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Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:38 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Or maybe, crazy as it sounds, Hasbro could revive one of the Forgotten Combiner Teams and not just keep redoing the same half a dozen? Like Raiden, Monstructor, Piranacon and/or Dinoking perhaps? Alternatively they could just keep making mish-mashes like Galvatronus...


With releases like LioKaiser, this shows that hopefully anything is still possible, down the road at some point. If year 2 of WFC were to give us a Titan Sized Raiden instead of Scorponok, as much as I really want my *city bots* (as you say) *complete*, I'd still be totally happy. Predaking was an unexpected surprise, so I'm ok with these, as long as they eventually get to what we're anticipating.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:41 pm

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I really don't understand the mystery of Raiden's omission? It was there at the beginning with Devastator as the first wave of the Gestalts, yet only Devastator progressed beyond the 80's :???:
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:42 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:How can they be a set when the originals hardly even went together? Metroplex and Trypticon were built like they were from two completely different toylines, while Fort Max was almost twice as large as Scorponok and even larger than the first two.



Yes, but they all came under the umbrella title of City Bot.
That term didn't exist back then. In fact, it's always been unofficial, coined by the fandom. It's only been in recent years that the four were given the official name "Titan" for their group, no doubt inspired but the toy size class.

Moreover, all four originally had their own separate official designations. Metroplex was an "Autobot City", Trypticon was a "Motorized Decepticon City", Fort Max was a "Headmaster Autobot Base", and Scorponok was a "Headmaster Decepticon Base".
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:47 pm

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So two are Cities and two are Bases. The latter two being bigger than the former, of course. Naming semantics aside, they are still in a Class bracket all their own, Giant Triple Changers.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:48 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I really don't understand the mystery of Raiden's omission? It was there at the beginning with Devastator as the first wave of the Gestalts, yet only Devastator progressed beyond the 80's :???:


Personally I think Raiden is amazing. However Hasbro chose not to import the original Diaclone train robo toys as Transformers mostly because they figured US kids would not be as familiar with, or interested in a team of Bullet Trains, when no such transportation system exists in North America even now, let alone 35 years ago. Although it's Japanese roots is fully embraced now, I think initially Hasbro wanted to avoid any connection to it, as if the cleverness and ingenuity of the product was all their own. Unless like myself, you lived in areas (Like San Francisco) where you had access to toys from Asia, and the connection was obvious from the beginning ;)
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:48 pm

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Raiden never went further then Japan really, only reason fans know of him is the Internet
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:54 pm

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o.supreme wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I really don't understand the mystery of Raiden's omission? It was there at the beginning with Devastator as the first wave of the Gestalts, yet only Devastator progressed beyond the 80's :???:


Personally I think Raiden is amazing. However Hasbro chose not to import the original Diaclone train robo toys as Transformers mostly because they figured US kids would not be as familiar with, or interested in a team of Bullet Trains, when no such transportation system exists in North America even now, let alone 35 years ago. Although it's Japanese roots is fully embraced now, I think initially Hasbro wanted to avoid any connection to it, as if the cleverness and ingenuity of the product was all their own. Unless like myself, you lived in areas (Like San Francisco) where you had access to toys from Asia, and the connection was obvious from the beginning ;)


ZeroWolf wrote:Raiden never went further then Japan really, only reason fans know of him is the Internet


True. Yet JRX did exist in 2000, via Car Robots. Who again was an oddity that only appeared once. Including Astrotrain, that is 10 Train Bots that exist within Transformers and only one of them is recognised by Hasbro or Takara at all. :???: :???: :???:
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:54 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:Raiden never went further then Japan really, only reason fans know of him is the Internet


Although not nearly as prevalent, some isolated areas (see my post above), could see and purchase toys from other countries, even back in the 1980's ;) . A Close friend of mine even had 2 original Diaclone Constructicons. We even mixed them with the Hasbro ones, to make our *discolored* Devastator 8-)
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby ZeldaTheSwordsman » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:59 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I get that and clearly Trypticon and Scorponok are very different molds to their counterparts. But they should have been able to gauge interest in them from the success of Metroplex, let alone Fort Max too. The fact that those too were (clearly) a financial success should have made it apparent to Hasbro that the fans wanted all four of them IE A completed set.

:roll:
No, you don't get it. The success of Metroplex, Devastator, and Fort Max (who is a Metroplex retool, hence why we got him 2nd out of the citybots) made it apparent that Titan-class figures were viable, yes. But it doesn't make it clear how much the fans wanted who next. General sales data can't really make that kind of prediction.



No, I understood, you just missed the point from earlier. They are sets. The City Bots are a set of Four. Metroplex was a success, making however much. Metroplex, a retool, made an equivalent or greater amount. If they really wanted to Scorponok (and/or Omega Supreme) too could have been just another [extensive] retool of that mold. Realistically Trypticon is the odd one out in that respect. Given it is a set of four, as there were only two left at the time, it's not rocket science. Either way, you simply release the next Figure in the set.

:roll:
Obviously, you didn't understand.

While the cityformers were developed as counterparts to some degree and had the same rough principle of turning into a playset for smaller TFs, they never were a formalized set. That's purely a fan conceit (and one that usually leaves out the fifth mold designed on the same principle).
And even if you treat them as a set, a character being "the next Figure in the set" is not an adequate predictor of sales and fan desire. Polling the fans to create a statistical measure of their want priorities - you know, getting some actual numbers, on the other hand, is. It's not rocket science, but it is business science.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby o.supreme » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:00 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:True. Yet JRX did exist in 2000, via Car Robots. Who again was an oddity that only appeared once. Including Astrotrain, that is 10 Train Bots that exist within Transformers and only one of them is recognised by Hasbro or Takara at all. :???: :???: :???:


There are actually more:

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sixtrain
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sixliner
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Rail_Racer_(Universe)

also just because they don't have a modern release, doesn't mean they aren't recognized.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:06 pm

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o.supreme wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:True. Yet JRX did exist in 2000, via Car Robots. Who again was an oddity that only appeared once. Including Astrotrain, that is 10 Train Bots that exist within Transformers and only one of them is recognised by Hasbro or Takara at all. :???: :???: :???:


There are actually more:

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sixtrain
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sixliner
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Rail_Racer_(Universe)

also just because they don't have a modern release, doesn't mean they aren't recognized.


Not forgetting Hearts of Steel too, of course. Yet if they don't have a modern release and don't feature in a cartoon, Movie, video game or comic book, how are they recognised?

SIEGE is the perfect platform (no pun intended) to revive the Trainbots. All 13+ of them. As Scioli did in Transformers vs. GI Joe with "The Astrotrain", make them all part of the Cybertronian rail system. From Astrotrain to Rail Racer.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Ironhidensh » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:51 pm

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Oh my god...

Magnus is even smaller than I thought. :SICK:



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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby no-one » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:52 pm

Ironhidensh wrote:Oh my god...

Magnus is even smaller than I thought. :SICK:
Surely you didn't expect him to be as big as the USS Enterprise?
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby RodimusConvoy13 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:55 pm

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Ironhidensh wrote:Oh my god...

Magnus is even smaller than I thought. :SICK:



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Hey, come on now. The Enterprise-D is a big ass ship! Of course he looks tiny.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Ironhidensh » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:57 pm

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carytheone wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:Oh my god...

Magnus is even smaller than I thought. :SICK:
Surely you didn't expect him to be as big as the USS Enterprise?



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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby ZeldaTheSwordsman » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:12 pm

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About what I expected, given the mass limits (and the eight-inch height previously stated for Magnus). Of course, PotP Optimus is an oversize Optimus anyway because it's a "super mode"-type body passing itself off as Optimus' baseline robot mode. But hey, it gives us an Optimus in the same size league as Combiner Wars Megatron.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Nemesis Maximo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:19 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
o.supreme wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:True. Yet JRX did exist in 2000, via Car Robots. Who again was an oddity that only appeared once. Including Astrotrain, that is 10 Train Bots that exist within Transformers and only one of them is recognised by Hasbro or Takara at all. :???: :???: :???:


There are actually more:

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sixtrain
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sixliner
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Rail_Racer_(Universe)

also just because they don't have a modern release, doesn't mean they aren't recognized.


Not forgetting Hearts of Steel too, of course. Yet if they don't have a modern release and don't feature in a cartoon, Movie, video game or comic book, how are they recognised?

SIEGE is the perfect platform (no pun intended) to revive the Trainbots. All 13+ of them. As Scioli did in Transformers vs. GI Joe with "The Astrotrain", make them all part of the Cybertronian rail system. From Astrotrain to Rail Racer.

How is Siege the perfect platform to do Trainbots? Jon Warden is hard pressed to do a reference to anything that isn’t super Geewun; we’re all super excited at the mere possibility that a future Leader Class Optimus Prime will be styled after Galaxy Convoy, and that’s a definite maybe. But you expect the TF Design Team to do Trainbots?
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:30 pm

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Nemesis Maximo wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
o.supreme wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:True. Yet JRX did exist in 2000, via Car Robots. Who again was an oddity that only appeared once. Including Astrotrain, that is 10 Train Bots that exist within Transformers and only one of them is recognised by Hasbro or Takara at all. :???: :???: :???:


There are actually more:

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sixtrain
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sixliner
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Rail_Racer_(Universe)

also just because they don't have a modern release, doesn't mean they aren't recognized.


Not forgetting Hearts of Steel too, of course. Yet if they don't have a modern release and don't feature in a cartoon, Movie, video game or comic book, how are they recognised?

SIEGE is the perfect platform (no pun intended) to revive the Trainbots. All 13+ of them. As Scioli did in Transformers vs. GI Joe with "The Astrotrain", make them all part of the Cybertronian rail system. From Astrotrain to Rail Racer.

How is Siege the perfect platform to do Trainbots? Jon Warden is hard pressed to do a reference to anything that isn’t super Geewun; we’re all super excited at the mere possibility that a future Leader Class Optimus Prime will be styled after Galaxy Convoy, and that’s a definite maybe. But you expect the TF Design Team to do Trainbots?


Why not? Sure, the train models would need updating, but still. What works in their favor is that they can be paired off:

- Shouki and Yukikaze are respectively "0" and "200" Series Shinkansen
- Getsuei and Kaen are standalone locomotive, electric and diesel respectively
- Suiken and Seizan are commuter trains

Even more, in Diaclone they had redecos, so that's a plus. Among those, Yukikaze happens to be a Doctor Yellow train, those are used for railway diagnostics and are quite the sight in Japan, even being featured in TakaraTomy's Shinkalion line.
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Wolfman Jake » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:28 pm

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Transformers Siege Leader Class Shockwave has been a long time coming for many Classics/Generations collectors. This is certainly not the first Shockwave figure we've gotten since Classics began in 2006. We've had Fall of Cybertron Deluxe Shockwave and Combiner Wars Legends Shockwave. While both were fine figures in their own rights, neither was the right size for a modern "G1" collection for anyone concerned with scaling among characters. We even had some alternatives along the way, like Transformers Prime Beast Hunters Voyager Shockwave, which again was a good figure, though definitely a stylization of his G1 self, and the budget "Cyber Battalion" figure, which while Voyager in size was much less complicated and articulated than a like-sized figure from the Generations line. Though not ideal, all of these were reasonably affordable options as "placeholders." Now that a properly sized Generations styled Shockwave is here, is he worth the hefty $50 USD price tag normally associated with bigger "Leader Class" releases?

Siege Shockwave's robot mode is fantastic. Once again, Hasbro and Takara Tomy have succeeded with giving us a sculpt of a character in Transformers Siege that looks like he could have stepped right out of the cartoon. The proportions are right. Everything is in the right place. Everything is the right shape. The greebling detail is fantastic and really enhances the premium look and feel of the figure, something that I don't think is achieved successfully with some other figures in this line. One obvious way in which "Leader" Shockwave falls short, however, is that he's one of the smaller figures in his base "Voyager" mode, that is, without all of the extra C.O.M.B.A.T. pieces attached to him. He's a whole head shorter than Megatron. That's not so bad in a relative sense of scale, but it does pose some warranted questions about his overall value as a Leader Class figure. We'll address this more when we talk about his "accessories."

The alt mode is another potentially divisive issue with fans. Obviously, Hasbro (and Takara Tomy) are advertising the alt mode for Siege Shockwave as some sort of alien space ship. This is par for the course with G1 characters that traditionally had "gun" alt modes. Titans Return Leader Class Sixshot got stuck with a "Submarine" mode, as far as the box will tell you, which is little more than an upside down sci-fi laser gun. The same is true here with Shockwave. You can certainly achieve the G1 alt-mode look just by turning the spaceship mode upside down, taking off the extra pieces, moving a few panels, are reconnecting the hose elsewhere. Yes, the "grip" is small for an adult hand, and there is really no trigger, but it looks the part otherwise. It's a fair compromise, and adult collectors know what's going on. Hasbro and Takara Tomy have not left us high and dry on this. It's probably the most reasonable and well-executed compromise we could have while still being able to say in the most technical sense that Shockwave does not and is not intended to convert into a toy gun.

Shockwave's transformation scheme is fairly straight forward, borrowing a bit from the Masterpiece version from a few years back. It works quite well, and doesn't really have to be any more complicated than it is. Obviously, the main figure converts in the manner we expect of modern Transformers toys, but to fully transform the figure into spaceship mode, you need to do some parts forming too, a la Shockwave's wave mate, Siege Leader Class Ultra Magnus. What you get are extra pieces to fill out the "wings" in the back and add some bulk to the main body of the craft. It's a much more interesting (and convincing) spaceship with all of the accessory parts attached as intended.

The battle damage paint apps are done really well on Shockwave. Hasbro and Takara Tomy definitely went the "less is more" approach with Shockwave, and it's welcome. In the base robot mode, most of the battle damage is visible on the feet. The majority of it is actually relegated to the extra accessories, so you get a very "clean" looking basic robot mode from the knees up. Where Shockwave misses a step or two is not with paint apps, but with plastic color choices. Shockwave is indeed a DARK shade of purple, darker than even the original G1 toy, far darker than his appearances in the original cartoon. He doesn't look bad this dark purple, but it's off the mark. Similarly, his light purple hand and "gun" are too light, almost indistinguishable from the gray plastic in his thighs in some lighting conditions. In some early stock renderings and stock photos, Shockwave did sport some parts cast in a much lighter purple (biceps, wing tips, and pelvis), presumably to help break up some of the big chunks of solid dark purple. Ultimately, Hasbro and Takara Tomy went for a more accurate uniform purple layout, but I can't help but think how much more accurate this figure would have looked had they used that intermediate purple plastic color from some parts of the prototype figure instead of the dark purple they chose for the official retail release.

Now for the accessories. I've already talked around them a few times during this review, namely in terms of overall value and their use in alt mode, so here I'll describe their use more expressly in robot mode. Shockwave gets a couple of platform shoes, extra gun arms, and an upsized backpack. It's a new design for Shockwave, not based on any previous look or iteration of the character. It's fun to play with a bit, but unlike Ultra Magnus, where the main draw is the completed "armored up" robot mode, most fans will want to stick with the base Shockwave figure in their displays. The armor doesn't really increase Shockwave's height substantially either. It brings him up to about the same height as Siege Voyager Class Megatron, with just a bit of added bulk. Ultra Magnus still towers above Shockwave in their respective armored-up modes, and they're in the same size class! Don't worry, though. Just because the armor pieces may not be all that interesting to you, that doesn't mean you need to relegate Shockwave's extra accessories to a storage bin. They can be reconfigured into a Shockwave-themed drone, that Shockwave can either ride upon like a surfing gorilla or place on a flight stand (sold separately!) to have a hovering drone at his side, a la Triclops from Masters of the Universe 2002. It's more fun than you might think, and it does add a little more play value to the figure overall. It certainly fits in with the C.O.M.B.A.T. system of the Siege line, especially when compared to some of the Deluxe class figures like Cog, Sixgun, and Brunt.

What you essentially get with Siege Leader Class Shockwave is a great, but slightly under sized, Voyager class Shockwave figure that looks G1 almost to a T. He also comes with a color-coordinated "C.O.M.B.A.T." buddy in roughly the Deluxe size class. Like Cog, Sixgun, or Brunt, said "buddy" can be disassembled and configured onto the Shockwave figure (or any Deluxe or Voyager Class Siege figure) in multiple ways. Yes, you could use the Shockwave accessory parts on other figures if you wanted. It's all the same 5mm pegs and holes. The parts will still look very unmistakably like arms and such from Shockwave, though. Unlike the Deluxe size Weaponizers, Shockwave's drone doesn't have its own robot mode identity. If it's not armor on robot mode or parts of the alt mode, it's just a little drone shaped like Shockwave's iconic chest (or maybe his head). So, does one smallish Voyager ($30 USD) plus one Deluxe Weaponizer ($20 USD) without a robot mode really equal one Leader Class figure at $50 USD? I'd say, nearly so, but not quite. We're paying a premium for a package deal that not everyone is really interested in. I'm glad to FINALLY have a Shockwave figure for my collection like this one, but I think I would have happily paid just $30 to have the figure without the extra accessories involved.

I can't blame anyone who might want to wait to grab Shockwave at a discount, but it's definitely something you don't want to let slip through your fingers in the long-run. It's a VERY good Shockwave figure, with some extra stuff that you can literally either take or leave.

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Mindmaster » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:02 pm

Motto: "For I have dipped my hands in muddied waters, and, withdrawing them, find 'tis better to be a commander than a common man!"
Weapon: Dark Saber Sword
Hopefully I’ll find these when I deploy to Korea in less than a month... :-D
They call me “Tanker Chungus”!

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Nemesis Maximo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:07 pm

Motto: "Always Be’s-ing and do’s-ing, never cheesing or choosing!"
Weapon: Gatling Cannon
Nice review, Wolfman. He might be small, he may be a glorified Voyager and he may not be exactly worth $50, but God damn... I have needed this Shockwave in my life for so long. I hope to find him this week.

And good luck out on Deployment, Mindmaster!
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Wolfman Jake » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:03 am

Motto: ""A mountain with a wolf on it stands a little taller."
-Edward Hoagland"
Weapon: Retractable Mecha-Fangs
Mindmaster wrote:Hopefully I’ll find these when I deploy to Korea in less than a month... :-D


Good luck with your Transformers hunt abroad! :)

Nemesis Maximo wrote:Nice review, Wolfman. He might be small, he may be a glorified Voyager and he may not be exactly worth $50, but God damn... I have needed this Shockwave in my life for so long. I hope to find him this week.


Thanks! I've added some pictures to my Shockwave review to whet your appetite. ;)
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:06 am

Motto: "Individual freedom above all else."
Ironhidensh wrote:Oh my god...

Magnus is even smaller than I thought. :SICK:



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If you don't want him I'll gladly take him off your hands. :-D

So it's safe to say that both Magnus and Shockwave are glorified voyagers?
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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby ZeldaTheSwordsman » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:21 am

Motto: "Earthrise restock or riot"
Such is the pain of the Leader-class' mass limit these days. If it was at its Unicron Trilogy through HFTD (and possibly DOTM but not sure) limit then it might be possible for their respective super modes to be substantially bigger compared to the Voyager inner robot, but nowadays that would require them to be Supreme-class. Especially if you wanted Magnus' G1 trailer at its proper relative size.

But they're still highly desirable to me for having said Voyager (well, Voyaluxe in Shockwave's case from what I hear, which combined with the shoulderpads resembling his legs makes me suspect he's a PotP holdover whose evolution armor got redesigned to fit the C.O.M.B.A.T. system) inner robots and super modes.

I do think it makes Ultra Magnus' super robot mode undersize for Generations... But then so is Combiner Wars Ultra Magnus in my book - he's no bigger than the original Ultra Magnus toy and in fact his trailer is a bit smaller. A Generations Ultra Magnus that was to full scale (as in, as big compared to Generations Autobot cars as the G1 UM toy was to the G1 Autobot cars) would have a Voyager-size cab and a trailer big enough to hold 4 Deluxe-class Autobots in car mode, and stand close to a Combiner Wars combiner in height in armor mode!

SIEGE Magnus at least has a Voyager cab, and that cab is a fully-fledged inner robot which gives him play value the CW toy doesn't have. And since that inner robot has armor connectors, it's open to the possibility of bigger trailer armor without really needing to do anything to the cab. Whereas CW Magnus doesn't have an inner robot period, and the cab is too small anyway.
Last edited by ZeldaTheSwordsman on Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
WANT:
* Cyb. Galvatron key, missiles
* Omega Lock
* Primus Cyber Key, coattail panel
* Powerlinx Comettor
* Leader Sentinel Prime sword, shield
* RiD Galvy dragon head, beast arms
* Leader Ironhide windshield, R hood assy.
* Cyb. Wing Saber left chestplate (argh)

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Re: Transformers War for Cybertron: Siege Discussion Thread

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:29 am

Motto: "Individual freedom above all else."
william-james88 wrote:
Rodimus Prime wrote:
Wolfman wrote:...Leader Shockwave next.
Yes, plz! :D And could you take a couple of shots of Megatron and Shockwave without his extra stuff side by side? They should be the same size, right?


You are not gonna like the answer. Shockwave is smaller than megatron and only becomes as tall when you add the armour bits.
:shock: :evil:
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