Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:51 pm

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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Plus Hasbro has used "Battlemaster" before for Beast Hunters, so whatever works?
Wait, what?
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Skritz » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:01 pm

Since the Titan/Prime/Battlemaster pricepoint has been a bit of a favorite of mine I've been looking at that Firebolt drive figure since it's our first glance into that pricepoint. Considering it is the Targetmaster associated with Hot Rod/Rodimus, there are two theories which come to mind:
1) New Hot Rod figure...but I doubt it because he's just had two in a row.
2) The Battlemasters lineup may or may not be separate from their 'associated' character, meaning we'll see Firebolt without his designated canonical partner.

If option two is the correct one (and I suspect it is at least partially, in so much that we won't see a Siege Hot Rod due to him having a TR and PotP figure) then this has gotten me speculating about the other Battlemasters and their shared engineering/retool. Looking at the original Targetmaster lineup, I've seen the following designs crop up:
⦁ Double-barreled bottom, feet on top facing forward (Firebolt)
⦁ Single-barreled bottom, feet on top facing backward (Haywire, Peacemaker, Fracas)
⦁ Double-barreled top, feet on top facing forward (Pinpointer, Recoil)
⦁ Double-barreled top, feet on top facing backward (Spoilsport, Aimless)
⦁ Single-barreled top, feet top facing backward (Nightstick)
⦁ The separate barrel type (Caliburst, Blowpipe)
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:08 pm

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Weapon: Dual Bladed Sword
Sabrblade wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Plus Hasbro has used "Battlemaster" before for Beast Hunters, so whatever works?
Wait, what?


Battlemaster Class, with Beast Tracker Optimus and Talking Bumblebee. Not advertised on the boxes, nor do they have their own numbering, seemingly making them standalone releases. But they are grouped via their product codes with A5117 for the assortment.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Skritz » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:11 pm

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Plus Hasbro has used "Battlemaster" before for Beast Hunters, so whatever works?
Wait, what?


Battlemaster Class, with Beast Tracker Optimus and Talking Bumblebee. Not advertised on the boxes, nor do they have their own numbering, seemingly making them standalone releases. But they are grouped via their product codes with A5117 for the assortment.


Well that's obscure.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Emerje » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:26 pm

Motto: "*Shrug*"
Weapon: Saw-Edged Pincer
If they had kept the name Targetmaster then Walmart wouldn't sell them. ;)

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:29 pm

Motto: "Love it? GET IT!
It's that simple."
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Skritz wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Plus Hasbro has used "Battlemaster" before for Beast Hunters, so whatever works?
Wait, what?


Battlemaster Class, with Beast Tracker Optimus and Talking Bumblebee. Not advertised on the boxes, nor do they have their own numbering, seemingly making them standalone releases. But they are grouped via their product codes with A5117 for the assortment.


Well that's obscure.


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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Skritz » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:48 pm

Is it weird the battlemasters are what I like the most from Siege so far? I mean, hey, more weapons is always good. A weapon which is also a transforming robot? That's even better!
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:58 pm

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
Weapon: Dual Bladed Sword
Skritz wrote:Is it weird the battlemasters are what I like the most from Siege so far? I mean, hey, more weapons is always good. A weapon which is also a transforming robot? That's even better!


Not weird at all, I like the Prime Masters the most from the previous line :oops:
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Skritz » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:18 pm

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Skritz wrote:Is it weird the battlemasters are what I like the most from Siege so far? I mean, hey, more weapons is always good. A weapon which is also a transforming robot? That's even better!


Not weird at all, I like the Prime Masters the most from the previous line :oops:


They were fine but I wish we had gotten more pretender characters/the full Thirteen Prime lineup. The fact Waverider, a core Autobot Pretender, got scrapped is particularly bad.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:31 pm

Skritz wrote:core Pretender.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

:-D
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Skritz » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:41 pm

william-james88 wrote:
Skritz wrote:core Pretender.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

:-D


I meant those which did get featured (under an alternate name, mind you) in animation: Metalhawk, Cloudburst/Phoenix, Landmine/Lander, Waverider/Waver, Skullgrin/Dauros, Bomb-Burst/Blood and Submarauder/Gillmer.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Qwan » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:57 pm

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Weapon: Hand-Mounted Lasers
william-james88 wrote:
Skritz wrote:core Pretender.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

:-D
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Have I talked about my feelings on these reveals yet? I think I pretty much fall in line with everyone else, more or less.

I'm not the biggest fan of Optimus but will absolutely be picking him up anyway since I still need a Voyager Generations Optimus, and he does the job better than any other to date.

Sideswipe just doesn't interest me in general - I mean, he looks alright but there doesn't appear to be anything particularly interesting about the toy, either.

Firedrive looks... okay. I only got one Takara Targetmaster (from their version of TR Kup), but I would've really loved to see those make an appearance here, instead of the less articulated and marginally less convincing interpretations we seem to be in for. I mean, for the price point it's fine! And collectible weapons are always cool, I'm sure I'll get them all. But it just feels odd, seeing two figures that try to do pretty much the exact same thing in such a short time span, and having the newer one be a marked downgrade from the older. It's like - and you'll have to forgive me for the dated analogy, it's the best I can think of right now - if DOTM Deluxe Bumblebee was released, and then followed up the next year with the 2007 mold. It just feels weird to me... but I'm sure I'll get over it and learn to love the Battle Masters, in time! :D

Oh yes, and at the risk of plugging my own Twitter I feel like this is a good summary of my personal feelings on the direction of this line as a whole:
Qwan wrote:Is there a more perfect example of the duality of man than going “Ugh more G1, when will Hasbro learn that people won’t just buy more of the same stuff over and over. Also that Optimus and Sideswipe look pretty good, I can’t wait to pick them up”
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:03 pm

Skritz wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Skritz wrote:core Pretender.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

:-D


I meant those which did get featured (under an alternate name, mind you) in animation: Metalhawk, Cloudburst/Phoenix, Landmine/Lander, Waverider/Waver, Skullgrin/Dauros, Bomb-Burst/Blood and Submarauder/Gillmer.

Oh I know, I was just goofing around.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby william-james88 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:45 pm

I know its probably not the same fans saying it, but when you look at the fandom in general, it looks really hypocritic. I see a lot of responses (here and elsewhere) expressing boredom at the same characters being released, and in a similar look. More G1, how dull. And I get it.

What I dont get is that there was a line which was all about not being G1. And there were no gimmicks either. Plus there was a beast theme too, with solid and new transformations, robot modes and alt modes.

That line was the latest Robots in Disguise line and I thought it was great. Not only was there great deluxe figures but it had a solid legion class offering (plus a pretty cool Battlepack class). But it was avoided by many fans. And its too bad since while I know fans were worried about simplicity, many of those deluxes were more complex than any of the combiner limbs in the Generations line.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:46 pm

Motto: "Love it? GET IT!
It's that simple."
Weapon: Mace
Too often, this is what's happening.

"THIS LINE IS GARBAGE! I'M SO DISAPOINTED!"

See the toys on the store shelf as I pass by...


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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:00 pm

Motto: "It's not done right if it's not done well."
Weapon: Saber Blade
william-james88 wrote:I know its probably not the same fans saying it, but when you look at the fandom in general, it looks really hypocritic. I see a lot of responses (here and elsewhere) expressing boredom at the same characters being released, and in a similar look. More G1, how dull. And I get it.

What I dont get is that there was a line which was all about not being G1. And there were no gimmicks either. Plus there was a beast theme too, with solid and new transformations, robot modes and alt modes.

That line was the latest Robots in Disguise line and I thought it was great. Not only was there great deluxe figures but it had a solid legion class offering (plus a pretty cool Battlepack class). But it was avoided by many fans. And its too bad since while I know fans were worried about simplicity, many of those deluxes were more complex than any of the combiner limbs in the Generations line.
I hear ya. It's a good possibility that those who decried the RID line were the pro-G1 party that likes how G1-based the Generations toys are nowadays, while those who decry the slavish adherence to G1 in the Generations lines are the party who want new characters/designs like those we got in the RID line.

At the same time, there's likewise a good possibility that there is some overlap of these two parties, who have decried both for reasons that are different but still related to the reasons that both have been decried. This overlap party would be in favor of newer things, but not the specific kind that we got in RID. A rather loud portion of this party in particular decried RID not for its newness, but for the fact that it wasn't what they wanted, that being "Transformers: Prime Season 4" instead of the goofier and alleged "kiddier" designs that RID did give us.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Emerje » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:11 pm

Motto: "*Shrug*"
Weapon: Saw-Edged Pincer
It's unfortunate that while RID figures had some great molds with intuitive transformations, Hasbro couldn't be bothered to paint them well enough to do them justice. Takara Tomy got my money for these figures and they deserved it (at nearly the same price). I preach a lot about quality reflecting price points, but if stickers are cheaper than paint then I almost wish they put some stickers on these figures (blasphemy, I know).

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby starrhero » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:25 pm

Most fandoms are pretty hypocritical like this. 'Eh, I hate all these pandering things. We need new things, not rehashes!'

My main theory as to why some are like this is because... well, we don't know what we really want anymore. I totally enjoy getting new versions of G1 Transformers but at the same time, I want new things based on the Unicron Trilogy & Beast Wars, maybe even a little bit of 2001 RiD. We are scared of change, as most are, so something like the Transformers doing a drastic change like doing Beas Wars characters or the Unicron Trilogy characters & gimmicks for a while, we'd be worried that we wouldn't get G1 characters for quite a while. This is especially true if we got Unicron Trilogy characters, as we'd long for new versions of the same characters in the Unicron Trilogy, but for G1. A good example would be Optimus, in where we'd see this new engineering & creativity & would like it, but then we'd long for a new G1 Optimus made in a similar way. Heck, people were hoping PotP Optimus would get remolded into another Ginrai/Powermaster Prime.

With the IDW comics' current stories ending, which were mostly G1 based, let's hope the reboot of the IDW brings us much more than G1, as most toys during this time were influenced by IDW & vice versa. & overall, let's hope for more Transformers from other continuities to get some representation in the future. Hopefully
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Autobot Roadburn » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:44 pm

I guess for me one of my main annoyances is getting a new version of a character and then getting it again, especially if the second toy is a better one. For example Windblade - who I also want to make clear that I don't hate her character - got 3 new toys fairly close to each other with her first Generations, then RiD and Titans Return. Situations like that are a bit frustrating to me because I usually look for "ideal" versions of characters in my collection, and when they get updated over and over again I keep feeling like I wasted my money, because "well crap, here's a better one." I just bought Takara Legends Bumblebee today and I'm hoping desperately that Hasbro won't reveal a better looking Bumblebee on Wednesday. On a similar note I bought Titans Return Hot Rod and the one that comes in the Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime evolution set looks far better to me. For repeat characters in Generations I think I'd prefer getting toys that represented different versions of them from different shows or comics so they'd feel more like there was a reason to buy them. I personally want more MTMTE characters, I'd buy remakes of every character they made from the Lost Light. If they just keep making new versions of the same characters in a similar style, even through different size classes, it just ends up feeling repetitive.

Some of that may come off as hypocritical or contradictory but I just wanted to type up what my general feelings are at the moment. Added to that are: I'm tired of Combiner limbs, I think they can end up too simple and characters that weren't made to be limbs originally can suffer for it, like Jazz. That said I love Blot. I'm also buying Optimus because we haven't had a "generic" voyager one in years and the Classics one could use an update. That I don't mind. I don't know, there's a lot to consider about this line.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Skritz » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:26 pm

william-james88 wrote:I know its probably not the same fans saying it, but when you look at the fandom in general, it looks really hypocritic. I see a lot of responses (here and elsewhere) expressing boredom at the same characters being released, and in a similar look. More G1, how dull. And I get it.

What I dont get is that there was a line which was all about not being G1. And there were no gimmicks either. Plus there was a beast theme too, with solid and new transformations, robot modes and alt modes.

That line was the latest Robots in Disguise line and I thought it was great. Not only was there great deluxe figures but it had a solid legion class offering (plus a pretty cool Battlepack class). But it was avoided by many fans. And its too bad since while I know fans were worried about simplicity, many of those deluxes were more complex than any of the combiner limbs in the Generations line.


For RID I avoided it because it wasn't to my taste and the toys looked much weaker than the current Generations line. Most are unpainted, solid surfaces lacking both paint apps and molding. >:oP
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:10 pm

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
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I honestly would love if it was done half and half, like half the line being mostly faithful (Or in cases of repeat characters like Optimus Prime maybe make them slightly different from before) while the other half is experimenting with new characters and designs.


Like say this theoretical Generations line would be half G1 to please the folks with characters like Tracks and Grapple and half new characters/vehicles to keep things fresh and interesting like say Thunderhoof and Terradive (Not new at this point but they were new characters) this would finally make the name "Generations" make sense.


I'm a tad bored of G1 overall since so far there hasn't really been anything new done with it recently but I don't hate G1 and don't mind seeing it around, I just would like some new stuff alongside it as well.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 am

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
OK, well I decided to sit on this all weekend, and really think about the reveal. I'm just talking about the three toys (Firedrive, Sideswipe and Optimus), not all the supposed lists of upcoming toys supposedly coming out but...

For the most part, I think they look ok. I think more information about the line as a whole would be helpful, the story behind it etc... Now while I do think the toys will look great in person, so far, based on the three reveals, I wont be purchasing any of these. They just don't go with my collection, but make no mistake, I think they do look decent. I'm only a little disappointed that Sideswipe was not a combiner limb. Don't get me wrong. I fully understand that WFC/Siege is something completely new. However, in the past few lines, there's always been a little engineering from the previous line mixed in with the new. The Combiner Engineering system used in CW & PotP is a great one, and I hope it's not abandoned altogether. Even if its only a couple of toys, that would be better than nothing. Sideswipe now has the distinction of being the only one of the original 11 deluxe Autobots that is not a Combiner Limb, and that makes me kind of sad is all I'm saying.

Additonally, it looks like I was right about Amazon's Punch/Counterpunch being more of a WFC preview than an actual PotP toy.

With the theme being *Siege*, I don't think it will be too conducive to Box Sets. I know it appears Hasbro loses money on them, and it is easier/more profitable to sell figures individually. Naturally CW lent itself to the idea of Box Sets, and the ones we got for TR were a bit spotty in themes, so much so that it appears the last two never happened and parts were piecemealed out as various exclusives (and no Voyager or Leader was made). Yes I know Hasbro only ever acknowledged TWO were being made at Toy Fare 2017, but you can see the pattern that four were probably in the plan at some point.

I'd still love to see a Piranacon, Monstructor, or any of the Japanese Combiners we never got pop up at some point, but Siege may not be the right time. I guess I'll just be patient and wait. If this line does release any figures that spark my purchasing interest though, everyone here will definitely know 8-)
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby ScottyP » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:34 am

Weapon: Battle Blades
Myself and others that both love G1 and are burnt out on G1 nostalgia toys probably just need a break from it. Let Generations go weird again for a year or two, or disappear entirely. Focus on the present with only a MP here and there moving the coals powering a fire from the 1980s.

Examples: when G1 Commemorative toys hit TRU in the early 00s, the focus was ultimately still on RiD and Armada. When Classics hit, it was a bridge between Cybertron the 07 Movie, which ultimately were the main focus. When early Generations figures hit, it was secondary to DotM/Prime/etc. While at those times there were some that clamored for more Generations, less New Thing, I think after four years of in-your-face nostalgia blasting I'm ready for a New Thing. The New Old Things now just feel old and tired.

Edit: alternately, get back to G1 homage figures that hit Masterforce, Victory, and so on. That would feel new enough for now!
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Skritz » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:56 am

ScottyP wrote:Myself and others that both love G1 and are burnt out on G1 nostalgia toys probably just need a break from it. Let Generations go weird again for a year or two, or disappear entirely. Focus on the present with only a MP here and there moving the coals powering a fire from the 1980s.

Examples: when G1 Commemorative toys hit TRU in the early 00s, the focus was ultimately still on RiD and Armada. When Classics hit, it was a bridge between Cybertron the 07 Movie, which ultimately were the main focus. When early Generations figures hit, it was secondary to DotM/Prime/etc. While at those times there were some that clamored for more Generations, less New Thing, I think after four years of in-your-face nostalgia blasting I'm ready for a New Thing. The New Old Things now just feel old and tired.

Edit: alternately, get back to G1 homage figures that hit Masterforce, Victory, and so on. That would feel new enough for now!


It's not going to happen because the brand is struggling and Hasbro is aiming for a 'back to basics'. They're going to focus on those characters which are marketable. not to mention nowadays big business either go full retro-pandering or they do the opposite and decide to trash everything that came before in the name of some misplaced ideas by burning the past and any bridges with the actual fans (see: Star Wars). Right now, as much as it annoys me, this seem like the lesser of two evils because a new line of entirely unique character would carry too much a risk being nothing but characters worse than Windblade.

The best we can hope for now is, as you mentioned, some late/Japanese G1 figures being mixed in with the '84/'85 stuff. We've only seen three figures in the line, with two price points (Legend and Leader) still being a complete mystery. There is still hope for some interesting things but I'll admit this hope is tenuous right now...but not entirely pointless, as the 'token Optimus' of the line is a Voyager. Meaning the Megatron is also, most likely, a Voyager figure leaving the Leader size class entirely open to other characters.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:08 am

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
ScottyP wrote:I'm ready for a New Thing. The New Old Things now just feel old and tired.

Edit: alternately, get back to G1 homage figures that hit Masterforce, Victory, and so on. That would feel new enough for now!


While generations popularity has ultimately grown, it is still *niche* and relatively small compared to whatever main line is.

There is Cyberverse and Studio Series will be all the New/mainline stuff, with WFC/"Siege" being the minor party in all of this. But I do agree, more Masterforce/Victory characters would be great.
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