The Energon Pub

Note the right hand number.

Disclaimer: This image is in no way supposed to force your opinion of the film, but rather disprove the belief that "nobody liked RotF." Started a new thread since the old thread was getting off topic.

Old thread here: bay-admits-rotf-wasn-t-very-good-t74511s0.php

Disclaimer #2: Yes I'm aware of the poor critical review on the left. That's not the point here, since everyone knows critics hate it.

Fan dumb member: That right side number LIES! IT'S ALL LIES! NOBODY liked ROTF.

Thanks for posting this dude! It proves a good point.

There are SOME people who like it. Lol. One of my friends adores the movie... I "like" the film, but only for it's animation. I have to multitask when I have the movie on because the plot (or lack there of) annoys me, but I tend to tune in for the battle scenes and whatnot where the animation is at it's best :3 Scene's might be a little cluttered, but if you've seen it a few times your eyes lock on to where they need to be.

...can't help it. Lol. I studied 3D animation and I'm a fan of Transformers, so put together I'll endure some garbage to enjoy the likable aspects.

Erailea wrote: the plot (or lack there of) annoys me

How in the hell did the plot annoy you? I can see why you wouldn't find it fitting to your intrests, but how does it annoy you? It was Transformers with actual alien theories for Primus's sake, how is that not the best thing ever!?

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but here's a small taste of my "rant" about that film (I say "rant" because if you heard me in person you'd hear the humor about it all).

Cinematography wise (which plays into story in it's own right):

Countless shots that had nothing to do with the plot - ie: the 1st half of the scene where we are re-introduced to Sam. A fair portion of Sam in college (What was the point of having like 10 minutes of him mom being prissy and then high? Gave some people a laugh, but had absolutely nothing to do with the storyline. You can have humor and still follow a plot :/), etc.

Many scenes were CLUTTERED. OMG. Where am I supposed to look in many of those shots? Lol. I even heard that comment from someone who worked on the film, which made it even funnier.

Other stuff / story:

The viewer was lead to believe in the 1st film Bee had his vocal processor fixed by the cube, but they weren't in the 2nd (and don't go jumping in about the comics (and people do that before). When making a film you aren't supposed to rely on the comics to fill in plot holes). Somehow Megatron was more bad-a$s than The Fallen (who killed Optimus? And who got his aft handed to him by Optimus?). Somehow Jetfire's add-ons made OP extremely more powerful than The Fallen, to the point where The Fallen came off as a pansy, even though he was supposed to be some big bad "super boss" (his brother's combined couldn't kill him!)

Somehow Wheelie knew about the ancient language of the Primes, yet neither the Twins or Bee did and they had been alive far longer (which also plays on the fact that Bay never explained why all bots created by the spark were evil and not neutral).

One of the things that bothered me, but it isn't over cataclysmic to the plot, is the original Primes only died 10,000 years ago... which would have made Optimus MUCH younger than 10,000 seeing as no one knew of anything remotely like the dooms-day machine but The Fallen, Jetfire and Megatron (because he was told), which screws up Hasbro's TF folklore/history. And if OP had been alive 10k years ago he (and others) would still know of the warping technology Jetfire and The Fallen use (because they all seemed rather clueless about it in the films since they drive cross-country all the time)

And Bay really screwed up the Egyptian geography... which was rather laughable actually, especially after an Egyptian friend ranted about it.

Erailea wrote:There are SOME people who like it. Lol. One of my friends adores the movie... I "like" the film, but only for it's animation. I have to multitask when I have the movie on because the plot (or lack there of) annoys me, but I tend to tune in for the battle scenes and whatnot where the animation is at it's best :3 Scene's might be a little cluttered, but if you've seen it a few times your eyes lock on to where they need to be.

...can't help it. Lol. I studied 3D animation and I'm a fan of Transformers, so put together I'll endure some garbage to enjoy the likable aspects.

And what we have here, ladies and gents, is a classic example of Goalpost Raising. Essentially, the act of changing the goal of the arguement on your side once faced with defeat. This is a common tactic of those who wish to keep their view the "dominant" view, usually in matters that boil down to personal taste.

The original thread started with statements of "no one liked RotF." After an entire thread of discussion on the matter, I post the pic at the start of this thread. Now Erailea has, in essence, raised the goalpost.

"Sure, people liked it, but only for certian things."

An alternate way of interpreting this post is the line "Some people liked it."

"Some" in this case translates to 2,918,936 people out of 3,840,705. Considering these numbers are only those users who registered on Rotten Tomatoes and already in favor of the film by a factor of 3/1 I'd say the term "some" liked it to be a massive understatement.

Mind you I'm not attacking your opinion of the film. I used your post as an example that understatement and goalpost raising are not valid tactics of conversation. I'm also really getting tired of making disclaimers.

As for the film's plot, if that gets brought up again after this post I'll probably fly into a rant about how there was a plot. Let's not let it come to that.

I love how people take my words OUT of proportion. I wasn't raising any posts, wasn't telling people they're terrible for liking the film, wasn't even trying to change the topic. For christ sake, you're acting like one of the G1-flubs who can't stand people saying counter to G1 being awesome. In this case you're going on about the film. You're the one getting in a huff for me stating an opinion that I clearly said if you knew me in person you'd hear the humor over. I said I liked the film in part, not whole. Not that I hated it either. I will admit I rather missed your sarcasm in the first post, but I hardly attacked anyone over it. I don't care if you like it, good for you, I'm not holding against you.

If we want to talk about people liking bad films all you have to do is look at Twilight and Shrek 4, all films deemed by critics to be god awful, many of the fans said were awful, yet millions of people went to see them anyway. And I don't bash people for liking the Twilight series in book or film even though I absolutely hate the series. So why would I attack people for liking a film in a franchise I actually like? Right now, even though you claim otherwise, I am feeling attacked. You're post is VERY pointed.

And I can tell you, I'd hit a "like" button for ROTF even though I thought it was bad overall because there are parts I thought were done so well I was gaping in amazement. So I hardly ever pay attention to such numbers.

Honestly, why is it so bad that a good number of people enjoyed the film? Every time someone is able to prove that someone actually liked ROTF another has to argue: "Yeah but it's still a bad movie, and you should accept that. Here's why..."

Can people just enjoy a slagging movie without it being a problem?

SlyTF1 wrote:

Erailea wrote: the plot (or lack there of) annoys me

How in the hell did the plot annoy you? I can see why you wouldn't find it fitting to your intrests, but how does it annoy you? It was Transformers with actual alien theories for Primus's sake, how is that not the best thing ever!?

Plot: Boy gets alien symbols embedded in his brain by a piece of alien material. Evil alien robots want the information in brain for their own gain with the expense of life on Earth. Heroic robots are on a mission to stop the evil robots so that life on Earth can survive.

OH MY GOSH THAT'S SO ANNOYING!

Why do people get mad at other people for saying they don't like a film they like? Really. I never said it was bad people liked it -__- I only said that I don't like it and state why because someone asked. Before going in depth I said what I DID like about it, with the notation I thought the story was poorly crafted. That notion has now caused 3 people to jump down my throat when, before had, I hadn't prodded anyone. What is that saying exactly?

I happened to give a somewhat biased statement when I said "some people like it" but I didn't mean it so literally. I know plenty of people like it (I chat online with people enough), bu within my actual crew of fiends I know more people who dislike it than like it. And it has nothing with me jumping on the band wagon either. I have a habit of dissecting films, especially those with heavy animation because it's what I went to school for. I like looking at films and books and discerning why i like or dislike them. I enjoy story writing so I'm always interested in learning (even if its about why I dislike something because I don't do it myself - hence why I read ALL 4 Twilight books and didn't stop at the second when things became took a downward spiral for me). I didn't go to a school where I only learned to move characters around. I learned everything from pre-production through rendering. Can't tell you how many times I had to storyboard my ideas out for animation, which meant crafting a story from scratch. The hardest of which was for thesis when we went under the HEAVY crits of both our peers and the entire faculty (who had worked in the industry for years). I think everyone got at least one "this sucks" comment from the faculty, either about their entire story or a part of it.

I'm not saying that to sound superior, I'm only trying to explain where my view point stems from. You don't have to go to school to understand film or story. If you watch enough movies you start getting an understanding on your own. What do you think some of the great story tellers do? Brad Bird looks at films when he's story-boarding and what not to get ideas. They have even said it's just as important to look at the good stuck (Casa Blanca, etc) as it is to look at the bad because you need both to get a rounded opinion.

Lol and I'd hardly say you're annoyed "rendition" of a plot is how I'd put it. In fact I wouldn't use any part of it if someone asked me to quickly summarize the film. Lol. That made it sound far worse than it is xD

This is how you people make the Mods feel some times.

Let me sum things up for you people.

Some people liked the movie.

Some people didn't like the movie.

Some people liked the movie, but felt it could be better.

At this point in time, aka nearly two years later, I think it's time people accepted that's how things are and just get over it.

Especially the shoving of your opinion down the throats of others. Yeah, we get it, you liked it, hated it, wanted better, whatever. Just accept that others think differently to you and get over it already.

I mean come on, it's only a matter of months until the next movie but I see more people still going on about RotF when they should be getting excited for DotM.

Erailea wrote:Why do people get mad at other people for saying they don't like a film they like? Really. I never said it was bad people liked it -__- I only said that I don't like it and state why because someone asked. Before going in depth I said what I DID like about it, with the notation I thought the story was poorly crafted. That notion has now caused 3 people to jump down my throat when, before had, I hadn't prodded anyone. What is that saying exactly?

I happened to give a somewhat biased statement when I said "some people like it" but I didn't mean it so literally. I know plenty of people like it (I chat online with people enough), bu within my actual crew of fiends I know more people who dislike it than like it.

Lol and I'd hardly say you're annoyed "rendition" of a plot is how I'd put it. In fact I wouldn't use any part of it if someone asked me to quickly summarize the film. Lol. That made it sound far worse than it is xD

Oh...okay. I get you now. But first of all, it's best we all stop the blame game right now before we start turning the gears of readers and turn it into a ten-person gun fight.
I wasn't trying to say "you suck for hating ROTF!" or whatever. I misunderstood you, but you cleared it up here. I do read very logically and literally, so unless there is an indication not to take wording literally, I will read as literally as humanly possible.
You see, when you emphasized the word "some" I took it as you meaning a minority liked the movie and you were trying to say that all those who like it don't matter. It's a "tactic"(?) that is used repeatedly by others.
And I'll admit, the plot is pretty simplistic and cliched. That was truly the best I could do with it. I mean, it was basically TF history repating itself for the twentieth time. However, I liked the way the plot was carried out if that makes sense.
By the way, you seem to be more than intelligent enough not to say anything completely thoughtless now that you clarified. I had a guy go berserk last week after I argued that it wasn't a fact that ROTF is a bad movie.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:I had a guy go berserk last week after I argued that it wasn't a fact that ROTF is a bad movie.

Who is that guy? I wanna kick his @$$.

Burn wrote::BANG_HEAD:

This is how you people make the Mods feel some times.

Let me sum things up for you people.

Some people liked the movie.

Some people didn't like the movie.

Some people liked the movie, but felt it could be better.

At this point in time, aka nearly two years later, I think it's time people accepted that's how things are and just get over it.

Especially the shoving of your opinion down the throats of others. Yeah, we get it, you liked it, hated it, wanted better, whatever. Just accept that others think differently to you and get over it already.

I mean come on, it's only a matter of months until the next movie but I see more people still going on about RotF when they should be getting excited for DotM.

My original post in the thread was a continuation of a previous thread that had gone off topic, not an attempt to shove opinions down anyone's throat.

As for letting it go, sure I'll let it go once the other side does. The recent news post about Bay admitting he could have done better was old news (like months ago old). The fact a moderator made that thread goes to show that the film's detractors are unwilling to let it go, even among those who are supposed to avoid making threads that are basically troll/flame bait threads.

And that's the ultimate problem. Disliking the movie is acceptable, but liking it is met with "let it go already?"

Sorry if I'm getting ranty here. Low on caffiene and sleep make Capt.Failure something something...

SlyTF1 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:I had a guy go berserk last week after I argued that it wasn't a fact that ROTF is a bad movie.

Who is that guy? I wanna kick his @$$.

I can't remember, but I wouldn't give his name anyway knowing you'd probably kill him.
But honestly, I was doing a good job (IMO) being an impartial mediator to some ROTF fight and this guy started making a serious rant that ROTF was in fact a bad movie. I responded that it all just boils down to personal opinions, and we need to respect each others' opinions and move on. His response: "No. It doesn't boil down to opinions. ROTF was a bad movie. Period." if I remember that correctly.

I mean, come on! This is what we've come to? I mean, I've seen people state their opinions as facts before, but this rubbish is getting ridiculous. The slagging thing came out two slagging years ago. It's a slagging movie. Yet, already I'm hearing rants that DOTM will in fact be a bad movie and no one can stop it because Bay's a bad director and is designing horrible characters on purpose to be a rebel because he hates the fans...yadda yadda yadda.
(This is just the toys forum!) And then someone on the other side of the argument starts going on a rampage and then we all find ourselves in the midst of yet ANOTHER movie love vs. movie hate fight.

They're movies, Primusslaggit! It's all so juvenile! Uggh...all of you just listen to what Burn said and you'll be fine. (storms out, slams door, door falls off hinges) Yeah, I'll pay for the damages...

That was probably the absolute most hypocritical thing I have ever said considering my early Seibertron history, but I had to let off some steam.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:I had a guy go berserk last week after I argued that it wasn't a fact that ROTF is a bad movie.

Who is that guy? I wanna kick his @$$.

I can't remember, but I wouldn't give his name anyway knowing you'd probably kill him.
But honestly, I was doing a good job (IMO) being an impartial mediator to some ROTF fight and this guy started making a serious rant that ROTF was in fact a bad movie. I responded that it all just boils down to personal opinions, and we need to respect each others' opinions and move on. His response: "No. It doesn't boil down to opinions. ROTF was a bad movie. Period." if I remember that correctly.

I mean, come on! This is what we've come to? I mean, I've seen people state their opinions as facts before, but this rubbish is getting ridiculous. The slagging thing came out two slagging years ago. It's a slagging movie. Yet, already I'm hearing rants that DOTM will in fact be a bad movie and no one can stop it because Bay's a bad director and is designing horrible characters on purpose to be a rebel because he hates the fans...yadda yadda yadda.
(This is just the toys forum!) And then someone on the other side of the argument starts going on a rampage and then we all find ourselves in the midst of yet ANOTHER movie love vs. movie hate fight.

They're movies, Primusslaggit! It's all so juvenile! Uggh...all of you just listen to what Burn said and you'll be fine. (storms out, slams door, door falls off hinges) Yeah, I'll pay for the damages...

That was probably the absolute most hypocritical thing I have ever said considering my early Seibertron history, but I had to let off some steam.

^--Pretty much this.

Ok, now I feel bad for starting the thread. Frak it, I need coffee. Be back later, gotta get the IV...

Capt.Failure wrote:As for letting it go, sure I'll let it go once the other side does. The recent news post about Bay admitting he could have done better was old news (like months ago old). The fact a moderator made that thread goes to show that the film's detractors are unwilling to let it go, even among those who are supposed to avoid making threads that are basically troll/flame bait threads.

So the news crew were a little slow in getting it posted. It was posted as a news story, not as a threat to troll or flame bait people.

And that's the ultimate problem. Disliking the movie is acceptable, but liking it is met with "let it go already?"

No, everyone needs to let it go. Both sides. That's what I said. I'm tired of these back and forth debates over a movie that's nearly two years old. I'm tired of people being unable to simply accept that someone has an opinion that differs from theirs and that they are therefore wrong.

I'm tired of people simply not being able to respect another's opinion.

So yes, i'd love for everyone to just get over it and move on and get ready for Dark of the Moon. At least then we'll have some all new debates and discussions instead of the same old boring crap we've had to endure for the last nearly two years.

And for the record, what I said was generalised, if people take it personally then that's their problem. I don't have enough time to list every person who needs to learn respect for another's opinion, and to let things go, I don't have that much time to spare.

Oh but most of all, i'm tired of having to do this.

SlyTF1 wrote:Who is that guy? I wanna kick his @$$.

Anger management, seek it now. Because i'm really getting tired of you and your threats of physical violence just because someone thinks differently to you.

Capt.Failure wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:
^--Pretty much this.

Ok, now I feel bad for starting the thread. Frak it, I need coffee. Be back later, gotta get the IV...

Nahh...don't be. I do think you present a good point about the movie haters that cause problems, however, it comes across as you thinking only they have issues at times. I have to agree with Burn's post there, because he's pretty much always right, and I respect him. Yet I know what you mean by your response to him. I don't think you were shoving opinions down anyone's throats, but just presenting facts to prove a point. Unfortunately, I think the three of us originally involved all got mixed up and misunderstood each other and in turn something needed to be said. It was only a matter of misunderstanding; no one was really guilty of anything. Let's move on.
And yes, it is a really big issue that no one is allowed to like the movieverse, but I really have to disagree that "it's ok to dislike it" because really, both sides are at fault. I see it every week. I used to be one of them, but now I see how stupid it is.

By the way Capt., I'm the exact opposite of you right now. I'm running on three cups of tea, a Pepsi Throwback, a Citrus Blast, and two chocolate-covered Oreos! I just feel like going on and on and on and on and on...I'm SO caffeinated right now! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Burn wrote:Big long post by Burn goes here...

Yeah, as I said earlier I'm kinda regretting this thread. Had a bad day when I replied earlier and being sleep/caffiene deprived isn't helping my mood. I think this is the part where I realize I'm becoming what I hate the most (an opinionated jerk) and scream to the heavens "MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE!?"

If it's any consolation I don't think there's a need to regret the thread. You're still relatively new to the posting side of things so I don't know how much of the same argumentative stuff you've read, but it just seems to be the same old argument keeps popping up time and time again and then someone gets their panties in a bunch and they stuff that causes others to get their knickers in a knot ... same old stuff. Don't feel bad about it, I can be old and crotchety at times.

Capt.Failure wrote:

Burn wrote:Big long post by Burn goes here...

Yeah, as I said earlier I'm kinda regretting this thread. Had a bad day when I replied earlier and being sleep/caffiene deprived isn't helping my mood. I think this is the part where I realize I'm becoming what I hate the most (an opinionated jerk) and scream to the heavens "MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE!?"

Silence! Enough!
Get ahold of yourself! We're losing you man! (grabs hold of shoulders and shakes rapidly)
Don't feel so bad. You aren't the one who made the page "A Boycott that is Boycotting the Boycotting of the Movieverse" last year. Worst I've seen so far. Biggest argument I've seen so far in my time on this site. And guess who wrote it?
Really, you are far from posting anything outwardly bad. Maybe just a little too partial, but really, you've contributed a lot to this forum.

Now, that being said, how about we go talk about Dark of the Moon and how excited we are for it?

This is a good idea, OptiMagnus10. Thread title changed.

Anywho, placing bets now that the Ark is also Omega Supreme.

Burn wrote:If it's any consolation I don't think there's a need to regret the thread. You're still relatively new to the posting side of things so I don't know how much of the same argumentative stuff you've read, but it just seems to be the same old argument keeps popping up time and time again and then someone gets their panties in a bunch and they stuff that causes others to get their knickers in a knot ... same old stuff. Don't feel bad about it, I can be old and crotchety at times.

Lol, crotchety.

Burn wrote:If it's any consolation I don't think there's a need to regret the thread. You're still relatively new to the posting side of things so I don't know how much of the same argumentative stuff you've read, but it just seems to be the same old argument keeps popping up time and time again and then someone gets their panties in a bunch and they stuff that causes others to get their knickers in a knot ... same old stuff. Don't feel bad about it, I can be old and crotchety at times.

Hey Burn, did you do something to upset the other mods, and so got relegated to the Movie forum as punishment? You're the only mod I ever see posting here and you sure get the brunt of it all, with people arguing over this pos movie still and this guy and his double talking rants.

You know, we used to have the Philosopher's forum and that got shut down for people arguing more important topics in (most of the time, seemingly) more civilized ways. You people aren't even talking about a movie anymore. You're all just jumping on people for thinking differently. First you don't care about plot so long as there's action, then the plot was the best thing since Anna Karenina, then Bay is your hero, then Bay shouldn't have to answer to anyone but himself, and see, look, even critics like it, and then who cares what the critics say, they're just old and stupid, then you want violence against someone who didn't like the movie but glower at people who said Bay should have been deported for making these films. Seriously, you guys are like a psyche ward spun completely out of control with this bs.

We get it, you know? You like the movie, other people don't, and you still can't handle that somehow. There is a new one coming out soon, you guys do know that, right? How will you react to that? If it's better than ROTF will you all turn into haters of DOTM or will you take your own advice and allow others to like DOTM more than they like ROTF?

Seriously. Just because it's "for kids" doesn't mean you have to be babies all the time. I can't wait for these movies to be over so maybe we can be sane again around here.

Dagon wrote:We get it, you know? You like the movie, other people don't, and you still can't handle that somehow. There is a new one coming out soon, you guys do know that, right? How will you react to that? If it's better than ROTF will you all turn into haters of DOTM or will you take your own advice and allow others to like DOTM more than they like ROTF?

Oh yeah? Tell that to the people who insult whoever does like ROTF! You have the entire freaking situation backwards! DOTM will come out and it will be the greatest movie ever! That doesn't mean I can't say that ROTF is the greatest movie ever until DOTM comes out!

.