The Energon Pub

[skywarp-2]

Now, what if you're scalping for fairly altruistic reasons? For example, I used to offer to pick things up for members of another board at cost (plus shipping). However, after enough people complained about the high shipping estimates (and shipping from Japan anywhere using EMS is never cheap) I stopped that offer. However, I still had a bunch of stuff. Normally, I'd put a low BIN on it or just offer it to other collectors, but, as "luck" would have it, a friend of mine was having a hard time with some credit card bills. So I ebayed the lot of it without the usual low BINs. This particular set of Ebay items included a couple of Brave Maximi, a boxed G1 Fort Max, a boxed Star Saber, and a ton of other high-end collectables that the original buyers did not want to pay for. Total profit on all of that was around 1,500 USD. I gave every cent of that to my friend who now has one less credit card bill to deal with. You can't possibly make the argument that I didn't scalp these figures. On some of them, I made 10 times what I'd paid. But I really don't see what I did there as being wrong.

actually, in that situation those toys were either out of production or older then the 08 Bumblebee, so in that case, I don't consider that scalping so much as demand for a highly sought after item.. the 08 Bumbelbee is the example I'm using, because it exemplifies the difference, scalping a toy that was recently released in stores, which end up disappearing from those stores within the first couple of months.. now that is scalping...

what you did was to offer up figures that weren't currently on shelves, and even if you didn't offer them at a BIN rate, those auctions are acceptable, just as comic auctions for items that were released in the 60s, and 70s are...it's different when that item is on the shelves briefly, and you know stock has arrived but everytime you go, it's out because of local scalpers..

[skywarp-2]

Note: the section on the place of scalpers on the supply/demand curves was very hastily constructed. The basic premise should be economically sound, although the wording may be fuzzy. The gist of it is that scalpers inhabit some hazy place on both curves, throwing both curves of through this disinformation, and leading to an inefficient market.

actually I rather enjoyed your post and found your reasoning dead on..so to speak.. my "Scalper" premise is built around recently released items and those in store items...and the aftermarket prices built on the missing stock for consumers due to buyouts by scalpers...

but, pretty much you coverd most of what i think is a very sound principle.. and not only that but the Professor, who I enjoy conversing with, is bringing out the What if's and Grey areas..with very cool examples... I enjoy an intelligent debate and discussion such as this..

that's what is so great about this forum..

[Lapse Of Reason]

I see nothing wrong with buying toys and reselling them.

That said, when all is said and done, being a full time eBayer selling 08 Bumblebees or whatever else is hot is a lot of work for a very low payoff in the big scheme of things. Sure, a 200% profit is nice - but in order to make a living you have to hunt down, list, sell, and ship a lot of those figures. It just is not worth the effort. No job security. No benefits. No retirement. Just a sad person trying to scrape by.

Now, if I walk into a store and see a bunch of things I could resell for twice as much - you bet I will buy them all and resell them. Not taking advantage of an opportunity like that does not make sense. I would not go out of my way, however, to rush into a toy aisle everyday the moment the store opens. Did the last scalper you see in person look like a rich man (or woman), or was it kind of a sad sight to see some middle-aged person with a cart full of the same toy?

I pity the full-time scalper becuase they are not livng large by any means. The part-time scalper is just finding a way to make a few quick extra bucks - usually to balance out their own purchases. Nothing wrong about it whatsoever.

[skywarp-2]

I see nothing wrong with buying toys and reselling them.

That said, when all is said and done, being a full time eBayer selling 08 Bumblebees or whatever else is hot is a lot of work for a very low payoff in the big scheme of things. Sure, a 200% profit is nice - but in order to make a living you have to hunt down, list, sell, and ship a lot of those figures. It just is not worth the effort. No job security. No benefits. No retirement. Just a sad person trying to scrape by.

Now, if I walk into a store and see a bunch of things I could resell for twice as much - you bet I will buy them all and resell them. Not taking advantage of an opportunity like that does not make sense. I would not go out of my way, however, to rush into a toy aisle everyday the moment the store opens. Did the last scalper you see in person look like a rich man (or woman), or was it kind of a sad sight to see some middle-aged person with a cart full of the same toy?

I pity the full-time scalper becuase they are not livng large by any means. The part-time scalper is just finding a way to make a few quick extra bucks - usually to balance out their own purchases. Nothing wrong about it whatsoever.

that's fine and fair, but I don't see a scalper's life as that sad and depressing and none profitable, as if that were the case, then most scalpers would be like you, why bother.. there is considerable cash to be made in that type of business. especially if your not just scalping one property..and on top of it, there are lots of people who scalp as a 2nd job to supplement their first income.. so really there are alot of reasons, as to why they feel it's a great thing to do.. besides it's not that hard, buy alot of one particular toy, then snap a couple shots on the digicam..upload, slap item in box ready for shipping.. and wolla!! instant profit.. the shipping is paid for by the buyer, your paypal account is directly linked to your bank account funds, or you can divert some to a seperate account and use it for shipping only, or use onliune software to print labels with ease just from your one computer.. print, stick on the box, take to the post office or UPS office and bang easy transaction..or pay a small percentage and an eBay consignment center does all that for you!!

I just don't think it's right.. a store or online retailer is one thing, or an eBay seller with their own store is cool.. but with MP U.S. Starscreams just being released naionwide and most of them already on eBay at double the price, and none here so far in my area, it almost makes me cringe as to when i may actually see one and not get screwed in the process as almost most of us did with 08 Bumblebee..

Am I rehashing an arguement.. yep sure am.. but here's the difference, I'm not trying to piss people off just get an idea of what most people consider scalping.. not whether scalping is bad or not.. and for some reason we keep leading back to that discussion.. I just want to know what you think is "scalping?" And more to the point what we as a fandom can do to help stave off those people from knowingly purchasing tons of a figure, with a 300% mark up and screwing the lot of us who can't find a single one??

[Bumblethumper]

Even the premise that it is good that scalpers buy up stock quickly is, in some ways, flawed. We saw how scalpers didn't buy up every figure; they only purchase the ones in high demand to resell at higher prices. Thus, the stock left on the shelves are peg-warmers. If, for example, '08 Bumblebee consisted of 1/5 of the retailer's stock of deluxe-sized Transformers, it isn't likely that they will reorder when 80% of their original stock is still on the shelves.

For the kid, the next-best option may be another toy entirely.

Here is another case where shortages can increase the amount of product Hasbro is able to sell. The kid that goes out looking for deluxe Bumblebee, may return disappointed, but not empty handed, with a deluxe Swindle instead. He's still going to want to eventually get Bumblebee. Between the various fruitless trips I made this summer, I returned with many a figure not originally on my list.

But it's not a perfect system. As you point out, with the nature of the case assortment system, it is not as simple to replace the most in-demand figures as soon as they sell out. That may be an area where Hasbro need to do some fine tuning. As it is, the popular figures reappear in future case assortments, so stores can get in new assortments knowing some will sell quickly, and what doesn't will at least add variety.

It's undeniable that scalpers distort the demand. I haven't had to resort to buying from scalpers so far. I've had to wait more than I would've liked, - but I've found that with patience, I've been able to get most of what I wanted.

I apologize for the length of this post, but I hope it will be helpful in terms of its economic content.

hey, - you're not the worst offender!

[Gauntlet101010]

The things that really swayed me was the story of one guy buying a skid of Starscreams all for himself. I don't care if he wants to make money or what, that's just greed right there. Easy money? Free market economy? Capitalism? Sure, but I don't have to like it.

As a collector who just buys the one toy he wants, I hate not seeing what I want on the shelves. And, were I a child, I would STILL dislike not seeing what I want on the shelves. And if there's a scalper who just bought all the product to sell on ebay who'se responsible for that to make a quick buck, then sure it's his choice ... but I don't have to like it either.

Now I rely buy scalped products myself. Maybe there's a shortage of scalpers in my area, but if I comb the stores enough I can usually find what I'm looking for. I haven't had to resort to ebay in looking for things that're available at retail unless I passed them up before for some reason, or if they just plumb didn't arrive where I am. But I really dislike the thought of not being able to find what I want because some person bought 30 all for himself. Yeah, that's a selfish point, but so's buying 30 of some product all for yourself.

[Bumblethumper]

Now, if I walk into a store and see a bunch of things I could resell for twice as much - you bet I will buy them all and resell them. Not taking advantage of an opportunity like that does not make sense.

You know I was pretty much okay with scalping, until you put it like that. This business of buying 'them all' ...buying a whole stock of items, - it's like at least give the rest of us a sporting chance.

You know where else you could make a little extra cash? Buying up all the canned food and bottled water when there's hurricane shortages or something.

Okay it's not quite the same thing, no one ever starved from a lack of transformers, but there's a certain similarity there. Don't get me wrong. You're not breaking any law or anything, but do you have to be so brazen about it?

[Lapse Of Reason]

The things that really swayed me was the story of one guy buying a skid of Starscreams all for himself. I don't care if he wants to make money or what, that's just greed right there. Easy money? Free market economy? Capitalism? Sure, but I don't have to like it.

As a collector who just buys the one toy he wants, I hate not seeing what I want on the shelves. And, were I a child, I would STILL dislike not seeing what I want on the shelves. And if there's a scalper who just bought all the product to sell on ebay who'se responsible for that to make a quick buck, then sure it's his choice ... but I don't have to like it either.

Now I rely buy scalped products myself. Maybe there's a shortage of scalpers in my area, but if I comb the stores enough I can usually find what I'm looking for. I haven't had to resort to ebay in looking for things that're available at retail unless I passed them up before for some reason, or if they just plumb didn't arrive where I am. But I really dislike the thought of not being able to find what I want because some person bought 30 all for himself. Yeah, that's a selfish point, but so's buying 30 of some product all for yourself.

Yes, buying that many is greed at its worst. I also despise not finding something because somebody else got there first (whether it was a scalper, poor distribution, or a couple of other collectors - who knows).

I recently had to buy Best Buy Ratchet on ebay because they were gone at retail (although I did score one of two Megatrons). I added Hasbro MP Starscream too, since my Walmarts often do not carry the exclusives.

Paying more or having to wait longer sucks, but such is life. Oh well. No amount of message board typing will make it easier for me to buy toys so I'll do what we all must do - live with it.

[Gauntlet101010]

Paying more or having to wait longer sucks, but such is life. Oh well. No amount of message board typing will make it easier for me to buy toys so I'll do what we all must do - live with it.

Well, that's how it goes, right? I usually go by a "if I don't want it now (while it's in stock), I don't want it" policy on what I see with rare exceptions (Energon Grimmy being one, a must for my Grimlock collection).

In fairness tho it does make it slightly easier. I mean we have things like the sightings thread and we can share barcodes and such. Used correctly those things help. I would guess (as I resort to the oldschool store search myself).

Edit: Oh, and you'll never get a CLEAR 100% black and white definition of what constitutes scalping, from that point mentioned earlier. Not in a fandom this large. Don't even bother asking for one.

[LigerJohn]

I like refering to this when it comes to scalping.

http://www.toymania.com/resources/begin ... calp.shtml

nuff said

[Xgamer]

I wanted to start this thread to give us a chance to openly discuss the "Scalping" issue and determine as a fandom the best way to establish an industry standard that we all can agree on. now, i'm not up for flame wars and potential bashings here.. so please be respectful of others in this thread.. I don't want to see this one get locked for any reason..

There have been many threads like this in the past. This one will probably end the same-locked. I can't help but wonder if you are just stirring the Hornet's nest for entertainment. Any true collector would be looking for TFs, not complaing about scalpers.

Any true collectors huh?? So now not only are you insulting me as a true collector, but your also insinuating that I'm starting crap by this post, when clearly i'm trying to establish a concensus as I referenced in my first post.. your completely wrong, and in my opinion, are acting an ass right off the bat in your response..

Like I said.... if the shoe fits. You've proved my point. I never called you an ass, but you feel defensive...you should "read better." The last thread like this ended locked was my point. I wasn't being insulting, but if you take it as such feel free.

[Problem is- in the "real" world, there is no true wrong or right. Life isn't in black and white.

In the "real world"... here is another perfect example of your intentions to seem smart and superior in your response to this diuscussion.. in the real world, this is a fandom about transformers, a toy, cartoon and comic property.. the real world isn't a part of most of the stuff here.. if you want real world turn on MTV!!!

Im not saying I'm superior but at least I can spell "discussion". Buying is part of the real world, so it does matter, unless you pay with monopoly money. That sorta makes sense in your case though. As for quoting the other stuff... not worth it.

[5kywarp]

ok I've finally read all this thread now can anyone tell me Which Transformer Toy resells for the most money? Which Transformer is the hottest buy?

[Bonger]

Well, I might as well weigh in as I have on all the other scalper topics in the past, and before the inevitable lock if people stay true to form.

First off, I must agree with Xgamer and Professor Smooth on a couple of points.

The world is not black and white and neither is this issue. Scalpers do provide a service as is evidenced by the fact that they have customers. Also, I really do not think we should be judging what someone daoes for money as we do not know them personaly or their situation. For example, if I need to go without a concept BB so some unemployed dude can afford some diapers..... I am not saying this is always the case, but you never know.

Secondly, noone forces anyopne to buy from a scalper, and with the use of a little patience, any US release can be found at retail, atleast in my experience.

Thirdly, Prof. Smooth, buying bargain collectibles for resale from an anime store does not count as scalping in my book. I restrict that term for the types who buy new items for resale, as with the infamous concept BB.

Lastly, dude, this is not a good discussion topic for this board as has been evidenced in the past. Noone on either side of the issue will change their minds and this will eventually turn personal, if it hasn't already.

However, the one thing I do have an issue with is the case of the person in a recent thread who claimed that 80% of his movie collection was paid for by selling concept BBs on ebay. That in itself, I have no issue with. If he is comfortable with that, then it is his business. However, what annoys me to no end is when they turn around and call it being shrewd and making use of market forces and adamantly insist they are no scalping.

Scalping, I have no issue with, it is part of the game, and that's that.

However, if you partake on any level, call it what it is.

[Leonardo]

I think Bonger makes good sense. I also agree with some of what Professor Smooth has to say.

[Bonger]

I think Bonger makes good sense. I also agree with some of what Professor Smooth has to say.

[Malikon]

ok I've finally read all this thread now can anyone tell me Which Transformer Toy resells for the most money? Which Transformer is the hottest buy?

DreadWing, definitely. All the scalpers should scoop him up if they're lucky enough, (or should I say blessed enough?) to find one.

[Dreamchylde]

As I read through the whole thread, I was reminded of a similar and much darker form of scalping. And it happened before Transformers hit America (Yes, this does make me that old).

If anyone can remember way back in 1982 when the Cabbage Patch Doll craze hit with people stampeding into stores the moment they opened and the fist fights mothers (with kids in tow) would get into for the stupid doll... And then the next day's want ad's would fill up with pages of people scalping the damned dolls for 500$USD (it's 1982, remember)

Scalping is, unfortunately, a way of life. Doesn't mean I like it or condone it, but if I see the jackass with the cart full of the same figure get into his car...meh, sometimes I hate being an adult with that stupid conscious thing.

[Cyber Bishop]

We had problems with a thread like this before and there was NO reason to create another one.


*EDIT*

Since someone took "offense" to my above statement let me clarify.
We had a thread about scalpers before
It ended up being a HUGE disagreement
People were flaming and arguing left and right
It was locked down due to the lack of civility
I got PM complaints about this thread
I locked it down to avoid any possible future trouble

Simple as that.

Again..
Sure, this one may not have reached the level of intensity as the other one, HOWEVER I am not going to give it a chance to even come anywhere close to that and that is why I locked this thread down.