The Energon Pub

by **TM Jet Convoy** » Sat May 06, 2006 1:35 pm

Inspired by Hobbytf...I began to work on my own version of THS Ultra magnus. And with the encouragement from Evilratbat to post my some of my pics here..

So here goes.. WIP

On the drawing board...

The back of the chest

The front

The top of the chest

The parts...

Wheels with suspension

Side of the legs before the suspension is covered..

The face..

The semi assembled.

The Diagonal view.

All comments and suggestion will be welcome and greatly appreciated. :lol:

by **piranacon** » Sat May 06, 2006 2:48 pm

both these magnus trailers are very impressive, i dont want to compare them but they both have very cool differant ways of transforming,

what are those ball joints, they look familior, also are you leaving this made out of styrene or casting it in resin

News Credits: 1 · by **evilratbat** » Sat May 06, 2006 3:46 pm

glad to see you got my pm jc and posted on here ,

News Credits: 1 · by **TFmaster** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:43 pm

Great work but this really should be in Scratchbuilders forum.

Anyhoo, I really look forward to seeing this guy compleated. He looks sweet so far and the wheels having suspension is just awesome.

Keep up the great work man and here's hoping for a gallery when it's finnished.

TFM

by **Pun-3X** » Sat May 06, 2006 7:52 pm

For me, I always got used to Ultra Magnus as a different character with his own full body (like in the cartoon) even though I had the toy..and really used the white cab as Optimus Prime since I didn't have one at the time. As a result, I'm kinda hoping to see someone do an Ultra magnus that is more a unit kitbash than armor.

With that said, these are some AWESOME kitbashes for Magnus' armor. The work that's going into these things look like they're really paying off. I think the idea is just always there whenever a new Prime comes out. And truth be told, I much prefer these new-armor kitbashes than the simple Prime repaints. (though, not to take away from some of the good repaints I've seen lately)

Really want to see this thing with it's colors.

by **Pun-3X** » Sat May 06, 2006 8:12 pm

I don't think he was ever even talked about as an armor bot in the show--unless they addressed that in the Japanese Headmasters series. Otherwise, it would simply be the fandom assuming he was on the basis of the G1 toy.

Even in the Movie, when he was blown to pieces, it wasn't shown as any kind of "armor" chunks with a smaller body inside. That whole thing represents Magnus.

The first we've seen of the whole armor-concept brought to any kind of canon was in Dreamwave's comic series. (where they did a lot of 'toy-to-cartoon' mixing styles, like having characters wearing masks or 'helmets' that looked like their toy appearances)

I do agree about RiD Magnus. I think since then it's been mostly used as a concept to 'repaint' a Prime and market the thing a second time.

by **jimsloth** » Sun May 07, 2006 3:48 pm

Pun-3X wrote:...Even in the Movie, when he was blown to pieces, it wasn't shown as any kind of "armor" chunks with a smaller body inside. That whole thing represents Magnus...

In the movie (atleast, if not in the series, haven't watched season 3 in years) there is a transformation shot that strongly resembles just how the toy transforms, the cab pops ahead of the trailer, legs fold down and the trailer parts all come around said cab. Because of this, I have always assumed there was no discrepency between the toy armor and the cartoon. I mean if you had "Ultra" armor, and had the option of either wearing it, being powered up by it, or not, being more vulnerable, would you ever take it off? The cartoon also never showed when Prime first met Ultra Magnus, so we never hear his origin story.

by **Tramp** » Sun May 07, 2006 4:37 pm

Well, according to Dreamwave, G1 Ultra Magnus, and Prime are brothers, just like in RID. So, it makes sense that he look, like Prime but in a different colors cheme.

by **Pun-3X** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:57 pm

Tramp wrote:Well, according to Dreamwave, G1 Ultra Magnus and Prime are brothers

That's what I was refering to. That relationship, as well as the 'man beneath the armor,' was never explored in the cartoon until Dreamwave did in the last couple of years. And after a bit, they seemed to be taking "G1" into their own canon as well. (I think Pat had even mentioned as such in some interview, that he was planning on taking G1 in DW's own direction...before the bankruptcy)

As for the transformation sequence, I wouldn't expect it to be different from the toy's basic transformation. Whether it's considered 'armor' or the full body--even the way Magnus transforms--is up to the viewer. In the end, I think you can pretty much go either way with it, as the old G1 cartoon basically leaves it completely alone. My preference was to think of that as the full character.

...so, yeah, this went somewhat off topic... :oops:

by **jimsloth** » Sun May 07, 2006 7:39 pm

So back on topic, Jet Convoy, where did you get that face?

by **Tramp** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:09 pm

Pun-3X wrote:
Tramp wrote:Well, according to Dreamwave, G1 Ultra Magnus and Prime are brothers

That's what I was refering to. That relationship, as well as the 'man beneath the armor,' was never explored in the cartoon until Dreamwave did in the last couple of years. And after a bit, they seemed to be taking "G1" into their own canon as well. (I think Pat had even mentioned as such in some interview, that he was planning on taking G1 in DW's own direction...before the bankruptcy)

As for the transformation sequence, I wouldn't expect it to be different from the toy's basic transformation. Whether it's considered 'armor' or the full body--even the way Magnus transforms--is up to the viewer. In the end, I think you can pretty much go either way with it, as the old G1 cartoon basically leaves it completely alone. My preference was to think of that as the full character.

...so, yeah, this went somewhat off topic...

Actually, it really isn?t off topic because it concerns the design of the character, and why he is the way he is. Secondly, DW based their continuity off the toys, not the TV show, hence, for example, why Grimlock and the Dinobots actually came from Cybertron and not built on Earth by Wheeljack. Thus, it makes perfect sense for Ultra Magnus to be Prime?s brother, since, under his armor, he is virtually identical to Prime.

by **Pun-3X** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:32 am

Oh, I know. I made mention of that earlier as well. They definitely fit a lot of toy-based concepts into the comic.

Now, I don't want you taking this wrong, so just understand I'm trying to re-explain myself. (and maybe you got this already and I'm being redundant) The concepts DW used in regards to Magnus and Prime do make perfect sense, considering what the toy design is. The fact that underneath is a white Prime cab gives the perfect explanation as to how that can be true. So I completely agree with you there.

Where I'm coming from is the point of view of the G1 cartoon and comic, BEFORE Dreamwave came along. And I don't know if I made it clear, but I'm not disputing DW's approach when bringing this up--simply that I grew up with the idea of Magnus in the cartoon. he always was represented as a whole bot, even if one could 'assume' he was armored on the basis that it was never addressed one way or the other.

But, I guess since we've delved back into the original toy-concept, the idea of the armor suit has appealed to the greater fandom I think. I'm one of those leftovers that misses the 'all one bot' concept. This may explain why I'm a bigger fan of the RiD Magnus than any other repaint/concept/etc. as of late.

by **Tramp** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:56 am

I understood fully where you were coming from, and certainly took no offense. I was thirteen when G1 first came out, so I do know where you are coming from. The thing is though, that the cartoon and old Marvel comics completely ignored what the toys said about the characters on their tech-specs/bio cards so there was already a serious discontinuity there. They also didn?t really pay more than a cursory attention to the way the toys were designed. Granted, in some cases (Ironhide and Ratchet) this was a good thing, but in others, it was not. Ultra Magnus is a good example of the latter. But, then again, this was the early-mid eighties, and animation and comics were still stuck in the seventies as far as style and quality. It wasn?t until the late nineties and later that the cartoons and comics began to better resemble their toy counterparts, or followed the toys more closely as far as character bios and histories went. It wasn?t until Dreamwave got the license that the stories and likenesses were more faithfully based off the toy history and designs.

by **Pun-3X** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:14 am

Agreed. The whole Rumble/Frenzy fiasco came off of that. (and, naturally, I'm a RibFir for it :lol:

). And I think the bios stated Mirage was the one that could project holograms of himself (instead of cloaking) and Hound simply had a hologram gun.

DW definitely took to the toys more than the G1 style in some cases, though that didn't always work. (in the first MTMTE volume, Air Raid and Blitzwing look horrid.) Still, I guess it did allow for a different look at the G1 line in regards to added media.

by **Tramp** » Mon May 08, 2006 11:51 am

Exactly. And I actually preferred that they looked to the toys rather than the TV show. Hence why I loved the fact that they finally showed Ultra Magnus without his armor, showing conclusively that yes, it is armor as it should be.

by **jimsloth** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:38 pm

Tramp wrote:Exactly. And I actually preferred that they looked to the toys rather than the TV show. Hence why I loved the fact that they finally showed Ultra Magnus without his armor, showing conclusively that yes, it is armor as it should be.

... But..
The cartoon never said it wasn't armor. The old comic never said it wasn't armor. Omition does not = negation. Its like arguing that because in the G1 cartoon prime never had a gas pump, then clearly he should never have a gas pump. NO. It just means they didn't show him with it. They didn't show prime 24 hours a day. They never showed Spike taking a dump. He was human. We can assume at some point, yes he did indeed take a dump. Magnus always had armor on in the cartoon, yes. Spike always had pants on in the cartoon. They could come off. They didn't show it, but that doesn't mean they are adheared to his body.

by **Tramp** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:54 pm

jimsloth wrote:
Tramp wrote:Exactly. And I actually preferred that they looked to the toys rather than the TV show. Hence why I loved the fact that they finally showed Ultra Magnus without his armor, showing conclusively that yes, it is armor as it should be.

... But..
The cartoon never said it wasn't armor. The old comic never said it wasn't armor. Omition does not = negation. Its like arguing that because in the G1 cartoon prime never had a gas pump, then clearly he should never have a gas pump. NO. It just means they didn't show him with it. They didn't show prime 24 hours a day. They never showed Spike taking a dump. He was human. We can assume at some point, yes he did indeed take a dump. Magnus always had armor on in the cartoon, yes. Spike always had pants on in the cartoon. They could come off. They didn't show it, but that doesn't mean they are adheared to his body.

I agree whole-heartily, Jim. Tell that to those people who think that because Magnus was never shown without his armor in the show that it was not armor. My point was that DW showed conclusively that it was indeed armor.

by **jimsloth** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:58 pm

sorry tramp. didn't mean to aim that at you so much. Just meant to say that it doesn't seem quite like the Rumble/Frenzy or the Skyfire/Jetfire debates. Really, I never even knew there Was a debate at all until this thread. By the way incase I didn't already say it I LOVE the way this toy is coming along.

by **Ramrider** » Mon May 08, 2006 6:03 pm

Pun-3X wrote:I think the bios stated Mirage was the one that could project holograms of himself (instead of cloaking) and Hound simply had a hologram gun.

True-ish. Hound's gun was used to create simple 3-d holograms like maps. He certainly couldn't create complex and realistic illusions like in the cartoon.
And Mirage didn't create holograms or turn invisible. His electroscrambler simply bent light around him and his opponents, so that he appeared to be in a different location to where he actually was.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

News Credits: 1 · by **TFmaster** » Mon May 08, 2006 6:05 pm

This has to be the stupidest debate I ever heard.

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...yadda.

I don't think that the big wigs thought they needed to exsplain something that's obviouse. :roll:

TFM

by **TM Jet Convoy** » Mon May 08, 2006 11:09 pm

Wow.. I didnt know my work can roll into such a debate.
Either way, amour or not. I am trying follow it closely to the G1 toys and yet try to live up with THS kind of details, articulation.

Here's a couple of pics in Truck mode.

they are far from completion. Since the pics where taken. Modification had been carried out to make the fenders thinner. to align better with the wheels. till then.

cheers

by **TM Jet Convoy** » Mon May 08, 2006 11:10 pm

jimsloth wrote:So back on topic, Jet Convoy, where did you get that face?

The face was sculpt. Using Epoxy putty.
cheers,

by **Hobbyist Prime** » Tue May 09, 2006 6:38 pm

Honestly I don't care one way or an other if it's armor or not the original was cool and this is much cooler!!!!! Excellent job!

by **RavageX-9** » Wed May 10, 2006 5:26 am

Sweet! finally someone is making Prime's lower legs into the thighs and not trying to make them into Magnus's lower legs! Looks much better. Impressive engineering so far.

The thickness of the top rails in trailor mode look very thin, although in robot mode if those are the same, they look fine. Still, just thought I'd mention the vehicle mode, since cars have to be suspended on it.

I'm not sure what kind of accuracy you're going for, if it's mostly toy or mostly cartoon, but if it's cartoon, I think his head could do with a lot of attention. I think the flaps sticking out the front on the sides of his helmet need to be thicker. the vent on his head looks pretty wide and short. maybe a slightly longer chin with his mouth higher. (not the block on front, I just mean the surface of his face. actually maybe that block should be wider) and I think a slightly narrower nose. and a flatter jawline. I don't know 100%. I don't watch enough G1, but I can recognize enough. I would definately find some reference pictures that were drawn well to go off of. (plenty of frames where the drawings are off. I guess the movie would probably be the best source)

by **Ramrider** » Wed May 10, 2006 2:55 pm

The detail on this thing is incredible, and it looks pretty stable too. Is it basically all made from styrene, as it looks like?

I'm especially impressed with head sculpt. And here I thought it came from an Alt or something!

Fantastic work so far, JC... don't let us rush you, but hurry up so we can see it finished!