The Energon Pub

News Credits: 3 · by **Name_Violation** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:48 pm

I'm constructing a tf tarrot deck. who should be which cards. i want some outside opinions.

News Credits: 4 · by **typh0id** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:16 pm

Unicron should definately be the devil card...

And by the way, I was REALLY hoping, upon viewing this thread, to see a listing for an actual retail TF tarot deck...Now I am sad...I'm not even into Tarot but I think that would be awesome...

News Credits: 1 · by **cybercat** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:49 am

Count me in. I think I made the original suggestion anyway. :wink:

I've been reading tarot cards for like, sheesh, twenty years? So if you want my input, warning: it's from someone who actually wants a deck that can be used as a reading deck.

The reason I say this is that one can easily find a bunch of things alleging to be tarot, but really are just a half-assed deck of playing cards with no real associations. Lots of the anime 'decks' are like this. Can we *not* do that?

Let's see: we should start with the Major Arcana. Here are the major arcana, and a few of the keywords I use in a reading for them to get us started.

We need:
Fool (someone innocent, naive, but hopeful)
Magician (master of the elements, creator through unity)
High Priestess (intuitive knowledge, balance)
Empress (new ideas, pregnancy, female power)
Emperor (decision-maker)
Hierophant (moral judgments, shame)
Lovers (choice, pleasure or duty)
Chariot (swift motion, new energies, outside influences)
Strength (new talents, unexpected abilities surfacing)
Hermit (solitude, isolation)
Justice (the law, poetic justice)
Hanged Man (putting oneself through something unpleasant to learn from it)
Death (change, the end of a project, or phase)
Temperance (the difficult act of balance and moderation)
Devil (physical control, force, anger as controlling force, fear)
The Tower (destruction, major change)
Star (the wish card, hope, 'feminine' side)
Moon (intuition, emotional fluctuations)
Sun (happiness, clarity)
Judgment (The Last Judgment--final reckonings, coming back to life, resurrection)
The World (everything)

Devil should definitely be Megatron. Depending on which continuity we're working on, some of the others are flexible. If Armada, the Hermit should be Starscream, though I'd see him more generally as a guy with Temperance issues. The ladies (Elita One and Arcee) are tossups to me for High Priestess and Empress. The World, definitely Cybertron. Tower, Unicron.

I hope my list at least helps people with better ideas come up with better matches!

HK, tarot geek.

by **ponycorn** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:21 pm

Ok, here is mine based on the G1 cartoon, still stumped on a couple.

Fool (Hot Rod)

Magician (the Matrix)

High Priestess (Shockwave)

Empress (Arcee)

Emperor (Optimus Prime)

Hierophant (The judge Quintesson)

Lovers (choice, pleasure or duty)

Chariot (Blurr)

Strength (Ultra Magnus)

Hermit (Alpha Trion)

Justice (Prowl)

Hanged Man (Megatron)

Death (change, the end of a project, or phase)

Temperance (Jazz)

Devil (Galvatron)

The Tower (Devastator )

Star (Starscream)

Moon (Cliff Jumper)

Sun (Bumblebee)

Judgment (Unicron)

The World (Cybertron)

News Credits: 97 · by **Savage** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:23 pm

Here's my ideas, some better than others.

Fool (Bumblebee)
Magician (Primus)
High Priestess (Elita-1)
Empress (Arcee)
Emperor (Optimus Prime)
Hierophant (Ultra Magnus)
Lovers (Silverbolt & Blackarachnia)
Chariot (Tigerhawk)
Strength (Cheetor)
Hermit (Dreadwind)
Justice (Prowl)
Hanged Man (Rodimus Prime)
Death (The Vok)
Temperance (Punch-Counterpunch)
Devil (Megatron)
The Tower (Unicron)
Star (Botanica)
Moon (Starscream)
Sun (Beachcomber) (or Optimus Primal)
Judgment (Quintesson)
The World (Cybertron)

by **Predaprince** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:00 pm

Fool (Starscream)
Magician (Tigerhawk)
High Priestess (The Oracle)
Empress (Elita-One)
Emperor (Optimus Prime)
Hierophant (Judge Quintesson)
Lovers (Silverbolt and Blackarachnia)
Chariot (Blurr)
Strength (Rodimus Prime)
Hermit (Depth Charge)
Justice (Prowl)
Hanged Man (Dinobot)
Death (Megatron/Galvatron)
Temperance (BM Optimus Primal)
Devil (BW Rampage or The Fallen)
The Tower (Unicron)
Star (Arcee)
Moon (Tigatron)
Sun (Cheetor)
Judgment (The Last Autobot)
The World (Cybertron)

by **Lorekeeper** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:26 pm

Here's my go, I'll try to stay g1:
hmm, lets see, minor arcana...
swords(strife, conflict)=seekers
Page/Prince/Princess: Thundercracker
Knight: Skywarp
Queen: Starscream
King: Starscream

Ace: Sunstorm

pents(worldly wealth and skill)= cassettes
Page/Prince/Princess: Rumble & Frenzy (a few of the decks I've seen use 2 figures on this card)
Knight: Ravage
Queen: Lazerbeak
King: Ratbat
Ace: Soundwave in deck mode? A blank tape? Buzzsaw?

cups(emotions, intuition)= fembots?
Page/Prince/Princess: Arcee
Knight: ?
Queen: ?
King: Elita One
Ace: Ariel?

wands(passions, callings)= special teams/ gestalts
Page/Prince/Princess: ?
Knight: Superion
Queen: ?
King:Predaking (mainly over Devastator because of the "king" right there in his name)
Ace: Devastator (the first one)

Hot Rod: Fool (someone innocent, naive, but hopeful)
Alpha Trion: Magician (master of the elements, creator through unity)
Nightbird? That ninja robot? Blaster?= High Priestess (intuitive knowledge, balance)
Soundwave!= Empress (new ideas, pregnancy, female power)
Megatron= Emperor (decision-maker)
Shockwave= Hierophant (moral judgments, shame)
Springer & Arcee= Lovers (choice, pleasure or duty)
Spacebridge= Chariot (swift motion, new energies, outside influences)
Rodimus Prime= Strength (new talents, unexpected abilities surfacing)
Sky Lynx? Cosmos?= Hermit (solitude, isolation)
Ultra Magnus?= Justice (the law, poetic justice)
Optimus Prime, death of?= Hanged Man (putting oneself through something unpleasant to learn from it)
The Matrix= Death (change, the end of a project, or phase)
Blitzwing= Temperance (the difficult act of balance and moderation)
Galvatron (w/ Cyclonus & Scourge)= Devil (physical control, force, anger as controlling force, fear)
Unicron= The Tower (destruction, major change)
Chromia? = Star (the wish card, hope, 'feminine' side)
Perceptor?= Moon (intuition, emotional fluctuations)
Bumblebee?= Sun (happiness, clarity)
'Till All Are One= Judgment (The Last Judgment--final reckonings, coming back to life, resurrection)
Cybertron= The World (everything)

Looks like we're forming a consensus on some...
still no clue on others.

by **ThunderThruster** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:27 pm

I know Ramrider has been working on one of these for an age now, heres the link to some of his:
http://ramrider.deviantart.com/art/Whee ... s-24943261

by **Lorekeeper** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:43 pm

ThunderThruster wrote:I know Ramrider has been working on one of these for an age now, heres the link to some of his:
http://ramrider.deviantart.com/art/Whee ... s-24943261

Those are nice, although I'm picturing more a literal take-off of the Rider-Waite in my head: part parody, part chaos-magic.

by **Uber Galvatron** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:53 pm

Beast Wars edition:

Fool - Scorponok
Magician - Tigerhawk
High Priestess - Blackarachnia
Empress - Airazor
Emperor - Optimus Primal
Hierophant - Tigertron
Lovers - Blackarachnia and Silverbolt
Chariot - Rampage
Strength - Rattrap
Hermit - Tarantulas
Justice - Depthcharge
Hanged Man - Waspinator
Death - The Vok
Temperance - Dinobot
Devil - Megatron
The Tower - The Nemesis
Star - Transmutate
Moon - Rhinox
Sun - Cheetor
Judgment - The Tripredacus Council
The World - Cybertron

News Credits: 49 · by **Senor Hugo** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:00 am

You do know that making a tarot deck for yourself, won't work as well(if at all) as one chosen and given to you by someone, right?

by **Primus C-00** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:19 pm

Another person with the self same idea!

So many peoples with so many ideas.

:APPLAUSE:

I say we all make our tarots, and carry thema around with us.

I'll have to excavate my note book, which I believe used Crowley's Book of Thoth and the accompanying book to solidfy choice.

I know I had Grimlock as the Fool.

:-P

by **Lorekeeper** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:04 am

Senor Hugo wrote:You do know that making a tarot deck for yourself, won't work as well(if at all) as one chosen and given to you by someone, right?

That is one popular tradition.

But this is an exercise in fun, I would think.

News Credits: 49 · by **Senor Hugo** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:57 am

Lorekeeper wrote:
Senor Hugo wrote:You do know that making a tarot deck for yourself, won't work as well(if at all) as one chosen and given to you by someone, right?

That is one popular tradition.

But this is an exercise in fun, I would think.

I would think so as well. But tarot decks being 'tools' are meant to be used.

So I figured to pass along that popular tradition that does seem to work.

Never used tarot decks myself, I stick with the runes.

News Credits: 1 · by **cybercat** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:58 am

Senor Hugo wrote:You do know that making a tarot deck for yourself, won't work as well(if at all) as one chosen and given to you by someone, right?

This is a total myth, the old 'you must be given your first deck' nonsense. Trust me, there are millions of tarot collectors out there, and they buy and read these decks. They don't just wait to be given them. By whom? Adoring fans? I guess you're one of the folks who believes they must only be stored wrapped in pure black silk with a rowan twig and a smoky quartz crystal, too?

Second, actually MAKING your own deck is one of the most powerful things you can do, since you're literally investing your energy (for one) into the deck, and two, since you've really thought through every aspect of the card, it actually carries deeper levels of meaning and resonance for you.

HK, Certified Tarot Master. Sad but true.

News Credits: 49 · by **Senor Hugo** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:36 am

hellkitty wrote:
Senor Hugo wrote:You do know that making a tarot deck for yourself, won't work as well(if at all) as one chosen and given to you by someone, right?

This is a total myth, the old 'you must be given your first deck' nonsense. Trust me, there are millions of tarot collectors out there, and they buy and read these decks. They don't just wait to be given them. By whom? Adoring fans? I guess you're one of the folks who believes they must only be stored wrapped in pure black silk with a rowan twig and a smoky quartz crystal, too?

Second, actually MAKING your own deck is one of the most powerful things you can do, since you're literally investing your energy (for one) into the deck, and two, since you've really thought through every aspect of the card, it actually carries deeper levels of meaning and resonance for you.

HK, Certified Tarot Master. Sad but true.

Like I said before you got all uppity and started making assumptions. I don't do tarot, I stick with the runes.

Now, you can receive a tarot deck, from friends, loved ones etc.

Doesn't have to be 'adoring fans.' You know the phrase "it's the thought that counts" that thought with tarot can be just as powerful as making your own deck.

I completely understand that making your own, be it runes, tarot deck, staff, whatever has it's own power.

News Credits: 1 · by **cybercat** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:47 am

Just sorta for fun, closest existing Tarot is an Italian deck, out of print, called i tarocchi di robot.

You can look at it here.

Those wacky Italians. Scarabeo has done a long line of 'theme' decks, most of them pretty stupid--like pirates and lawn gnomes.

HK, your tarot researcher.

by **Primus C-00** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:26 pm

Hmm it's all very Marvel/Sunbow Animated, but here are my musings:

0 - the Fool - Grimlock
I - The Magus - Alpha Trion
II - High Priestess - Arcee
III - Empress - Coronation Starscream
IV - Emperor - Galvatron
V - Hierophant - Beast Wars Megatron with Golden Disk
VI - Lovers - Elita One and Optimus
VII - Chariot - Ark in MT. St. Helen
VIII - Strength - Optimus lifting oil tanker?
IX - The Hermit - Unicron
X - Wheel of Fortune - Vector Sigma
XI - Justice - Quintesson
XII - Hanged Man - Kupp dismembered by squidbot
XIII - Death - Megatron
XIV - Alchemy - Protoform
XV - The Devil - Devil Z with Lord and Lady Giga and Mega
XVI - War/The Tower - Autobot City
XVII - The Star - Starscream's Ghost
XVIII - The Moon(s) - Moonbases and Unicron's head
XIX - The Sun/Son - Rodimus opening Matrix
XX - Judgement/The Aeon - Quintesson repairing Optimus
XXI - The Universe - The Ark and Nemesis and the Axalon and Darksyde

:-B

by **Primus C-00** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:32 pm

Lorekeeper wrote:Here's my go, I'll try to stay g1:
hmm, lets see, minor arcana...

You know I'd never considered those. A second Kudos for your mention of Chaos Magic.

:APPLAUSE:

News Credits: 6 · by **Dr. Caelus** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:30 pm

I think mine are going to be largely similar to others, but this is fun:

Fool (someone innocent, naive, but hopeful) = Hot Rod all the way.

Lovers (choice, pleasure or duty) = Optimus & Elita, chose to be apart to uphold their duty.

Chariot (swift motion, new energies, outside influences) = Blurr, simply for the speed. Outside influences makes me think a human or a Quintesson would be appropriate though.

Strength (new talents, unexpected abilities surfacing) = Rodimus Prime

Hermit (solitude, isolation) = Alpha Trion

Justice (the law, poetic justice) = IDW Ultra Magnus or Sentinel Prime fits. A Quintesson judge would be ironic, but inappropriate.

Hanged Man (putting oneself through something unpleasant to learn from it) = Galvatron emerging from the plasma pool?

Death (change, the end of a project, or phase) = Unicron, I never saw him as "evil". Monstructor would also be a sensible choice.

Temperance (the difficult act of balance and moderation) = G2 Jhiaxus, primal rage versus discipline. I said Grimlock at first, in the comics he had a constant internal struggle between his aggressive impulses and his Autobot morals (the Dinobots as a whole actually fit this) but decided Grimlock would be better used else where.

Moon (intuition, emotional fluctuations) = Grimlock, follows his gut, and quite tempramental.

Devil (physical control, force, anger as controlling force, fear) = The Fallen, almost said Galvatron, but The Fallen is the same but more-so.

The Tower (destruction, major change) = Trypticon (was going to say Devastator, but Trypticon is a tower. Plus, a city that turns into a freakin dinosaur? Definitely a major change).

Judgment (The Last Judgment--final reckonings, coming back to life, resurrection) = The Last Autobot

The World (everything) = The Allspark (as seen in Beast Machines)

Still thinking (but need to go eat):

Magician (master of the elements, creator through unity) =

High Priestess (intuitive knowledge, balance) =

Empress (new ideas, pregnancy, female power) =

Emperor (decision-maker) =

Hierophant (moral judgments, shame) =

Star (the wish card, hope, 'feminine' side) =

Sun (happiness, clarity) =

by **Blackwind** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:11 pm

Here's mine

Fool- Wheelie
Magician- Alpha Trion
High Priestess- Arcee
Empress- Elita One
Emperor- Optimus Prime
Hierophant- Red Alert
Lovers- Skywarp/Thundercracker (based on the description...get
your/fic mind out of the gutter!)
Chariot- Blurr
Strength- Rodimus Prime/Hot Rod
Hermit- Cerebros
Justice- Ratbat
Hanged Man- Punch/CounterPunch
Death (change, the end of a project, or phase)
Temperance- Ultra Magnus
Devil- Megatron
The Tower- Unicron
Star- Crystal City
Moon- Starscream
Sun- Hound
Judgment- Vector Sigma
The World- Cybertron/Primus

by **Lorekeeper** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:31 pm

Hmmm... some revisions... influenced by other posters...

swords(strife, conflict)=seekers
Page/Prince/Princess: Thundercracker
Knight: Skywarp
Queen: Starscream
King: Jhaxus
Ace: Sunstorm

pents(worldly wealth and skill)= cassettes
Page/Prince/Princess: Rumble & Frenzy (a few of the decks I've seen use 2 figures on this card)
Knight: Ravage
Queen: Lazerbeak
King: Ratbat
Ace: A blank tape

cups(emotions, intuition)= fembots
Page/Prince/Princess: Moonracer
Knight: Firestar
Queen: Chromia
King: Elita One
Ace: Beta

wands(passions, callings)= special teams/ gestalts
Page/Prince/Princess: Computron
Knight: Superion
Queen: Piranacon
King:Predaking (mainly over Devastator because of the "king" right there in his name)
Ace: Devastator (the first one)

Hot Rod: Fool (someone innocent, naive, but hopeful)
Alpha Trion: Magician (master of the elements, creator through unity)
Blaster= High Priestess (intuitive knowledge, balance)
Soundwave!= Empress (new ideas, pregnancy, female power)
Megatron= Emperor (decision-maker)
Shockwave= Hierophant (moral judgments, shame)
Springer & Arcee= Lovers (choice, pleasure or duty)
Spacebridge= Chariot (swift motion, new energies, outside influences)
Rodimus Prime= Strength (new talents, unexpected abilities surfacing)
Cosmos= Hermit (solitude, isolation)
Ultra Magnus?= Justice (the law, poetic justice)
Optimus Prime, death of= Hanged Man (putting oneself through something unpleasant to learn from it)
The Matrix= Death (change, the end of a project, or phase)
Blitzwing= Temperance (the difficult act of balance and moderation)
Galvatron (w/ Cyclonus & Scourge)= Devil (physical control, force, anger as controlling force, fear)
Unicron= The Tower (destruction, major change)
Arcee = Star (the wish card, hope, 'feminine' side)
Grimlock= Moon (intuition, emotional fluctuations)
Bumblebee= Sun (happiness, clarity)
'Till All Are One= Judgment (The Last Judgment--final reckonings, coming back to life, resurrection)
Cybertron= The World (everything)

There, a complete (if still subject to revision) list... and then there's the resto of the minor arcana

by **Primus C-00** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:00 am

I am liking the ideas people are putting into their decks, I need to get my Book of Thoth book back so that I can begin musing upon my minor arcana.

Looking over them again my major arcana ideas are like I said very much based on the G1 animated continuity with a little Takara and Beast Wars in their to avoid purism and prevent ossification.

I'm sure I had the symmetry of the Ark/Axalon and Nemesis/Darksyde to illustrate the idea of a holographic universe or some-such.

A lot of it seems to be focused on the movie, which I feel is where the animated continuity matured quite rapidly. The conflict resulting in death, god like beings, etc. This being reflected in the maturation of Hot-Rod.

Has anyone read Illuminatus Trilogy? There is an interesting sequence where a Tarot reader explains the Tarot is a story, only everyone gets it wrong by reading from 0 - XXI, when in fact it should be read XXI - 0.

"The wheel of the Tarot is the wheel of Dharma," Mama Sutra said softly when he had concluded. "It is also the wheel of the galaxy, which you see as a blind machine. It rolls on, as you say, no matter what we think or do. Knowing that, I can accept Death as another part of the wheel, and I can accept your nonacceptance as another part. I can control neither. I can only repeat my warning, which is not a lie but a fact about the structure of the Wheel: By denying death, you guarantee that you will meet him finally in his most hideous form."

by **Lorekeeper** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:52 am

Primus C-00 wrote:
Has anyone read Illuminatus Trilogy? There is an interesting sequence where a Tarot reader explains the Tarot is a story, only everyone gets it wrong by reading from 0 - XXI, when in fact it should be read XXI - 0.

Nope, but I read the scifi/fantasy Tarot books by Piers Anthony... those were a head trip.