The Energon Pub

[Rodimus Prime]

Bah! who am I kidding. Kids don't buy Generations, only manchildren.

True story...One of my friends bought his 10 year old son PotP Inferno, because he is a firefighter, and of course our kids are friends and both like Transformers. My son had to explain to his son about the Combiner gimmick, (because of course they didn't read the instructions) . Of course I got an angry response from my friend because now his son said he wanted 4 deluxes to finish the combiner. They ended up getting a Dinobot, Jazz, and 2 Terrorcons... I didn't wan to crush his contentment by explaining team symmetry and all the combiner possibilities, so I told my son just not to say anything .

You should have, just so he would have to go out and buy the other Terrorcons, and 2 more limbs for Inferno. He doesn't need to get Grimlock, because Volcanicus is a turd.

And to make myself a hypocrite, this discussion belongs in the PoTP thread, let's get back to Siege, please.

I've never owned a Springer toy, the Siege voyager will be my first one. I'll get Red Alert simply for the sake of completion, and of course I'll get Reflector because I love that combining gimmick. I will call the combined camera Reflector, but what do I call the individual bots? They can't all be Refraktor, can they?

[ZeroWolf]

Bah! who am I kidding. Kids don't buy Generations, only manchildren.

True story...One of my friends bought his 10 year old son PotP Inferno, because he is a firefighter, and of course our kids are friends and both like Transformers. My son had to explain to his son about the Combiner gimmick, (because of course they didn't read the instructions) . Of course I got an angry response from my friend because now his son said he wanted 4 deluxes to finish the combiner. They ended up getting a Dinobot, Jazz, and 2 Terrorcons... I didn't wan to crush his contentment by explaining team symmetry and all the combiner possibilities, so I told my son just not to say anything .

You should have, just so he would have to go out and buy the other Terrorcons, and 2 more limbs for Inferno. He doesn't need to get Grimlock, because Volcanicus is a turd.

And to make myself a hypocrite, this discussion belongs in the PoTP thread, let's get back to Siege, please.

I've never owned a Springer toy, the Siege voyager will be my first one. I'll get Red Alert simply for the sake of completion, and of course I'll get Reflector because I love that combining gimmick. I will call the combined camera Reflector, but what do I call the individual bots? They can't all be Refraktor, can they?

I would just use the names of the individual bots from the G1 toyline (can't remember them all at the moment but I'm sure aside from Reflector, one was Spyglass)

[Rodimus Prime]

I've never owned a Springer toy, the Siege voyager will be my first one. I'll get Red Alert simply for the sake of completion, and of course I'll get Reflector because I love that combining gimmick. I will call the combined camera Reflector, but what do I call the individual bots? They can't all be Refraktor, can they?

I would just use the names of the individual bots from the G1 toyline (can't remember them all at the moment but I'm sure aside from Reflector, one was Spyglass)

Spectro, Spyglass and Viewfinder? That's a good idea, except all 3 are identical, so I guess it doesn't matter which is which.

[o.supreme]

Refraktor is definitely welcome among most fans I'd imagine. Coincidentally though, I'll stick with the Botcon 2016 legends Trio. They fit into my existing Combiner Theme, plus they do have a fan made camera mode so I get a double win there . Still, for every fan who wants 3 Siege Refraktors, I don't think there will be a supply issue.

[Wolfman Jake]

I've never owned a Springer toy, the Siege voyager will be my first one. I'll get Red Alert simply for the sake of completion, and of course I'll get Reflector because I love that combining gimmick. I will call the combined camera Reflector, but what do I call the individual bots? They can't all be Refraktor, can they?

I would just use the names of the individual bots from the G1 toyline (can't remember them all at the moment but I'm sure aside from Reflector, one was Spyglass)

Spectro, Spyglass and Viewfinder? That's a good idea, except all 3 are identical, so I guess it doesn't matter which is which.

In the original cartoon, they were all simply "Reflector." They were never really addressed individually. It's unknown if they all have separate consciousness or one shared mind. They also frequently were depicted as MORE than just three nearly identical robots, especially to fill out the background in battle scenes.

The original toyline called the three robot components of Reflector "Spectro," "Spyglass," and "Viewfinder." Viewfinder is the one that looks most like the G1 cartoon model. Spectro is the red toy robot, and Spyglass is the blue toy robot.

[Sabrblade]

I've never owned a Springer toy, the Siege voyager will be my first one. I'll get Red Alert simply for the sake of completion, and of course I'll get Reflector because I love that combining gimmick. I will call the combined camera Reflector, but what do I call the individual bots? They can't all be Refraktor, can they?

I would just use the names of the individual bots from the G1 toyline (can't remember them all at the moment but I'm sure aside from Reflector, one was Spyglass)

Spectro, Spyglass and Viewfinder? That's a good idea, except all 3 are identical, so I guess it doesn't matter which is which.

In the original cartoon, they were all simply "Reflector." They were never really addressed individually. It's unknown if they all have separate consciousness or one shared mind. They also frequently were depicted as MORE than just three nearly identical robots, especially to fill out the background in battle scenes.

Moreover, the cartoon was very inconsistent on its portrayal of the three. Most of the time the three would speak in unison as one, while other times an individual one (who lacked the central guy's tummy circle) would be seen by itself. One anomalous occasion had a fourth member not only speak with his own unique non-Chris Latta voice and beg for his life against the others, but that fourth one was also sent to Cybertron through the space bridge, becoming separate from the main three by a span of lightyears and still functioning just like them. Another weird instance once had the main three shown to be pressed up against each other, in which case the two who lacked the tummy circle disappeared into the central guy's body, as though he was the only "real" one while the other two were projected duplicates a la the Insecticons' clones. This weird instance never happened again afterward.

One attempt to explain how there were so many Reflectors in the cartoon came in Fun Pub's Wings Universe fiction, in which Reflector was said to have been the leader of a subgroup of identical-looking Decepticons called the Photons.

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I gotta say.....Springer is my favorite character, I hate the colors on this one.
That main body green is...like 90s neon.

Springer was just ahead of his time, maybe?

Seriously, though, SIEGE Springer's greens and yellow are closer to the original G1 toy in terms of brightness or "saturation" than the G1 cartoon and movie character models, which were duller, more desaturated tones. Brighter colors work better on toys. This has been Hasbro's method of operation for decades. Toys are more attractive to casual buyers on the shelf, especially kids, when they're bright and colorful. The recent in-hand photos we got may be a bit over-saturated, hence the blue coming out in the "gray" legs much more strongly than in previous stock photos. The colors on Siege Springer, minus the gray, look to be pretty on point to those of Thrilling 30 Springer from 5 years ago.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the photos are oversaturated. It happens sometimes, even with the alleged professionals who take Hasbro's stock photos.

[william-james88]

Refraktor is definitely welcome among most fans I'd imagine. Coincidentally though, I'll stick with the Botcon 2016 legends Trio. They fit into my existing Combiner Theme, plus they do have a fan made camera mode so I get a double win there . Still, for every fan who wants 3 Siege Refraktors, I don't think there will be a supply issue.

It was a fan mode? I remember reporting it being official and even made specifically for Devastator to hold.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I am continually baffled as to why people would want Sunstreaker and Sideswipe retooled from one another. Their transformation schemes are entirely opposite! It makes no sense! the same way a Tracks/Sideswipe retool makes no sense. If anything, Sunstreaker and Tracks should share molds, not Sideswipe.

I am curious to see what the final molding differences are between Ratchet and Ironhide. He looks good in the artwork so far.

Springer, wow, that is GREEN. They needed to go 20 shades darker

[Wolfman Jake]

Moreover, the cartoon was very inconsistent on its portrayal of the three. Most of the time the three would speak in unison as one, while other times an individual one (who lacked the central guy's tummy circle) would be seen by itself. One anomalous occasion had a fourth member not only speak with his own unique non-Chris Latta voice and beg for his life against the others, but that fourth one was also sent to Cybertron through the space bridge, becoming separate from the main three by a span of lightyears and still functioning just like them. Another weird instance once had the main three shown to be pressed up against each other, in which case the two who lacked the tummy circle disappeared into the central guy's body, as though he was the only "real" one while the other two were projected duplicates a la the Insecticons' clones. This weird instance never happened again afterward.

One attempt to explain how there were so many Reflectors in the cartoon came in Fun Pub's Wings Universe fiction, in which Reflector was said to have been the leader of a subgroup of identical-looking Decepticons called the Photons.

I'd love to see what the original Sunbow production bible said for Reflector. It's probably pretty specific about how many there are, if they're all separate entities or one mind controlling the collective, etc. Likely, all of the inconsistencies in the original cartoon are due to having multiple writers cranking out scripts as fast as possible, not bothering to read the production bible to make sure the characters are internally consistent. It's why we got anomalies like the occasional flying Autobot or three mutually exclusive origin stories for the Constructicons.

[Wolfman Jake]

I am continually baffled as to why people would want Sunstreaker and Sideswipe retooled from one another. Their transformation schemes are entirely opposite! It makes no sense! the same way a Tracks/Sideswipe retool makes no sense. If anything, Sunstreaker and Tracks should share molds, not Sideswipe.

Same here. I think it comes from people used to the Universe 2.0/Henkei figures sharing a mold with just an alternate transformation scheme and head. That, and they are supposed to be "brothers," so why not look similar too? Someone said earlier that some clever retooling could give us a Sunstreaker, Wheeljack, and Tracks all from the same core design. We've already seen something close with Generations/Reveal the Shield/United Wheeljack and (Turbo) Tracks as well as Combiner Wars/Unite Warriors Sunstreaker and Wheeljack.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Refraktor is definitely welcome among most fans I'd imagine. Coincidentally though, I'll stick with the Botcon 2016 legends Trio. They fit into my existing Combiner Theme, plus they do have a fan made camera mode so I get a double win there . Still, for every fan who wants 3 Siege Refraktors, I don't think there will be a supply issue.

It was a fan mode? I remember reporting it being official and even made specifically for Devastator to hold.

You talking about Siege, or BotCon 2016?

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Refraktor is definitely welcome among most fans I'd imagine. Coincidentally though, I'll stick with the Botcon 2016 legends Trio. They fit into my existing Combiner Theme, plus they do have a fan made camera mode so I get a double win there . Still, for every fan who wants 3 Siege Refraktors, I don't think there will be a supply issue.

It was a fan mode? I remember reporting it being official and even made specifically for Devastator to hold.

You talking about Siege, or BotCon 2016?

Aren't both Botcon and Siege official in the 3 in 1 camera mode?

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Refraktor is definitely welcome among most fans I'd imagine. Coincidentally though, I'll stick with the Botcon 2016 legends Trio. They fit into my existing Combiner Theme, plus they do have a fan made camera mode so I get a double win there . Still, for every fan who wants 3 Siege Refraktors, I don't think there will be a supply issue.

It was a fan mode? I remember reporting it being official and even made specifically for Devastator to hold.

You talking about Siege, or BotCon 2016?

Aren't both Botcon and Siege official in the 3 in 1 camera mode?

Siege is official, at the very least intentional like Soundwave's Lamppost mode. BotCon 2016... the ability is alluded to in the Tech Specs (plus their individual alt modes are described as cameras already), but no instructions were ever given, just encouragement from Hasbro to figure something out AFAIK.

[Nemesis Primal]

I want to know if I'm the only one crazy that will buy 3 Refraktor instead of one for being more classic cartoon accurate

I'd say most collectors are going for the Reflector trifecta. The better question would be, who is happy with just ONE Reflector for their collection?

Me, because I wasn't alive during G1 so I have no attachment to his original alt mode and I think a camera is a pretty rubbish altmode that serves no real purpose. I'm actually happy they gave Reflector a Megatron/Soundwave/Shockwave-style alt mode change, while keeping the option of the original for the G1 fans.

[Sabrblade]

I'd love to see what the original Sunbow production bible said for Reflector. It's probably pretty specific about how many there are, if they're all separate entities or one mind controlling the collective, etc. Likely, all of the inconsistencies in the original cartoon are due to having multiple writers cranking out scripts as fast as possible, not bothering to read the production bible to make sure the characters are internally consistent. It's why we got anomalies like the occasional flying Autobot or three mutually exclusive origin stories for the Constructicons.

Reflector's entry from the production bible:

NOTE: TOY DISCONTINUED: DO NOT USE CHARACTER

NAME: REFLECTOR

FUNCTION: Reconaissance

TRANS-FORM: camera

ABILITIES: Highly developed infra-red vision...enables him to record images in total darkness and through camouflage, as well as from great distances. Powerful flash explosion leaves enemy temporarily blinded and disoriented for maximum of fifteen seconds. (In his robot mode, Reflector is 3 robots that speak together and combine as they transform into one camera.)

PROFILE: Tendancy to be distracted by visual complexities...intrigued with new challenges of Earth's topography. Impressed with his own ability...spies on comrades with probable intention of blackmail.

Though, TFWiki has this note:

At the script stage, Reflector was intended to be a singular robot who possessed the ability to split into three duplicates, identical save for the lens aperture in the chest of the robot who forms the center of their camera mode, who all act with the same mind and talk in unison, with the same voice. This ability was never shown on-screen, having apparently been consciously erased from the series: it was displayed in deleted scenes from "Divide and Conquer", "S.O.S. Dinobots", and "War of the Dinobots". However, "Divide and Conquer" did show the three robots re-combining, as the three components collide with one another and disappear until only one is left. Reflector was usually just seen in his triplicate state most of the time, but on rare occasions, he would appear as a single robot. His character model was also sometimes used for generic Decepticon troops.

[Skritz]

With modern lore in mind, I wonder if a G1 toon-based Reflector with three bodies would be a case of someone having a 'Mitotic Spark' like the Duocons and Overlord but with three unique robot bodies and a combined altmode.

I imagine he/they would be quite the freaks by Cybertronian standards.

[Sentinel_Primal]

I want to know if I'm the only one crazy that will buy 3 Refraktor instead of one for being more classic cartoon accurate

I'd say most collectors are going for the Reflector trifecta. The better question would be, who is happy with just ONE Reflector for their collection?

Me, because I wasn't alive during G1 so I have no attachment to his original alt mode and I think a camera is a pretty rubbish altmode that serves no real purpose. I'm actually happy they gave Reflector a Megatron/Soundwave/Shockwave-style alt mode change, while keeping the option of the original for the G1 fans.

That's fair. I've been flip flopping between getting 1 and 3 because I love the camera mode, but I don't like them all being identical with the only difference being whether or not the stomach shutter is there. Plus, if it wasn't for the individual alt modes, I'd probably be in the same boat as you with the camera mode, despite me loving its look

[william-james88]

I thought reflector was mainly just 1 character that just replicated himself as he wished

[Sabrblade]

I thought reflector was mainly just 1 character that just replicated himself as he wished

That image is from the pilot three-parter that had tons of generics bolstering the ranks of the Decepticons. That image alone has multiple Rumble/Frenzy redecos and one light purple Seeker in addition to the main three.

And even in the series proper, there was never any consistency regarding Reflector's onscreen depiction.

[Wolfman Jake]

Reflector's entry from the production bible:

NOTE: TOY DISCONTINUED: DO NOT USE CHARACTER

Sunbow: "Whoopsies!"

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Reflector's entry from the production bible:

NOTE: TOY DISCONTINUED: DO NOT USE CHARACTER

Sunbow: "Whoopsies!"

Well, that "Whoopsies" has brought us an 80's camera toy in the age of smartphones.

[frogbat]

Can’t wait for springer, he’s much more accurate to his g1 self than the thrilling 30s figure. The latter was good in its own right but he was fiddly and gets a few of his panels stuck. If I go transform him now, he’s not much fun. Regarding the colours, the toys were always a bit more garish but I’m thinking these particular photos are a bit over saturated as well and the figures will be ever so slightly more muted.

Refractor is cool but in cost cutting I ordered just the one... though I’m very tempted to see if I can get another 2. Might’ve preferred him to be legends class...

Brunt is looking good, but yea we need a slammer, preferably one that combines with metroplex’s city mode... maybe instead of a tower he could be some sort of step with a ramp to attach to metrplex’s poorly designed black ramp

[Emerje]

Pretty sure one of the cyberverse figures with the vehicle armor has slammer covered so I'd rather see brunt repainted silver (battlestar galacticish) and maybe even have a red handprint on him

Ooh? Which one?

I would like to know this as well!

I'm guessing the tank that comes with Jetfire, but it isn't white enough for me. I'll hold out for a Brunt repaint.



Emerje

[ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I still say nuts to doing Slammer as a Brunt repaint. We already have a Metroplex Weaponizer and Brunt's tank mode doesn't match Slammer at all. Which is kind of a big dealbreaker considering that Slammer's tank mode is really all he has. He's a tank whose body and turret separate to become a couple of tower tops (that Brunt's parts don't particularly resemble either) for Metroplex... and that's all he is. He has no robot mode, no face, no signature markings... Just that tank mode. And so resembling it is the only way to resemble him