The Energon Pub

It's said that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, but surely, something or someone must've created Him. This question has baffled me since I first thought of it. What are your opinions? And please, I don't want any "God doesn't exist" replies. If you are that kind of scientific person, then think of it as, "if an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being existed, what could've created it?"

Obviously, God couldn't have created himself, and there had to be a time when the universe was divoid of matter, so he couldn't have been here from the dawn of the universe. So, what do YOU think?

There does not necessarily have to have been a time when the universe was devoid of matter. It is a possibility that the entire Big Bang/Big Crunch* thing is an endless cycle.



*Assuming, of course, that the Big Rip or something completely different doesn't happen instead.

first of all, god is not a man,it does not need to reproduce therefore has no penis...making it beyond man.

As for where did god come from?
i spend alot of my time searching for the meaning of life.
I have found nothing but speculations and farfecthed religions and beliefs, no one will know anything until they die.

However,I have several theories on GOD,what if at one point god was like us?What if this being and or beings we call god
evolved spititually and mentally to the point of being able to manipulate the elements of existance, ofcoarse that leaves the question open of who created this or these beings?

Frankly, i believe no one on earth knows $#!^ about god, God could be anything, god could have come from anywhere...

God may not have the need to reproduce, but he has before. How about when he made the angels? Demons? Us?

so he used "his" penis?

No. There was no female Godess to proctreate with.

exactly!god doesnt need to have sex!, men want god to be a man, and women want god to be a woman, but god is niether

Bit off topic, don't you think?

A satellite colliding with magic space gas, of course.

Who said "god" wasn't a man or a human for that matter?

Maybe it's a cycle. Something happened in a different galaxy, a carbon based biped evolved and shed off it's mortal coil to become some omnipotent being.

Then went off to another galaxy and created mankind. While it was still learning just what it means to be a god, he destroyed a few places, brought down the plague etc.

What do you beleive was there before the dawn of the universe for god to be created from?
If god was 'created' what would have greated the creator?
Is time linear? Might an all powerful being not be constrained by time and be able to influence the past as we see it?
It all depends on your particular beleifs and rationale of them

Dick wrote:What do you beleive was there before the dawn of the universe for god to be created from?
If god was 'created' what would have greated the creator?
Is time linear? Might an all powerful being not be constrained by time and be able to influence the past as we see it?
It all depends on your particular beleifs and rationale of them

Time as it seems to be is a ratio of change as relative to something else. It isn't so much this linear, all-changing force, but the continuous interaction, manipulation, and deterioration we see around us.

The Avatar of Man wrote:

Dick wrote:What do you beleive was there before the dawn of the universe for god to be created from?
If god was 'created' what would have greated the creator?
Is time linear? Might an all powerful being not be constrained by time and be able to influence the past as we see it?
It all depends on your particular beleifs and rationale of them

Time as it seems to be is a ratio of change as relative to something else. It isn't so much this linear, all-changing force, but the continuous interaction, manipulation, and deterioration we see around us.

That is how we see it yes but would the god in question see it the same way? That is if you beleive god is a conscious entity at all, able to perceive and act.

Dick wrote:

The Avatar of Man wrote:

Dick wrote:What do you beleive was there before the dawn of the universe for god to be created from?
If god was 'created' what would have greated the creator?
Is time linear? Might an all powerful being not be constrained by time and be able to influence the past as we see it?
It all depends on your particular beleifs and rationale of them

Time as it seems to be is a ratio of change as relative to something else. It isn't so much this linear, all-changing force, but the continuous interaction, manipulation, and deterioration we see around us.

That is how we see it yes but would the god in question see it the same way? That is if you beleive god is a conscious entity at all, able to perceive and act.

Time is our description of how this universe changes. To say a god is outside of time is to say it is outside of our universe and thus unaffected by it (but can somehow affect it ironically), but we cannot really conclude if there is anything outside of what we call the 'universe' at all.

What exactly are we discussing again?

The Avatar of Man wrote:

Dick wrote:

The Avatar of Man wrote:

Dick wrote:What do you beleive was there before the dawn of the universe for god to be created from?
If god was 'created' what would have greated the creator?
Is time linear? Might an all powerful being not be constrained by time and be able to influence the past as we see it?
It all depends on your particular beleifs and rationale of them

Time as it seems to be is a ratio of change as relative to something else. It isn't so much this linear, all-changing force, but the continuous interaction, manipulation, and deterioration we see around us.

That is how we see it yes but would the god in question see it the same way? That is if you beleive god is a conscious entity at all, able to perceive and act.

Time is our description of how this universe changes. To say a god is outside of time is to say it is outside of our universe and thus unaffected by it (but can somehow affect it ironically), but we cannot really conclude if there is anything outside of what we call the 'universe' at all.

That's my point. Does whoever asked the question beleive god to be an old man with a long white beard sitting on a cloud watching him as he goes about his daily business or does he beleive god to be everywhere, everywhen, able to interact with the past, present and future on Earth and at the far reaches of the universe and beyond? If it's the latter who says that god had to have been created before the beginning? Could it not be feasable that the beginning of our universe/plain of existence was created before god was [in our perception of time] but it was able to influence our universe from it's point in it's own plain of existence?

Salazaar wrote:God may not have the need to reproduce, but he has before. How about when he made the angels? Demons? Us?

And one more: Jesus.

But back to the topic at hand: What if we're looking at it wrong? What if God didn't create man, what if Man created God?

Look at the Shinto Religion. State religion of Japan up until about WWII. Two people, Izanagi and Izaname, were the First Man and First Woman. Oh, that sounds mighty familiar. In any case, during their crazy run, they created the Kami. ("God" or "Gods," plural is the same as singular)

Man, religion and mythology is fun. I started this post about a half an hour ago. I got tied up in Norse, then when I went into Hinduism (Which might be my next Mythological Love) I got too interested.

I can't believe my fav subforum has nothing to do with transformers!

Now that you think of it, if God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, it would be impossible for him to have a creator.

god was created out of the necessity of the human mind to create reason behind his own existence and it's general trait anthropomophise.

it is impossible for an omnipotent being to be created by another omnipotent being as both being would be omnipotent and thus contradict(similair to the immovable object, and irresitable force contradicitio), unless of course the creator of God become non omnipotent in the process of making god omnipotent, or if the creator of god was not omnipotent at any point.

Tammuz wrote:it is impossible for an omnipotent being to be created by another omnipotent being as both being would be omnipotent and thus contradict(similair to the immovable object, and irresitable force contradicitio), unless of course the creator of God become non omnipotent in the process of making god omnipotent, or if the creator of god was not omnipotent at any point.

it's really not that hard to follow

if 2 being s are omnipotent then one(being A) can control all aspects of the other(being B), if the aspects of Bing B aren't in complete control of being B, then being B isn't omnipotent as he lacks the complete control over something(his own aspects).

I get it now. Maybe God gave up his "omnipotentness" when he made us, and made humanity omnipotent? Maybe we haven't discovered out power as a race yet. We're all a bunch of selfish bastards. .....

Salazaar wrote:I get it now. Maybe God gave up his "omnipotentness" when he made us, and made humanity omnipotent? Maybe we haven't discovered out power as a race yet.

that's actually quite an old argument against god's omnipotence, as long as we have some freewill(or total control of our fate; heaven vs hell etc) god doesn't.

Salazaar wrote:We're all a bunch of selfish bastards. .....

defiently but i don't really see what that has do with gods omnipotence.

the "selfish bastards" was kind of a nod to another thread. All deeds committed by man, good or bad, have been in search for self-satisfaction.

Salazaar wrote:the "selfish bastards" was kind of a nod to another thread. All deeds committed by man, good or bad, have been in search for self-satisfaction.

But that's all there is and all there ever will be in terms of our performing actions. Best to realize you always do things because you want to do it, and not demonize for illogical reasons.

Tammuz wrote:it's really not that hard to follow

if 2 being s are omnipotent then one(being A) can control all aspects of the other(being B), if the aspects of Bing B aren't in complete control of being B, then being B isn't omnipotent as he lacks the complete control over something(his own aspects).

Perhaps they just don't control the aspects of the others. It's against their moral code or something.

As for the whole God creator debate:

Who says God is the only one of his kind? Perhaps God is just a young kid, and we are his playthings. Bad things happen to us for the same reason kids fry anthills with a magnifying glass. They get a kick out of the torment.

So who created God?

Dad and Mum God.