The Energon Pub

[babylon queen]

I heard from the grapevine that at the end of the movie,Starscream will turn into BA like the way Elita-one did in animated. I told my friends they were crazy. IS there any evidence of this rumor?

[Autobot032]

No. That rumor has not been heard before except now. Starscream won't be turning into another character at the end of the film. Something that drastic would be leaked by now.

Are you sure you didn't come up with this idea?

[LordGrift]

I'm not following Animated series. Can anyone explain this idea with Starscream turning into another character?

[Autobot032]

I'm not following Animated series. Can anyone explain this idea with Starscream turning into another character?

I'll try and answer your question as best as I possibly can, but first you must listen to me about one thing:

This rumor is a lie. A big, fat lie. Follow me so far? You're being lied to in the first post.

Now onto your questions.

The idea of Starscream turning into someone else isn't going to happen. Starscream turned into a ghost in G1, but that involved Unicron and a bunch of G1 episodes, etc. It has nothing to do with the new Bay movieverse.

In Animated, Elita-1, a friend of Sentinel and Optimus (both Primes), fell to her doom into a pit of alien spiders, and they thought she had died. The spiders injected her with their genetic material which caused her to become techno-organic (think Transmetals from Beast Wars), and she changed her name to Blackarachnia. She hunted down Sentinel and Optimus for vengeance.

As you can see, Elita and Starscream have nothing to do with each other. They're not even in the same TF series, so it's impossible that the movieverse Starscream would change into Blackarachnia. Not only would he have to change forms, but he'd have to change his gender.

The rumor is a lie. A big, fat lie. And the people starting it should be ashamed of themselves.

[JetOptimus23]

I'm not following Animated series. Can anyone explain this idea with Starscream turning into another character?

I'll try and answer your question as best as I possibly can, but first you must listen to me about one thing:

This rumor is a lie. A big, fat lie. Follow me so far? You're being lied to in the first post.

Now onto your questions.

The idea of Starscream turning into someone else isn't going to happen. Starscream turned into a ghost in G1, but that involved Unicron and a bunch of G1 episodes, etc. It has nothing to do with the new Bay movieverse.

In Animated, Elita-1, a friend of Sentinel and Optimus (both Primes), fell to her doom into a pit of alien spiders, and they thought she had died. The spiders injected her with their genetic material which caused her to become techno-organic (think Transmetals from Beast Wars), and she changed her name to Blackarachnia. She hunted down Sentinel and Optimus for vengeance.

As you can see, Elita and Starscream have nothing to do with each other. They're not even in the same TF series, so it's impossible that the movieverse Starscream would change into Blackarachnia. Not only would he have to change forms, but he'd have to change his gender.

The rumor is a lie. A big, fat lie. And the people starting it should be ashamed of themselves.

Actually, one of the bikes in RoTF was Elita-1 so technically...
Also, at the end of the movie? Isn't this the last one? So why bother?

One more thing...BA's a girl! Starscream isn't...i think.

[Prime Riblet]

I'm not following Animated series. Can anyone explain this idea with Starscream turning into another character?

I'll try and answer your question as best as I possibly can, but first you must listen to me about one thing:

This rumor is a lie. A big, fat lie. Follow me so far? You're being lied to in the first post.

Now onto your questions.

The idea of Starscream turning into someone else isn't going to happen. Starscream turned into a ghost in G1, but that involved Unicron and a bunch of G1 episodes, etc. It has nothing to do with the new Bay movieverse.

In Animated, Elita-1, a friend of Sentinel and Optimus (both Primes), fell to her doom into a pit of alien spiders, and they thought she had died. The spiders injected her with their genetic material which caused her to become techno-organic (think Transmetals from Beast Wars), and she changed her name to Blackarachnia. She hunted down Sentinel and Optimus for vengeance.

As you can see, Elita and Starscream have nothing to do with each other. They're not even in the same TF series, so it's impossible that the movieverse Starscream would change into Blackarachnia. Not only would he have to change forms, but he'd have to change his gender.

The rumor is a lie. A big, fat lie. And the people starting it should be ashamed of themselves.

Actually, one of the bikes in RoTF was Elita-1 so technically...
Also, at the end of the movie? Isn't this the last one? So why bother?

One more thing...BA's a girl! Starscream isn't...i think.

Actually, in the movie all 3 bikes are interlinked pieces of one entity named Arcee. The 3 bikes having individual identities has purely to do with the toy line, and it has nothing to do with the movie.

[JetOptimus23]

okay, u got me.

[adamassc]

I'm not following Animated series. Can anyone explain this idea with Starscream turning into another character?

I'll try and answer your question as best as I possibly can, but first you must listen to me about one thing:

This rumor is a lie. A big, fat lie. Follow me so far? You're being lied to in the first post.

Now onto your questions.

The idea of Starscream turning into someone else isn't going to happen. Starscream turned into a ghost in G1, but that involved Unicron and a bunch of G1 episodes, etc. It has nothing to do with the new Bay movieverse.

In Animated, Elita-1, a friend of Sentinel and Optimus (both Primes), fell to her doom into a pit of alien spiders, and they thought she had died. The spiders injected her with their genetic material which caused her to become techno-organic (think Transmetals from Beast Wars), and she changed her name to Blackarachnia. She hunted down Sentinel and Optimus for vengeance.

As you can see, Elita and Starscream have nothing to do with each other. They're not even in the same TF series, so it's impossible that the movieverse Starscream would change into Blackarachnia. Not only would he have to change forms, but he'd have to change his gender.

The rumor is a lie. A big, fat lie. And the people starting it should be ashamed of themselves.

Actually, one of the bikes in RoTF was Elita-1 so technically...
Also, at the end of the movie? Isn't this the last one? So why bother?

One more thing...BA's a girl! Starscream isn't...i think.

Well, there was that time in France...

[KingEmperor]

I'm not following Animated series. Can anyone explain this idea with Starscream turning into another character?

I'll try and answer your question as best as I possibly can, but first you must listen to me about one thing:

This rumor is a lie. A big, fat lie. Follow me so far? You're being lied to in the first post.

Now onto your questions.

The idea of Starscream turning into someone else isn't going to happen. Starscream turned into a ghost in G1, but that involved Unicron and a bunch of G1 episodes, etc. It has nothing to do with the new Bay movieverse.

In Animated, Elita-1, a friend of Sentinel and Optimus (both Primes), fell to her doom into a pit of alien spiders, and they thought she had died. The spiders injected her with their genetic material which caused her to become techno-organic (think Transmetals from Beast Wars), and she changed her name to Blackarachnia. She hunted down Sentinel and Optimus for vengeance.

As you can see, Elita and Starscream have nothing to do with each other. They're not even in the same TF series, so it's impossible that the movieverse Starscream would change into Blackarachnia. Not only would he have to change forms, but he'd have to change his gender.

The rumor is a lie. A big, fat lie. And the people starting it should be ashamed of themselves.

Actually, one of the bikes in RoTF was Elita-1 so technically...
Also, at the end of the movie? Isn't this the last one? So why bother?

One more thing...BA's a girl! Starscream isn't...i think.

Well, there was that time in France...

Haha. I know EXACTLY what you're referring to.

[Skywarp_86]

Everything about these Michael Bay movies is headache-inducing. I hope they reboot the franchise with someone more loyal to the mythology at the helm...

[Sky-Quake]

this is the stupidest thing I ever heard if Starscream turns into anybody it should be G1 Starscream

[Autobot032]

this is the stupidest thing I ever heard if Starscream turns into anybody it should be G1 Starscream

*facepalms*

Dude, it's not real. It's a lie. The rumor is completely false. Starscream doesn't turn into Elita-1. Starscream DIES in the next movie.

DIES

[Blurrz]

Everything about these Michael Bay movies is headache-inducing. I hope they reboot the franchise with someone more loyal to the mythology at the helm...

Yeah, because clearly something's not following the mythology when the Autobots are led by Optimus Prime, the Decepticons are led by Megatron, Optimus Prime is prone to dying, the most powerful thing in the Universe is the Matrix of Leadership, the forefathers of the Transformers are the Primes, Starscream's traitor prone, Ironhide's trigger happy, Bumblebee's the kid-favourite character, and Ratchet's a medic. Yeah, NONE of that was in Transformers mythology before.

[Autobot032]

Everything about these Michael Bay movies is headache-inducing. I hope they reboot the franchise with someone more loyal to the mythology at the helm...

Yeah, because clearly something's not following the mythology when the Autobots are led by Optimus Prime, the Decepticons are led by Megatron, Optimus Prime is prone to dying, the most powerful thing in the Universe is the Matrix of Leadership, the forefathers of the Transformers are the Primes, Starscream's traitor prone, Ironhide's trigger happy, Bumblebee's the kid-favourite character, and Ratchet's a medic. Yeah, NONE of that was in Transformers mythology before.

lulz.

And win.

[Prime Riblet]

Everything about these Michael Bay movies is headache-inducing. I hope they reboot the franchise with someone more loyal to the mythology at the helm...

Yeah, because clearly something's not following the mythology when the Autobots are led by Optimus Prime, the Decepticons are led by Megatron, Optimus Prime is prone to dying, the most powerful thing in the Universe is the Matrix of Leadership, the forefathers of the Transformers are the Primes, Starscream's traitor prone, Ironhide's trigger happy, Bumblebee's the kid-favourite character, and Ratchet's a medic. Yeah, NONE of that was in Transformers mythology before.

lulz.

And win.

Very much agreed.

[G1 Smoketreader]

Everything about these Michael Bay movies is headache-inducing. I hope they reboot the franchise with someone more loyal to the mythology at the helm...

Said so perfectly:Universally representative yet non combatative.
I hope someone from Hasbro comes across those exact words.

[5150 Cruiser]

Everything about these Michael Bay movies is headache-inducing. I hope they reboot the franchise with someone more loyal to the mythology at the helm...

Said so perfectly:Universally representative yet non combatative.
I hope someone from Hasbro comes across those exact words.

You do realise that Hasbro has aproved of everything every step of the way? So someone up there believes there following "mythos'' just fine.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Everything about these Michael Bay movies is headache-inducing. I hope they reboot the franchise with someone more loyal to the mythology at the helm...

Yeah, because clearly something's not following the mythology when the Autobots are led by Optimus Prime, the Decepticons are led by Megatron, Optimus Prime is prone to dying, the most powerful thing in the Universe is the Matrix of Leadership, the forefathers of the Transformers are the Primes, Starscream's traitor prone, Ironhide's trigger happy, Bumblebee's the kid-favourite character, and Ratchet's a medic. Yeah, NONE of that was in Transformers mythology before.

You sir, have won one internet! Please use wisely.

[G1 Smoketreader]

Everything about these Michael Bay movies is headache-inducing. I hope they reboot the franchise with someone more loyal to the mythology at the helm...

Said so perfectly:Universally representative yet non combatative.
I hope someone from Hasbro comes across those exact words.

You do realise that Hasbro has aproved of everything every step of the way? So someone up there believes there following "mythos'' just fine.

On Hasbros' approval:
Yes, I realise but No, I don't see decisive decision making, I see lazy textbook formula referencing: They approve, but it doesn't mean there isn't rash action or miscalculated foresight all throughout...like fielding two sets of Constructicons in the films but deciding not to flood the market with construction vehicles, or incorporating Skidz & Mudflap but not even bothering to send Mudflap to Europe. (No Mudflap to a whole continent? Isn't that questionable sales strategy? He's part of a set of two! As is Suns with Sideswipe). Someone 'Up there' hires people with the (papers that say they have the) training to make the decisions, and tells them "make more money than last year"...I suspect those paper holders are using what the textbook says about the product without looking at what the product says about itself.

On approving Bay:
I remember hearing it, but I can't remember where: I think in the commentary for the first DVD, Michael Bay states Hasbro is/was waiting for him to give them details on which vehicles he had decided to use.They hired him so they don't have to decide.

I know fans are (sometimes) at each others throats over which parts of the movieverse is the bit we should hate, (and I agree many aspects of the films will end up of great benefit to future lines) but seeing so many people disown swathes of a single continuity, when a single continuity means pretty much diddly in a multi continuity storyboard...if I see it and cringe now, how would I feel if I was the one putting it out there?

I was talking about it the other day with some friends: Fans (of anything) wait a long time for a breakthrough (in this case,films). They see shouldn't-be'fans- (like someones' mum, for instance, or the lady from the Kwik-E-Mart or whoever-you get the idea) walk out saying "I really liked it-I think Transformers are great. I can see now why you've liked them so much all these years". Where the original fan has waited 25 years to say "Thank you, I'm glad you feel that way, too!", they instead say "Those aren't (the) Transformers (I was presenting to you)."
Isn't that unfortunate?

"Reboot the franchise with someone loyal at the helm" doesn't just encompass Hollywood, but Hasbro, Takara and Seibertron as well. That's why I say 'Universally representative'. Hasbro are just the ones in charge right now.It was refreshing to see a statement put so well that doesn't attack Michael Bay. (It states something about his work,yes, but doesn't slander him, which is a sign of good health in the fanbase *LOL*).

[G1 Smoketreader]

Everything about these Michael Bay movies is headache-inducing. I hope they reboot the franchise with someone more loyal to the mythology at the helm...

Yeah, because clearly something's not following the mythology when the Autobots are led by Optimus Prime, the Decepticons are led by Megatron, Optimus Prime is prone to dying, the most powerful thing in the Universe is the Matrix of Leadership, the forefathers of the Transformers are the Primes, Starscream's traitor prone, Ironhide's trigger happy, Bumblebee's the kid-favourite character, and Ratchet's a medic. Yeah, NONE of that was in Transformers mythology before.

He says MORE loyal...not cliche.

[Burn]

What never ceases to amaze me about some people and their belief that Bay hasn't been "loyal" and that he's done a terrible job is they truly believe that their opinion is ...
A)- Shared by ALL fans
B)- The opinion that matters
C)- Completely and utterly ignore the fact that the movie appealed to a vast majority of people far larger than the TF fanbase. How else would it have made so much money?

Summing up ... TF fanbase is small compared to the greater majority which based on ticket sales approve of Michael Bay and what he's done.

[Autobot032]

*sighs*

We're gonna do this? Alright then.

On Hasbros' approval:
Yes, I realise but No, I don't see decisive decision making, I see lazy textbook formula referencing: They approve, but it doesn't mean there isn't rash action or miscalculated foresight all throughout...like fielding two sets of Constructicons in the films but deciding not to flood the market with construction vehicles, or incorporating Skidz & Mudflap but not even bothering to send Mudflap to Europe. (No Mudflap to a whole continent? Isn't that questionable sales strategy? He's part of a set of two! As is Suns with Sideswipe). Someone 'Up there' hires people with the (papers that say they have the) training to make the decisions, and tells them "make more money than last year"...I suspect those paper holders are using what the textbook says about the product without looking at what the product says about itself.

We're not talking about the toys. We're talking about the movie and Bay. Hasbro had say so and worked with both Bay and Paramount all the way. This has nothing to do with toys. Nothing at all. This is just your segue to complain about distribution. It's not needed here in this thread and it's been covered a million times. Please drop it and stick with the conversation at hand.

On approving Bay:
I remember hearing it, but I can't remember where: I think in the commentary for the first DVD, Michael Bay states Hasbro is/was waiting for him to give them details on which vehicles he had decided to use.They hired him so they don't have to decide.

...and your point is? There's nothing out of the ordinary about this. Hasbro worked with him through all of it. He had to pick some vehicles and finalize which ones he was going with before Hasbro started producing vehicles and figures. Otherwise they'd have been making a shot in the dark, and the toys would've looked nothing like the movie characters.

Your point here, is invalid. (At least, I think you were trying to make a point.)

I know fans are (sometimes) at each others throats over which parts of the movieverse is the bit we should hate, (and I agree many aspects of the films will end up of great benefit to future lines) but seeing so many people disown swathes of a single continuity, when a single continuity means pretty much diddly in a multi continuity storyboard...if I see it and cringe now, how would I feel if I was the one putting it out there?

I'm...really not sure where you're going with this. No seriously, I'm not being funny, I'm literally confused. I don't know if it's a language barrier thing or what, but I'm completely lost here. So...huh?

I was talking about it the other day with some friends: Fans (of anything) wait a long time for a breakthrough (in this case,films). They see shouldn't-be'fans- (like someones' mum, for instance, or the lady from the Kwik-E-Mart or whoever-you get the idea) walk out saying "I really liked it-I think Transformers are great. I can see now why you've liked them so much all these years". Where the original fan has waited 25 years to say "Thank you, I'm glad you feel that way, too!", they instead say "Those aren't (the) Transformers (I was presenting to you)."
Isn't that unfortunate?

But those people complaining and saying "Those aren't the TransFormers I know and love" (which is basically what you were trying to convey here) are being blinded by their own...well, I don't have a label for it. But the problem is they're not looking at what's right in front of them, they've got their heads shoved where the sun don't shine. As it's been stated here, the TransFormers in the Bay movies do fit the criteria of past TF stories. They might have a different coat of paint, or a different name, but the core pieces are still there. Just like every reiteration that's come before the Bayverse, the TF shows and toylines have strictly adhered to the core pieces. The story, locations, and adventures changed, but the important parts were there.

And there here in the Bayverse too. There are fans who CAN see it. There are also fans who aren't WILLING to see it. They're choosing not to see it. Whether it's that they're just bullheaded, argumentative, looking for a reason to complain/fight/troll/whatever, they're just choosing to see what they want to see and they're making a spectacle of themselves for no good reason.

And it's ridiculous. There's a difference between seeing the movie, saying you don't like it (which is reasonable, that's fine), and "OH IT'S NOT MY TRANSFORMERS! MY TRANSFORMERS WERE..." and then they throw out a laundry list of things their TFs had that the Bayverse has. It makes their argument just incredibly silly.

They need to come up with reasonable and sensible reasons why they don't like the movies, and then we'll talk. This coming to us, getting in our faces and telling us we're wrong and we're dumb (which they pretty much do), ain't gonna work.

"Reboot the franchise with someone loyal at the helm" doesn't just encompass Hollywood, but Hasbro, Takara and Seibertron as well. That's why I say 'Universally representative'. Hasbro are just the ones in charge right now.It was refreshing to see a statement put so well that doesn't attack Michael Bay. (It states something about his work,yes, but doesn't slander him, which is a sign of good health in the fanbase *LOL*).

Bay HAS been loyal. He's had death threats, his apartment broken into, his laptop stolen, he had to postpone other projects and his long needed vacation to make this all work. If that's not loyalty, I don't know what is. Yes, somewhat it's loyalty to a paycheck, but plenty of other directors would walk away after everything he's been through. He wanted to see this through to the end and he has. His ideas might not always fit with the fans, but that doesn't make him disloyal.

Let's say we get a fanwanker of a director at the helm for the next movies (and there will be more, Hasbro's already said so.), they'll crash and burn at the theater because they'll cater to us, and leave everyone else out. That's not fair. We weren't left out in the cold this time (though many say we are...and we aren't...), so why should everyone else get kicked to the curb?

And the movie will try and please the critics and it'll fail. I'm honestly surprised the critics liked the first film (I'm still reeling from that one.) but if you try and please them, you'll alienate us.

Hasbro has done nothing wrong in approving any of this.
Bay has been loyal.
And the fans should be more willing to meet them halfway. (I didn't say bend over and take it, I said meet them halfway.)

If anyone's being unreasonable, it's the fans.

[G1 Smoketreader]

*sighs*

We're gonna do this? Alright then.

Cool.

On Hasbros' approval:
Yes, I realise but No, I don't see decisive decision making, I see lazy textbook formula referencing: They approve, but it doesn't mean there isn't rash action or miscalculated foresight all throughout...like fielding two sets of Constructicons in the films but deciding not to flood the market with construction vehicles, or incorporating Skidz & Mudflap but not even bothering to send Mudflap to Europe. (No Mudflap to a whole continent? Isn't that questionable sales strategy? He's part of a set of two! As is Suns with Sideswipe). Someone 'Up there' hires people with the (papers that say they have the) training to make the decisions, and tells them "make more money than last year"...I suspect those paper holders are using what the textbook says about the product without looking at what the product says about itself.

We're not talking about the toys. We're talking about the movie and Bay.
Hasbro had say so and worked with both Bay and Paramount all the way. This has nothing to do with toys. Nothing at all. This is just your segue to complain about distribution.

Actually, I was complaining about competence.I didn't say Hasbro had no say-so at all and the movie was made to sell toys, no matter what you say.And I can buy what I want from Japan and the UK.


It's not needed here in this thread and it's been covered a million times. Please drop it and stick with the conversation at hand.

That's fair.You're right.Agreed.

On approving Bay:
I remember hearing it, but I can't remember where: I think in the commentary for the first DVD, Michael Bay states Hasbro is/was waiting for him to give them details on which vehicles he had decided to use.They hired him so they don't have to decide.

...and your point is? There's nothing out of the ordinary about this. Hasbro worked with him through all of it. He had to pick some vehicles and finalize which ones he was going with before Hasbro started producing vehicles and figures. Otherwise they'd have been making a shot in the dark, and the toys would've looked nothing like the movie characters.

Your point here, is invalid. (At least, I think you were trying to make a point.)

Bay chose. Hasbro complied. My point is valid and you know it. (The jibe in the brackets is unnecessary and would give you no leverage if I started throwing jibes at you too).

I know fans are (sometimes) at each others throats over which parts of the movieverse is the bit we should hate, (and I agree many aspects of the films will end up of great benefit to future lines) but seeing so many people disown swathes of a single continuity, when a single continuity means pretty much diddly in a multi continuity storyboard...if I see it and cringe now, how would I feel if I was the one putting it out there?

I'm...really not sure where you're going with this. No seriously, I'm not being funny, I'm literally confused. I don't know if it's a language barrier thing or what, but I'm completely lost here. So...huh?

Understood:I'm saying I find the volume of complaints staggering. I thought people would get used to it by now. People are continuing to disown the movies even tho they've had so long to get used to them and incorporate them into the greater TF picture in their own way and in their own time. It seems strange to me, and makes me treat the problem like a serious issue. It makes me wonder how the lead decision makers feel.

I was talking about it the other day with some friends: Fans (of anything) wait a long time for a breakthrough (in this case,films). They see shouldn't-be'fans- (like someones' mum, for instance, or the lady from the Kwik-E-Mart or whoever-you get the idea) walk out saying "I really liked it-I think Transformers are great. I can see now why you've liked them so much all these years". Where the original fan has waited 25 years to say "Thank you, I'm glad you feel that way, too!", they instead say "Those aren't (the) Transformers (I was presenting to you)."
Isn't that unfortunate?

But those people complaining and saying "Those aren't the TransFormers I know and love" (which is basically what you were trying to convey here)

Oh,they're the Transformers I know and love, alright,in the example I give it's not what "I" was presenting to "you" about what there is to know and love about Transformers.

are being blinded by their own...well, I don't have a label for it.

preconditioning?

In some nations, people tie rags together to make a soccer ball, but view scientifically engineered soccer balls as detrimental to the true talent of a player; in others, Maradonna is a Demigod for new and inventive application of drug use.In others, the team isn't competition grade until there is no drug use and the most elite specialist equipment arrives.Each point of view is legitimate.That was the original conversation.Each TF complaint (and compliment) is legitimate as well.We don't have to like it but we shouldn't we try to tolerate it.People open up here because they feel they can,and the fact they're dissatisfied with a product doesn't automatically make them ignorant.Consumer feedback relies on complaints as well as compliments.

But the problem is they're not looking at what's right in front of them, they've got their heads shoved where the sun don't shine. As it's been stated here, the TransFormers in the Bay movies do fit the criteria of past TF stories. They might have a different coat of paint, or a different name, but the core pieces are still there. Just like every reiteration that's come before the Bayverse, the TF shows and toylines have strictly adhered to the core pieces. The story, locations, and adventures changed, but the important parts were there.

Yes, I agree with all of this, but there was more than the core:Elements which made a greater whole.The core is the bit the rest is anchored upon during expansion.The films are the matrix of each story core.People will wait to see things they want to see and waiting can be an agonizing process.Demanding that they shutup and/or telling them their opinion isn't worth the effort is like hoarding rather than sharing the fandom.It is elitism and it is unfair.Most will change their opinion once they're convinced.The rest have the intellectual right to remain unconvinced because they have the intellectual capability to remain unconvinced.Hating them isn't a solution.Cracking down on them isn't a way to change their minds about anything except their attackers.

And there here in the Bayverse too. There are fans who CAN see it.

Yes, there are.

There are also fans who aren't WILLING to see it.

True.

They're choosing not to see it.

Or in certain cases are seing through things-let's be fair,now.

Whether it's that they're just bullheaded, argumentative, looking for a reason to complain/fight/troll/whatever, they're just choosing to see what they want to see and they're making a spectacle of themselves for no good reason.

I hear you loud and clear. Are they not sometimes trying to show what they see, and willing to fight for it up to a point? Because they feel strongly about it?

And it's ridiculous. There's a difference between seeing the movie, saying you don't like it (which is reasonable, that's fine),

agree 100%

and "OH IT'S NOT MY TRANSFORMERS! MY TRANSFORMERS WERE..." and then they throw out a laundry list of things their TFs had that the Bayverse has. It makes their argument just incredibly silly.

Sorry, can't agree with you there. In my opinion it's bigoted of one person to brush over anyones' attempt to highlight on a deeper facet of something both people appreciate anyway. Where it gets silly is the demands and the death threats.(Actually, that's worse than silly...)


They need to come up with reasonable and sensible reasons why they don't like the movies, and then we'll talk.

This coming to us, getting in our faces and telling us we're wrong and we're dumb (which they pretty much do), ain't gonna work.

No offence,but now I'm confused. By "coming to us",can you clarify? Do you mean me coming to you or complainers coming to fans or what exactly? "We're" wrong and dumb,why? Who's "we?" Who's "They"? Not dissing you here.I'm not sure I've seen posts like that...about complainers calling fans dumb.I have ,however, seen posts about fans calling complainers dumb,repeatedly...

"Reboot the franchise with someone loyal at the helm" doesn't just encompass Hollywood, but Hasbro, Takara and Seibertron as well. That's why I say 'Universally representative'. Hasbro are just the ones in charge right now.It was refreshing to see a statement put so well that doesn't attack Michael Bay. (It states something about his work,yes, but doesn't slander him, which is a sign of good health in the fanbase *LOL*).

Bay HAS been loyal. He's had death threats, his apartment broken into, his laptop stolen, he had to postpone other projects and his long needed vacation to make this all work. If that's not loyalty, I don't know what is.

Yes, somewhat it's loyalty to a paycheck,

but plenty of other directors would walk away after everything he's been through. He wanted to see this through to the end and he has. His ideas might not always fit with the fans, but that doesn't make him disloyal.

Waaaait: there's a difference between disloyal and more loyal to the mythology. BIG difference.

Let's say we get a fanwanker of a director at the helm for the next movies (and there will be more, Hasbro's already said so.)

Awesome! I didn't know that! (Thanks!)

, they'll crash and burn at the theater because they'll cater to us, and leave everyone else out. That's not fair.

Definitely true but also (hopefully) unlikely to happen.Anything written well and scrutinized properly should have small chances of going awry, regardless of subject.

We weren't left out in the cold this time (though many say we are...and we aren't...), so why should everyone else get kicked to the curb?

Many of the older series were really, REALLY good stories that captured the attention of a large proportion of the kids of their generation and made them fans. Had these stories been retold frame for frame as films (repeat: I LIKE and appreciate the films-I insist they will benefit future TF lines) I'm pretty confident they would have had the same positive impact on non fans, if not better. I am not readily convinced folks will be kicked out to the curb, but will think more carefully on what you said later on.

And the movie will try and please the critics and it'll fail. I'm honestly surprised the critics liked the first film (I'm still reeling from that one.)

I'm starting to understand the differences we have here. I REALLY liked the first film.Apart from Frenzy's cartoon walk I enjoyed pretty much all of it and thought it was very well put together.Jazz's death needed thinking time but I still liked it.I feel the writing was powerful enough to not need to be afraid of the critics at all.

but if you try and please them, you'll alienate us.

I have no differing opinion. I agree here too.The only constructive offering I can think of is to suggest a concious movement by the whole fanbase to meet each eventuality halfway, as I've said elsewhere and you say below.

Hasbro has done nothing wrong in approving any of this.

Agreed, every decision they made appeared to be the right one at the time,from the point of view of the objectives and interests of Hasbro as a corporation.

Bay has been loyal.

.....what you are saying here is completely valid, and I would be a jerk to say otherwise, but fans are loyal too, Autobot032. All I can say is allow people their reservations.Their opinions will change when they are convinced it's time to do so.Please acknowledge that I am not trying to shoot you down.

And the fans should be more willing to meet them halfway. (I didn't say bend over and take it, I said meet them halfway.)

Understood and agreed.I've said the same elsewhere on this board more than once, for the record.

If anyone's being unreasonable, it's the fans.

Nope.No way!We meet halfway on that,too.There's no way in the world fans should shoulder all the responsibility.I'm sorry, 'cuz I've seen plenty of your posts and I know you're a good guy who enters events from a good angle and predisposition,but I will never budge on that.I would have liked my last comment to have been in agreement with yours,but no,at least this time...

[TF3source]

[cybercat]

this is the stupidest thing I ever heard if Starscream turns into anybody it should be G1 Starscream

*facepalms*

Dude, it's not real. It's a lie. The rumor is completely false. Starscream doesn't turn into Elita-1. Starscream DIES in the next movie.

DIES

I strongly suspect you are right. And it will be a pathetic and humiliating death. And I will cry. And become one of THOSE transfans who tries to pretend part of canon doesn't really exist.

HK, and then I shall write fanfic.