The Energon Pub

[Razorclaw0000]

Last week, I received a package courtesy of Activision. It contained the brand new Transformers Dark of the Moon. I popped it into my XBox 360 and played the first level. I'm trying to avoid some spoilers before tomorrow's release of the movie, so I will update this review once I finish the game and get some time in with Multiplayer.




Sound

DOTM shines with superb voice acting, including Peter Cullen's unmistakable Optimus Prime. Cullen delivers his lines with as much conviction as the movie, and helps to sell the game as an extension of the story. The score is equally integral, composed by Steve Jablonsky, the mastermind between all three movie scores. Jablonsky excels at delivering sweeping, epic moments punctuated by heart-pounding crescendos.




Graphics

While DOTM looks great, it does nothing to push the envelope with it's graphics. Built on the Unreal 3 Engine, the game does look good. Characters are fluid, and, on the XBox 360, everything was crisp and seamless. However, character models don't feel much more detailed than the Revenge of the Fallen game. My biggest disappointment is in the environments. The initial Bumblebee level is nondescript and boring. I hope that subsequent levels are more fleshed out, and I'll update this review as I play.




Gameplay

Here's the big problem with Dark of the Moon. The gimmick in this game is a third mode for each playable character, called "Stealth Force", where the character is mostly in vehicle mode, but with weapons visible. There is no reason to leave "Stealth Force" at all, as it combines great manuverability, more powerful weapons with a lock on feature, and faster health regeneration. Robot mode is sluggish and vulnerable. Vehicle mode is faster, but difficult to control compared to Stealth Force mode, and lacks any offensive capabilities other than hit and run tactics. The game lacks balance between the modes. If you are used to a modern third-person action/cover shooter, like Gears of War, Mass Effect 2, or the Uncharted series, prepare to be disappointed by DOTM's idea of cover... Stand behind something. There's no stickiness to cover, and aiming is imprecise. Melee combat is equally imprecise. At the end of the day, the developers made an impressive vehicle combat game, but a lackluster Transformers game.




Final Thoughts

Dark of the Moon has some moments of joy, but ultimately it's eclipsed by other titles with more modern sensibilities. Only recommended if you're a diehard Transformers fan, a masochist, or find this in a $10 bin in a few months. The relatively high production values are marred by last gen gameplay mechanics and generic environments.

Seibertron.com is your ultimate Dark of the Moon resource! Stay here for our weeklong Dark of the Moon launch coverage!

[DISCHARGE]

Thanks for the review. I almost rented this from Redbox.

Have yet to find a Transformers game that tops Heavy Metal War.

[amtm]

Thanks for the review. Nothing less than I expected after playing the first movie game. It was easily one of the worst video games I've ever played. I passed completely on the second and so far have not touched War for Cybertron either as the first movie game was such a huge turn-off. The only Transformers game I've played that I liked was the one for Playstation based on Armada with all the minicons. That was a good game--it developed over the levels, had varying types of opponents, different environments, and controls that were easy to learn and worked like they were supposed to. And no "action zones" and time limits on everything. In other words, it was a well-made game that just happened to be about Transformers, rather than a piece of crap that just happened to have Transformers branding slapped on it. (The same piece of crap used for the Spiderman games and I'm sure countless other movie-licensed games that simply recycle the same core with different visuals.)

[TimothyR]

i personally think both vehicle and stealth modes are necessary, you can't move fast and what not when you're in stealth mode.

and for me.. the game was WAY WAY TOO SHORT. 3 autobot missions, 3 decepticon missions, and a final battle.. that's extremely weak. especially when compared to war for cybertron.

i didn't mind the controls.. it was, like i said, the length of the game that made me trade it in the next day.

[MINDVVIPE]

Well, the campaign was definitely not somthing I'd bother ever playing again. The multiplayer is still fun though, and changing between all 3 forms definitely matters in multipalyer mode.

[wfcsoundwave]

I Disagree with this review. First off your concerned about spoilers which is a bit silly to me because they have already stated it's a prequel to the movie many times and as someone who has actually finished the game i can tell you there are only a few tiny hints no real spoilers. And this brings to a major issue with the review actually beat the game before you rank on it like that that was just ridiculous to call it next to worthless before you even finish as someone who has actually completed the game it' actually quite good while stealth force can be overpowered sometimes in campaign they balanced it very well in multiplayer mode where issues like that actually matter. oh by the way the stealth force does not have faster health regeneration actually make sure before you claim these things Your complaint about cover isn't as big a deal as you make it to be and your comparing this game to gears of war 3 and uncharted when you should be comparing it to other transformers game because your audience is transformers fans not necessarily hardcore gamers. Also your final thoughts are you just saying the game was terrible without anything substantial you didn't finish the game or even play the online this review is terrible just terrible. By the way most critics actually finish the game before reviewing it

[jbellanca]

I gotta say that I completely 100^ disagree with this assessment of the game. I loved it. It's the exact same gameplay as War for Cybertron - built on the same game engine in fact, with new character models and levels but the backend's the same. If you liked WFC, you'll like DOTM. Personally, I really, really enjoyed it. Just finished it last night and got into the multiplayer a bit, which I'll probably keep playing. Going to go back to try to get all the trophies next (got the PS3 version). I definitely recommend it for any TF fan who has a PS3 or 360. Also gives a very good background story that leads right into the movie, including introducing Shockwave. If you're still not sure, go rent it from Redbox for a day and check it out - I bet you'll be hooked. I didn't have any of the issues the author had with it being awkward to find cover behind something and shooting from there... not as elegant as how Uncharted did it, but it's effective. Depending on the weapon you're using you can use the scope to zoom in for further away shots. All in all, I thought it was a really fun game. Also, I rarely used the Stealth Force mode (vehicle mode) - only when I absolutely had to - I used robot mode for 99% of the game - didn't find it sluggish or hard to control at all - actually found it to be much easier to use robot mode than stealth force. My single, only complaint about the game (lots of complaints about the review - finish the game first and rate it compared to others in its class), is in multiplayer - when playing multiplayer as an Autobot, the team death match is sometimes skewed to the Decepticons too much when there's a lot of Decepticon Seekers playing - they tend to fly around in jet mode and overpower everyone else... but that's a minor complaint.

[MINDVVIPE]

I gotta say that I completely 100^ disagree with this assessment of the game. I loved it. It's the exact same gameplay as War for Cybertron - built on the same game engine in fact, with new character models and levels but the backend's the same. If you liked WFC, you'll like DOTM. Personally, I really, really enjoyed it. Just finished it last night and got into the multiplayer a bit, which I'll probably keep playing. Going to go back to try to get all the trophies next (got the PS3 version). I definitely recommend it for any TF fan who has a PS3 or 360. Also gives a very good background story that leads right into the movie, including introducing Shockwave. If you're still not sure, go rent it from Redbox for a day and check it out - I bet you'll be hooked. I didn't have any of the issues the author had with it being awkward to find cover behind something and shooting from there... not as elegant as how Uncharted did it, but it's effective. Depending on the weapon you're using you can use the scope to zoom in for further away shots. All in all, I thought it was a really fun game. Also, I rarely used the Stealth Force mode (vehicle mode) - only when I absolutely had to - I used robot mode for 99% of the game - didn't find it sluggish or hard to control at all - actually found it to be much easier to use robot mode than stealth force. My single, only complaint about the game (lots of complaints about the review - finish the game first and rate it compared to others in its class), is in multiplayer - when playing multiplayer as an Autobot, the team death match is sometimes skewed to the Decepticons too much when there's a lot of Decepticon Seekers playing - they tend to fly around in jet mode and overpower everyone else... but that's a minor complaint.

Indeed, cover ISN'T that big of a deal. TBH, SCREW gears of war (disliked both 1 and 2, both single and multiplayer). Hardcore games mean you gota be clever in finding cover, not just tap a button and have it solve all your problems (i.e. FPS games, which shares some of the fast and furious combat I find in WFC and DOTM)
As for the Seekers, they are overly powerful regardless of faction, I find, but yes. The Decepticons do seem to have some nicer advantages.

[g60force]

Man this sounds like an amateur at least for the fact you played 1lever and sound SUPER negative
1level??? Wow C'mon that's more like a preview.... All for the sake of I want to be first it seem

[D-340]

I shared my thoughts on the game in an earlier thread, so I'm not gonna go too in depth here. You do have to finish the game here though, basing a review on the first level isn't really fair. It's a decent game, thought the campaign is WAY too short. Online is fun, though I really wish there was an Escalation mode and some co-op. The modes though are definitely more balanced than you're saying though, yeah stealth mode is probably the easiest mode to fall back on, but it's not as precise as robot mode. And try outrunning the erupting volcano in any other of Soundwave's modes but vehicle mode, it can't be done(I tried). I will say that DOTM shoulda came before WFC, as WFC just seems like it is far superior to DOTM. But hopefully some dlc comes down the pike and brings it up to par with it.

[Megatronsdemise666]

yeah i agree. you gotta finish the game. and this game has way better graphics as ROTF. just look at the dang detail in bumblebees legs and the other robot that is there(the whitish one).

I shared my thoughts on the game in an earlier thread, so I'm not gonna go too in depth here. You do have to finish the game here though, basing a review on the first level isn't really fair. It's a decent game, thought the campaign is WAY too short. Online is fun, though I really wish there was an Escalation mode and some co-op. The modes though are definitely more balanced than you're saying though, yeah stealth mode is probably the easiest mode to fall back on, but it's not as precise as robot mode. And try outrunning the erupting volcano in any other of Soundwave's modes but vehicle mode, it can't be done(I tried). I will say that DOTM shoulda came before WFC, as WFC just seems like it is far superior to DOTM. But hopefully some dlc comes down the pike and brings it up to par with it.

and im sure there will be a DLC. on the PS3 case it says there is Add-on Content.
i like WFC but i wish the stages weren't so bland looking

[Bleak5170]

I actually enjoyed the campaign but I will admit it was far too linear and painfully short. I mean, REALLY short. You can finish this one in one afternoon sitting. But the mechanics were excellent and the guns really felt like they pack a punch, (especially when utilizing Ironhide's massive arm cannons). This was one area where War for Cybertron was lacking.

MP is pretty meh. 3 modes and 5 maps with no DLC on the way, (confirmed by High Moon). It's fun for about an hour and that's it. It did bring me back to my days of deathmatch carnage playing UT which was cool. And for some really odd reason I can't kill anybody with Megatron or Shockwave's weapons in MP. I do great with the Autobots. My kill/death ratio is over 2.00 and I usually go negative when playing as a Decepticon which should tell you just how much of a difference there is.

[Blackstreak]

Cool, the game was suppose to be a pre-lude to the movie. I've wanted to get a complete set of TF games on the PC but it sounds like DOTM is just as hard to control as ROTF was. ROTF, on one hand was easy to play in the training mission, but once I got the first mission as Ironhide the game kept lagging my computer. My computer was built to handle WFC!! It should have no problem w/ ROTF or DOTM. I may end up not bothering w/ DOTM then.

[bengear]

I agree with this review.... it had it's moments but overarching poor control issues killed it for me. (and I've completed the game by the way). the laserbeak level? why the heck do we even have a forward thrust mode in that claustrophobic area? it was impossible for me to navigate the tunnels without crashing into the sides constantly. He even has a cool jet type mode where his thrusters turn backwards when you're jetting forward but you almost can't get enough room to even see it! It's possible I suck at it but I found it frustrating anyway

one good thing about it is that it reinvigorated my transformers game lust and I have dusted off WFC again.

I simply enjoy playing wfc, I didn't enjoy playing DOTM. Personal preference.

[FflawSuperior]

I have to agree with the review, but in a different way, and disagree strongly with anyone who thinks DOTM was like WFC, or anywhere near as good. It used the same Engine, and vaguely uses similar things, but WFC and DOTM are night and day when you get down to actual gameplay, and the nuts and bolts of everything. WFC being the victor, and the far superior game in pretty much every way.

The DOTM menu's from the get-go are sticky and stuttery - There's little to no fluidity to them, when you click something: it should go. With DOTM menu's, they don't. You have to stop and wait for everything to rez, or click something a couple times until it goes.

The load screens are just as long as WFC, despite being a significantly smaller everything. Smaller maps, smaller levels, lesser graphics, etc. I don't have any issue with a load screen that's only like 10-20 seconds, but when you get unrezzed textures and tiny levels? Not worth it.

The two Jet options are awful. Flying is extremely slow and really screwy controls that don't work anywhere near as well as WFC.

Character movement speed is cut in two - Falsely extending the length of the game by who know's how long - The actual story mode is only 3-4 hours worth of gameplay. And you can max out all your characters in multiplayer in another 3-4 hours easily.

Character variety is nil. And no initial DLC either, so you're stuck with (more or less) one option per class per side. Even WFC gave like 2 options per class, but DOTM throws those models out the window and leaves you with one.

The HUD is ruined. You can't see it half the time, and abilities take 30-120 seconds to be useable - Which is nearly impossible in Multiplayer for most people. The HUD doesn't make much sense either, and the way it's so tiny and out of the way is eye-straining and irritating.

Movement speed, aarrrg @_x All modes are slow as heck for almost every class, except warrior? The giant tank moves REALLY fast, for some reason. Jets are the slowest to move, for some reason.

The weapons suck now. They're all weakened, and horribly inaccurate now. The crosshairs are inaccurate as well, they don't reflect the actual shooting at all.

Weapon-specific weaponry is bull, and character-specific abilities are stupid, when you give nearly no options for character variety. You can't pick up weapons, so you're stuck with one specific weapon for every character, and can't change that main weapon - Only the secondary, but those options are just as bad. Soundwave's soundgun thing does almost no damage, starscream's generic rocket launcher is barely worthwhile.

The "upgrade" system was dumbed down completely to the point it doesn't even make sense. Your FIRST upgrade is "Roll out" which increases Ram damage...This is your first option when you are A JET. Jet's DON'T DO DAMAGE when ramming AT ALL. WFC you had class-specific abilities, but apparently that was "too complex" so we're going to give everyone generic upgrades that barely help? Anyone can get a character to max level in an hour easily, so they're even more meaningless.

DOTM has degraded graphics, noticeable amount of buggy things, a weak and insultingly short campaign, compacted with a dumbed-down multiplayer mode that lacks fun or intensity. The transformations are sluggish, action is stiff and confusing (giving no sense of impact when you attack), and weapons are boring/lowered in damage.
Movement is very slow, which drags the whole game down, and combined with the poorly constructed HUD.
Tiny maps with lots of high places that are often ground-floor, but too high for any character to jump on, leaving almost everyone stuck on the ground. The maps are also boring and not rounded out fairly for both sides. You also can't double jump, which is an important factor when you realize you don't have it

I'd give DOTM a 4 or 5 out of 10, at best. Nothing is satisfactory, no sense of accomplishment, or "umf" to it. It doesn't feel all that polished. The whole package poorly structured - Yet it still costs 60$ when it's barely 30$ worth of gameplay/value.

[MINDVVIPE]

I have to agree with the review, but in a different way, and disagree strongly with anyone who thinks DOTM was like WFC, or anywhere near as good. It used the same Engine, and vaguely uses similar things, but WFC and DOTM are night and day when you get down to actual gameplay, and the nuts and bolts of everything. WFC being the victor, and the far superior game in pretty much every way.

The DOTM menu's from the get-go are sticky and stuttery - There's little to no fluidity to them, when you click something: it should go. With DOTM menu's, they don't. You have to stop and wait for everything to rez, or click something a couple times until it goes.

The load screens are just as long as WFC, despite being a significantly smaller everything. Smaller maps, smaller levels, lesser graphics, etc. I don't have any issue with a load screen that's only like 10-20 seconds, but when you get unrezzed textures and tiny levels? Not worth it.

The two Jet options are awful. Flying is extremely slow and really screwy controls that don't work anywhere near as well as WFC.

Character movement speed is cut in two - Falsely extending the length of the game by who know's how long - The actual story mode is only 3-4 hours worth of gameplay. And you can max out all your characters in multiplayer in another 3-4 hours easily.

Character variety is nil. And no initial DLC either, so you're stuck with (more or less) one option per class per side. Even WFC gave like 2 options per class, but DOTM throws those models out the window and leaves you with one.

The HUD is ruined. You can't see it half the time, and abilities take 30-120 seconds to be useable - Which is nearly impossible in Multiplayer for most people. The HUD doesn't make much sense either, and the way it's so tiny and out of the way is eye-straining and irritating.

Movement speed, aarrrg @_x All modes are slow as heck for almost every class, except warrior? The giant tank moves REALLY fast, for some reason. Jets are the slowest to move, for some reason.

The weapons suck now. They're all weakened, and horribly inaccurate now. The crosshairs are inaccurate as well, they don't reflect the actual shooting at all.

Weapon-specific weaponry is bull, and character-specific abilities are stupid, when you give nearly no options for character variety. You can't pick up weapons, so you're stuck with one specific weapon for every character, and can't change that main weapon - Only the secondary, but those options are just as bad. Soundwave's soundgun thing does almost no damage, starscream's generic rocket launcher is barely worthwhile.

The "upgrade" system was dumbed down completely to the point it doesn't even make sense. Your FIRST upgrade is "Roll out" which increases Ram damage...This is your first option when you are A JET. Jet's DON'T DO DAMAGE when ramming AT ALL. WFC you had class-specific abilities, but apparently that was "too complex" so we're going to give everyone generic upgrades that barely help? Anyone can get a character to max level in an hour easily, so they're even more meaningless.

DOTM has degraded graphics, noticeable amount of buggy things, a weak and insultingly short campaign, compacted with a dumbed-down multiplayer mode that lacks fun or intensity. The transformations are sluggish, action is stiff and confusing (giving no sense of impact when you attack), and weapons are boring/lowered in damage.
Movement is very slow, which drags the whole game down, and combined with the poorly constructed HUD.
Tiny maps with lots of high places that are often ground-floor, but too high for any character to jump on, leaving almost everyone stuck on the ground. The maps are also boring and not rounded out fairly for both sides. You also can't double jump, which is an important factor when you realize you don't have it

I'd give DOTM a 4 or 5 out of 10, at best. Nothing is satisfactory, no sense of accomplishment, or "umf" to it. It doesn't feel all that polished. The whole package poorly structured - Yet it still costs 60$ when it's barely 30$ worth of gameplay/value.

You know what man, If I were not to hold back, my review might have sounded a lot like yours
I agree with a ton of what you said, with the exception of Soundwaves gun. Its pretty much useless UNLESS you charge it up fully, then it can take them one hit away from death. And Starscreams rockets I have learnt to make use of. Anyway, since others are gonna read what you said, I just wanted to counter with even tho I completely agree with you, I still like playing it, just to "add" to WFC in my game collection variety (if that makes sense).

[amtm]

I just have one question. Why are most of the comments on this thread critiquing the reviewer instead of the game?

[Pot Bot]

I think there is a point being missed, for a movie tie-in........its bloody great. the first game was poor (even though it had things all games since lack ie decent open cities with other things to do than follow the baddies, and the G1 skins which i still love lol). ROTF was ok, not great, and flawed massively but as a tf fan it was great to drive round as bb, prime etc. I love WFC, some problems but a solid start for a franchise, and DOTM is imo very similar to WFC, just dumbed down for non tf fans who want to play. But yes it is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too short.

As i said before though, it is fantastic compared to most other movie-tie in games

[WANTED WES]

I bought the game and played DOTM recently. I didn't feel it was a rip off but I did feel it was a letdown from WFC. I had heard High Moon had actually been working on this before WFC was released but I find that doubtful based on the less than usual polish they put into WFC. WFC had a great campaign and story that left me wanting more and more. DOTM I was kinda going through the motions. The only part that I really remember and liked was Starscream's chase sequence on Stratosphere. Otherwise the end boss, Shockwave and the battle was total BS. Took forever and made me think Shockwave was better than Optimus and Megatron combined. I've been playing the multiplayer and while it's nice it is a watered down version of WFC multiplayer. Now I wish I had not traded in WFC and in fact want to get it back so I can play multiplayer again in that game as it had more ability and weapon customization. I find most of the reviews that hover around 7 out of 10 to be quite accurate. I'm more interested in a WFC 2 at this point.

[Galvatrondestroyer]

DOTM was a let down for me...completed the campaign in less than a day and finished off the achievements for it in 3 days. (was playing COD more) The multiplayer was pretty laggy the last few times I played it and Shockwave doesn't even have an alt mode when you unlock him for MP. Also, there wasn't a whole lot of selection for certain classes.

[DJLazer]

Well, the campaign was definitely not somthing I'd bother ever playing again. The multiplayer is still fun though, and changing between all 3 forms definitely matters in multipalyer mode.

the onlything i like about tf games were multiplayer modes, however the WFC single player campaigns is the best

[Sparkstalker]

I've been looking for somewhere to vent my Transformer game frustrations and here looks as good as anywhere.

Now I'm no game developer or professional tester but I can give you a perspective from a successful gamer and big TF fan. I'm sick of reading reviews and opinions from people who don't know what they are talking about because they are children or have hardly played the game!
To give you my background I'm third overall on both ROTF and DOTM ( PS3 ) which means I should know something. I also play on a 60" so if something is going on in the graphics department I can't miss it even if I try.
That out the way let clear up some of these misconceptions.

ROTF has much higher character detailing, WFC,DOTM have much more graphically intensive levels/maps. I assume this is why WFC and DOTM need 5 and 4 install gigs respectively, where as ROTF only needs 51MB?
One stand out difference between the Luxoflux and High Moon games is ROTF seems to have RAM to play with so we got characters with smoke and sparks coming out of them when they were damaged and highly interactive environments, ( anyone remember trying to walk in Sandstorm map at the beginning of a game, having to force your way through all the telegraph poles and assorted items on the ground?)
The High Moon games seem to spend all their RAM on rendering the environments which means nothing left over for interaction and slow down when to much is going on.

What I think High Moon did with DOTM was take WFC and rewrite part of it to allow for the pure vehicular mode which unfortunately seems to have made the whole game highly unstable. Crashes in game but most of the time mine crashes in or between menus. Gameplay wise its a bit more balanced then WFC( scout is now the fav instead of leader) but the game crashes ALMOST EVERY HOUR.
On top of that, connection issues between players can manifest themselves in game in a variety of amusing and non-amusing ways. I once spawned at the beginning of a match as a hunter stuck in hover/robot mode ground level, no weapons, can't transform but had infinite grenades!
I don't know how the two games ( ROTF, DOTM ) netcodes differ but you would very rarely encounter players in ROTF with lag and if you did it was normally because they were doing it on purpose and it would just be the usual disappear, reappear as they moved but in WFC and DOTM lag makes the game fall apart for some reason.

Gearbox recently stated they were originally trying to use the Unreal engine for the upcoming Aliens: Colonial Marines but ditched it as they said it just didn't cut it in this day and age. So basically DOTM runs on a dodgy version of a game engine that is no longer considered good enough by other companies.

Now you can't fully blame High Moon, I believe full blame lies with Activision, here's why. My friend read out to me over PSN a corporate message from Activision which stated that the TF games to follow ROTF were to be made to be more easily played and accessible to the masses, ( read simpler ). So thats what we got. Games that are aimed at kiddies and those who can't tell the difference between a good game and a bad one.
It is nothing short of offensive the difference in game size, re playability and complexity between ROTF and DOTM.
But I'm sure its all a deliberate part of their corporate plan to put TF's in the same money making one a year COD formula and to make games that people bore of easily so they rush out to buy the next one hoping it will be better.

I see they are releasing DOTM DLC, but no patch to fix basic things like Starscreams weapon glitch and the fact that I can only get on the servers if I sign out of psn, load the game then sign on. DOTM and WFC are the only games that dick me round like this. WFC didn't start off like that but somewhere along its history I started not being able to get on the WFC servers unless I signed off, gave it a minute then signed on again. I thought games had to meet Sonys quality control before they could be released? Someone is not doing their job. I won't be buying another game from High Moon and I may well tell Activision to kiss my ass if they don't fix their mess.

[MINDVVIPE]

I've been looking for somewhere to vent my Transformer game frustrations and here looks as good as anywhere.

Now I'm no game developer or professional tester but I can give you a perspective from a successful gamer and big TF fan. I'm sick of reading reviews and opinions from people who don't know what they are talking about because they are children or have hardly played the game!
To give you my background I'm third overall on both ROTF and DOTM ( PS3 ) which means I should know something. I also play on a 60" so if something is going on in the graphics department I can't miss it even if I try.
That out the way let clear up some of these misconceptions.

ROTF has much higher character detailing, WFC,DOTM have much more graphically intensive levels/maps. I assume this is why WFC and DOTM need 5 and 4 install gigs respectively, where as ROTF only needs 51MB?
One stand out difference between the Luxoflux and High Moon games is ROTF seems to have RAM to play with so we got characters with smoke and sparks coming out of them when they were damaged and highly interactive environments, ( anyone remember trying to walk in Sandstorm map at the beginning of a game, having to force your way through all the telegraph poles and assorted items on the ground?)
The High Moon games seem to spend all their RAM on rendering the environments which means nothing left over for interaction and slow down when to much is going on.

What I think High Moon did with DOTM was take WFC and rewrite part of it to allow for the pure vehicular mode which unfortunately seems to have made the whole game highly unstable. Crashes in game but most of the time mine crashes in or between menus. Gameplay wise its a bit more balanced then WFC( scout is now the fav instead of leader) but the game crashes ALMOST EVERY HOUR.
On top of that, connection issues between players can manifest themselves in game in a variety of amusing and non-amusing ways. I once spawned at the beginning of a match as a hunter stuck in hover/robot mode ground level, no weapons, can't transform but had infinite grenades!
I don't know how the two games ( ROTF, DOTM ) netcodes differ but you would very rarely encounter players in ROTF with lag and if you did it was normally because they were doing it on purpose and it would just be the usual disappear, reappear as they moved but in WFC and DOTM lag makes the game fall apart for some reason.

Gearbox recently stated they were originally trying to use the Unreal engine for the upcoming Aliens: Colonial Marines but ditched it as they said it just didn't cut it in this day and age. So basically DOTM runs on a dodgy version of a game engine that is no longer considered good enough by other companies.

Now you can't fully blame High Moon, I believe full blame lies with Activision, here's why. My friend read out to me over PSN a corporate message from Activision which stated that the TF games to follow ROTF were to be made to be more easily played and accessible to the masses, ( read simpler ). So thats what we got. Games that are aimed at kiddies and those who can't tell the difference between a good game and a bad one.
It is nothing short of offensive the difference in game size, re playability and complexity between ROTF and DOTM.
But I'm sure its all a deliberate part of their corporate plan to put TF's in the same money making one a year COD formula and to make games that people bore of easily so they rush out to buy the next one hoping it will be better.

I see they are releasing DOTM DLC, but no patch to fix basic things like Starscreams weapon glitch and the fact that I can only get on the servers if I sign out of psn, load the game then sign on. DOTM and WFC are the only games that dick me round like this. WFC didn't start off like that but somewhere along its history I started not being able to get on the WFC servers unless I signed off, gave it a minute then signed on again. I thought games had to meet Sonys quality control before they could be released? Someone is not doing their job. I won't be buying another game from High Moon and I may well tell Activision to kiss my ass if they don't fix their mess.

Even with the problems you mentioned, which never really occur for me (okay, there is a fair bit of glitchiness when it comes to DOTM if you are too fast to interact with the game) on 360 other than lag, WFC and to a lesser extent DOTM are much more enjoyable games. ROTF was the most pointless multiplayer gaming I played, and I actually played it quite a few times to see if my luck just sucked. Maybe if they made their maps better, it could have worked, but other than that, there was really no "umph" in getting any kills, and you pretty much get killed off if your not camping.

Lag happens in any game, you can't avoid it. I have lag issues on about every game I have ever played online at some point or another. The more gamers from across the world, the more likely you're going to have people lagging out (and then there are the lag-switchers ) I agree that both WFC and DOTM can slow down if too much is going on, especially in DOTM, but again, atleast it was still engaging even with the slowdown.

Now ROTF might have had higher poly character models, but at the huge expense of actual fun gameplay. It was clear that a ton of their work went into making transformations complex and, albeit, awesome, but the actual substance of the game dynamics were pretty lackluster. Now, single player DOTM isn't that much better to me in that respect, as it had potential, but not enough time to mature. Thankfully those same fun elements carried over into multiplayer.

As for the unreal engine, well... its always been sorta glitchy. Rainbow Six vegas had its share of wierdness, Gears of War surprisingly seemed clean to me though. Sometimes with a new engine, they create it to handle more particle effects and physics, and push the boundaries... so its no surprise its going to be a challenge to work with. Which means the more time they spend to work on it, the better the game will be. If your going to blame anyone, blame the fact that its a movie game. The whole game industry tends to forget game quality when they are assured a certain amount of sales from the movie tie in, right? We got lucky that it was HighMoon coz they didn't need to work from scratch. They probably spent even less time on fixing bugs since they needed that time to make new art assets.

Anyway, I agree that there a multitude of technical issues with DOTM, but MUCH less with WFC imo (and thats coming from a pc gamer). ROTF might be a cleaner game, but theres only so much you can do with a polished turd.

[Sparkstalker]

but the actual substance of the game dynamics were pretty lackluster.

How do you figure that? The actual gameplay substance is much more complex then DOTM and more then most people ever get around to mastering. eg

DOTM= 1 type of melee, single hit.

ROTF= 3 types of melee, single hit, 3 hit combo and charged up melee
Advanced melee equals 4, plus ground pound which you can do from vehicle mode or
robot gives a grand total of 6 melee options.

That is the tip of the iceberg. No offence but you clearly don't know what your talking about. In fact the opposite is true. "Substance of game dynamics" is exactly what ROTF has over DOTM, WFC.
ROTF is a fine swiss watch wrapped in a brown paper bag, where as DOTM is your polished turd. Looks good (if your standing still) but underneath is a dumbed down, simple game that can't even do that properly. Its a bit of fun but doesn't make up for what its lacking.
DOTM and WFC have little depth in gameplay (at least WFC is stable), hence why they have given you levels to go up, to give you a reason to play, then a reason to stop playing when you max out. Back in the day we would play video games because they were fun not for false rewards. They are basically drip feeding you a game that is still smaller in every aspect even when you max out. Wake up and smell the coffee.

I watched 99% of ROTF players come and go without working out how to play anything but the cheapest of characters, (Prime, Flight Meg, Jazz) because with those characters there is nothing to work out. You just stand and shoot. I think alot of people really didn't figure on the game having much depth, (or they are just stupid) so they didn't look, hence they didn't see. Still to this day I'm the only one I've seen to work out how to play Soundwave and Powered up Prime properly and there is still room for improvement in my game. That aint right! Thats not the fault of the game, its the fault of the snail brain masses that decided to walk a easier path.
I guess games with replayability are wasted these days since people don't seem to have any attention span or the smarts to see whats right in front of them.

As a heavy gamer, TF fan, and someone whos actually given both games a chance I can safely say that DOTM can only be recommended to casual gamers and children. Where as with ROTF's single player campaign leaderboards and complex multiplayer you could live on it for many years and still be able to to improve how well you play. More options then most peoples brains can comprehend which equals a game that will stand the test of time.
In fact I would be willing to bet there are still more people in ROTF multiplayer then WFC.
I've had my fill of DOTM, not prepared to risk an epileptic attack trying to watch that glitchy rubbish anymore, not to mention the fear that the constant crashing will one day brick my system. After a many hour gaming session on DOTM with Starscream I felt physically sick/nausious from the jerky graphics. I have logged over 900hrs on Revenge and have never experienced any side effects.

One difference between the games is ROTF is more about how well you can aim. Where as in DOTM aiming has only a very small part to play in your success. Auto aim and all, a blind man could score in DOTM. People don't like to lose. Thats going to earn DOTM brownie points in alot of peoples books. A game they can't miss in. Doesn't make it a good game just means the game companies are pandering to masses of spoilt little brats who can't handle losing. Why do you think DOTM suffers from 'host migration'? It's not accidental. It's so those who can't handle losing can quit out and reshuffle the players until they have shed players challenging/beating them ( people like me! ) Like I said its geared towards little kids.
I really wish I could get in contact with someone who was involved with making the ROTF game, I wanna shake their hands! How many employees of Luxoflux were re-employed within Activision? There must be someone out there!

[MINDVVIPE]

but the actual substance of the game dynamics were pretty lackluster.

How do you figure that? The actual gameplay substance is much more complex then DOTM and more then most people ever get around to mastering. eg

DOTM= 1 type of melee, single hit.

ROTF= 3 types of melee, single hit, 3 hit combo and charged up melee
Advanced melee equals 4, plus ground pound which you can do from vehicle mode or
robot gives a grand total of 6 melee options.

That is the tip of the iceberg. No offence but you clearly don't know what your talking about. In fact the opposite is true. "Substance of game dynamics" is exactly what ROTF has over DOTM, WFC.
ROTF is a fine swiss watch wrapped in a brown paper bag, where as DOTM is your polished turd. Looks good (if your standing still) but underneath is a dumbed down, simple game that can't even do that properly. Its a bit of fun but doesn't make up for what its lacking.
DOTM and WFC have little depth in gameplay (at least WFC is stable), hence why they have given you levels to go up, to give you a reason to play, then a reason to stop playing when you max out. Back in the day we would play video games because they were fun not for false rewards. They are basically drip feeding you a game that is still smaller in every aspect even when you max out. Wake up and smell the coffee.

I watched 99% of ROTF players come and go without working out how to play anything but the cheapest of characters, (Prime, Flight Meg, Jazz) because with those characters there is nothing to work out. You just stand and shoot. I think alot of people really didn't figure on the game having much depth, (or they are just stupid) so they didn't look, hence they didn't see. Still to this day I'm the only one I've seen to work out how to play Soundwave and Powered up Prime properly and there is still room for improvement in my game. That aint right! Thats not the fault of the game, its the fault of the snail brain masses that decided to walk a easier path.
I guess games with replayability are wasted these days since people don't seem to have any attention span or the smarts to see whats right in front of them.

As a heavy gamer, TF fan, and someone whos actually given both games a chance I can safely say that DOTM can only be recommended to casual gamers and children. Where as with ROTF's single player campaign leaderboards and complex multiplayer you could live on it for many years and still be able to to improve how well you play. More options then most peoples brains can comprehend which equals a game that will stand the test of time.
In fact I would be willing to bet there are still more people in ROTF multiplayer then WFC.
I've had my fill of DOTM, not prepared to risk an epileptic attack trying to watch that glitchy rubbish anymore, not to mention the fear that the constant crashing will one day brick my system. After a many hour gaming session on DOTM with Starscream I felt physically sick/nausious from the jerky graphics. I have logged over 900hrs on Revenge and have never experienced any side effects.

One difference between the games is ROTF is more about how well you can aim. Where as in DOTM aiming has only a very small part to play in your success. Auto aim and all, a blind man could score in DOTM. People don't like to lose. Thats going to earn DOTM brownie points in alot of peoples books. A game they can't miss in. Doesn't make it a good game just means the game companies are pandering to masses of spoilt little brats who can't handle losing. Why do you think DOTM suffers from 'host migration'? It's not accidental. It's so those who can't handle losing can quit out and reshuffle the players until they have shed players challenging/beating them ( people like me! ) Like I said its geared towards little kids.
I really wish I could get in contact with someone who was involved with making the ROTF game, I wanna shake their hands! How many employees of Luxoflux were re-employed within Activision? There must be someone out there!

I dont know what i'm talking about, eh...

First to debunk a few of the things your saying.
Host migration is always a good thing. I don't need to explain why, but if you think thats the only reason they have it, your scope of multipalyer gaming is warped.
There isn't any auto-aiming in DOTM or WFC, since I have to carefully aim for headshots. I use multiple guns to master using all of them.
I STILL play wfc as I don't care about leveling up. If more people still play ROTF, its because its a movie game, as most people probably don't even care for anything outside of the movies (i.e. the kids you speak off). Theres a reason why game critics rate the movie games terribly in most cases, and why WFC was one of the few TF games rated much higher. ROTF was something crappy I can't even think of to compare, WFC is similar to Quake and COD and similar to Gears of War by FASTER. Its made for people who can think fast, learn fast, and co-operate as a team to turn the tide.
You speak of having patience to figure out how to make use of all the different characters. Well the very fact that those characters can be so easily and quickly exploited speaks of BAD GAME DESIGN.
WFC (and again, to a lesser extent DOTM, which will be the case from now on) has a much more balanced roster of classes, I have found countless players who like to exploit the sniper... or the tanks beacon>heavygun. But in many of those instances, changing my game style countered their attack successfully.

Your speaking of types of attacks, basically the game tactics. Well for starters, ROTF has you climbing buildings half the time like this is a platformer The action in between driving/climbing around is so brief that your basically alone most of the game not doing anything but searching.

WFC has you shooting in all modes, evading in all modes, picking up other guns, using grenades... ROTF has you driving around with one finger while you jump to climb building after building.
Multiple melee attacks aren't a bad thing, but since you barely even see many enemies close enough to melee with pre-meditated calculation, who cares. Lets just stand on a building and shoot. Atleast your shooting instead of driving around and climbing for ages, before someone just steals your kill anyway. You even get to see where the enemy spawns with those meteor crashes, pft.
WFC is fast paced action, rotf is slow, chance-based combat.
I have played multiple games in DOTM in succession where I ('IIIjono' on 360) stayed at the top of the list with a pretty good K/D, and the players I beat stuck around to keep playing regardless... they even got better as they learnt how I played and teamed up. So much for host migration serving cowards.

Anyway, I really don't care what you play, as long as your having fun, ignorance is bliss.