The Energon Pub

[chuckdawg1999]

Just so I can plan my next year and a half, is every other post in this thread going to be people kvetching about G1 and G1 designs.

[Nemesis Primal]

Just so I can plan my next year and a half, is every other post in this thread going to be people kvetching about G1 and G1 designs.

If that's 90% of what Earthrise is, which is what it looks like right now, then probably.

[Ironhidensh]

Just so I can plan my next year and a half, is every other post in this thread going to be people kvetching about G1 and G1 designs.

You must be new here.....

[Rodimus Prime]

THUNDERWING! At least voyager class, but preferably leader class (voyager with extra crap would even be acceptable at this point).

[Skritz]

Man, imagine if we got a non-GEEWUN line for Generations. People would still complain.

[ZeroWolf]

Man, imagine if we got a non-GEEWUN line for Generations. People would still complain.

But it would be different people complaining at least

[AllNewSuperRobot]

THUNDERWING! At least voyager class, but preferably leader class (voyager with extra crap would even be acceptable at this point).

Another nomination for Commander Class, I think...

Man, imagine if we got a non-GEEWUN line for Generations. People would still complain.

Better still, imagine if there were successful lines that actually eclipsed G1 and are more deserving of praise and accomplishment? Via TV IE The Beast Era and some from extensive alternate World building IE The Unicron Trilogy.

But, that of course, never happened. We are forever trapped in the same three miscellaneous years of a decade long dead, after all.

[Skritz]

Beast Wars was irredeemable any way you turn it, of course. Even had Megatron’s name not been besmirched by the presence of the Pretender, even had the series not spit upon everything that was ever excellent about Transformers, there were no worthwhile characters in the mix. I’m told there’s practically no Usenet discussion at all anymore about BW characters. They failed to capture the imagination and incite the passion that the multi-faceted, compelling, and awe-inspiring G1 characters were capable of. Beast Machines was an amusing side-trip into the back alleys of obscurity, serving only to invalidate Beast Wars further, and with that I have no complaint - but there were certainly no merits of characterization to be found. For all the clamor the Beast-series caused, no sooner were the shows off the air, than the flash in the pan sizzled out. It is a most fitting journey into extinction.

Raksha on Beast Wars, in the late '90. Interesting to see how this was both proven quite wrong yet also so right...because people with such a mentality are those running the brand right now.

[ZeroWolf]

I wonder if they still think the same way given the success of the BW mp or did they just move on to hating the movievers.

[Skritz]

I wonder if they still think the same way given the success of the BW mp or did they just move on to hating the movievers.

Considering the fact BW hasn't had a dedicated line whereas the Movie has its own 'Generations' line in the form of Studio Series I'm inclined to unfortunately more and more agree with the G1 purists that ultimately BW wasn't as big a deal as those who grew up on it thought. Its influence on the franchise was more one of style and concepts more than marketable characters and designs.

[chuckdawg1999]

I wonder if they still think the same way given the success of the BW mp or did they just move on to hating the movievers.

Considering the fact BW hasn't had a dedicated line whereas the Movie has its own 'Generations' line in the form of Studio Series I'm inclined to unfortunately more and more agree with the G1 purists that ultimately BW wasn't as big a deal as those who grew up on it thought. Its influence on the franchise was more one of style and concepts more than marketable characters and designs.

I've always felt that Beast Wars, especially the later seasons, influenced the movie designs greatly.

[Skritz]

Design-wise, Beast Wars was a bit of a transitional period which got reverted during the Unicron Trilogy. This is still relevant to the thread of Earthrise, what with its G1 cartoon look. BW robot modes tended toward the more organic even without going into Transmetal designs. The G1 toys (and by extension, the current crop of Generations) tend toward a more clearly geometric look, as expected of an '80 robot. This is a design style we see continue even in neo-G1 and was arguably the result of toy engineering at the time.

Beast Wars, taking cue from late G2, was heavy on balljoints which, as it happen, are something which has decreased in use in recent years with Siege. In general, you'll note that BW design are more likely to have bits and pieces of the exposed robot mode that is more distinct from the organic (or biomechanical, in the case of Transmetals). Even Transmetals, early on, kept this design element. The robot has a different styling, texture and color from the alternate mode whereas Generation 1 tend to, in general, keep this a bit more blurred barring exposing more grey/white/black/some tertiary more neutral color in robot mode.

Take the example of Cheetor, whose design is arguably just an animal version of the 'hood chest' car-former. His robot mode has blue and gold...colors which didn't remotely exist on a Cheetah and made engineering his toy harder for Masterpiece. Or Dinobot, who is also a metallic color and blue on an otherwise all brown and beige beast mode.

1980-style design are, from a toy designer standpoint, easier and more coherent. I'm not saying one is superior to the other but there is a certain elegant simplicity to the chunky 1980 Diaclone reuse robot and car modes.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

They failed to capture the imagination and incite the passion that the multi-faceted, compelling, and awe-inspiring G1 characters were capable of. and with that I have no complaint - but there were certainly no merits of characterization to be found.

Raksha on Beast Wars, in the late '90. Interesting to see how this was both proven quite wrong yet also so right...because people with such a mentality are those running the brand right now.

The highlight bits actually made me spit my drink across the room
That is the most ridiculous load of [rose tinted] shite I've ever read... And I've read Carwash of Doom

[Sentinel_Primal]

I think part of the issue is that G1's constantly getting reboots whereas BW gets the occassional bone thrown to them. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. People remember G1 more because they're constantly exposed to G1 (or G1 substitutes), but BW basically had the line, and then no further reimaginings for characters

[Cobotron]

They failed to capture the imagination and incite the passion that the multi-faceted, compelling, and awe-inspiring G1 characters were capable of. and with that I have no complaint - but there were certainly no merits of characterization to be found.

Raksha on Beast Wars, in the late '90. Interesting to see how this was both proven quite wrong yet also so right...because people with such a mentality are those running the brand right now.

The highlight bits actually made me spit my drink across the room
That is the most ridiculous load of [rose tinted] shite I've ever read... And I've read Carwash of Doom

Luckily I didn't have a mouth full of drink. I completely agree. G1 had compelling characters? I did however have a mouth full of spite that I spit across the room! Good thing this is a written forum.

[Skritz]

Raksha's entire 'essay' (read: rant) is the most unironically MUH GEEWUN thing ever. It is hilariously rose tinted beyond belief.

[Deadput]

People remember G1 because it was the first and the original and was what made the brand/franchise take off in the first place

It's where the majority of the fans are.

If Beast wars was in it's place it would be them that would be getting the G-Wun treatment.

I like original things and characters a lot and would like to see more liberties taken but I find the whole "why do they pander to G1 crowd" complaints to be well...dumb

It was the most successful and well known overall, Beast Wars was well known for it's time but it didn't leave the same type of mark and mass recognition that G1 did, that might not be the case for many in the fanbase overall but this is certainly the case for the general people.

To be honest outside of their time I don't think people realize that the G1 fans don't actually have as much of a bone thrown at them as others think, for example they still don't have that live action G1 film that's a literal dream for a lot of people.

[Skritz]

for example they still don't have that live action G1 film that's a literal dream for a lot of people.

Bumblebee is as close as you'll ever get and its still more than anyone who is a fan of other parts of the franchise will get. If you like Beast Wars, the Unicron Trilogy or Animated you are **** out of luck. These series are 100% done and over with. In Animated's case we didn't even get the fourth season!

[Deadput]

for example they still don't have that live action G1 film that's a literal dream for a lot of people.

Bumblebee is as close as you'll ever get and its still more than anyone who is a fan of other parts of the franchise will get. If you like Beast Wars, the Unicron Trilogy or Animated you are **** out of luck. These series are 100% done and over with. In Animated's case we didn't even get the fourth season!

Animated at least got an ending.

Bumblebee was a smaller and still very Bayformer like film since only 1 of 3 main Transformers were even in G1, was 3 minutes of Cybertron enough to scratch the itch that people want?

No it probably was not compared to the 10 years of "freshness" that the Bayformers had provided for those film's fans.

And yeah if you liked those other parts of the franchise you are out of luck, their not as popular or well remembered as the original which was G1.

Least we remember that generations Beast Wars figures were mostly shelf warmers, at least the recent ones like the thrilling 30 guys.


It's like with Star Wars, the most beloved was the original trilogy, not the prequels, not the sequels but the original, what do more people like the older expanded universe or the new canon more? It tends to almost always be the one that came first.

[Skritz]

I know and accept that G1 will always win out in the mind of the overall fandom. Right now its fine but after this trilogy, if we get another G1-accurate line with the '84 cast AGAIN...

Edit: Look guys, I'm a 'convert' to the G1 hypetrain and have gotten on board with the Generations when I got back into collecting with Titans Return. If I didn't have some massive appreciation ans growing love for the G1 designs and cast I wouldn't be collecting this stuff. Its just I worry a lot about stagnation once the initial 'whoa' factor of these mini-Masterpiece, mass retail G1 remake figures runs out.

[blackeyedprime]

for example they still don't have that live action G1 film that's a literal dream for a lot of people.

Bumblebee is as close as you'll ever get and its still more than anyone who is a fan of other parts of the franchise will get. If you like Beast Wars, the Unicron Trilogy or Animated you are **** out of luck. These series are 100% done and over with. In Animated's case we didn't even get the fourth season!

Seeing as Beast machines kind of gave existence to the all allspark, beast wars has never gone away with transformers focusing and basing stories around it (way too much) in nearly everything since plus it kind of is G3/G1 anyways. I like Beast wars and it's hard to even count how many years it has in continuity or presence...Beast wars, Neo, Beats Machines, RID, nods in Armada figures, Universe figures, Nods in nods in animated, Botcon exclusives, Crappy allspark in Baynus, Thrilling 30 figures, Combiner Wars exclusives, Nods in Prime, Potp figures, Takara Legends figures, Masterpiece figures.

As for the other lines, would new figures be better than the originals -looks at the recent versions of non G1 figures that for the most part aren't a patch on the original, nope. When they run out of lame gun modes for the new micro masters it's not hard to see them switching to being called minicons and coming with a card like the prime masters to tell you what powers it has when plugged in -better yet it will come with some armor and the can charge voyager prices for them...

Why go back to something if it would ruin it series or movie wise? Do I want to see Kickers or Saris grandchildren in an anime, nope. A live action Beast wars, HELL no (if they remaster/reanimate the series I'd be fine with that). Let them keep doing something new, eventually the toy lines will include throw backs to everything if there is money to be made in it. Thirty years from now we might even get hero masher masterpieces -the toy world and retro fashion is crazy like that, we might even see more standard non masterpiece figures that use batteries again (admittedly though probably not 9v ones by then).

[Skritz]

Honestly if we get a single thing on my 'wishlist' in this line I'll be happy enough and will shut up until the next line.

[Sabrblade]

I wouldn't want any live action film production touching Beast Wars with a ten foot pole!

[Deadput]

I wouldn't want any live action film production touching Beast Wars with a ten foot pole!

Same, Beast Wars was a good enough series.

Even if a movie wasn't "bad" I don't think it would be long enough to capture the magic the show had, said show in my opinion really sky rocketed in quality in season 2.

Also...I can't think of a way that organic robots transforming into robots that wouldn't be really uncanny, I'd rather stick to vehicle Transformers in the live action department. (Not including metal animal modes like Dinobots or Insecticons then again slightly organic Insecticons could work in the creepy department for them.)

[ZeroWolf]

We don't need more beast wars but more new things like beast wars. Something that takes the old concept and turns it on it's head.

Iron works here is a step in the right direction, taking something old (micromaster bases) and doing something new with it (robot mode)

We need more ideas like that