The Energon Pub

[pittsburg_22_m]

MINT IN BOX?

I bought a Rodimus Prime TRU that was advertised as such but when it came it was in box....just wrapped in bubblewrap and tossed in the box without the plastic insert.

Am I out of line for expecting mint in box to mean it comes with everything including everything with the box and that its basically only an open box?

Seller Response: Pics I had on auction never showed insert. Description didn't say it included insert. It stated "Everything seen in pics is included". So if you had a concern on this issue before why did you not ask a question before bidding. And MIB does not mean insert should be included. MIB=Mint In Box not MISB which is Mint in Sealed Box.

[Leonardo]

MIB does mean "Mint in box", which usually means the toy is of mint condition and as in its box. Technically, that definition doesn't include all the accessories, paperwork, etc. If it had said "MIB complete" or, as the seller has stated, "MISB", then that would be a different story.

You're not "out of line", as you put it, per se for expecting that, but if the seller stated "everything in pics included" or didn't state that it was complete then there's not much that you can really do, I'm afraid. At best, you could argue he/she was sneaky with the wording, but he/she hasn't lied or strictly misrepresented, unfortunately.

[Redimus]

Report him.

There are far too many people who havent got a fecking clue what MIB stands for, and only put it on cuase they've seen every other asshat do it...

Slap some Negative on his ass too.
As a seller, a Negative responce will hurt him more than the inevitable retalitory negative'll hurt you as a buyer.

(And on that note, I wish they'd change the system so that the buyer CANT rate the seller untill the seller has rated the buyer. The you wouldnt get douches giving you a Negative cuase they provided a crappy service and you said so.)

[DREWCIFER]

MIB should include everything. MIB is the same as MISB, only, it's not sealed. Otherwise it wouldn't be MINT!

[Leonardo]

But "mint" doesn't refer to what the contents are, just the condition or quality of those contents.

[Redimus]

But "mint" doesn't refer to what the contents are, just the condition or quality of those contents.

I kinda think it does.

If Sunstar were here right now, she'd give you a long an detailed explination of why.

Surfice to say, the seller is an Asshat.

Mint means the toy is in perfect condition.

It can hardly be in perfect condition if everything isnt there...

If you bought an MIB Headmaster, would you accept it if the toy was 'mint' but it was missing all accessories including the headmaster? F**k no. Without it's accessories, it is not complete, and therefore isnt mint.

[Leonardo]

True, but I wouldn't necessarily expect a mint in box toy to have all the paperwork (such as the catalogue) or the plastic inserts, twist ties, etc.

For example, if I bought a C9 or C10 ( ) Slag in box and it was missing one missile, I wouldn't have any qualms with the seller if they'd advertised it as MIB, especially if they hadn't said it was complete.

Maybe this is open to interpretation, in the same way gradings are (one collector's C8 is another's C6, etc).

[TFBuyer]

Bottom line here, though, is that one man's "mint" is another man's C-6...see the wheeljackslab.com thread for more on that. E-bay makes no promises--it's buyer beware.

That being said, I've been burned a few times myself on this kind of thing. If the seller is established and has good feedback, maybe you could ask for a refund and send it back because it wasn't what you expected...

[Leonardo]

^Worth a try, methinks.

Also, what exactly was missing? Was it just the plastic insert?

It's always up to the buyer to find out what exactly is for sale if the listing isn't clear, though. One shouldn't be afraid to hit the "Contact seller" link!

[pittsburg_22_m]

SELLER RESPONSE: How is this vague or deceptive in any way when pics don't show insert and Item auctions says everything in picture. I was not hiding anything. You
just trying to put the blame on me for your lack of reading and ability to look at a picture.








This is so utterly retarded. I don't know how anyone can call something MINT IN BOX when something is missing. Would you call a 1984 G1 Optimus Prime MIB when it was wrapped in bubblewrap and thrown in its original box without the styrofoam insert? Oh hell no! So I see this as no different and definitely deceptive that though his pics didn't show the insert, one should be able to safely assume MINT IN BOX means friggin MINT IN BOX. Reminds me of that asshat WHEELJACKSLAB.....uh dude the figure is c9 but the stickers aren't included in the grading.

(Yeah I've had a string of sellers that fail to mention things lately.....ugh!)

[Leonardo]

Would you call a 1984 G1 Optimus Prime MIB when it was wrapped in bubblewrap and thrown in its original box without the styrofoam insert?

That depends on the quality of the toy. Is the toy itself complete and in mint condition? If it is, and the toy is in its box, I can't objectively see what's wrong with calling it MIB if it is a mint toy in its box.

As I said earlier, the seller has been sneaky and I would think twice about buying from him/her again.

Also, where is this wheeljackslab.com thread as mentioned by TFBuyer?

[DISCHARGE]

I would say the MIB refers to the toy not the box or insert itself. It would have to say 'Complete' for me personally to
expect everything to be present.

[pittsburg_22_m]

I would say the MIB refers to the toy not the box or insert itself. It would have to say 'Complete' for me personally to
expect everything to be present.

I could see if it was missing a small gun or something insignificant but if you're not sending the insert its not MIB to me, it's MINT WITH BOX. Either way I'm sick of buying figures. I'm selling all this **** once the movie comes out, thanks to ebayers.

[GetterDragun]

I thought it meant Men In Black.

Anyways, if you see MIB, you are still taking a chance. When I see this I always ask:

What is the condition of the box and insert?
Are stickers applied?
Is all paperwork present?
And obviously toy condition if it is not stated.

[Leonardo]

I would say the MIB refers to the toy not the box or insert itself. It would have to say 'Complete' for me personally to
expect everything to be present.

I could see if it was missing a small gun or something insignificant but if you're not sending the insert its not MIB to me, it's MINT WITH BOX. Either way I'm sick of buying figures. I'm selling all this **** once the movie comes out, thanks to ebayers.

I think this proves the earlier point that it is all subjective, because it depends on what the buyer considers to be "significant". To you, clearly, the insert is crucial to the classifciation of MIB, while a small gun (to use your example) isn't. To me, personally, the insert isn't crucial to it being MIB, but maybe to people like Red the small gun would be. It all seems to be personal perspective.

[pittsburg_22_m]

Either way, if you know something is missing and fail to mention it and fall back to the "its not in the pic" is a real puss cop out.

[Leonardo]

Yes, it is. I take it the seller isn't budging on this, correct?

[DISCHARGE]

I can see your point in that it should have been listed MINT WITH BOX instead of MINT IN BOX.
If I had been the seller I would have offered a refund
if you had been so displeased.
Also be weary because there is a difference in MISB and MIMSB.

[Dagon]

MIB is a touchy subject.

Yeah, what's the problem with Wheeljackslab? I've bought from him a number of times and never had a problem.

[Swerve]

On the same note as MIB, what do you guys think of when you see 100%? I see this far too often and usually the seller means they think it has all it's guns. missles, etc. If it were 100% wouldn't it have all the stickers, paperwork, box. I guess I'm not sure what to expect when I see 100% because there are so many different ideas as to what 100% actually means.

Also, would you consider a figure to be "mint" if it was an older G1 figure that was yellowing or had peeling or missing stickers? I guess everyone has different ideas of what mint is, but I feel if the stickers are peeling or missing or if there is yellowing, it isn't exactly mint shape.

[pittsburg_22_m]

MIB is a touchy subject.

Yeah, what's the problem with Wheeljackslab? I've bought from him a number of times and never had a problem.

http://seibertron.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3789&sid=

[DREWCIFER]

Ok, it can be said that there is great division about what MIB is. However, I don't see why.

Can everyone agree on what MISB means? It means that the box and contents are exactly as they were the day that the package was bought. The factory tape is still in place and nothing has been removed. Hence, MISB.

So MIB should be extactly the same, minus the factory tape being sealed.

Now, condition comes after this, i.e. Yellowing of plastic and/or box wear. This is where the grading comes in and is totaly subject to persons opinion.

All in all, I would be p!ssed with this particular transaction. HOWEVER, the seller did say, "Everything seen in pics is included". This one statment means bassically buyer beware and there is little recourse. I agree that it sucks, but legally, the warning was there.

[TheMuffin]

I don't see what all the hubbub is about. MIB does not mean complete except for the item being unsealed. It means the toy is mint... And it's in the box. How people would think that means complete I'm unsure.

[Gutter Bunny]

On the same note as MIB, what do you guys think of when you see 100%? I see this far too often and usually the seller means they think it has all it's guns. missles, etc. If it were 100% wouldn't it have all the stickers, paperwork, box. I guess I'm not sure what to expect when I see 100% because there are so many different ideas as to what 100% actually means.

Also, would you consider a figure to be "mint" if it was an older G1 figure that was yellowing or had peeling or missing stickers? I guess everyone has different ideas of what mint is, but I feel if the stickers are peeling or missing or if there is yellowing, it isn't exactly mint shape.

my personal favorite is 110% complete because shockwave has his battery cover...well if he didnt it wouldnt be 100% complete now would it?

On subject; I sadly have to agree that MIB does not necessarily indicate MIMB or even complete. I feel the seller should have given mention to the fact that pieces were missing (kinda like when robot-points are cut out). However if CLEAR pictures were given showing that the insert was missing then he was not fully deceptive.

[Bonger]

Bullshit.

Mint in Box means Box + tray + inserts period. Morevover, the figure should not have loose joints, more than minimal sticker or paint wear and should have no yellowing or chrmoe damage.

Mint in Box used to signify like new. One step below misb. Ebay sellers have been getting away with crap by using the "everything as pictured" line and then using a crappy little pic.

Garbage. Report his ass. I think some people's expectations of what mib have been diluted by dealing with subpar sellers and/or by trying to inflate their own collection's perceived value by throwing 2nd rate figures into crappy boxes.