The Energon Pub

by **Bonger** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:40 am

I was reading through all the TF blogs I visit and ran across this one.

I enjoyed the read and the guy made some good points directed towards people who have been anti Hasbro.

Edited to sound more PC. ;-)

http://fairplaythings.livejournal.com/

by **Rijie** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:23 am

Interesting read, the picture comparisons are very nice. I like how he addresses the "Seeker-Exclusive Controversy" without becoming part of it.

News Credits: 1 · by **Redimus** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:44 am

Im not very impressed by this at all.

Firstly has anybody actulyl complained about the paint aps differences? I dont know of anybody who's gone 'oh noes! i needs more starscreamz nowz!!!1111'. We all know that Takara's paint jobs are better and more 'show accurate', they have been ever since I started collecting tfs. We also all knew that there was always a chance Takara *would* do these, and I dont think anybody expected for a minute that they wouldnt make em more G1 accurate. So that particular issue is a none issue, and was only really included to make him sound less elietist when it came to te real issue.

Now the real issue, Im sorry, but bull ****, we all knew that there was a very good chance Hasbro would continue the classics in some way, we all knew that the fact they had made Ramjet ment they were thinking of making the other coneheads, and we all knew hasbro knew we really wanted the full set of seekers.

Add to that that it is not a reasonable price ot pay for some toys at all. I took a look at the price I'd have to pay to get a set sent to the UK and it was astronomical (i think it was something in the regon of £200-£300, for a set that in the store would cost a combined price of £60 (and I only wanted the seekers, I had no interest in Bugbite or Dreadwing). Price was so much I'd have been better off paying for the plane tickets to america and going to the convention myself. So dont give me that 'you have to pay to play' bull ****.

Facts are, it was a terrible business decission by Hasbro, and I honestly do not know why Hasbro agreed to it.

by **Bonger** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:23 am

Redimus, I think those comments were meant more for people within the US. I know where you're coming from on the costs of importing exclusives as I have to deal with that issue with the toys from the conventions in Asia and what not. Not only is the price inflated, but shipping adds a large chunk on. A lot of those items go on my "I'll buy them next year" list.

That kinda goes with the convention and toy collecting territory though.

Ofcourse I am posting this assuming that your sentiments would have been a little different if you were a US resident and could have attended or received that set for the original 270 tag.

News Credits: 1 · by **Redimus** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:35 am

I doubt i'd care if I was able to go there and get them. Ive never cared about 'rarity' or 'exclusivness'. I spent £75 (most ive spent on any tf) on a reissue Megatron about 2 years back. When Encore came out I didnt care, yes I could have got Megs for a LOT less if I had waited, but I didnt know Encore would happen then. I still have him as one of the prides of my collection, I still think he's pure awesome, I dont give a flying rats ass he isnt worth as much anymore.

If those who do have the set are *THAT* petty that they dont want us to get these toys cuase they are 'exclusive' or 'rare', then I want nothing to do with them.

The only way my sentiments would be diferent would be cuase I'd have to do a 'yey complete set of seekers' dance every so often (a very strange and entertaining dance indeed).

by **Bonger** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:46 am

Redimus wrote:The only way my sentiments would be diferent would be cuase I'd have to do a 'yey complete set of seekers' dance every so often (a very strange and entertaining dance indeed).

LMAO, I know that dance. Luckily for me, Botcon was about a 90 minute drive from my home. I actually took Ramjet, SS and SW with me in the car. I went in with my GF, grabbed my set and ran out. I had her drive home so that I could put all 6 on the dashboard and do a 'yey complete set of seekers' dance.

Ofcourse, that dance might intesify to terrifying proportions when I add the anime accurate Takara SS and repaint my Hasbro one into Sunstorm. ;-)

News Credits: 1 · by **Redimus** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:56 am

Bonger wrote:Ofcourse, that dance might intesify to terrifying proportions when I add the anime accurate Takara SS and repaint my Hasbro one into Sunstorm.

OH THE HUMANITY!

News Credits: 4 · by **Bumblethumper** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:01 am

Redimus wrote:

If those who do have the set are *THAT* petty that they dont want us to get these toys cuase they are 'exclusive' or 'rare', then I want nothing to do with them.

That's the sense I got reading the post. It's a long tedious read about how a segment fans are a bunch of ungrateful cry-babies, who don't understand the realities, and it's tough luck, and they should just accept it(but nyeh, I got my exclusives, and they better stay exclusive, and I'm happy, and that's all that matters).

Personally, I don't have a horse in this race either way, since to me they're essentially repaints, and I couldn't care less. I never wanted them in the first place, and I certainly have no intention of buying them for the extravagant price they currently fetch.

News Credits: 9 · by **Sowndwave76** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:23 pm

I haven't read the blog and probably won't.
My 2 cents--

It's kind of a cool thing for those who go to the convention to get a little extra goodie that is a cool exclusive.

But to make the exclusive figures some of the main, or at least pretty well-known characters is STUPID.
It truly doesn't make sense to me that they would make ALL THREE of those seekers exclusives.
Let's face it; there'd be tons of people complaining if it would've just been one of those figures...
But 3!?!?!

Of course I'll deal with it; this isn't exactly sending me into depression, and I'm not bitter.
A little envious? Of course.
To me this was a situation that was made TOO exclusive.

Just out of curiousity, was the set really $270??

News Credits: 1 · by **ChrisR291** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:52 pm

I'm with you Redimus because I don't agree with this guy at all.

I don't care about special, limited edition toys at all. I'd prefer it if everyone had a chance to buy the figures for a cheap price. I thought that we were a community of fans?

I remember the days before reissues, when I first found ebay, I spent like 200 bucks on a Prowl just because it had a ROOF attached and that was cheap. Many Collectors cried foul when Takara began to reissue the older figures at such a cheap price (I sold my old Prowl and got a new one for 30 bucks) but I was fine with it. Give everyone a chance to reclaim that piece of their childhood that made them happy! Don't punish them by forcing them to pay WAY TO MUCH for something that should be less. I feel like that would weaken the fan base because your average person with an apartment/mortgage, car, insurance, gas, electric, and grocery bills couldn't go out and buy those figures. I wouldn't and I could if I felt the urge too.

News Credits: 7 · by **Geekee1** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:50 pm

Decent read. Overall I think he made some good points.

I don't care what people think about the exclusivity of the seekers. I would have liked a mass release as well, if for no other reason than discussions like this would go away.

What I can't stand is the endless complaining about the price. You aren't just paying for the toys. You're helping to pay for the entire convention. That includes the non-attendees. Fun-Pub is a for profit organization, so they need to cover the convention center, licenses, and other things that go into it. So yeah, the toys would cost $60 at retail, but you're paying for alot more in terms of a convention. And typically something that is produced in small numbers commands a higher price to begin with.

by **Ultra Prime** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:00 pm

Sowndwave76 wrote:Just out of curiousity, was the set really $270??

Yep! It was $270 for club members and $330 for non-members. Unfortunately I'm not a club member(though I hope to remedy that very soon) so the set cost me the $330. #-o

But I feel it was worth it just for the simple fact that Hasbro claims to have absolutely no intentions of ever releasing them for mass retail. Assuming Hasbro does not change their mind then getting the set was the only way I was going to be able to complete my Classics seekers. Kitbashing wasn't an option for me since I have no artistic talent and would most likely end up destroying the figure in the process.

News Credits: 10 · by **Lapse Of Reason** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:32 pm

A decent read. I appreciated the comparison pics of the Takara vs Hasbro pics the most.

As far as the rehash of the exclusives argument goes, all I will say is that I am happy with my Botcon set and wish everyone could own copies of the figures I enjoy. I don't regret the price because I got them for free when bought a boxed and loose set, then sold the loose set. The profit was enough to cover most, if not all of the cost of my own figures. I did have to pay airfare and hotel, but that was part of my summer vacation trip to the Northeast USA anyway.

News Credits: 9 · by **Sowndwave76** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:23 pm

ChrisR291 wrote:I'm with you Redimus because I don't agree with this guy at all.

I don't care about special, limited edition toys at all. I'd prefer it if everyone had a chance to buy the figures for a cheap price. I thought that we were a community of fans?

That's what I'm talking about... Greatest good for the greatest number.

And for everyone who has the set, I already know that that cost included other things related to the conference itself, AND that a small run means a higher initial cost.
BUT, how cool would it have been to be able to get those figures for reg. retail price, and had the exclusives something almost totally different???
With the renewed interest with TF in general, think about how many people right now today would've bought/would buy those IF they were mass released.

News Credits: 7 · by **shortround** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:31 pm

The guy makes some good arguments I have to say.

News Credits: 7 · by **Geekee1** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:06 pm

Sowndwave76 wrote:BUT, how cool would it have been to be able to get those figures for reg. retail price, and had the exclusives something almost totally different???
With the renewed interest with TF in general, think about how many people right now today would've bought/would buy those IF they were mass released.

I absolutely agree with you.

by **videriant** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:09 pm

I would have love to have had cheap set of seekers also. And I admit that I cracked and ended up purchasing them on ebay. But I just wanted to point out (for the people in the US) that I was loving Classics as soon as it came out and it took me forever to find a Starscream but the rest of the classics were shelfwarming for quite a long time. The poster makes a good point about people waiting for skywarp to go on sale.

Hasbro made a dumb move by selling the rights to the seekers but it's not any dumber then anything else they've been doing for quite some time. Really, it isn't.

And again, who's complaing about a seeker set at retail? I can't imagine it's the people who attended the convention AND manage to make all they're money back selling their second set. It's gotta be the people who paid through the arse for the set on ebay after the fact. Sounds like the same people who were waiting for skywarp to go on sale and then had to shell out +$30 for him.

This of course doesn't apply to people across the pond who should be used to getting screwed by now and we should be used to hearing them complain. =)

The only other people who got hosed are the ones that came late to the party being drawn in by the movie. Welcome back. Hasbro's gonna screw you. Get used to it. . .

What's my point? Do I have one? Oh yeah. What are the complainers hoping to accomplish? It's out of Hasbro's hands now. Maybe we can petition Sun to take a vote of all its members and just do a run of thundercracker and sell it for $20/$40. That keep the exclusivity of most of the set while allowing most people to complete the seeker trio.

News Credits: 1 · by **Redimus** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:28 pm

shortround wrote:The guy makes some good arguments I have to say.

Which guy?

Elaborate?

News Credits: 127 · by **Counterpunch** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:38 pm

I think what was said in the article about the Japanese versions being superior is crap. With the exception of Megatron and potentially Grimlock, I think the American ones look overall better and serve as a proper modern update.

Now, in regards to the seekers, again, one thing that never seems to get mentioned is that neither Armada, Energon, nor Cybertron provided an entire set of all six seekers. Why is everyone so certain that Classics would put all six seekers on the shelf?

News Credits: 10 · by **Lapse Of Reason** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:35 pm

Counterpunch wrote:I think what was said in the article about the Japanese versions being superior is crap. With the exception of Megatron and potentially Grimlock, I think the American ones look overall better and serve as a proper modern update.

Now, in regards to the seekers, again, one thing that never seems to get mentioned is that neither Armada, Energon, nor Cybertron provided an entire set of all six seekers. Why is everyone so certain that Classics would put all six seekers on the shelf?

My Megatron is worth replacing with the Takara release. Other than that, none of the other figures justify a repurchase (although I am tempted by Starscream since I could probably sell my loose one for more than retail). Otherwise I am happy with what I have.

I, too, can't help but wonder where and when Hasbro promised a full set of classic seekers. It seems to me thet they mass-released one regular seeker and one conehead seeker. Skywarp was an exclusive repaint too, just on a bigger scale. So that is what Hasbro decided to produce - one seeker, one conehead. The rest were all exclusives, three of which never would have seen the light of the factory floor had it not been for another company, FUN Publications, obtaining the rights and making the figures themselves.

News Credits: 9 · by **Sowndwave76** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:18 pm

My answer to limited seekers in other lines is simply this--

OTHER LINES.

Those characters are originally G1.
To me, other lines are obviously the place to throw out new character toys.

Then let's consider...
Before, during, and soon after the first wave of Classics,
was Hasbro truly thinking,
"Hmmmmm, there's a good chance this line will end right here with these figures"
????

Pshhh.

by **Lycantendencies** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:22 pm

Counterpunch wrote:Now, in regards to the seekers, again, one thing that never seems to get mentioned is that neither Armada, Energon, nor Cybertron provided an entire set of all six seekers. Why is everyone so certain that Classics would put all six seekers on the shelf?

Neither Armada, Energon, nor Cybertron were G1 coninuity based.

In G1, the seekers were a trio, the coneheads were too.

When we look at G1 based Robotmasters, reissues, MP Skywarp's box, the seekers are a trio.
It's just how HasTak usually treat them.

The coneheads are similar, with them always being a slight retool.
Once again, this is G1 continuity based, and the thee coneheads are all established characters.

This is Hasbro. They release retools and repaints all the time, sometimes without it even being a new character.
Then along comes a set where retools are not only accepted but expected, and usually delivered, and then change their entire policy.

Who would expect that?

Hasbro are intelligent people. They create Classics, based on G1 and aimed at people who already know the characters.
Many of them sit there with Starscream and spare oney complaining about not having Skywarp (sold solo) or Thundercracker whilst Starscream warmed shelves everywhere.

Similar story for Ramjet and the coneheads.

That's a stupid decision even for Hasbro.

News Credits: 7 · by **Geekee1** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:35 pm

It seems to me that it is a "stupid decision" only on the fans end of things. I don't think the execs at Hasbro are crying in their beer about a missed opportunity on one figure.

And from what I took from the Hasbro tour, the designers really try their best to be true to the origins of TF's, and get things like paint schemes and such right. It's the accountants that get in the way.

News Credits: 150 · by **GetterDragun** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:37 pm

Redimus wrote: So dont give me that 'you have to pay to play' bull ****.

Facts are, it was a terrible business decission by Hasbro, and I honestly do not know why Hasbro agreed to it.

Yea, because having 6 of the same figures (besides the color) on the shelf at once is what a retailer wants. :roll:

by **Bonger** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:10 am

Couple of points to keep in mind.

#1 Hasbro did not even bother to Resissue all 6 seekers. I didn't see a Ramjet or Thrust, did you? Hell Takara didn't even bother. They had them as exclusives in Japan....

#2 At the time of the convention, Ramjet was a Shelfwarmer. Not good for us.

#3 One could argue that FunPub came to our resue and took the matter out of Hasbro's hands as, like all the other lines since G1, we probably would not have gotten a full set of seekers. Hell they didn't even bother completing the WW seeker set. Maybe Botcon will come through with my missing Skywarp?