looks so good. Oddly enough I haven't seen any one pegs in a while, but I could build and army of heli-kicks!

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Got those pictures here that were requested showing CW Devastator with movie Constructicons





I cannot wait for a new place, lighting is so hard in this apartment and I don't have any studio room for better pictures

[Ig89ninja]

Got those pictures here that were requested showing CW Devastator with movie Constructicons





I cannot wait for a new place, lighting is so hard in this apartment and I don't have any studio room for better pictures

This gives me a vague hope that a bipedal Studio Series Devastator may JUST be a centimeter or two shorter than Combiner Wars Devy, but that’s just my optimism talking.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

Interesting. Can you do one with CW Devy in gorilla posture?

Also, have you tried true-color CFL or LED bulbs?

[D-Maximal_Primal]

This gives me a vague hope that a bipedal Studio Series Devastator may JUST be a centimeter or two shorter than Combiner Wars Devy, but that’s just my optimism talking.

I very much doubt that SS Devastator will be much taller than the original, but he will be bulkier

Interesting. Can you do one with CW Devy in gorilla posture?

Also, have you tried true-color CFL or LED bulbs?

Hmm, maybe i'll try that tomorrow.

I have tried LEDs, but I don't really have a good place to put an LED light with a good background, it's why almost all my photos are at my desk or my table

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I meant trying them in the ceiling fixture, if there is one.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I meant trying them in the ceiling fixture, if there is one.

Oh the ceiling lights have LEDs. It's just i need them closer and in a better positing for better photos.

Also, have some Smashing good Movie Prime