The Energon Pub

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

No, that should't have been the design in 2007 - the movieverse was a new Transformers universe family, and like all such universes deserved its own style and designs. As such, that Optimus design shouldn't have been the design in 2019 either because this is the movieverse, not Steampunk G1. As for the mouth, most series' Optimus from Primal (discounting the original version of his Ultra Ape toy) onward have had a mouth for the sake of this little thing called expression.

[Cyberpath]

Sunbow Prime managed to be expressive and arguably the most popular Transformer without a month. So much so that viewers even got the network to resurrect him after TFTM (and that was before the Internet!) People loved the original so much that they even got the 2007 people to cast Peter Cullen.

There are lots of well liked mouth-less characters in "G1."

And besides, the irony is, that Bumblebee can't even speak in the films, so which is it -- you need a mouth to be expressive & liked or you don't?

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I was just pointing out the reasoning behind the mouth and that it wasn't unprecedented, in an irritated fashion. It's true that G1 had characters who were facially emotive even though they had mouthplates, although that's in no small part due to mouthplate waggle and being drawn cartoons. ...Also, where did whether characters were liked come into it? I never said a mouthplate made a character less likeable.

I agree that a visible mouth is not strictly necessary for an expressive face, but it does help. And I think with the movies it was considered extra important to show characters' lips moving when they talked, to make them more convincing.

Movieverse Bumblebee does not speak directly much in the films, true (because that washed-out dolt Spielberg is addicted to the radio-talk gimmick), but even he has a moving mouth. It moves whenever he does talk or when makes those "Ooo" vocalizations.

[Sabrblade]

Prime did have symbols on his shoulders in Bumblebee. I re-watched the opening scene today and was impressed how screen-accurate this mold is, and the new Takara deco. This should have been the design already in 2007. (And who's bright idea was it to give him a mouth?) (Oh well!)

That wasn't technologically feasible back then. Red was a color that was extremely difficult to animate in photo-realistic CGI back in 2007. That's why Movie Optimus was originally a blue truck instead of a red one.

It wasn't until 2008's Iron Man that the technology to do the color red properly was perfected, but by then Movie Optimus's design from the 2007 movie was already set in stone and cemented by pop culture as his definitive look for the time.

[TulioDude]

Nothing wrong with the 2007 Optimus design being different from G1.I was though it was pretty cool to give him a mouth with retractable mouth plate.It reminded me of Beast Wars

[ZeroWolf]

I also agree that the movie design was perfect for the new universe. There's plenty of other places to find G1 prime without him being brought in. Hasbro need to feel free to experiment more with styles, instead of constantly going back to the G1 well, afterall the movie verse has never been a direct adaption of the toon.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

I also agree that the movie design was perfect for the new universe. There's plenty of other places to find G1 prime without him being brought in. Hasbro need to feel free to experiment more with styles, instead of constantly going back to the G1 well, afterall the movie verse has never been a direct adaption of the toon.

Without change, there's no evolution
Without evolution, there's only extinction

[william-james88]

Nothing wrong with the 2007 Optimus design being different from G1.I was though it was pretty cool to give him a mouth with retractable mouth plate.It reminded me of Beast Wars

Of all the movie designs I was sure Optimus was the one people had the least of problems with.

Anyways, I wanted to write something here. While I didn't see it on Seibertron, I must say I have been seeing loads of evidence to the double standards the community has towards Hasbro and Takara. Hasbro released a trailer less G1 prime for $50 and everyone lost it. It was an affront to humanity. how could they? They audacity!!! takara does something worse and hey man, its great we want it.

And here is what I mean by worse. To get the Bumblebee Studio Series Prime from hasbro you just have to buy that figure. It's $30 at retail. The $50 trailer Less G1 prime is an individual release which you can take, leave or wait for an eventual sale. Takara is releasing that same two Primes in a two pack for $100. Of course, there is a slight difference. their Bumblebee Prime has a few more paint apps and comes in a G1 style box. But to get it, you have to spend $100 (instead of $30 for the Hasbro release) and you also get that trailer less G1 Prime everyone and their grandma bitched about. And I see very few complaints about that.

Of course, it could also be that those who participate in discussions on takara releases have the means and so its only people of said means that are discussing it while the vitriol towards Hasbro came from fans of humbler means who only buy local and thus dont even pay attention to Takara.

But regardless, I found this whole ordeal unsettling.

[Sabrblade]

Anyways, I wanted to write something here. While I didn't see it on Seibertron, I must say I have been seeing loads of evidence to the double standards the community has towards Hasbro and Takara. Hasbro released a trailer less G1 prime for $50 and everyone lost it. It was an affront to humanity. how could they? They audacity!!! takara does something worse and hey man, its great we want it.

And here is what I mean by worse. To get the Bumblebee Studio Series Prime from hasbro you just have to buy that figure. It's $30 at retail. The $50 trailer Less G1 prime is an individual release which you can take, leave or wait for an eventual sale. Takara is releasing that same two Primes in a two pack for $100. Of course, there is a slight difference. their Bumblebee Prime has a few more paint apps and comes in a G1 style box. But to get it, you have to spend $100 (instead of $30 for the Hasbro release) and you also get that trailer less G1 Prime everyone and their grandma bitched about. And I see very few complaints about that.

What makes you think that Takara isn't also releasing the normal version of Studio Series Bumblebee Optimus at Japanese retail?

They even advertised that normal version in last March's issue of Figure King:

[william-james88]

What makes you think that Takara isn't also releasing the normal version of Studio Series Bumblebee Optimus at Japanese retail?

They even advertised that normal version in last March's issue of Figure King

I forgot. Still, it doesnt change that people need to get that trailer less g1 prime is they want the slight repaint of bumblebee prime in the g1 box. And very few people are complaining about prices when thats all you could hear when we got Hasbro's trailer less Prime. That was my main point.

[Sabrblade]

What makes you think that Takara isn't also releasing the normal version of Studio Series Bumblebee Optimus at Japanese retail?

They even advertised that normal version in last March's issue of Figure King

I forgot. Still, it doesnt change that people need to get that trailer less g1 prime is they want the slight repaint of bumblebee prime in the g1 box. And very few people are complaining about prices when thats all you could hear when we got Hasbro's trailer less Prime. That was my main point.

In this case, though, it's two limited exclusive figures rather than one. I think people find that more justifiable.

On the other hand, we've yet to hear from folks who have already bought the Walmart Optimus and now want this redecoed Bumblebee Optimus, if there are any out there. And if there are, I'd imagine that they'd be bummed about having to get the same trailer-less Optimus that they already again in order to get that Bumblebee Optimus.

Otherwise, most folks may be content to just stick with the retail version, as I honestly haven't seen that many who actually want to drop $100 to get that Optimus. Most responses I've seen have been along the lines of "Ooh, that looks really good and I wouldn't object to having it, but I'm good."

[no-one]

..."I don't get fans"...

No one does. In 2007 the movies weren't G1 enough, now it's "don't get G1 in my TF movie universe!" It's TRUKK not MUNKY all over again. In my experiences most people don't know what they want, but they know what they don't want when they see it.

All joking aside, I get that G1 Prime doesn't belong in the movieverse (even though I prefer that design and agree that's where they should have started in the first place). If you jumped in to TFs in 2007 or just prefer/view the movies to be separate and their own thing, the Bee movie is shoe horning in some unwelcome retconning. Perspective all depends on where you're standing. Different folks, different strokes. Ultimately when it comes down to it, there is no "correct" answer.

I agree that some people have double standards towards Takara, but I think this is more of a different market seeing different products differently. Let's be honest, those sweet G1 boxes make up a lot of the value there. Same for the western releases.

There's a famous quote - “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”. I don't want Takara or Hasbro even trying to please all of the people all of the time. I'd rather they make cool fully realized products that may not appeal to the masses instead of "boring vanilla".

[Jelze Bunnycat]

There's a famous quote - “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”. I don't want Takara or Hasbro even trying to please all of the people all of the time. I'd rather they make cool fully realized products that may not appeal to the masses instead of "boring vanilla".

Or for any fan community:

"You must be this geeky to ride the ride" from Sabrina-Online, September 2006

It's amazing how timeless that comic is...

[william-james88]

Most responses I've seen have been along the lines of "Ooh, that looks really good and I wouldn't object to having it, but I'm good."

yeah exactly, but there was no outrage like there was when Hasbro released an exclusive trailer less prime for $50. Instead people were chastizing hasbro for being greedy. And now takara is doing the same with their release of trailerless g1 prime, instead now its in a two pack for $100. I do think we are saying the same thing though, i just dont get why hasbro gets so much vitriol and takara doesnt.

[no-one]

i just dont get why hasbro gets so much vitriol

Because they make inferior products and are the worst. Jeez

[Sabrblade]

Most responses I've seen have been along the lines of "Ooh, that looks really good and I wouldn't object to having it, but I'm good."

yeah exactly, but there was no outrage like there was when Hasbro released an exclusive trailer less prime for $50. Instead people were chastizing hasbro for being greedy. And now takara is doing the same with their release of trailerless g1 prime, instead now its in a two pack for $100. I do think we are saying the same thing though, i just dont get why hasbro gets so much vitriol and takara doesnt.

I think it's because Hasbro's trailer-less Optimus was revealed first. Had Takara put out theirs before then they might have gotten a similar reaction instead of their Optimus just being viewed as following a precedent already set by Hasbro's.

Though, I admit that Takara putting out the trailer-less one first would have been less likely since it seems that the whole reason Takara's even putting out theirs in the first place is because of the Hasbro already existing, with Takara's version simply being the Japanese equivalent release (with the added bonus of a redecoed Bumblebee Optimus to boot).

[Cyberpath]

I think the characters should have been recognisable from the start. You look at Spider-Man and he actually looks like Spider-Man. And Mysterio.. very true to the source-material. They didn't suddenly add a mouth on his fishbowl.

Megatron was probably the worst offender in the Bayverse, looked nothing like Megatron.. at least add a cannon on his arm or something. But even if you establish a completely new esthetic, make the characters distinguishable from one another.. all those fast-paced action scenes... with over-complicated blobs of cogs and springs.. couldn't follow or care. The designs weren't the only problem.. they didn't introduce the robots till what, 45 minutes into the movie? At least Bumblebee made amends on both accounts. I hope they keep it up. Now it's something that I can actually look forward to.

[Sabrblade]

I think the characters should have been recognisable from the start. You look at Spider-Man and he actually looks like Spider-Man. And Mysterio.. very true to the source-material. They didn't suddenly add a mouth on his fishbowl.

Spider-Man didn't have to be constantly reinvented year after year in order for that franchise to stay afloat.

The designs weren't the only problem.. they didn't introduce the robots till what, 45 minutes into the movie?

Blackout and Scorponok were literally in the first scene of the movie.

[Cyberpath]

Spider-Man didn't have to be constantly reinvented year after year in order for that franchise to stay afloat.

"Bumblebee" already proved that they could have used updated classics.

Blackout and Scorponok were literally in the first scene of the movie.

Hardly comparable to "Bee's" awesome opening act on Cybertron, his crash on Earth, escaping the army men, his run-in with the Decepticon that muted him, and how fast the girl found him. Compared to 30 minutes of Shia Labeouf. I was genuinely bored.

[ZeroWolf]

Also, more of an observation then an argument but I've always been confused when people said they couldn't follow the action as I've never had trouble with that. I thought Megatron's design was good, I mean did you have a problem with Cybertron Megatron? In his original colour scheme, he doesn't look like any past Megatrons. In fact Armada megs didn't look like others either.

Edit: Fixed for spellings

[william-james88]

I'm his original colour scheme.

You are?

[ZeroWolf]

Spider-Man didn't have to be constantly reinvented year after year in order for that franchise to stay afloat.

"Bumblebee" already proved that they could have used updated classics.

Blackout and Scorponok were literally in the first scene of the movie.

Hardly comparable to "Bee's" awesome opening act on Cybertron, his crash on Earth, escaping the army men, his run-in with the Decepticon that muted him, and how fast the girl found him. Compared to 30 minutes of Shia Labeouf. I was genuinely bored.

I think Sabrblade is actually on about how after G1, Hasbro tried G2, then we got Beast Wars, then Beast Machines, then car robots etc etc. Transformers has change literally written into its dna, the movies have gone backwards with this change (though to be honest, Hasbro like to sell toys so they'll change again in the next film to something else)

[ZeroWolf]

I'm his original colour scheme.

You are?

I hate spellcheck.

[Cyberpath]

Also, more of an observation then an argument but I've always been confused when people said they couldn't follow the action as I've never had trouble with that. I thought Megatron's design was good, I mean did you have a problem with Cybertron Megatron? In his original colour scheme, he doesn't look like any past Megatrons. In fact Armada megs didn't look like others either.

Edit: Fixed for spellings

Other than the silver paint I'm not really seeing any similarities, anything that made him stand out as Megatron. The most memorable feature was left out. I didn't appreciate the bug-like faces either.

I think "Bee" did a good job adapting the classic looks for the Bay world. I instantly recognised Wheeljack, Arcee, Soundwave, Cliffjumper, Brawn, etc. And the best part was my favourite character.

⠀

[no-one]

Also, more of an observation then an argument but I've always been confused when people said they couldn't follow the action as I've never had trouble with that.

Well when it's actually on camera *Bee vs Barricade off screen fight while we watch a couple people get chased by a deranged cell phone*

I didn't appreciate the bug-like faces either.

While the robots made of knives never bothered me, the faces kinda killed it. And why did some have to have kissy lips?