The Energon Pub

[microclone]

I really think it is more in the interest to keep said destroyed
molds out of recasting to keep the collectors status high.
Hasbro and Takara know this. They are not stupid.
They also have the foresight to not expend all their resources
at once. Keep the collectors always wanting something.
By the time they actually do officially release, say Wheeljack,
previously destroyed designs will be even more sought after
because they will be the first time rereleased. People will
clamor for them.

quote]

ive heard this idea several times before and to my mind its sounds like total nonsense. the suggestion that takara has any interest in the value of vintage pieces besides some general interest just doesnt make sense. MISB G1 toys all go for high values, even those reissued like prowl, in fact they (prowls) tend to go for more than the dinobots that havent been reissued.

id be incredibly suprised of some takara business planners sat together and said 'lets not reissue sunstreaker/dinos/mirage/wheeljack for years and years and then when we have all those 40-50 year old Gwonners foaming well release them and make a load of money' no, that is plain ridiculous.

this is on par with the suggestion (and if takara themselves said this its possibly just an excuse) that devastator will not be reissued because of all the KO's. how many collectors out there would not buy a reissue gift set of devastator at say $50-70 (and he only 6 small simple bots so wont be that expensive-he could be less than that) just because you have already bought some piece of **** (and they are **** by any reasonable standard) $4 KO???

You're entirely entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately
business is run that way. With limited editions, pre-sales,
exclusives. That is exactly what they do. They wait until
they feel the time is right and the market is open for
certain items. Sometimes they just wait too long.
If Takara had no interest in the vintage market they wouldn't be
re-releasing past designs.

the point i was making is that takara would not deliberately with hold reissue to keep vintage pries high and then start selling them later. I can see takara saying 'devastator gift sets sell for upto $3000 on ebay maybe we could reissue that, its obviously desirable' but id be suprised if they said 'lets not reissue devastator and see if the prices go even higher and then well reissue it'.

sure with limited editions and pre sales there are obvious stategies but thats not what we are talking about here.

unless somebody from takara can tell me otherwise, the notion that

'takara is deliberately keeping the dinobot/streaker/mirage/wheeljack unreissued so as to keep interest and prices of vintage pieces high so they can make better sales in the future when they may reissue them'

is nonsense. I suggest they havent been reissued simply because as they say, the moulds have been destroyed.

[Redimus]

Im not sure about skylynx (wasnt he designed by HasTak anyway?) but the only reason we gor Omega Supreme was becuase Tomy bought out the origanal owners of the mold years ago, so with Takara's merger with Tomy, they suddenly had the rights to produce this toy again anyway. It's unrealistic to expect them to be able to reissue Shockwave *unless* Tomy happen to already own his mold too.

As for the former Diaclone tfs that have been lost, it's been done to death, HasTak have stated they aint reverse engineering old toys, so get over it. Whilst it's true that Soundwave's mold was technically lost, they still had Soundblaster, and it was therefore a conciderably cheaper than making a completely new mold. Not to mention that Soundwave is a hugly popular charecter who has had (in verious forms) 2 Japanese reissue, an American reissue (using the origanal Soundblaster mold), and (again using the unmodified Soundblaster mold) a Japanese reissue of Soundblaster (who I personally think is the best looking of the bunch). With all the best will in the world, you are never gonna generate the same sales with Sunstreaker or Wheeljack.

[microclone]

Well, you know what would be real trippy....

Is if Takara was actually running these small knock-off companies below the radar to test out if the toys would acually be worth their time and money to reissue

yeah...think about that for a sec.

im not sure thats even remotely possible, way too complex.


takara have been reissing toys for ages now, they did dozens of microman/henshin cyborg toys as well as dozens of TF already so they know quite a bit about selling reissues already, no its sounds very, very implausible.

you think takara dont know how desirable MISB reissues of the dinobots would be already???? consider that in almost all cases the takara reissue prices have increased on the secondary market (in fact they are often double their japan retail price as standard), only the hasbro weaker reissues have remained around retail price in some cases.

[Redimus]

Hasbro Reissues were not helped by not only being weaker, but also being way overpriced (although £16 for Nipplewarp... erm I mean Skywarp isnt too bad, so long as you dont keep him in alt mode).

[fenrir72]

If I'm not mistaken, the same company that made Galvatron was the one that made Shockwave. A Korean Company IIRC. Its highly possible that Shockwave's mold still exists.

Take for example Skylynx and Omega Supreme, who know but Dezaras was re-issued under a different Takara line a few years back. It all boils down to the well, bottomline.

[Redimus]

If I'm not mistaken, the same company that made Galvatron was the one that made Shockwave. A Korean Company IIRC. Its highly possible that Shockwave's mold still exists.

You are 100,000% incorect.

I dont know where this retarded rumor origanates, but Galvatron was NOT from an outside company.

GALVATRON WAS A HASTAK DESIGN!
Dont believe me? Check the inside of his right leg:

© 1986 HASBRO, INC.
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

© TAKARA CO.LTD 1986
MADE IN CHINA

Take for example Skylynx and Omega Supreme, who know but Dezaras was re-issued under a different Takara line a few years back. It all boils down to the well, bottomline.

I wasnt aware Deathsaurus had been reissued either, but there I may be wrong.

[Repair Bay]

Take for example Skylynx and Omega Supreme, who know but Dezaras was re-issued under a different Takara line a few years back. It all boils down to the well, bottomline.

I wasnt aware Deathsaurus had been reissued either, but there I may be wrong.

I belive he's referring to the Deszaras reissue in the Brave series.

Also, I just wanted to add as a side note, when I got my US Reissue Soundwave, I compared it to my original, and there are alot of things that are off. Not drastically, or much that I'd care, seeing the history of the mold especially, just something to be noted.

[Redimus]

Also, I just wanted to add as a side note, when I got my US Reissue Soundwave, I compared it to my original, and there are alot of things that are off. Not drastically, or much that I'd care, seeing the history of the mold especially, just something to be noted.

Hasbro simply repainted the Takara Soundblaster mold for their Soundwave, the only real difereces I know of were the buttons and the fact the cassette door can hold 2 cassettes. What other differences are there?

[Shockwave06]

Thanks for the info!! Bummer though.

I'd like to see:

Devestator
Shockwave
Jetfire (can they use the same mold, or no?)
Hound

And a bunch of others but those are on the top of my list.

both Jetfire's and Shockwave's molds are not owened by Takara but my guess is that Shockwaves mold can be bought.

Jetfire's mold on the other had is still being used to make Macross figures so I doubt that we'll ever see him in the Encore line.

[Stormrider]

ive heard this idea several times before and to my mind its sounds like total nonsense. the suggestion that takara has any interest in the value of vintage pieces besides some general interest just doesnt make sense. MISB G1 toys all go for high values, even those reissued like prowl, in fact they (prowls) tend to go for more than the dinobots that havent been reissued.

id be incredibly suprised of some takara business planners sat together and said 'lets not reissue sunstreaker/dinos/mirage/wheeljack for years and years and then when we have all those 40-50 year old Gwonners foaming well release them and make a load of money' no, that is plain ridiculous.

this is on par with the suggestion (and if takara themselves said this its possibly just an excuse) that devastator will not be reissued because of all the KO's. how many collectors out there would not buy a reissue gift set of devastator at say $50-70 (and he only 6 small simple bots so wont be that expensive-he could be less than that) just because you have already bought some piece of **** (and they are **** by any reasonable standard) $4 KO???

You're entirely entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately
business is run that way. With limited editions, pre-sales,
exclusives. That is exactly what they do. They wait until
they feel the time is right and the market is open for
certain items. Sometimes they just wait too long.
If Takara had no interest in the vintage market they wouldn't be
re-releasing past designs.

the point i was making is that takara would not deliberately with hold reissue to keep vintage pries high and then start selling them later. I can see takara saying 'devastator gift sets sell for upto $3000 on ebay maybe we could reissue that, its obviously desirable' but id be suprised if they said 'lets not reissue devastator and see if the prices go even higher and then well reissue it'.

sure with limited editions and pre sales there are obvious stategies but thats not what we are talking about here.

unless somebody from takara can tell me otherwise, the notion that

'takara is deliberately keeping the dinobot/streaker/mirage/wheeljack unreissued so as to keep interest and prices of vintage pieces high so they can make better sales in the future when they may reissue them'

is nonsense. I suggest they havent been reissued simply because as they say, the moulds have been destroyed.

I think both of you have validate arguments. Sales for TakaraTomy have been down all year. TakaraTomy has voiced a couple times last year that their market is changing. The number of children being born in Japan is decreasing. So ten years from now, there will be less 13 year olds than there are today.

From a business perspective it wouldn't make sense to hold off on potential profits if profits can be made (especially if your company sales need to increase). However, a buyer's wallet has limits and Takara does not want to flood the market with too many Transformers because they could possibly loose more profits from all the added costs.

My solution - get rid of the Movie Toys. They are clogging up shelf space in Japanese toy stores.

The Encore series has been a popular hit in Japan. Optimus Prime flew off the shelves in the first month. Soundwave went pretty quick. Ironhide and Ratchet disappeared after three weeks. Megatron and Starscream are almost completely gone. (I live in Japan, which is why I know ). Now the Minibots will surely sell out in the first week. If Skylynx, Jazz, and Omega Supreme do well, then we might see this line continue a while longer.

(edited for spelling)

[Bonger]

I have to agree with Microclone on this one. I can't see anyone at Takara giving any stock to the proces on Vintage items. If anything, they should be more inclined to reissue figures with high price points for the vintage as it would be in indicator of higher demand and better sales.

We all know why Sunstreaker, Wheeljack, etc have not been reissued. The molds are broken and it costs a lot more to reissue those than items they have molds of. Of course they can make new molds, and I am sure they will if the Encore line is a massive hit and continues to be successful.

Point being, the bottom line is all that matters, not the preservation of the high end vintage market.

[Redimus]

I really dont think the reissues market will ever be lucrative enough for them to build new molds from scratch. Maybe if Prime had been lost, but not for relative bit part charecters like Wheeljack, especilly concidering their almost complete lack or repaint options.

[microclone]

stormrider. interesting point re the encore sales in japan and the movie toys clogging shelves. i'll admit, im not a fan of the movie toys, i find them generally amongst the ugliest transformer toys.

the tomy 'partnership' explains the reissue of skylynx and omega supreme (which is great) but perhaps a forteller of less to come is the fact that all the encore toys aside from those 2 are ones that have already been reissued (ratchet/ironhide were reissued as a special a few years ago of course).

Im all for encore versions of the past reissues including the hopefully debugged jazz but im not expecting too many other new moulds.

possibilities are toys that have been reused recently. Piranacon is a prime candidate, he was used in beastwars as god neptune and supposedly as an upcoming TF club exclusive, im sure a G1 boxed piranacon set would be very desirable. trypticon another, he was beast wars gigastorm.

of course there are later toys that could be reissued, maybe some gen 2 stuff. Id love to see some of the later japan only toys reissued, ashame starconvoy was a rather poor toy in my eyes.

of all the 100's of released Tf's there must be more usable moulds out there. I still thank our lucky stars for what I feel is the most impressive reissue to date: predaking, aside from the reissue there isnt a chance in hell that id ever thought of getting one of those as a gift set.

there are very few gen1 reissues that i wouldnt buy, pretty much all those toys had character. something i dont see in the movie line........

[Dagon]

Agreed, microclone. The movie figures do feel lacking in character because none of then characters in the movie actually had any character.
Agreed also on Trypticon as a future reissue option, and a great one at that.
Don't know about Pihranacon though, only because it is coming out through the TFCC. But never say never, right?

[fenrir72]

Oy Redimus, before you go about calling opinions retarded, FYI, look at the japanese box of the ORIGINAL 1986 Galvatron (I own one, its the non 'toon accurate version).

It was made by the same Korean company that manufactured Shockwave.I didn't say it wasn't designed by Hasbro /Takara, I said it was made by the same Korean company that built Shockwave.My G1 Shockwave came in a japanese marked box so I can't be sure about the US version (high probability they came from the same company) But on the original Galvatron, I'm sure it was made in Korea.

If you believe Flory Dery, it was his designs under Hasbro's auspices that put Galvatron on the drawing board. Chill dude before going ballistic ......... And yes Dezaras was repackaged for the Brave series(in red) together with Skygarry and Grandus(who had a slightly different facemold)

[fenrir72]

As for Soundwave and Soundblaster, there is a slight re-tool of his face sculpt. And the US version of TRU Soundwave couldn't fire missiles that could poke out a 5 year old's eyes.

Before I make a point, concerning G1 stuff, I make sure its backed up by real-time facts because I own such items and not depend on just any type of info in the web.

I remember a similar thread that sort off cast doubt on my opinion on TFC Soundwave's weapons not firing, which was false. It had a working spring mounted launcher.

Wheeljack not having re-paint options? What about Malboor Wheeljack? It had a totally different face sculpt, Sunstreaker had a Firechief alternate in diaclone,,easy for them to re-paint him like Deepcover and Clampdown for Sideswipe.

Why not just sit back and wait and not second guess TakaraTomy. The collectors will come if they want it, it's the usual namby pamby whiners who complain about Ironhide being ugly and not 'toon accurate and the lot that affects the sales of such re-issues.

[Ultra Prime]

Well I for one am looking forward to what Takara/Tomy will offer further down the line. With suprises like Sky Lynx & Omega Supreme I'm going with the idea that almost anything is possible.

However, I would absolutely love Thrust & Ramjet reissues so that I can complete my G1 seekers. I won't even mention Devastator because I know we all want to see him reissued!

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Oy Redimus, before you go about calling opinions retarded, FYI, look at the japanese box of the ORIGINAL 1986 Galvatron (I own one, its the non 'toon accurate version).

Can you post a pic of that box????The reason I ask is because I had once heard that the company that made Shockwave was hired to make some of the 86/87 figures and that would confirm it.

Wheeljack not having re-paint options? What about Malboor Wheeljack? It had a totally different face sculpt, Sunstreaker had a Firechief alternate in diaclone,,easy for them to re-paint him like Deepcover and Clampdown for Sideswipe.

Deepcover and Clampdown are not original G1 characters.I dont think that Takara will invest in new molds for one character toys even if they may make some money on new characters.

[microclone]

Agreed, microclone. The movie figures do feel lacking in character because none of then characters in the movie actually had any character.
Agreed also on Trypticon as a future reissue option, and a great one at that.
Don't know about Pihranacon though, only because it is coming out through the TFCC. But never say never, right?

dagon. im not sure on this but is the piranacon going to have its vintage type colours or a new exclusive colour set?

I see that god neptune was lacking one of the 6 toys and some extra pieces, if these have all been refound/sculpted for the TFCC set it would seem like a sensible idea for them to reissue the set, and remember the TFCC is for the US only?? and takara could reissue it in jaopan as an encore. i really like piranacon, those little gaudy critters have so much personality despite/because of the oddball designs.

[Ultra Prime]

and remember the TFCC is for the US only??

That's a rather controversial thing to say. There are alot of fans that feel burned (and rightfully so) on the exclusive Classics seekers. Trust me, the TFCC is NOT for the US only. It's just stupidly expensive for anyone outside the US to be part of the club.

[Craven Knight]

...the TFCC is NOT for the US only. It's just stupidly expensive for anyone outside the US to be part of the club.

That's why I hate them so much, since they have no bricks & mortar store, all their TF's are sent out to members by post, so what does is matter if I'm in New Zealand rather than America?

[Craven Knight]

..Maybe if Prime had been lost, but not for relative bit part charecters like Wheeljack, especilly concidering their almost complete lack or repaint options.

Nemesis Wheeljack, Ooooo!

[nolga supreme]

In response to the Ironhide and rachet reiusses a few years ago and the encore. I have an Ironhide from the first reissue. He is great I can hardly tell that is is 20 years younger than the orginal. However, the encore Ratchet might as well have been made by a KO company. THe plastics are so different (I am comparing the New Ironhide to Newer ratchet).

Anyway I like the thought of Takara producing KO's to test the market. Very sly.

nolga

[microclone]

and remember the TFCC is for the US only??

That's a rather controversial thing to say. There are alot of fans that feel burned (and rightfully so) on the exclusive Classics seekers. Trust me, the TFCC is NOT for the US only. It's just stupidly expensive for anyone outside the US to be part of the club.

thanks for the clarification. if the seacons are a new colour set?? then theres still a chance of a reissue, well hopefully.

[Ratking]

Reflector! With a bonus, tiny version of the camera that can clip onto a seeker fist.